Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 45

[cahn]

Unfortunately, there was then at Berlin a King who pursued one policy only, who deceived his enemies, but not his servants, and who lied without scruple, but never without necessity.

(from The King's Secret - by Duke de Broglie, grand-nephew of the subject of the book, Comte de Broglie, and grandfather of the physicist) )

Comments

Re: Podewils' "FS: Hot or not?" Report

[selenak]

At the very least, I think it's probably an accurate depiction of how FS came across to the general Viennese public (who would have been Podewils' likely sources, since he wasn't able to get close to top level people) in 1747, with some framing for Fritz' benefit. Like the biographers, I am amused by the "he even has the patience to sit through entire German comedies when German comedies are clearly only for the rabble and not for people with taste!" Similarly, the combination of "he's got a beautiful face" with the "but many people think it's a common one!" could be due to being written to a man who did not have a beautiful face according to even the most flattering descriptions (though his eyes are always praised and he's always described as compelling). Now honestly I don't think Fritz was vain in that regard or would have minded if Podewils had not added "but in a common way!" to "Beautiful" - his vanity was for other eras -, but I can see a professional diplomat and courtier rather erring on the side of caution.

It's also interesting that while FS is depicted as a lazybones and a henpecked husband, this is still by and large a positive-minded depiction of him as a person. Even in the mid- 18th century, being described as kind, witty and wishing for harmony between people aren't negatives. Now if you want an actually negative description of FS, check out the French envoy from the humiliation conga years from after the marriage and before Joseph's birth. The French envoy is basically "only MT likes him, everyone else looks down on him, what a loser!" with a lot of Schadenfreude and the subtext that a popular FS would be a very worrying prospect to Versailles since they're afraid he might want his duchy back. Again, it's not that either envoy makes stuff up wholesale - before Joseph's birth, FS was very unpopular, though for no faults of his own, simply for xenophobic reasons, and Podewils probably did hear stories in Vienna of how FS was nice and all but MT was wearing the pants in that relationship and was the true government. But if I had to guess, Podewils knows he's writing for a monarch who doesn't have anything against FS as a person (just against FS's wife as his arch enemy) as long as he knows he's the superior man.

Re: Podewils' "FS: Hot or not?" Report

[mildred_of_midgard]

"he even has the patience to sit through entire German comedies when German comedies are clearly only for the rabble and not for people with taste!"

And like me! I was amused when I read that in Hennings. And of course I immediately had flashbacks to Christmas 1732 and salon's respective fics on the subject. :D

Podewils knows he's writing for a monarch who doesn't have anything against FS as a person

May I remind cahn of the Salmon of Eternal Friendship (conveyed through Suhm), that when Crown Prince Fritz and FS met in the 1730s they really hit it off, and Fritz thought FS was a great raconteur, and that they were both very surprised at each other's behavior in 1740-1741.

Re: Podewils' "FS: Hot or not?" Report

[cahn]

And of course I immediately had flashbacks to Christmas 1732 and salon's respective fics on the subject. :D

:D me too! in my head Fredersdorf liked it!

haha, I did remember the Salmon of Eternal Friendship!