cahn | Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 41

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Now, thanks to interesting podcasts, including characters from German history as a whole and also Byzantine history! (More on this later.)

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From:

selenak

To quote Wiki on the the procedure of Arsenic poisoning:

Symptoms of arsenic poisoning begin with headaches, confusion, severe diarrhea, and drowsiness. As the poisoning develops, convulsions and changes in fingernail pigmentation called leukonychia striata (Mees's lines, or Aldrich-Mees's lines) may occur. When the poisoning becomes acute, symptoms may include diarrhea, vomiting, vomiting blood, blood in the urine, cramping muscles, hair loss, stomach pain, and more convulsions. The organs of the body that are usually affected by arsenic poisoning are the lungs, skin, kidneys, and liver. The final result of arsenic poisoning is coma and death.

Arsenic is related to heart disease[ (hypertension-related cardiovascular disease), cancer, stroke(cerebrovascular diseases), chronic lower respiratory diseases, impaired lung function, compromised immune response to H1N1 (swine) flu (a respiratory virus infection and diabetes.Skin effects can include skin cancer in the long term, but often prior to skin cancer are different skin lesions. Other effects may include darkening of skin and thickening of skin.

Chronic exposure to arsenic is related to vitamin A deficiency, which is related to heart disease and night blindness. The acute minimal lethal dose of arsenic in adults is estimated to be 70 to 200 mg or 1 mg/kg/day.

The reason why Arsenic was and is, as far as mysteries are concerned at least, a popular poison is that all these symptoms can be explained naturally, that it doesn't work instantly, and that thus, the poisoner is in the clear if they do it in order to inherit, like the Marquise de Brinvilliers. (One reason why Sophie of Hannover nicknamed it "Inheritance Powder" in her letter.) Whereas Digitalis would have been available if you knew apothocaries or knew your herbs, but it does work really fast, and thus there's no way of disguising what you did.

Have you ever read Flowers in the Attic? Because long time use of Arsenic is a key plot point there. In the Angelique novels, our heroine's first husband, Joffrey, who is among other things a genius level scientist, has her consume a tiny dose of Arsenic on a regular leve, as he does himself, in order to immunize herself against being poisoned. It does save her life later on. But you really have to get the dose right to use it like that. (I think. I'm anything but a scientist.)

From:

felis

long time use of Arsenic is a key plot point there. In the Angelique novels, our heroine's first husband, Joffrey, who is among other things a genius level scientist, has her consume a tiny dose of Arsenic on a regular leve, as he does himself, in order to immunize herself against being poisoned. It does save her life later on. But you really have to get the dose right to use it like that. (I think. I'm anything but a scientist.)

See also: Strong Poison by Dorothy Sayers! The bad guy takes small doses over a long time so that he can eat the same meal as his victim later on (the question of when the poison was administered and who did it being the key question in the case). The immunization does apparently work, but you can still expect some bad consequences for your health after a while, see this interesting blog post about the book and about arsenic poisoning in general by Deborah Blum, who wrote a whole book about poisons. /tangent

From:

cahn

That's such an interesting blog post, thank you for linking it! It's fascinating that having a reliable test for arsenic was so important -- of course that makes total sense, but I had never thought about it. And also interesting that Sayers and presumably Golon knew the idea of the poison immunization, but not the further/later research that it would probably not be very good for you!

From:

selenak

On a more cheerful note, I was now able to crosscheck Horowski's book re: Madame de Monaco/both Madames. Horowski is 100% certain Minette/Monaco was real. He doesn't provide a footnote or a quote, but he has read way more about the court of Louis XIV than I have, so I trust him on this. Otoh, he does provide the Liselotte quote re: the failed pass Madame de Monaco made at her.

Horowski: It was observedhow (Madame de Monaco) approached the new Madame with the same tender gestures she had used on the first one, but aside from a few excited incognito walks through Paris, this didn't go anywhere. Much later, as an old woman, Madame herself describes it to an interested niece thusly: "It's true that Madame de Monaco loved women. She would have liked to introduce me to this, but she didn't win me over, which grieved her so much that she cried."

Alas, the Princess of Monaco was permanently damaged by a botched blood letting in 1772, her health got increasingly worse from 1775, which made courtiers suspect anything from STD to poison (by her husband), and she died in 1778 at age 39. But if the her/Minette affair was real, at least we can say Minette had some enjoyable hours in between marital warfare with Monsieur.

From:

cahn

...okay this is amazing, thank you for looking this up! :D

"It's true that Madame de Monaco loved women. She would have liked to introduce me to this, but she didn't win me over, which grieved her so much that she cried."

LOLOLOLOL I love this.

I love even more the idea that Monaco/Minette might have been real <3

Ugh for blood letting! I am now imagining using this hypothetical time machine to go around and yell at people not to get bled!