cahn | 18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 38

Gonna go ahead and make this post even though Yuletide is coming...

But in the meantime, there has been some fic in the fandom posted!

Holding His Space (2503 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF, 18th Century CE Frederician RPF
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings
Relationships: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf/Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Characters: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Additional Tags: Protectiveness, Domestic, Character Study
Summary:

Five times Fredersdorf has to stay behind - and one time Friedrich doesn't leave.

Using People (3392 words) by prinzsorgenfrei
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great/Hans Hermann von Katte
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Hans Hermann von Katte
Additional Tags: Fluff, Idiots in Love, reading plays aloud while gazing into each others eyes
Summary:

Friedrich had started to talk to him because he had thought of him as a bit of a ditz.
And now here he was. Here he was months later, bundled up in this very same man’s blankets with a cup of hot coffee in front of him, its scent mixing with that of Katte’s French perfume.
_
Fluffy One Shot about one traitorous Crown Prince and the sycophant he accidentally fell for.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

selenak

With some more skipping of royal declarations, I was able to finish. You also can tell that after 1731, Fassmann is reporting hearsay again, but he's thorough, I'll give him that - he evidently uses the Berlin newspaper which Martin Sabrow also used for his Gundling biography for its various announcements about the royal family and about famous visitors. This is useful when FS visits in time to attend Fritz' engagement party, because Fassmann bothers to write down every single official engagement FS had during the three weeks he spent at the Prussian court, so if anyone ever wants to write Murder At the Wusterhausen Express with FS as Poirot, there's some good material there. Interestingly, when trying to explain why there's so much fuss about the young Duke of Lorraine, Fassmann does NOT mention "most likely future husband of MT, and thus future Emperor", he says it's because FS is related to FW via Lieselotte. (As in, Liselotte was FS' grandmother, and niece to FW's grandmother Sophie of Hannover.) I'm reminded of Stratemann mentioning FS prefered sitting at the kids' table during the festivities, and hey, who wouldn't, with FW and SD as the alternative? But Fassmann doesn't mention it, because he wasn't there, he's going by newspaper reports.

Also, unless I skipped it, which is possible, he doesn't explain why he left FW. (Stratemann, otoh, in his envoy reports explains it completely.) He's ultra discreet about that one. He defends FW's recruitment practices by royal prerogative and that the population owes it to its sovereign like it owes taxes, and no one is better to his soldiers and more careful with their lives than FW. And all other kings also draft and gangpress, without being as careful with their soldiers, so there! And Prussian soldiers learn how to have an excellent character, be clean, be god fearing and obedient, not like those evil whoring soldiers elsewhere.

Fassmann is your source for the royal pages: "There are several royal pages, as far as I recall, there are sixteen of them. These are directed by their Hofmeister and live all together at the royal palace. They are taught in all necessessary sciences, have a red uniform, and show up two times a day, always paired up, at the royal palace for their service, where they are directed towards their stations. These are all youngsters between 12 and 16 years of age. Additionally, his Royal Majesty has those pages who are always serving him and are always with him. These are somewhat stronger and more grown up than the other pages, approximately between 18 and 20 years of age, and if they behave well, they get promoted to Lieutenants thereafter."

He's also the source for the pages and the royal kids getting plenty of food. Not the exotic expensive stuff like when F1 was king, but good, season appropriate food, with lots of meat and meat soups for the royal kids! So there, doubters.

FW, model husband, faithful alone among kings, also would never allow rude speech in front of his darling wife, best and most loving of queens. Now it's not like Fassmann doesn't include stories which are less than complimentary to FW, but not in a knowing way, I don't think. For example, like Morgenstern he has the bit where FW makes the Jews of Berlin buy the boars he's hunted, ha ha ha. (Ugh, FW. And Ugh, Fassmann.) Also, FW so can be merciful! Why, there was this husband who killed his slut of a wife, and he'd have gotten the death penalty for that, but when FW heard what a slut the wife was, he pardoned the guy!

Then there's this: In the year 1728, there were six young bears at Wusterhausen. These walked around on their hind feet, and in order to make them adjust better to this, their forefeet were bound together on their backs. Moreover, all their teeth had been knocked out in order to prevent any accidents. Now, when I had been called (to Wusterhausen) in the autumn of that year, I had no idea about these animals (....) But when one evening I was in the room where his Royal Majesty used to hold court and was one of the last to leave, I suddenly was surrounded by all these little black men when I crossed the courtyard in order to get to my quarters. This confused me at first, and I didn't know what to think until I realised these weren't little devils but young bears.

Two thoughts:

a) These aren't necessarily the same bears Gundling had to cope with, since the Gundling incident happened a decade earlier, I think, but I bet those bears were treated the same way. (Which would explain how Gundling survived being locked in a room with young bears and firecrackers to frighten them.)

b) Poor bears. Teeth knocked out, forelegs tied to the back? Ugh.

When Fassmann, near the end, lists all the members of the royal family, you can tell he likes Charlotte and Friederike Louise best of all the girls, because they get more than a page each, where Wilhelmine gets just a few lines saying she's a very virtuous and god fearing (!) model of a wife now. Fritz, future King, is now a wonderful person and all the world has only good things to expect from his reign. Heinrich he hasn't seen since Heinrich was five, but he thinks this is a smart kid who would make a good future Dompropst and theologian.

FW, model father:
His Majesty could enjoy himself thoroughly when taking the young prince (AW) by his hand at Wusterhausen or in Potsdam or in their rooms and debated with him. In the evening, when the princes had to be brought to bed, he first came to his Majesty in order to wish him a good night, kissed the King's hand and said: "Good night, dearest Papa!" Then the King's Majesty kept holding his hands a good while longer, asked various questions, lifted him upwards and kissed him. But when his Royal Highness Prince Heinrich had grown a bit (from being a baby), His Royal Highness August Wilhelm had to share the post of a royal Mignon with the later. Both royal brothers got drilled as soldiers sometimes in his Royal Majesty's evenings societies by an officer in 1731, and both proved themselves able to do these exercises which of course they loved doing. They showed themselves very spirited for as long as they were allowed to remain in the evening get together, which usually lasted until they were called to the table by the King's Majesty. Now when his Royal Highness Prince Friedrich Heinrich was five years old, it happened that during his spirited and energetic jumping around his sword got between his legs, so the little boy fell down. This frightened his Royal Majesty, so he pretended to be angry and demanded the sword back from the Prince, had it taken away from him while pretending the Prince was now under arrest. Oh, that resulted in the boy crying and lamenting! The Prince kissed the King's hand and asked to be pardoned, and said: "Oh, dearest Papa! I will not do it again!" But that didn't help, the Prince had to go, and go the most Serene Lady Mother (which was his arrest), and did not get the sword returned to him until Her Majesty the Queen pretended to have asked for him to be pardoned.

Okay. Bear in mind: this is 1731. Fritz is still in Küstrin. I don't know how much Heinrich at age 5 comprehended from all that had been going on, but since he was a bright kid, the basic "Oldest Brother got arrested" principle might have sunk down. And FW pretends to have him put under arrest, and makes him go through asking for a pardon, like Big Brother had done for real that same year? L'autre moi-meme indeed.

There's also a lot about FW's good deeds for the Salzburg Protestants (giving them a new home), founding the famous Charité hospital, founding orphan houses and schools etc., all of which he did do, but good lord, this is in general a white washing/spin-meister job of the first order. I suspect Fassmann after a few years in the wilderness was short of cash and toyed with the idea of going back in the hope of getting rehired?

ETA: Lastly: Fassmann early on mentions FW being fluent in French from childhood onwards (true) and later insisting on only talking German to his children (also true and often testified) in order to make them love the language.

Now remember which language FW's children used near exclusively when grown up, and also (most of) their religious commitment in adulthood.

Fontane, when commenting on Heinrich's pretending to have forgotten his German in his old age: "One is tempted to call this the logical consequence of a childhood where German was rammed down one's throat."

Edited Date: 2022-11-17 04:09 pm (UTC)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

This is useful when FS visits in time to attend Fritz' engagement party, because Fassmann bothers to write down every single official engagement FS had during the three weeks he spent at the Prussian court, so if anyone ever wants to write Murder At the Wusterhausen Express with FS as Poirot, there's some good material there.

Ooh, nice! Page numbers? I have actually considered writing this fic.

And all other kings also draft and gangpress, without being as careful with their soldiers, so there!

I mean, this is true! Fritz would later draft and gangpress with the express intention of getting cannon fodder for his high-casualty battles, especially with desertion rates so high! And don't even get me started on the British.

Still not cool (moment of silence for the shepherd). Also, less importantly but hilariously, I think FW started more international incidents with his neighbors over his recruiting practices than anyone else. :P

Why, there was this husband who killed his slut of a wife, and he'd have gotten the death penalty for that, but when FW heard what a slut the wife was, he pardoned the guy!

...

For all Fritz's misogyny, his willingness to let the woman cheat as long as the man cheats first is a breath of relatively fresh air. (Misogyny still not cool, Fritz.)

Also, FASSMANN. I know you are a product of your time BUT STILL. Some people managed to be LESS AWFUL.

(Which would explain how Gundling survived being locked in a room with young bears and firecrackers to frighten them.)

Yep, makes a lot of sense.

b) Poor bears. Teeth knocked out, forelegs tied to the back? Ugh.

Yeah. Poor bears. :/

since he was a bright kid, the basic "Oldest Brother got arrested" principle might have sunk down. And FW pretends to have him put under arrest, and makes him go through asking for a pardon, like Big Brother had done for real that same year? L'autre moi-meme indeed.

ZOMG. I knew you would find all the best anecdotes here! I was not expecting a faux arrest from Heinrich's childhood while Fritz was in arrest himself. Yeah, that must have been stressful, and wow. One could work that into a fanfic. ;)

Now remember which language FW's children used near exclusively when grown up, and also (most of) their religious commitment in adulthood.

Yep, and their great interest in forbidden philosophy. FW really knew how to make his kids love things, didn't he.

"One is tempted to call this the logical consequence of a childhood where German was rammed down one's throat."

Yep! As I've recounted, I had the same violently allergic reaction to unsuccessful attempts to ram Spanish down my throat as a child.

Thank you for reading this so we didn't have to! (What a find re Heinrich's faux arrest, too.)

From:

selenak

Page numbers? I have actually considered writing this fic.

FS shows up on page 426. (BTW, FS' schedule includes dining chez Grumbkow. This made me conclude Seckendorff must have informed the Imperial court that Grumbkow had the best cook in Berlin.) (Reminder: after Grumbkow's death in 1739, SD writes to Fritz that she made FW hire Grumbkow's cook, and "since then, we dine better".)

I was not expecting a faux arrest from Heinrich's childhood while Fritz was in arrest himself.

Me neither. I mean, I was familiar with part of that story, not from Ziebura, but from that dissertation about Heinrich as a military leader which I read a year or so ago; early on when summing up his pre 7 Years War life, the author did include a story about how he stumbled over his sword as a child and how FW therefore sent him back to his mother. But without Fassmann's phrasing, there is no indication this was played out as a faux arrest/pardon seeking. Again, 5 years old kids might have a short memory, but if as we suspect Heinrich was the original source for Catt's version of FW's August 1730 homecoming (children, urged by SD plead, FW shouts, children hide, Heinrich specifically hides under the table (which makes us think he's the one narrating the story) and he can remember this stuff in 1758, he sure as hell could in 1731.

BTW, something else I was also familiar with from the dissertation is Fassmann claiming when Heinrich got out of the baby stage he shared the favourite position with AW, because Morgenstern - who only joined the court in 1736, i.e. when Ferdinand was a year older than Heinrich was in 1731 which was Fassmann's cut-off - says the exact same thing about Ferdinand, leading me to the conclusion that second favourite was always the youngest boy once he's past the toddler stage but before the point where he starts to have opinions.

From:

cahn

He's also the source for the pages and the royal kids getting plenty of food. Not the exotic expensive stuff like when F1 was king, but good, season appropriate food, with lots of meat and meat soups for the royal kids! So there, doubters.

Uhhhh. Okay.

Also, FW so can be merciful! Why, there was this husband who killed his slut of a wife, and he'd have gotten the death penalty for that, but when FW heard what a slut the wife was, he pardoned the guy!

Argh, FW! And Fassmann!

(Which would explain how Gundling survived being locked in a room with young bears and firecrackers to frighten them.)

...I never thought to wonder about that! But okay, yeah!

b) Poor bears. Teeth knocked out, forelegs tied to the back? Ugh.

THIS WAS MY REACTION

Okay. Bear in mind: this is 1731. Fritz is still in Küstrin

oh. OH. OMG. Poor Heinrich! (and poor Fritz, of course!)

Fontane, when commenting on Heinrich's pretending to have forgotten his German in his old age: "One is tempted to call this the logical consequence of a childhood where German was rammed down one's throat."

...yeah, fair.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

(Which would explain how Gundling survived being locked in a room with young bears and firecrackers to frighten them.)

...I never thought to wonder about that! But okay, yeah!

I wondered about that from the beginning! Possibly because I used to sit next to a coworker who was obsessed with bears and bear maulings, so my first thought whenever Gundling or someone has an encounter with a bear is "Why aren't you dead?"

No teeth and front legs tied would do it, poor bears.

oh. OH. OMG. Poor Heinrich! (and poor Fritz, of course!)

Right? RIGHT?!