18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 38

[cahn]

Gonna go ahead and make this post even though Yuletide is coming...

But in the meantime, there has been some fic in the fandom posted!

Holding His Space (2503 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF, 18th Century CE Frederician RPF
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings
Relationships: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf/Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Characters: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Additional Tags: Protectiveness, Domestic, Character Study
Summary:

Five times Fredersdorf has to stay behind - and one time Friedrich doesn't leave.

Using People (3392 words) by prinzsorgenfrei
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great/Hans Hermann von Katte
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Hans Hermann von Katte
Additional Tags: Fluff, Idiots in Love, reading plays aloud while gazing into each others eyes
Summary:

Friedrich had started to talk to him because he had thought of him as a bit of a ditz.
And now here he was. Here he was months later, bundled up in this very same man’s blankets with a cup of hot coffee in front of him, its scent mixing with that of Katte’s French perfume.
_
Fluffy One Shot about one traitorous Crown Prince and the sycophant he accidentally fell for.

Comments

Re: Saxony and the War of the Austrian Succession

[mildred_of_midgard]

Having thought about this some more...

If it's early 1741 and MT has just signed over Silesia to Fritz in return for protection, Saxony is thinking, "On the one hand, she's an easy target," but "On the other hand, she now has a powerful ally."

I'm pretty sure Saxony's not going to get the recognition they need for their claims either to the bulk of the Habsburg lands or to the emperorship, which reduces the benefits in this cost-benefit analysis.

What they're likely to realistically get is a *share* of the Habsburg lands, if they join a coalition to divvy said lands up. But of all the parties in the coalition, Saxony stands to lose the most, since they're wedged in between Prussia and Austria. Fritz is not realistically invading France tomorrow, nor Spain nor even Bavaria.

So that leads us to your second point: "Fritz won't care as long as he has Silesia?" That's the point on which I felt strongly that the real-life considerations are still at play here in this AU with an OOC MT: Prussia and Saxony have been in a zero-sum power game since the end of the 17th century. Saxony's number one goal is not "share of Habsburg lands" but "part of Silesia," and their number two goal is "If we can't have Silesia, at least don't let Prussia get Silesia," and number three goal is "Don't let Prussia have a land bridge through Poland to join up Brandenburg with Prussia proper." And Prussia's interests in that part of Europe are exactly reversed.

For all August the Strong's and FW's drinking clubs, there were always political tensions, and their countries were always seen in some respects as natural rivals. And this isn't even August the Strong and FW any more, this is Fritz and Brühl. So I don't think there's any scenario in which Saxony believes it can invade MT with impunity from Fritz. They have to know that Fritz's incentives here are:

1. Keep Saxony down.
2. Make at least a nominal effort in the direction of defending MT from *someone*, otherwise the treaty granting him Silesia is invalid. He can make a lukewarm effort, he can sign a separate peace early, he can be duplicitous, but he has to at least make an early appearance of attacking *someone*.
3. Win everlasting fame and glory in battle, especially if Silesia was so easy it makes him feel unstoppable, and also like defeating a woman wasn't anything to write home about.
4. Saxony is right next door, and of all MT's enemies, the easiest to accomplish (2) and (3) on.

IRL, Fritz was willing to agree to Saxony (and Bavaria and France and Spain) partitioning Habsburg domains as long as he needed the alliance, because MT wasn't letting him have Silesia. With Silesia, Macaulay's quip is highly accurate, and the Saxons have to know that or at least fear it, given where they live.

But. I thought of a way this could play out!

In this scenario where MT is handing out territory in return for protection, she's going to get the exact same offer from Saxony that she got in real life: "Give us a land bridge through Silesia, linking Saxony and Poland, and we'll help protect you." She came pretty close to doing it in real life, the treaty was definitely signed. And she hedged it all around with conditions like, "You can have right of passage during August's lifetime [I think], but I still own it," etc.

Earlier in this conversation, you may remember I pointed this out, put up a map, and said she's going to have a hard time satisfying both Prussian and Saxon demands here.

While out for a walk today, I realized I wasn't thinking Machiavellian-ly enough. She doesn't *need* to satisfy both their demands. It's in her best interests not to, in fact.

So if MT wanted to sacrifice some territory in return for protection, she could maybe play for time by granting August and Fritz rights and territory in Silesia that brought them into conflict with each other ("You can have Silesia, but you have to let August march through it whenever he wants and not charge tolls," maybe?), while insisting that they have to help her fight off the rest of her enemies.

I agree it's not great PR, but if OOC MT plays her cards right, she might either get:

a) Limited help with fighting off Bavaria and France, from two allies that have no interest in seeing Bavaria or France become more powerful, while those two allies fight each other,

or

b) No help with fighting off Bavaria and France, at which point she can declare the treaties invalid and go back to fighting openly for Silesia.

She's still better off doing what she did, for the reasons you pointed out. But aiming to play Prussia and Saxony, with their opposing geopolitical interests, off against each other would at least have been interesting for a salon to learn about in the future!