cahn

Gonna go ahead and make this post even though Yuletide is coming...

But in the meantime, there has been some fic in the fandom posted!

Holding His Space (2503 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF, 18th Century CE Frederician RPF
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings
Relationships: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf/Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Characters: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Additional Tags: Protectiveness, Domestic, Character Study
Summary:

Five times Fredersdorf has to stay behind - and one time Friedrich doesn't leave.

Using People (3392 words) by prinzsorgenfrei
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great/Hans Hermann von Katte
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Hans Hermann von Katte
Additional Tags: Fluff, Idiots in Love, reading plays aloud while gazing into each others eyes
Summary:

Friedrich had started to talk to him because he had thought of him as a bit of a ditz.
And now here he was. Here he was months later, bundled up in this very same man’s blankets with a cup of hot coffee in front of him, its scent mixing with that of Katte’s French perfume.
_
Fluffy One Shot about one traitorous Crown Prince and the sycophant he accidentally fell for.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

mildred_of_midgard

From Tamussino's bio of Isabella, the parts after the marriage. Thankfully, all of the high points were in Stollberg-Rilinger, where Selena already summarized them for us, so I am spared trying to do a summary and can just share some tidbits.

* Tamussino says that although it has caught on to refer to MT's favorite daughter who was the object of Isabella's affections as "Maria Christina" or "Marie Christine", she was never actually called that. The family called her "die Marie", Khevenhüller "our Frau Maria", FS sometimes called her „Madame Mimi", Maria Theresia "Mimi" or "Mimerl", even when she was long since grown up, and in Leopold's "state of the family" essay in 1778, where he hates on her, she's "die Maria".

* Props to Tamussino for being aware that baby Joseph wasn't there at the Hungarian assembly.

* In the middle of the Seven Years' War, when Joseph and Isabella are getting married to cement the French-Austrian alliance, a celebratory poem is written that begins, "Other nations wage war, you, happy Austria, marry." Comments Tamuissino: "The author couldn't resist the traditional 'bella gerant alii,' and left out the fact that Austria at the time was entangled in a bloody war of high losses."

* Isabella/MC: the "no homo" takes! This was delightful.

One historian claims MC was heartbroken over a failed romance, and Isabella was engaging in roleplay to cheer her up, pretending to be alternately madly in love and devastatingly heartbroken and distant after a fight. It was all RPG!

Another says the two women spent so much time talking about each other's bodies because, as women, they spent hours together in front of the mirror getting dressed and undressed. It was all innocent sisterly stuff!

Tamussino: ASIDE from the censored passages, this claim ignores the fact that 1) their apartments were several rooms apart, 2) they had maids to do their dressing and undressing. "Life at the Hofburg and Schönbrunn wasn't exactly like in 'Figaro.'"

(Mildred: I have not seen Figaro, but lol.)

* A very endearing letter from Isabella to MC:

The chambermaid came in just now, and I thought she was you. Probably a sign how constantly I'm occupied with you, since the resemblance doesn't seem to me to be very great. We won't have any repetition, since I don't want to get heated up.

* Tamussino points out something I hadn't thought of: Isabella was the granddaughter of mentally ill Philip V "the Frog" and niece of the mentally ill uncle Ferdinand VI she almost married. Meaning her suicidal depression may have had an inherited component. Her grandfather Louis XV was also subject to depressive episodes, although not as over the top as the Spanish branch.

* Obligatory Mozart anecdote:

On October 13, 1762, Leopold Mozart was a guest at Schönbrunn with his children and reported to Lorenz Hagenauer in Salzburg:

"Now there's only enough time to say that we have been received by their Majesties so extraordinarily graciously that if I recount it, it will be considered fabulous. Enough! Wolferl jumped onto the empress's lap, hugged her neck and rightly kissed her. In short, we stayed with her from 3 to 6 o'clock, and the emperor himself came out into the other room to take me in, to hear the Infanta play the violin."

Regrettably, Leopold Mozart withheld from us his expert judgment on the violin playing of the "Infantin", i.e. Isabella – how interesting it would have been!

* Tamussino calls the separate interment of the organs, practiced by the Habsburgs, "barbaric" and says that Isabella's smallpox at least spared her that. Strong feelings!

* Tamussino is absolutely sure that Pichler is wrong about MC showing Isabella's letters to Joseph. One, she would never have betrayed Isabella like that, two, she wouldn't have been capable of inflicting that kind of cruelty on Joseph, three, she would have been incriminating herself as well.

Plus, earlier in the book, Tamussino cites another Pichler anecdote about Isabella that is factually false--it involves Isabella visiting her mother's tomb, but her mother died in France while Isabella was in Parma, and Isabella never got to see it. Pichler is therefore totally unreliable, says Tamussino, and not to be trusted.

Also, Pichler is the only source for that anecdote, which is one of the things I wanted to know when I bought this book.

* It seems that after Isabella's death, MC asked her mother for all the letters she (MC) had written to Isabella, and destroyed them, but MC hung onto everything she had that Isabella had written, and carried them around with her her whole life, no matter where she was living. </3

From:

selenak

Props to Tamussino for being aware that baby Joseph wasn't there at the Hungarian assembly.

Not everyone falls for a good Voltaire story, clearly.:)

It was all RPG!

LOL. Well, in a world where Fritz has "fatherly" concerns for two years older Fredersdorf...

"Life at the Hofburg and Schönbrunn wasn't exactly like in 'Figaro.'"

(Mildred: I have not seen Figaro, but lol.)

Presumably she was thinking of these shenanigans between the Countess, Susanna and Cherubino.

Tamussino points out something I hadn't thought of: Isabella was the granddaughter of mentally ill Philip V "the Frog" and niece of the mentally ill uncle Ferdinand VI she almost married. Meaning her suicidal depression may have had an inherited component. Her grandfather Louis XV was also subject to depressive episodes, although not as over the top as the Spanish branch.

Anyone with such a lot of Bourbon and some Habsburg genes (let's not forget the Louis XIV married his first cousin twice over and reproduced with her) has a dicy genetic lottery, that's true enough.

Huh, I was familiar with that Mozart anecdote and in fact quoted it in a recent post, but it hadn't occured to me that Leopold doesn't say anything about whether or not Isabella was good, mediocre or bad on the violin. Perhaps he wanted to be discreet in case his letters were read by people not his friend? Also, the Amadeus version of Joseph wistfully remembering that first encounter with child!Mozart (and young Wolferl's proposal to sister Marie Antoinette) gains another layer if you imagine he was also recalling this as a happy occasion for Isabella to show off her own musical skills.

Tamussino is absolutely sure that Pichler is wrong about MC showing Isabella's letters to Joseph. One, she would never have betrayed Isabella like that, two, she wouldn't have been capable of inflicting that kind of cruelty on Joseph, three, she would have been incriminating herself as well.

These were the reasons why I was sceptical of the story when it showed up in Nancy Goldstone's book unsourced (not to mention the Don Giovanni = Joseph book), but once we had tracked it down to Pichler, whose mother had been a lady-in-waiting to MT, I thought it was at least possible. However, if Tamussino found no other second source, it's questionable again. Now, to play devil's advocate, she wouldn't have been capable of inflicting that kind of cruelty on Joseph is debatable since this was the time when MC and Leopold exchanged very Joseph critical letters as they were both pissed off with him for different reasons (for MC as I recall mainly his interference in Belgium/Austrian Netherlands). But otoh, these these MC - Leopold letters as quoted by Joseph's biographers also emphasize them being discreet and indeed afraid anyone would rat them out to Joseph. As long as Joseph was alive and Emperor, MC was to a degree dependent on him, so in her own best interests, showing him Isabella's letters complete with "she never loved you, she loved me!" would have been a very stupid and counterproductive move.

It seems that after Isabella's death, MC asked her mother for all the letters she (MC) had written to Isabella, and destroyed them, but MC hung onto everything she had that Isabella had written, and carried them around with her her whole life, no matter where she was living.

Awww. I do remember MT as the one who had Isabella's letters searched and the Mimi ones confiscated, but I hadn't known this had been on MC's request.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Anyone with such a lot of Bourbon and some Habsburg genes (let's not forget the Louis XIV married his first cousin twice over and reproduced with her) has a dicy genetic lottery, that's true enough.

Or that Isabella's parents, Louise-Elisabeth and Don Philip, were first cousins once removed. And they wanted to marry her to her (half-)uncle!

Huh, I was familiar with that Mozart anecdote and in fact quoted it in a recent post, but it hadn't occured to me that Leopold doesn't say anything about whether or not Isabella was good, mediocre or bad on the violin.

Yeah, I recognized the anecdote from you, but didn't remember Isabella's playing, nor, like you, had I considered that there was a missed opportunity for commentary!

Perhaps he wanted to be discreet in case his letters were read by people not his friend?

Perhaps, or perhaps it's like he said, he was pressed for time, and he felt if he started getting into detail then he wouldn't be able to stop. (Ahem, I know the feeling.)

Awww. I do remember MT as the one who had Isabella's letters searched and the Mimi ones confiscated, but I hadn't known this had been on MC's request.

Well, we don't *know* it, but it's Tamussino's guess. In fact, I put it a little too strongly: I wrote "it seems" thinking that it was the author's deduction, but upon rereading, it was just her speculation. So...MC *may have* been the one who requested her own letters back (a not uncommon thing for people to do when someone dies).

We do know MC carried all the Isabella papers in her possession around all her life, though. (At least if I'm remembering correctly, but I think so.)

From:

cahn

Presumably she was thinking of these shenanigans between the Countess, Susanna and Cherubino.

Hee, that's what I was thinking about!

Huh, I was familiar with that Mozart anecdote and in fact quoted it in a recent post, but it hadn't occured to me that Leopold doesn't say anything about whether or not Isabella was good, mediocre or bad on the violin. Perhaps he wanted to be discreet in case his letters were read by people not his friend?

Heh. I have a theory, which is that Isabella was either fine or mediocre, but not particularly good. Because if she were very good, that would have been noteworthy (pun totally intended) and worth pointing out, whereas I find it totally believable that a musician writing a letter to a friend just wouldn't find it worth pointing out that an Infanta wasn't a child prodigy. (If she were very bad, as opposed to mediocre, I might think also that it would be pointed out.)

From:

cahn

a celebratory poem is written that begins, "Other nations wage war, you, happy Austria, marry." Comments Tamuissino: "The author couldn't resist the traditional 'bella gerant alii,' and left out the fact that Austria at the time was entangled in a bloody war of high losses."

Hee!

One historian claims MC was heartbroken over a failed romance, and Isabella was engaging in roleplay to cheer her up, pretending to be alternately madly in love and devastatingly heartbroken and distant after a fight. It was all RPG!

RPG! That is... a take. Yeah.

Another says the two women spent so much time talking about each other's bodies because, as women, they spent hours together in front of the mirror getting dressed and undressed. It was all innocent sisterly stuff!

UHHHHH. I mean... I have a sister. I guess we did not spend hours getting dressed and undressed, but still... no.

The chambermaid came in just now, and I thought she was you. Probably a sign how constantly I'm occupied with you, since the resemblance doesn't seem to me to be very great. We won't have any repetition, since I don't want to get heated up.

Aw, that is endearing!

* Tamussino calls the separate interment of the organs, practiced by the Habsburgs, "barbaric" and says that Isabella's smallpox at least spared her that. Strong feelings!

Huh! I thought it was weird but I guess my feelings weren't quite that strong!

* Tamussino is absolutely sure that Pichler is wrong about MC showing Isabella's letters to Joseph. One, she would never have betrayed Isabella like that, two, she wouldn't have been capable of inflicting that kind of cruelty on Joseph, three, she would have been incriminating herself as well.
Also, Pichler is the only source for that anecdote, which is one of the things I wanted to know when I bought this book.

Okay WELL. I DO have strong feelings about this!

* It seems that after Isabella's death, MC asked her mother for all the letters she (MC) had written to Isabella, and destroyed them, but MC hung onto everything she had that Isabella had written, and carried them around with her her whole life, no matter where she was living.

Ohhhhh :(((( <3