cahn

Starting a couple of comments earlier than usual to mention there are a couple of new salon fics! These probably both need canon knowledge.

felis ficlets on siblings!

Siblings (541 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 2/2
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Summary:

Three Fills for the 2022 Three Sentence Ficathon.

Chapter One: Protective Action / Babysitting at Rheinsberg (Frederick/Fredersdorf, William+Henry+Ferdinand)
Chapter Two: Here Be Lions (Wilhelmine)

Unsent Letters fic by me:

Letters for a Dead King (1981 words) by raspberryhunter
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen (1726-1802)
Characters: Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Additional Tags: Epistolary, Love/Hate, Talking To Dead People, Canonical Character Death, Dysfunctional Family
Summary:

Just because one's king and brother is dead doesn't mean one has to stop writing to him.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

selenak

Then there’s this gossipy tale which somehow all the fictionalizers of Catherine the Great’s life seem to have missed out on:

At the 5th, I return, have lunch in Angerburg with the Archpriest and in the evening arrive at home. Here, the sudden death of Countess Moltke, the mother of the Duke of Holstein, is confirmed to me. This woman has finished her life at the age of 48 years. She could have been the happiest of woman, but through her conduct she has drawn countless misfortunes and universal contempt at herself. She had a very eventful life. Born the daughter of Count zu Dohna, the Queen’s Oberhofmeister, and of a Princess of Holstein-Beck, she was her family’s idol. Her mother, two princesses of Holstein who were her aints, and an old Duke of Holstein all competed in spoiling her rotten. At the age of 15, she already ruled her family completely and chose a husband for herself whom no one else liked. Thus, she was quickly married to her cousin, a young Prince of Holstein, Major in a Silesian regiment. Now she followed her moods and her passions. Of course she wasn’t lacking in admirers. One talks of a Herr v. Flörke and of General Rebentisch. Her husband died in one of the earliest battles of the 7 Years War. Then she returned to her family in Prussia, but kept up her previous conduct. When near the end of the war Peter III. ascended the Russian throne, he ordered anything named Holstein to Russia for love of his family. She was included in that number. Soon, the Emperor distinguished her more than any oft he others, and gave her a pension, estates and a lot of diamonds. People even claim that he had been so much in love with her that he wanted to marry her and had the intention to banish the Empress who is today the pride of Europe. She then acted with a wisdom she otherwise never showed. She refused all the suggestions by the Emperor and doubled her attentiveness towards the Empress. The later would not forget this. After the great revolution which brought Catherine on the throne and her husband into his grave, (the Countess) was left enjoying all her pensions, and she even was supposed to remain at court. The King of Poland - that’s Poniatowski, Catherine’s ex, remember - told me a few years ago that the Empress had intended to marry him to her cousin. But the later loved her freedom more than anything and asked the Empress to permit her to sell the estates the Emperor had given her in order to return to Prussia. So she arrived with the order of St. Catherine, countless diamonds and riches. If she had only enjoyed her happiness in an orderly fashion, she could have become the toast of Königsberg and of the entire province, where the name of Holstein is known and respected. By the Prince of Holstein, she had had a son, a charming child, whose guardian she became and whose fortune she wasted. Her entire being was only mood and passion. First she wanted to marry a Count Knorr, then she fell in love with a Herr v. Negelein, and finally she married a young Lieutenant v. Moltke, whom she had made into a Count. Now she couldn’t stay in Prussia anymore, so she went to Mecklenburg and bought herself an estate there. There, she regretted her foolishness a thousand times and now suddenly died, leaving several children from her second marriage behind.
What distinguishes her son, the Duke of Holstein, ist hat he has never failed to honor this mother who has harmed him in so many ways, and to oblige her whenever he could.
There was a time when I met her quite often, since we are related. She was a dazzling figure, could be quite charming and told intriguing stories of her Russian adventures. She was with Peter III. when he received the message about the Revolution. It was at a party in Peterhof, where the Emperor was surrounded by many ladies. He then entreated them to get on a boat with him and to go to Kronstadt. This was his misfortune. The ladies started to cry and to shout, and that slowed down his decisiveness. As is known he was brought to Oranienbaum instead, and was only seen in the tomb by the public again. The poor Princess of Holstein had been dumped in the garden and had to remain there for the entire night. She told me that all her aquaintances who came by and who the day before had shown her the greatest respect now pretended not to know her and did not listen to her. She was wearing courtly wardrobe and nearly died of fear and of the cold, until the Empress heard about her awful situation and ordered her sent to her father-in-law in St. Petersburg, to the Duke of Holstein who was then governor of Reveal.

1.) Wasn’t Peter’s official mistress a Russian lady?
2.) Methinks Lehndorff should have checked for other sources.

By now, we’re in the summer of 1786, and Fritz is dying. As early as January, Lehndorff is sure he will this time - for that matter, that was Heinrich’s impression as well, I think – and every news from Berlin seems to confirm it. In July, Lehndorff notes:

The King, who is still very weak, has ordered the famous Dr. Zimmermann from Hanover to come to him. One fears in every moment for the life of this great man. The judgments on him vary greatly. I am happy to note down while he’s still alive what is surely going to said once he’s dead: his little weaknesses will be forgotten, and one will only admire him as a great man. My judgment is all the more impartial since I never received the slightest benevolence from him. On the contrary, he often put obstructions in my path. But that was due to his character, and didn’t come from his heart. Firmness is part of his nature. When I entered the wide world, he at first showed himself gracious towards me and offered me the position of Chamberlain of the Queen, despite my being only 19 years of age. I first refused, for I could already see the entire hollowness of such a position. But he replied to me: „Just take the position on a preliminary basis until I can give you one in my direct surroundings.“ So this was his intention. But then distrust and jealousy appeared. I was young, excitable, didn’t have the slightest experience, but did have a loving heart and attached myself to his brothers, the Prince of Prussia and Prince Heinrich. This displeased the King. Additionally there were the evil minded schemers, headed by the arch villain Pöllnitz, who couldn’t stand the King to have a good opinion of me and slandered me to him in an outrageous fashion. He believed them, and from this point onwards he made me feel without mercy, as is his way, his displeasure about the fact I was able to form attachments to people other than himself. He did say repeatedly: „Lehndorff did not want to belong to me.“
Those who were serving him directly will not mourn him as much as the many living under his rule. The former often had to suffer due to his excentric nature, to which belonged the fact he could immediately forget all the greatest services at the slightest failure. The others, whose numbers are far larger, didn’t have to bear the injustices of the rich and mighty, since anyone could address themselves directly to him and trust in finding justice from him. He definitely improved the situation of the people and has spent large summs on the provinces. Only for (East) Prussia, he never cared. He couldn’t forgive it for having become Russian. And yet Prussia had proven the greatest devotion during the Russian occupation.
Returning to the men around him, I can declare that I have seen most of them either leave in bitterness or die. The harsh upbringing he was subjected to was most to blame for this. It is really the case that he never asked his companions, once they were in good quarters, whether they were lacking something; on the contrary, if he could spoil their good mood, he did. He couldn’t stand it if those who were with him at Potsdam went to Berlin. I remember that the famous Baron Bielfeld who had business to conduct in Berlin but didn’t dare to tell this to the King wrote to his Majesty that he was suffering from terrible toothache and thus had to go to Berlin in order to have a tooth removed. Then, the King told him that he’d order the dentist to Potsdam. This really happened, and the poor man had to have a completely healthy tooth pulled in order not to be exposed as a liar.

Okay, that’s worth chewing on. I mean, partly Lehndorff, forty years later, is definitely doing that thing you often do with such a long distance and rewriting history, because I don’t recall any mention of Pöllnitz scheming against him back in the day, and Lehndorff mentions Pöllnitz a lot, and also I doubt anyone saw Lehndorff as enough of a threat to badmouth him to Fritz, full stop. Did Fritz see Lehndorff’s attachment to his brothers as a minus? Undoubtedly. Was this the reason why he never promoted him? I doubt it. I think he was grateful to have filled the position, whatever he may or may not have said when hiring Lehndorff, and did not intend to bother with hiring someone else.

While it’s not true Fritz didn’t enquire after anyone’s health or comfort once he had them – ask Fredersdorf! -, overall, leaving Lehndorff’s personal „I could have been a contender, err, Fritz courtier“ rewriting aside, it’s pretty fair judgment, and he even correctly blames FW’s parenting.

Fritz is still alive when Lehndorff meets Heinrich’s 7 Years War diary writing AD, Henckel von Donnersmark, and does some projecting, methinks, though otoh he’s probably not wrong:

The conversation with Henckel is a great pleasure. He has lived forty years in the same company I did. We both belonged to the circle of the Prince of Prussia and Prince Heinrich without interruptions. But he always felt very miserably. He descended from noble, high minded but penniless parents, and was angry at his fate, and became sulking and jealous. I don’t believe he’s had a truly happy hour in his life. Despite having advanced to Generalmajor, he still calls his fate unjust. He wants to become Field Marshall. He complaints about Prince Heinrich despite all the good the later has done for him. He wanted to be the sole favourite. He was pushed out of this position with the Prince by Herr von Kalckreuth. Now he married a rich burgher’s daughter from Halberstadt, a Fräulein Weckerhagen. But she died before her parents did, and thus his expectations were ruined. That made him bitter; moreover, the two daughters from this marriage caused him much grief. His second wife is a Countess Lepel, his own niece, whom he believed to be rich, which she wasn’t. Thus he feels entitled to curse at his fate. And yet with a content temper, he could be very happy, since he otherwise has many good qualities, does his military service with great eagerness, and is universally regarded as one of the best officers in the army. At the moment, he’s fretting with worry about what will happen to him once the King is dead.

His Majesty is verey weak, and if the reports from Potsdam are true, he won’t remain alive much longer. Dr. Zimmermann supposedly told him simply that it was too late and there were no means for him. This naturally did not satisfy his Majesty, who gave him 2000 Taler and sent him away. Then, a doctor from Halberstadt named Fritsch was called. But one fears it’s too late, the dropsy takes ist course.

And then he dies. Lehndorff, who hears about it via mail and talk, has this version of events:
The departed has concluded his days with the dignity of a Seneca. At the 14th, things were bad with him already; he was lying in a daze. Sometimes he regained consciousness, and then he occupied himself with state business as in his best days. He was so swollen up that he couldn’t get out of his trousers anymore, or lie in his bed. He remained in his armchar and gave his orders with the usual circumspection, while being surrounded by the same people as always. He only allowed himself to be served by his hussar who replaced a valet with him. At the 16th around 5 pm he regained consciousness and immediately ordered his letters and orders brought to him in order to sign them. Sometimes he let the quill drop and said then: „It doesn’t work anymore.“ Still, he picked it up again and signed some more. When the quill dropped out of his hand agian and his servant told him there were only three letters left, he pulled himself together and signed them. Immediately afterwards a stroke came, and a second attack took him on the 17th around 4 am.

Edited Date: 2022-07-11 06:06 pm (UTC)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

somehow all the fictionalizers of Catherine the Great’s life seem to have missed out on:

Wow. That is all I have to say. Wow.

1.) Wasn’t Peter’s official mistress a Russian lady?
2.) Methinks Lehndorff should have checked for other sources.

Yes to both. Elizaveta Vorontsova, sister of Catherine's BFF the princess Dashkova.

He did say repeatedly: „Lehndorff did not want to belong to me.“

I mean, Lehndorff did wear his heart on his sleeve! But yes, I agree, that was probably not the main reason. Although it would not have endeared him to Fritz.

ask Fredersdorf!

Hee! Don't forget to leave a fire burning and don't open the window when Fritz rides by!

it’s pretty fair judgment, and he even correctly blames FW’s parenting.

Yeah, that was impressive!

He wanted to be the sole favourite. He was pushed out of this position with the Prince by Herr von Kalckreuth. Now he married a rich burgher’s daughter from Halberstadt, a Fräulein Weckerhagen. But she died before her parents did, and thus his expectations were ruined. That made him bitter; moreover, the two daughters from this marriage caused him much grief. His second wife is a Countess Lepel, his own niece, whom he believed to be rich, which she wasn’t. Thus he feels entitled to curse at his fate.

Hmm, yeah, I see what you mean about the projecting!

At the 16th around 5 pm he regained consciousness and immediately ordered his letters and orders brought to him in order to sign them. Sometimes he let the quill drop and said then: „It doesn’t work anymore.“ Still, he picked it up again and signed some more. When the quill dropped out of his hand agian and his servant told him there were only three letters left, he pulled himself together and signed them.

Aww, Fritz. This is not a version I'd heard before. <3

a second attack took him on the 17th around 4 am.

cahn, as the editor notes, it was 2:20 am.

From:

selenak

Wow. That is all I have to say. Wow.

You're good with genealogies, can you tell me who this lady, daughter of of a Count Dohna and a princess of Holstein-Beck, wife of a Duke of Holstein and then Countess Moltke is supposed to be?

I mean, Lehndorff did wear his heart on his sleeve! But yes, I agree, that was probably not the main reason. Although it would not have endeared him to Fritz.

Thinking this through from all angles, I suppose one could make a case based on Henri de Catt's description of Fritz going on about he would have totally reconciled with AW if not for those evil people around AW riling him up against Fritz and keeping him from apologizing. I mean, there's the problem of that scene in Catt's memoirs not corresponding to the diary entry about AW's death as Koser has pointed out, but that doesn't have to mean Fritz didn't go on about those evil people around AW on other occasions and de Catt was simply backdating and collecting later conversations. And as we said at the time, blaming evil schemers was a way for Fritz to avoid self blame after AW's death (conventiently ignoring the letters he wrote to and about AW in the year between Bautzen and AW's death). I could see him deciding Lehndorff was one of those people, since Lehndorff was one of the few who consitently visited AW in the last months of his life and was a long term pal of Heinrich's. This would also fit with the fact that we have a diary entry from shortly after the 7 Years War where he's told Fritz doesn't want him to hang out with future FW2.

BUT - all this is long after Fritz has already made it clear Lehndorff won't get any other job than EC's chamberlain (and has refused to let him go to England with Hotham Jr.). So even if we assume Fritz decided that Lehndorff was one of those friends of AW's whom he's ~~scapegoating~~ blaming for the fact AW never reconciled with him, that doesn't work as an explanation for his earlier ignoring Lehndorff's patent desire for a job change. Which I really believe is mostly because the other chamberlain, Müller, was an unreliable gambler, and Fritz didn't want to be bothered with having to look for another official to serve his wife again, plus anyone who thought brother Heinrich was the bee's knees clearly had it coming.

What I'm also baffled by is that Old Lehndorff suddenly has decided Pöllnitz had it in for him. Because as I said, it's not like we're lacking on diary entries by younger Lehndorff mentioning Pöllnitz. He often rolls his eyes about Pöllnitz' personal hygiene (or lack of same) and self importance (like Pöllnitz appointing himself Amalie's chamberlain just because she lets him ride in her carriage when the court is evacuating), but he also says Pöllnitz is entertaining and listens to his anecdotes, occasionally asks him for them. And there is never any hostility like there is whenever he talks of a Katte or one of Heinrich's boyfriends. So where is "Pöllnitz was my enemy and slandered me to Fritz?" coming from?

Hmm, yeah, I see what you mean about the projecting!

I mean, when you read Henckel's war time journal it's patently obvious he's ragingly jealous of Kalckreuth, but Ziebura doesn't think he was in love with Heinrich the way Lehndorff was, and at any rate however much Henckel in later life was inclined to bicker re: Heinrich, he did make him the guardian of his children and entrusted all that was important to him to Heinrich in his last will.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

You're good with genealogies, can you tell me who this lady, daughter of of a Count Dohna and a princess of Holstein-Beck, wife of a Duke of Holstein and then Countess Moltke is supposed to be?

Naturally! I had already looked her up. Russian wiki has a few extra minor details, but nothing about Peter III!

(Holding off on the rest for now, but very much enjoying this.)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Which I really believe is mostly because the other chamberlain, Müller, was an unreliable gambler, and Fritz didn't want to be bothered with having to look for another official to serve his wife again, plus anyone who thought brother Heinrich was the bee's knees clearly had it coming.

This all makes a lot of sense to me!

So where is "Pöllnitz was my enemy and slandered me to Fritz?" coming from?

That's a very good question. I recently read an entry where he disses Pöllnitz, saying he wasted his youth chasing frivolities, and that if you don't learn how to develop your mind when you're young, you're not able to do it when you're older, but that's not personal enmity, no.

From:

cahn

1.) Wasn’t Peter’s official mistress a Russian lady?
2.) Methinks Lehndorff should have checked for other sources.

Hey, I knew this because of *mumble mumble never was able to pick that up* :D (The miniseries calls her Liza, I imagine to give her a distinguishable name.) Lehndorff does add in a "people claim" :D I have no trouble believing that people claimed that -- I was going to say that it is weird that they would do that with an actual mistress around, but I feel like people will gossip about anything... *ducks* *at least I just gossip about the 18th century* *actually I guess I mostly just make people gossip to me*

I am happy to note down while he’s still alive what is surely going to said once he’s dead: his little weaknesses will be forgotten, and one will only admire him as a great man.

Aw. This part at least is pretty accurate! And, like you said, he even blames FW <3

He wanted to be the sole favourite. He was pushed out of this position with the Prince by Herr von Kalckreuth.

Heh, I see what you mean about projecting. Though I also see what you mean about how he's probably not wrong. (aw Henckel, you've given me a soft spot for him)

At the 16th around 5 pm he regained consciousness and immediately ordered his letters and orders brought to him in order to sign them. Sometimes he let the quill drop and said then: „It doesn’t work anymore.“ Still, he picked it up again and signed some more. When the quill dropped out of his hand agian and his servant told him there were only three letters left, he pulled himself together and signed them.

This is heartbreaking, especially given mildred's reminder in another comment of FW's parenting. Fritz. Dude. It's really OK if you don't sign them all! :(

Edited Date: 2022-07-16 09:37 pm (UTC)