18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 36

[cahn]

Starting a couple of comments earlier than usual to mention there are a couple of new salon fics! These probably both need canon knowledge.

felis ficlets on siblings!

Siblings (541 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 2/2
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Summary:

Three Fills for the 2022 Three Sentence Ficathon.

Chapter One: Protective Action / Babysitting at Rheinsberg (Frederick/Fredersdorf, William+Henry+Ferdinand)
Chapter Two: Here Be Lions (Wilhelmine)

Unsent Letters fic by me:

Letters for a Dead King (1981 words) by raspberryhunter
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen (1726-1802)
Characters: Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Additional Tags: Epistolary, Love/Hate, Talking To Dead People, Canonical Character Death, Dysfunctional Family
Summary:

Just because one's king and brother is dead doesn't mean one has to stop writing to him.

Comments

Hervey medical woes

[mildred_of_midgard]

I discovered recently that Lord Hervey wrote a 25-page summary of his physical health, his symptoms, the treatments that he thought did and didn't work for him, what he did to try to stay healthy, etc. for his children. His hope was that it would be useful to them in dealing with any hereditary illnesses. It's interesting reading, depending on your tolerance for what we would consider medical TMI.

As the editor says, it's pretty hard to tell what conditions he had and what were symptoms of 18th century "medical" treatments.

He probably had gallstones, severe enough that he would be curled up and screaming in uncontrollable pain. Maybe epilepsy. I'm thinking migraines, given that he had headaches that were so bad he had to be in the dark and not eat anything for 24 hours.

In his inevitable Hervey style, he makes this observation on gout:

Of most, and the worst of these complaints, I think the genteel world have the noble advantage to boast the monopoly ; for though here and there a man of mean extraction may have raised him self into a great fortune and the gout, yet as this distemper is a badge of gentility, that like an oak has not time to come to its perfection during the life of those who plant it, so wherever this curse of God punishes the sins of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generation, it is generally more severe and begins earlier than in the lives of those whose own luxury (that is gluttony and laziness) first contract it.

A thorough cripple can always trace his gentility as far backward as the Teutonic Order, or a Knight of Malta; and my own mother, whom I look upon as the vehicle of all the ills I ever complained of, could, I believe, quarter the gout upon her pedigree, by the assistance of Howards and Feltons, through at least twenty yards of parchment.

He then goes on to say, though, that he himself never suffered from gout. Which, if you read on, starts to make sense. He believes in a very meat-light diet, and overconsumption of meat (and alcohol) is a major trigger for gout! And his fellow nobles and royals, who were eating meat whenever they could get it, were largely all suffering from gout. I don't know if it's statistically significant that the born wealthy got it younger, but I believe it, because they would have been able to afford vast quantities of meat from a younger age.

He also doesn't believe in sugar, and has another great quote:

If the patrons of sugar say, then, you may take it in less quantities, I shall readily agree that that will make it less hurtful, but I believe they would be extremely puzzled to prescribe the quantity in which it would prove beneficial.

He is, however, wrong about other things. He avoided fruits and vegetables because within a few hours of eating, it caused "phlegm" in his stomach. I strongly suspect that just means his digestion wasn't used to that much fiber, so he got gassy and bloated as his gut bacteria tried to cope. If he had stuck with eating the fruits and vegetables for a couple weeks, it might have sorted itself out! (Though I may be wrong, as he says asparagus was the exception, and I wouldn't expect that to be an exception.)

He was also wrong about mercury. He didn't take it to the point of salivation, but enough to get other mercury poisoning symptoms.

It increased the giddiness in my head, weakened my nerves, and gave me tremblings, cold sweats, and vapours. I do not mean by this to decry mercury; it is one of the best medicines in all the dispensary and one of the few among the many drugs and slops with which an apothecary’s shop is stuffed that deserves the name of a medicine. It has been beneficial in many cases besides that for which it is a specific, and has mended many constitutions, though it did not happen to agree with mine. In rheumatic complaints it often relieves.

Oh, Hervey, you were so close to realizing you'd been poisoned. Alas.

Anyway, if anyone wants more detail, it's in the restricted section, in the appendix to the unabridged memoirs.

Re: Hervey medical woes

[selenak]

A thorough cripple can always trace his gentility as far backward as the Teutonic Order, or a Knight of Malta; and my own mother, whom I look upon as the vehicle of all the ills I ever complained of, could, I believe, quarter the gout upon her pedigree, by the assistance of Howards and Feltons, through at least twenty yards of parchment.

Hervey snark is always tremendously entertaining. I would say "his poor mother", except that his mother was of the offspring-cursing Caroline and FW ilk and said far worse things about him long before this, so you can't blame him for the sentiment.

I don't know if it's statistically significant that the born wealthy got it younger, but I believe it, because they would have been able to afford vast quantities of meat from a younger age.

Good point. I know it was inherited in the older Medici line, and that both Lorenzo il Magnifico and his father Piero the Gouty got it incredibly early (and eventually died of it, so to speak).

Mercury poisoning: I can't remember, when did people finally figure out this was a thing and that you really should not use mercury for anything other than a thermometer?

Re: Hervey medical woes

[mildred_of_midgard]

Mercury poisoning: I can't remember, when did people finally figure out this was a thing and that you really should not use mercury for anything other than a thermometer?

Surprisingly late! Doctors were still prescribing it in the 1920s, and even after they stopped advising ingesting it, my mother, a schoolchild in the 1960s, was being given mercury to handle with her bare hands in science class. I can't blame Hervey for not picking up on the fact that he was poisoned--the erroneous belief in mercury well outlasted the practice of bleeding, which tapered off in the 19th century.

Re: Hervey medical woes

[cahn]

oh hey it's Christmas

My high school chemistry teacher also talked about being given mercury to handle with her bare hands in college! I believe that would also have been in the 1960's.

But at least Hervey realized it wasn't good for him, even though he didn't realize the "this is a poison for everybody" part!

Re: Hervey medical woes

[mildred_of_midgard]

But at least Hervey realized it wasn't good for him, even though he didn't realize the "this is a poison for everybody" part!

Yes, that's good! But since he was writing advice to his children, advising them that mercury is an A+ drug was...argh, you were so close, Hervey! At least maybe he predisposed them to think of mercury as something that *might* disagree with them, and thus perhaps they would be inclined to stop ingesting it sooner, once they noticed the symptoms.

Unlike poor Fredersdorf

Re: Hervey medical woes

[cahn]

A thorough cripple can always trace his gentility as far backward as the Teutonic Order, or a Knight of Malta; and my own mother, whom I look upon as the vehicle of all the ills I ever complained of, could, I believe, quarter the gout upon her pedigree, by the assistance of Howards and Feltons, through at least twenty yards of parchment.

Wow, Hervey is indeed thoroughly entertaining. I do note what selenak says about his perhaps-not-so-poor mom, though.