18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 36

[cahn]

Starting a couple of comments earlier than usual to mention there are a couple of new salon fics! These probably both need canon knowledge.

felis ficlets on siblings!

Siblings (541 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 2/2
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Summary:

Three Fills for the 2022 Three Sentence Ficathon.

Chapter One: Protective Action / Babysitting at Rheinsberg (Frederick/Fredersdorf, William+Henry+Ferdinand)
Chapter Two: Here Be Lions (Wilhelmine)

Unsent Letters fic by me:

Letters for a Dead King (1981 words) by raspberryhunter
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen (1726-1802)
Characters: Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Additional Tags: Epistolary, Love/Hate, Talking To Dead People, Canonical Character Death, Dysfunctional Family
Summary:

Just because one's king and brother is dead doesn't mean one has to stop writing to him.

Comments

Re: Mary Ann Costello

[mildred_of_midgard]

all the German sources quoting Guy Dickens on the Hohenzollern family had left me with the idea he was called, well, first name Guy, last name Dickens. He was not. He was, in fact, (Lt. Col.) Melchior Guy-Dickens.

I was going to talk about that! I also thought that, but I was also confused, because I've seen it written Guy-Dickens, Guydickens, and even Guydikkens (in German). (I read more diplomatic history than you do. ;))

Then this book called his daughter Mary Guy-Dickens, which made it clear it was a family name!

he married a Huguenot lady

I was going to say, there are a lot of Huguenots in England and Ireland in this story, which reminded me of how surprised we were that the Huguenot Society of Ireland and England published the Deschamps memoirs, and were so confident of their audience's French that they didn't even bother translating. You and I agreed we hadn't realized so many Huguenots went to the British Isles, and this book made me go, "There they are!"

apparantly marrying your sister in law would have been illegal in 18th century GB

Per Wikipedia, the Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act of 1907 made one kind of sister-in-law marriage legal, and the Deceased Brother's Widow's Marriage Act the other kind in 1921.

But also per wiki, you could kind of get away with it before 1835, as "a marriage within the prohibited degrees was not absolutely void but it was voidable at the suit of any interested party."

discovers she actually has a talent for management.

This is really cool! Especially since she continued acting despite not being a natural at it.

Around this time, Mary Ann reads Mary Wollstonecraft's "Vindication of the Rights of Women" and goes THIS THIS THIS!!!! in her letters about it.

THIS! Yes, that was neat to see her reacting to a more famous woman of the period, and how much Wollstonecraft's work (I should really reread it, it's been too long) resonated.

"he should have been her son and defender, not her judge!" Hint, hint.

Hee!

Like parents with less dramatic background, she chided him on his rare visits if he didn't stay long but was in ecstasies if he prolonged a visit without any prompting

Uh, yep, that sounds familiar.

She did not have to prostitute herself. She did not want to be anyone's servant (hence her refusal to become a governess or companion once her first husband had died), and she never did.

In a set of bad options (I'm sure she would have preferred a non-acting career), I'm glad she was able to stay true to her priorities, at least. 

Would she have traded with Emma Hamilton, who had both an affectionate marriage (Sir William) and a great requited passion (Nelson), not to mention the social climb from zero to envoy's wife, friend of a Queen, but also had the complete fall, loneliness and self destructive death in alcoholic exile? I don't think so.

Yeah, that makes sense, and is really interesting, because Emma's the obvious comparison here.

Thanks for this write-up!

Re: Mary Ann Costello

[selenak]

Guy-Dickens: it's a good thing we haven't used him in Frederician fiction yet, so we don't have to edit anything. Also, Melchior! In an age where so many people have the same first name, that's a gift from the writerly heavens.

Btw, George Canning's the moody depressed husband of Mary Ann's father was a very authoritarian control freak, and his children either were rebelling or terrified and cowed by him, so I was wondering whether, depending on how compos mentis he still was, Melchior Guy-Dickens had a sense of deja vu about the family his granddaughter had married into...especially since his own had the reverse dynamics, i.e. his children were taking charge of him. (With the caveat that this is how Mary Ann tells the story decades later when explaining to son George why she had to become an actress and why Gramps didn't leave her enough of his money ot make that unnecessary.

Huguenots: and in freaking Ireland, no less!

I loved the Mary Wollstonecraft detail, too, which is why I included it. Coming across a female contemporary reader's reaction, not something written centuries later, was pretty exciting.

(Not quite the same thing, but years ago when reading Vincent Van Gogh's letters to his brother Theo I was also thrilled to come across his reading Jane Eyre and Villette by "Currer Bell". Vincent had no idea either who Currer Bell really was, or that she was a woman, or that he was reading a future classic, he's just writing to his younger brother about two novels he likes.

Uh, yep, that sounds familiar.

Reminded me of one of my grandmothers, too.

Re: Mary Ann Costello

[mildred_of_midgard]

Guy-Dickens: it's a good thing we haven't used him in Frederician fiction yet, so we don't have to edit anything. Also, Melchior! In an age where so many people have the same first name, that's a gift from the writerly heavens.

Lol and lol! Very true on both counts. Somebody should write more 1730 fic so we can use Melchior. :P

Huguenots: and in freaking Ireland, no less!

Well, Ireland was not a bad place to be a Protestant in this period!

cahn: Ireland in this period consists of an oppressed Catholic majority and a dominant Protestant minority.

In the 17th and 18th centuries, various laws were passed banning Catholics from attending university, holding office, voting in parliamentary elections, serving in the army, practicing law, etc. etc. In Dublin, where the Smiths and little Mary were living, Protestants were even the majority.

What surprises me is that they're still speaking (or at least reading) French in 1990! Translate your primary sources for the rest of us, Huguenots!

Vincent had no idea either who Currer Bell really was, or that she was a woman, or that he was reading a future classic, he's just writing to his younger brother about two novels he likes.

Really! I would not have guessed. The Brontes had already been outed during their lifetimes, and Gaskell's Life was published shortly after Charlotte's death.

Bronte/Van Gogh footnote

[selenak]

Vincent to Theo:

“ I don’t know if you ever read English books. If so, then I can highly recommend Shirley by Currer Bell, the author of another book, Jane Eyre. This is as beautiful as the paintings of Millais or Boughton or Herkomer. I found it at Princenhage6 and read it in three days, even though it’s quite a thick book.”

The whole letter: https://vangoghletters.org/vg/letters/let170/letter.html#translation

He remained a fan. That letter is from relatively early in his painting career. Whereas this is much, much later:

Read in any case L’amour and La femme and, if you can get hold of it, My wife and I and Our neighbours by Beecher Stowe. Or Jane Eyre and Shirley by Currer Bell. Those people can tell you many more things much more clearly than I can.

https://vangoghletters.org/vg/letters/let187/letter.html

Re: Bronte/Van Gogh footnote

[cahn]

Aww, that's cool! Those are neat letters, especially the second <3

Re: Bronte/Van Gogh footnote

[selenak]

For more on the Van Gogh brothers and fictional depictions of same, see here.