18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 33

[cahn]

And, I mean, it doesn't have to be just 18th century characters, either!

(also, waiting for Yuletide!)

Comments

Re: 1730 Trending Topics: Mecklenburg

[mildred_of_midgard]

Did Karl Leopold get the bad rap because he was the one who didn't retain power, so no one had any incentive to suck up to him? :P :)

No doubt! But why did he lose power? Was he actually worse than, say, Peter the Great, or did he just get unlucky? Or play his political cards badly? We shall find out (I hope)!

France: Our position on anything that can possibly be interpreted as Habsburg abuses of power is predictable.

I laughed! (Thank you for making that abundantly clear :) )

Fritz: It's not my fault! I could never have foreseen that hundreds of years of enmity would come to an end because people feel insulted when you insult them! (Which I could never have guessed either.)

Incidentally, on the subject of Austria and France getting along, that turned out to be the answer to something else I researched in the last few days. Namely, what is Peter Keith's son doing as envoy in Turin (Kingdom of Sardinia, formerly known as Duchy of Savoy) in 1774-1778? I figured there must have been something specific to be negotiated, and since I now know a thing or two about 18th century Savoy, albeit earlier, I should look into this.

And indeed, there was something to negotiate. Namely:

1770: Marie Antoinette marries the Dauphin of France.
1773: VA's son Charles Emanuel III dies, bringing his son Victor Amadeus III to power.
1774: Louis XV dies, bringing Louis XVI to power.

Victor Amadeus III is deeply concerned about France and Austria being all buddy-buddy, with the King of France being married to an Austrian Archduchess. And thanks to our geopolitical lessons of Victor Amadeus II, we know why this kind of thing would make a Savoyard so nervous. So Victor Amadeus III looks around and goes, "Who has an army and is hated by both France and Austria? Fritz!" So next thing you know, Prussia and Sardinia-formerly-known-as-Savoy are agreeing to have each other's backs in case France and Austria try something.

This, by the way, is a sign of not only how Prussia has become a first-rate power on the European stage, but Sardinia has moved up to become a second-rate power. Back when Victor Amadeus II inherited, in 1675, the only places where Savoy had permanent diplomatic representation at were France under Louis XIV (because satellite state), Bavaria (because the Wittelsbachs are cousins), and the pope (because Catholic). This is not a lot of diplomatic representation! Savoy wasn't actually allowed to contact the HRE regularly, because Louis said no. Ditto Spain. Other Italian states? What are those?

By 1714, Savoy has diplomatic representation at all the major capitals of Europe, frequent ad hoc missions to the less major capitals, and a seat at the table of the Utrecht conference. They may get pushed around by the bigger powers at Utrecht, but it's the first time Savoy has ever had a seat at the table of a congress like this.

So while the side-switching didn't get VA, say, Milan, the decades of relentlessly focused military, financial, and bureaucratic reforms did get Savoy some of what Prussia got under FW.