who turns out to be a gigantic Fritz fan of the type more likely to write books before WWII, not a Nazi in disguise, I hasten to add, just veerrrrry biased in his favor. See, Fritz took Silesia only because it belonged to Prussia by right. All the other wars weren't just to defend his legal aquisition by invasion, it was because MT from the get go wanted to make him a Margrave again and destroy the Kingdom of Prussia. The strategic genius was just defending himself preemptively! (Source: Fritz' Histoire de Mon Temps and Fritz' Seven Years War History and Droysen.) But Hartmann's true masterpiece comes when he has to talk about Poland. See, Danish PM Bernstorff, about whom more in a moment, predicts Fritz would want to divide the country in 1768 already. However, says Hartmann: Bernstorff's judgment on the Prussian policy towards Poland did not reflect reality. From 1772 onwards, Berlin didn't promote the plan of a partioning of Poland, just of separating some Polish territories and adding them to the Hohenzollern state, with the sole intent of not letting Russian influence in the Commonwealth get too powerful.
I'm still staring at that sentence, refusing to believe it was published in 1983.
Aaaannyway. As you may gather, I did read the book, though I admit I skipped a lot early on because as opposed to Mildred, my interest in the Great Northern War is limited. Suffice to say the impression I got was: Denmark hates on Sweden, but after an early rebuff drops out of the war for nine years until the tide has turned against Charles XII for good, and then it drops back in to get a share of the goodies. Prussia and Denmark keep an uneasy eye on each other, due to partially conflicting interests, though they are nominally allies. Oh, and Denmark falls out with Russia once Russia becomes top dog and they realise getting rid of Charles might have created another monster in the neigborhood, but also because the Danish Queen refuses to meet the Tsarina (aka Peter the Great's wife Catherine the later I., due to her origins as Baltic peasant and possible serf) when Peter and Catherine are touring Europe (again). Peter does not forget this.
Of interest to salon of the later eras: FW really did like Lovenorn, and no wonder, though I needed to look him up at German wiki to fully understand why. Lovenorn had an excellent military career, though mostly with the Russians, serving first Peter the Great's buddy Menshikov and then rising. He was present and distinguished himself at the battle of Poltava (aka where Peter kicked Charles' butt) and while eventually returning to Denmark ended his military career as Generalmajor due to gout. Like Manteuffel, he was in Berlin twice, with interruptions. FW had liked him and made him member of the Tobacco Colleague, but Lovenorn was less of a fan and in fact was happy to leave Berlin for the first time because of not liking those Tobacco Parliament sessions. (I should add here that the reason why none of the Danes at the Prussian court was into the Tabacgie wasn't the one we'd assume, it was pure snobbery - FW had born commoners like Gundling there was well as noble men!) They sent him back because he was supposed to be good at FW handling, though.
Also: in the almost duel crisis between FW and G2, Denmark was approached by both Prussia and GB as to whether it would be an ally in the event of a Prussia/Hannover (GB) war, and basically took a DO NOT WANT attitude, which was one reason why Lovenorn had to go back and mollify FW, who took this refusal to join in his potential beating of his brother-in-law rather personal.
Since the Danes are ultra Protestants, they might find FW incredibly frustrating in terms of his changeable foreign policy in general, but they're always very impressed when he does things like offer shelter to the Salzburg Protestants when their Prince Bishop kicks them out. Danish public opinion (if not Danish policy) actually favors Fritz early in in the 7 Years War because it buys wholesale into his propaganda of being the champion of Protestantism against a French/Austrian Catholic takeover of the world. (Completely ignoring that Protestant Sweden and Orthodox Russia are fighting on the France & Austria side. Even Hartman has to admit Fritz was just using propaganda and wars didn't need religious reasons anymore in the 18th century anymore.)
But back to the FW era, where mollifying FW meant laying it on really thick as well, as when the Great Chancellor Holstein told Lovenorn to tell FW that the Danish King "loved the King in Prussia so well that if he learns the later is sick, he cannot wait for the next postal day to arrive so he can learn that Friedirch Wilhelm has recovered".
However, post Katte execution and replacement of Lovenorn by Johnn, FW kept feeling insulted, in this case by Lohnn only being a Legationssekretär, of lower rank than Lovenorn had been, and thus replaced his own envoy in Denmark, Biedersee, as well, calling him back at the end of May 1731 and replacing him with a Legationssekretär, Iwatzhoff, and fuming furtherly in a letter from June 2nd 1731 that Denmark had sent "to nearly all courts people of distinction and merit", except for Berlin, where they sent "only a bad man" - "einen schlechten Menschen" - "with the character of a Resident." Maybe FW suspected who'd been the source of that Katte pamphlet?
(Legationssekretär Iwatzoff protested against this assignment to Copenhagen as well, btw, his chief argument being that it was hideously expensive to live there and be at court, while FW was paying a lousy salary. FW wrote back Iwatzoff could do his job without good wardrobe and an equipage.)
Lastly (about this era, not the book), naturally Denmark and Prussia had a dispute about FW's most favourite thing, recruiting tall men. On December 31st, 1735, Prussian Captain von Vintzelberg leaves with two subalterns and ten soldiers from Emden in order to receive a nice tall soldier named Memme Siefken whom one Count Frydag has made a present of to FW. He's supposed to be escorted to Minden. But en route back, the Prussians stop at Wiefelstede near Oldenburg because the weather is terrible. What happened next is completely differently reported by the Prussians and the Danes respectively. According to Captain von Vintzelberg, about a hundred farmers armed to the teeth at around 9 pm stormed in and attacked the Prussian soldiers who were helpless because due to the terrible weather, they had taken their shoes and socks off to dry them at the fireplace. He personally when courageously throwing himself at the peasants was beaten up and robbed, and then the hundred farmers made off with his property and the tall recruit. FW, getting this report, was fuming and demanded either Memme Siefken or an equally tall and capable soldier in compensation. Also an apology.
Denmark to FW: That's totally not what happened! Firstly, this guy Memme Siefken was born in the county of Oldenburg, so he's a citizen of Denmark. (cahn, Oldenburg is in Germany today, but back then it was in Denmark. Check out Mildred's explanations about Schleswig and Holstein.) Secondly, we all know about Prussian "recruiters" and their methods of "recruiting", FW, and so do the good citizens of Oldenburg. which is why several of them, hearing one of theirs had been "recruited", which they took to mean "kidnapped", decided to help the poor guy. When they arrived at the Wiefelstadt Inn, one of the farmers asked the "recruit": "Memme, is that you? If you are supposed to serve the King in Prussia, you might as well serve the King of Denmark". And when Memme Siefkin said he'd totally prefer that, the next two Prussian soldiers drew their swords, so naturally our poor peasants had to defend themselves! As for your Captain: no one robbed him. Lastly, guess what: Memme Siefkin isn't on Danish territory anymore. He escaped to Holland and wants to stay there. So: you're not getting any tall guys from us!"
FW: Grrr. Argh. You're so lucky I'm not into wars of agression!
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Prussian/Danish Relations according to Stephan Hartmann: The FW Era (and some spoilers for Fritz)
Date: 2021-11-27 08:48 am (UTC)I'm still staring at that sentence, refusing to believe it was published in 1983.
Aaaannyway. As you may gather, I did read the book, though I admit I skipped a lot early on because as opposed to Mildred, my interest in the Great Northern War is limited. Suffice to say the impression I got was: Denmark hates on Sweden, but after an early rebuff drops out of the war for nine years until the tide has turned against Charles XII for good, and then it drops back in to get a share of the goodies. Prussia and Denmark keep an uneasy eye on each other, due to partially conflicting interests, though they are nominally allies. Oh, and Denmark falls out with Russia once Russia becomes top dog and they realise getting rid of Charles might have created another monster in the neigborhood, but also because the Danish Queen refuses to meet the Tsarina (aka Peter the Great's wife Catherine the later I., due to her origins as Baltic peasant and possible serf) when Peter and Catherine are touring Europe (again). Peter does not forget this.
Of interest to salon of the later eras: FW really did like Lovenorn, and no wonder, though I needed to look him up at German wiki to fully understand why. Lovenorn had an excellent military career, though mostly with the Russians, serving first Peter the Great's buddy Menshikov and then rising. He was present and distinguished himself at the battle of Poltava (aka where Peter kicked Charles' butt) and while eventually returning to Denmark ended his military career as Generalmajor due to gout. Like Manteuffel, he was in Berlin twice, with interruptions. FW had liked him and made him member of the Tobacco Colleague, but Lovenorn was less of a fan and in fact was happy to leave Berlin for the first time because of not liking those Tobacco Parliament sessions. (I should add here that the reason why none of the Danes at the Prussian court was into the Tabacgie wasn't the one we'd assume, it was pure snobbery - FW had born commoners like Gundling there was well as noble men!) They sent him back because he was supposed to be good at FW handling, though.
Also: in the almost duel crisis between FW and G2, Denmark was approached by both Prussia and GB as to whether it would be an ally in the event of a Prussia/Hannover (GB) war, and basically took a DO NOT WANT attitude, which was one reason why Lovenorn had to go back and mollify FW, who took this refusal to join in his potential beating of his brother-in-law rather personal.
Since the Danes are ultra Protestants, they might find FW incredibly frustrating in terms of his changeable foreign policy in general, but they're always very impressed when he does things like offer shelter to the Salzburg Protestants when their Prince Bishop kicks them out. Danish public opinion (if not Danish policy) actually favors Fritz early in in the 7 Years War because it buys wholesale into his propaganda of being the champion of Protestantism against a French/Austrian Catholic takeover of the world. (Completely ignoring that Protestant Sweden and Orthodox Russia are fighting on the France & Austria side. Even Hartman has to admit Fritz was just using propaganda and wars didn't need religious reasons anymore in the 18th century anymore.)
But back to the FW era, where mollifying FW meant laying it on really thick as well, as when the Great Chancellor Holstein told Lovenorn to tell FW that the Danish King "loved the King in Prussia so well that if he learns the later is sick, he cannot wait for the next postal day to arrive so he can learn that Friedirch Wilhelm has recovered".
However, post Katte execution and replacement of Lovenorn by Johnn, FW kept feeling insulted, in this case by Lohnn only being a Legationssekretär, of lower rank than Lovenorn had been, and thus replaced his own envoy in Denmark, Biedersee, as well, calling him back at the end of May 1731 and replacing him with a Legationssekretär, Iwatzhoff, and fuming furtherly in a letter from June 2nd 1731 that Denmark had sent "to nearly all courts people of distinction and merit", except for Berlin, where they sent "only a bad man" - "einen schlechten Menschen" - "with the character of a Resident." Maybe FW suspected who'd been the source of that Katte pamphlet?
(Legationssekretär Iwatzoff protested against this assignment to Copenhagen as well, btw, his chief argument being that it was hideously expensive to live there and be at court, while FW was paying a lousy salary. FW wrote back Iwatzoff could do his job without good wardrobe and an equipage.)
Lastly (about this era, not the book), naturally Denmark and Prussia had a dispute about FW's most favourite thing, recruiting tall men. On December 31st, 1735, Prussian Captain von Vintzelberg leaves with two subalterns and ten soldiers from Emden in order to receive a nice tall soldier named Memme Siefken whom one Count Frydag has made a present of to FW. He's supposed to be escorted to Minden. But en route back, the Prussians stop at Wiefelstede near Oldenburg because the weather is terrible. What happened next is completely differently reported by the Prussians and the Danes respectively. According to Captain von Vintzelberg, about a hundred farmers armed to the teeth at around 9 pm stormed in and attacked the Prussian soldiers who were helpless because due to the terrible weather, they had taken their shoes and socks off to dry them at the fireplace. He personally when courageously throwing himself at the peasants was beaten up and robbed, and then the hundred farmers made off with his property and the tall recruit. FW, getting this report, was fuming and demanded either Memme Siefken or an equally tall and capable soldier in compensation. Also an apology.
Denmark to FW: That's totally not what happened! Firstly, this guy Memme Siefken was born in the county of Oldenburg, so he's a citizen of Denmark. (
FW: Grrr. Argh. You're so lucky I'm not into wars of agression!