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cahnAnd in this post:
-luzula is going to tell us about the Jacobites and the '45!
-I'm going to finish reading Nancy Goldstone's book about Maria Theresia and (some of) her children Maria Christina, Maria Carolina, and Marie Antoinette, In the Shadow of the Empress, andselenak is going to tell us all the things wrong with the last four chapters (spoiler: in the first twenty chapters there have been many, MANY things wrong)!
-mildred_of_midgard is going to tell us about Charles XII of Sweden and the Great Northern War
(seriously, how did I get so lucky to have all these people Telling Me Things, this is AWESOME)
-oh, and also there will be Yuletide signups :D
-
luzula is going to tell us about the Jacobites and the '45!-I'm going to finish reading Nancy Goldstone's book about Maria Theresia and (some of) her children Maria Christina, Maria Carolina, and Marie Antoinette, In the Shadow of the Empress, and
selenak is going to tell us all the things wrong with the last four chapters (spoiler: in the first twenty chapters there have been many, MANY things wrong)!-
mildred_of_midgard is going to tell us about Charles XII of Sweden and the Great Northern War(seriously, how did I get so lucky to have all these people Telling Me Things, this is AWESOME)
-oh, and also there will be Yuletide signups :D
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-20 05:41 am (UTC)This leaves him with Ippolito now no longer available to function as secular future head of the Medici line, and only then does Alessandro get favored (which never stops).
....okay, this is super interesting!
It seems kind of amazing to me that no one really knows anything about his mother, but I guess that just goes to show, well, me, how great things were for women, especially "peasant women" :P
(Fletcher thinks the reason why Ippolito writes "peasant" rather than "servant" was that he was after Margaret himself, and of course Margaret's mother had been a servant, too.)
Ha! It's now my headcanon, anyway.
On the one hand, this story comes from his assassin, Lorenzino de' Medici (aka Lorenzaccio), as part of his justication in his apologia where he writes of how Alessandro was totally the modern Caligula. Otoh, Lorenzino had been a friend and confidant of Alessandro's, and thus would actually have been in a position to know. And Lorenzino claims that when Ippolito wanted to present the "dirty peasant woman" who was Alessandro's mother to Charles in order to show how unsuitable a match for Margaret he was, Alessandro had her killed.
Okay, I hit this bit and was like WOW. (And haha, way to raise the tension there :P It's like you know how to keep my attention or something! :D )
(where Lorenzino claims he lured Alessandro to his doom by claiming a hot lady was awaiting him)
Lorenzino, wow.
Something the Margaret of Parma biography I had read didn't include: the marriage was definitely consumated, since Margaret got pregnant, though she lost the baby in the third or fourth month or so. Let's hope Alessandro did it as gently as possible.
Geesh. When she was FOURTEEN? (...my daughter is almost twelve. Eeek.) I can also see though that he might have felt the need to do so as soon as it was at all possible, if he was afraid Charles might change his mind. But yeah, hopefully he was reasonably gentle :(
(Fletcher observes re: the famous story about Margaret's second wedding night, with Ottavio Farnese, where he "only wet himself" according to her, that aside to whatever she thought about Ottavio Farnese, teen Margaret had a very good reason for not wanting to consumate the marriage - presumably she did not want another pregnancy until she was a few years older herself.)
ARGH.
The Ippolito vs Alessandro feud finally erupted into Ippolito attempting to have Alessandro killed (and failing) and Alessandro attempting to have Ippolito killed (and succeeding).
Woooow. Okay, this really needs to be a TV miniseries or a novel
or a Yuletide fic, I'm just SAYING that someone might request Margaret of Parma and so Alessandro would also be fair gameNote: it lasted four days. As opposed to the more fictional deaths which happen at once.)
That sounds... unpleasant.
So, what was it about Lorenzino the assassin?
YES, WHAT WAS IT?! I've been waiting for this since point (2)! :D Wow, I had no idea there was so much drama! But I guess these are the Medicis, so...
Lorenzino/Alessandro as an example of lovers falling out? This is the theory I'm amazed no one mentions.
...I mean, now that you mention it, this would explain everything, right?! Why there are all these rumors of debauchery but no women linked to him... Alessandro being a hit with men (well, at least, older powerful men, but hey, why not younger cute men too?)... them getting along for years and then surprise assassination! It even explains Lorenzino's explanation being "Lorenzino having had the master plan to ingratiate himself with evil Alessandro until he could strike a blow for freedom" which... now that I'm looking at it from this angle, does have an air of the "my ex, he was always THE WORST!"
...And wait, even Lorenzino saying that he lured him there with a "hot lady"... mm-hmm. Sounds like what he'd say if he didn't want to actually say whose hotness was luring him there, if you know what I mean ;) It explains everything! :D
Wow, this was really cool, thank you as always for your wonderful reading and summaries!
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-20 07:09 am (UTC)Alas not an exception in those days. Catherine de’ Medici and husband Henri were also both 14 when they were married (and the marriage was consumated immediately, witnessed by the groom’s father Francis I. who commented that “both had been valiant in the joust” to his courtiers afterwards. (BTW, keep in mind here that Francis and Charles were each other’s arch nemesis and main competition for supreme power in Europe. Meaning that Clement had managed to keep a foot in both camps by simultanously marrying his nephew/possible son Alessandro to Charles’ daughter and his definitely niece to Francis’ son.) (No Medici kids for your family members, Henry VIII!) A generation previously, there is the notorious case of even younger, as in, TWELVE YEARS old Margaret Beaufort, who was married to Jasper Tudor, and gave birth to Henry (future VII, the one who won against Richard III at Bosworth Field) Tudor at age 13. Since this Margaret became one of the toughest women of her age, a friend of mine summed this up as “beware the angry pregnant twelve years old”. But yeah. It could have killed her. And note that when her granddaughter Margaret Tudor was married off to the King of Scotland, Margaret Beaufort insisted she was to be kept in England until she was at least 15. Basically, as soon as a girl hit puberty and bled, and was living with her husband, she had no protection against her husband consumating the marriage other than his not wanting to do it.
(To be gender fair: remember, Margaret’s second husband Ottavio was also twelve years old when they were married, and evidently his family did expect him to consumate the marriage, otherwise he wouldn’t have been so insistant he did it, while Margaret was all “did not!”)
Anyway, back to Margaret not yet of Parma: I checked, and Charlie Steen, the author of the biography I’ve read, was in fact insistent that she remained a virgin and had little to nothing to do with evil Alessandro during their brief marriage. (This, and Margaret liking Alessandro’s successor Cosimo, is also his explanation for the fact she retained good memories of Florence for the rest of her life and would go on treasuring her connections there, which you wouldn’t expect from someone supposedly married to the most evil Medici ever.) However, Catherine Fletcher provides quotes from envoys saying Margaret was pregnant, of Alessandro ordering presents and parties in celebration of the good news, and then that she’d lost the baby, and even if this was a mistake - like maybe she didn’t get her period for two or three months? It happens? -, it could not have been made if the marriage hadn’t been consumated. Since non-consumation was such a standard excuse if you wanted to dissolve a marriage, and since Pope Clement had just died (meaning Alessandro had lost his patron and the chief reason why Charles had origInally agreed to the match), it did make sense from his pov to have had sex with her at least once so he could prove the marriage was indeed a marriage.
BTW, Catherine Fletcher speculates that if you assume Lorenzino was at least partially motivated by wanting to bring back the Republic, then you could make a case that one reason why Alessandro was killed not too long after Margaret’s stillbirth was that if Alessandro and Margaret produced a living Medici/Habsburg offspring, then her father would never allow Florence to go back to being a republic again, he’d be majorly invested in securing the duchy for his grandson, and the resent wars in Italy between Charles and Francis had proven to the locals you youldn’t defeat either one of them on your own. But that’s assuming Lorenzino did it for political reasons.
mean, now that you mention it, this would explain everything, right?!
My thoughts precisely. I mean, I’m biased due to lots of fannish tropes, but “this was my master plan all along! I was just PRETENDING to like him!” Doesn’t ring that convincingly true if you’ve been with the guy for years and years, as opposed to a few months, and would have had ample opportunity to off him before. Otoh, Lorenzino did not benefit from Alessandro’s death in ways other than becoming (in)famous all over Italy. I mean, he used to be bff with the Duke of Tuscany, with all the financial advantages this implies, and then he was an exile. Granted, a bestselling pamphlet “Why I did it!” Writing one, but still - no obvious benefit there. If you’re wondering what happened to him: ten years later, Charles had him assassinated. (Charles: must have really liked Alessandro.)
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-22 05:32 am (UTC)OMG.
Basically, as soon as a girl hit puberty and bled, and was living with her husband, she had no protection against her husband consumating the marriage other than his not wanting to do it.
But didn't Charles say that it wasn't to be consummated for a while?
it could not have been made if the marriage hadn’t been consumated.
I was about to say that I would be up for the Alessandro-woobification fic where he and Margaret connive to make it look like she's pregnant then has a miscarriage, which gets her no sex and him able to argue that the marriage's been consummated, which makes everyone happy, right? Except that I guess it would be pretty obvious if she were menstruating, so I guess that wouldn't work.
I mean, I’m biased due to lots of fannish tropes
Surely this is a plus for this explanation :D
Granted, a bestselling pamphlet “Why I did it!” Writing one, but still - no obvious benefit there.
Heh, maybe he really wanted to be a best-selling author...
If you’re wondering what happened to him: ten years later, Charles had him assassinated. (Charles: must have really liked Alessandro.)
Yes I was, and I forgot to ask, thank you!
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-22 06:41 am (UTC)No kidding. And it got worse for Catherine de' Medici from there, since as you might recall her husband was already firmly in love with his two-decades-older mistress Diane de Poitiers, which never changed. Whatever happened between Margaret and Alessandro, at least she didn't have to perform on the wedding night with his or her parent in the freaking room! (Though Alessandro had a long-term mistress, too, but Alessandro didn't parade Taddea in front of her, or direct everyone else to treat Taddea as the true wife.)
It bears repeating, though: the question of consumation (or lack of same) was always highly political. Just think of the six years it took between Henry VIII. first asking for an annulment and then deciding to become his own Pope instead, much of it revolved around the question as to whether or not his older brother Arthur had consumated his marriage with Catherine of Aragon.
(Incidentally, in this particular case, though, Catherine's mother Isabella the Catholic had thoughtfully secured a dispensation for Catherine and Henry to marry even if the earlier Catherine/Arthur marriage had been consumated. Evidentally Isabella didn't trust the Tudors an inch.)
But didn't Charles say that it wasn't to be consummated for a while?
He did, expressedly so in his letter to her governess Madame de Lannoy, which was one of several reasons why after Pope Clement insisting that Margaret was to be raised in Italy, not the Netherlands, if she was to become Duchess of Florence, he had her sent to Naples (which was under Spanish, i.e. his, rule), not Florence, thereby complying with Clement's request but ensuring Margaret wasn't yet in Medici hands. Bear in mind that Margaret and Alessandro had been married in absentia as was usually the case for princely marriages in their respective countries of origin, with another person standing in for the groom/bride. Technically, eleven-years-old-Margaret was already Alessandro's wife. But it was a marriage Charles could have easily reneged on as long as it had not been consumated.
I'm currently reading very good German biographies of Margaret of Austria and Mary of Hungary by the same biographer, and they include examples of child marriages, too. Margaret herself (Charles' aunt Margaret, that is, whom his daughter was named after, just like Margaret of Austria had been named after Margaret of York the beloved stepmother of her mother Mary of Burgundy) had been married as a child to the French Dauphin, and her husband, who was a few years older (so he'd been a child when they married but was grown up before her) had no trouble getting that marriage annuled when he wanted to marry Anne de Bretagne instead. Mary of Hungary (Charles' sister) was married as a child to the future King of Hungary (also a child) in one of Emperor Maximilian's double marriages projects at the same time as Hungarian princess Anna (the future King's sister) was married to one of Maximilian's grandsons, either Charles or Ferdinand, with Maximilian standing in for one of his grandsons (he really did not specify which one, keeping his options open) at the ceremony. (In the end, it was of course Ferdinand; Charles married Isabella of Portugal.) Mary was nine then and Anna wasn't much older; both girls were however raised at Innsbruck, not Hungary, meaning the marriages didn't get consumated until Mary at age 15 came to Hungary while Ferdinand (who, remember, had been growing up in Spain, and was a year younger than Anna) was coming to Austria.(The Ferdinand/Anna marriage would turn out to be a happy one; the Mary/Lajos marriage didn't last long since he died young, but I haven't gotten there yet.)
I was about to say that I would be up for the Alessandro-woobification fic where he and Margaret connive to make it look like she's pregnant then has a miscarriage, which gets her no sex and him able to argue that the marriage's been consummated, which makes everyone happy, right? Except that I guess it would be pretty obvious if she were menstruating, so I guess that wouldn't work.
Not unless her washerwoman is also a confidant. Mind you, Margaret wouldn't have been under such detailed observation as a Queen. (For example, with Elizabeth I. all the envoys from different countries trying to get her to marry one of their candidates were constantly bribing her washerwomen so they'd know whether she still menunstrated, i.e. was capable of bearing children, once she was in her later 30s, and we also know when Catherine of Aragon stopped menunstrating (which wasn't so coincidentally shortly before Henry became serious about Anne Boleyn. Florence, lovely as it is, and Tuscany weren't on the same scale of interest, but they were both important enough to warrant envoys who did share the gossip in their letters home (hence us knowing about the miscarriage, for example). And Alessandro did let Margaret keep her own household after the wedding - they didn't live together in the same palace, though he saw her regularly at day time events and sent little gifts now and then, but the idea was that she wouldn't move in with him, so to speak, until two more years, which is one reason why her earlier biographer Charlie Steen was able to argue that the marriage remained unconsumated till Alessandro died.
Mind you, you can fanwank that a sympathetic, well-paid washerwoman would be relatively easy to come by for young Margaret, especially since while pissing the Duke of would have been bad, doing a favor for the Duke would have been good for the woman and her family.
Oh, something I had forgotten: among the masques and plays staged for young Margaret when she came to Florence was one of Hades and Persephone. Now, if there is any story one would not think appropriate for a wedding, it would be that of the King of the Underworld kidnapping a young maiden, one would think. Especially if the groom is mixed race and his cousin has been campaigning against this marriage (and for his own marriage with the lady instead) with the argument that said groom is the very devil. Catherine Fletcher, wondering as to what was Alessandro thinking to either comission or at least granting this particular masque (and he did have to okay it, it wasn't snuck past him), comes up with the theory based on the fact he also (on other occasions, not his wedding, at other masques) dressed up in costume as a Turk or a slave, that this was a kind of "I know exactly what you're all thinking, so there, haters!" black humor.
Re: Lorenzino's own death, while it was always known he died in a vendetta for Alessandro, it was usually assumed Alessandro's successor Cosimo ordered the hit, and the discovery it had been Charles instead is relatively recent, as in, 2015, according to this article.
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-23 05:00 am (UTC)Yeah, I mean, I could see that I might not myself (as a twenty-first-century woman) necessarily want to be married to Alessandro, but she could have done a lot worse :P
I'm currently reading very good German biographies of Margaret of Austria and Mary of Hungary by the same biographer,
I can't imagine why :D
and her husband, who was a few years older (so he'd been a child when they married but was grown up before her) had no trouble getting that marriage annuled when he wanted to marry Anne de Bretagne instead.
Ooh, I read that bit in Game of Queens! But I'm just at the edge of history-understanding where things in that book don't stay in my brain unless I get them reinforced, so thank you for reinforcing it :)
and we also know when Catherine of Aragon stopped menunstrating (which wasn't so coincidentally shortly before Henry became serious about Anne Boleyn.
...oh! Huh! (Haven't gotten there in Game of Queens yet!)
Mind you, you can fanwank that a sympathetic, well-paid washerwoman would be relatively easy to come by for young Margaret, especially since while pissing the Duke of would have been bad, doing a favor for the Duke would have been good for the woman and her family.
All right, this is now my headcanon :P
Catherine Fletcher, wondering as to what was Alessandro thinking to either comission or at least granting this particular masque (and he did have to okay it, it wasn't snuck past him), comes up with the theory based on the fact he also (on other occasions, not his wedding, at other masques) dressed up in costume as a Turk or a slave, that this was a kind of "I know exactly what you're all thinking, so there, haters!" black humor.
Yeah, I buy that.
Re: Lorenzino's own death, while it was always known he died in a vendetta for Alessandro, it was usually assumed Alessandro's successor Cosimo ordered the hit, and the discovery it had been Charles instead is relatively recent, as in, 2015, according to this article.
Huhhhh! That sounds like it might be an interesting book.
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-22 10:44 pm (UTC)In related news, I have finished the reading that I need to do in order to present on the Great Northern War. There are more things I want to read, but they're all more advanced, so they're not required for this part, and they're pdfs, so I'm waiting on my tablet so I can have a better pdf-reading setup.
Since it is A LOT to remember, I think what I'll do next is skim the most useful things I read and take notes, then start putting together write-ups. They probably won't be as elaborate as the Spanish Succession write-ups, due to time pressure, but keep asking questions and commenting and I'll do the best I can. :)
In other news, I made good progress in the last couple weeks on getting at least the facts and citations related to Fredersdorf, Pfeiffer, and Kiekemal down, so that I have them in one place in case I ever get around to turning that into an article. I want to do a little more, and then you may hear from me,
And I'd like to stop procrastinating on doing the same for Peter Keith!
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-25 03:50 am (UTC)But I'm excited for the Great Northern War, whenever you're ready! (And as long as you don't mind the comments from me coming slowly :) )
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-25 06:24 pm (UTC)Also, I probably won't do the C12 personality write-up until 1) my physical copy arrives, 2) I have digitized it. The archive.org interface is just too annoying for write-ups, though it's okay for reading. The war I can get started on soon-ish, though, hopefully by this weekend!
Re: Alessandro de Medici: The Defense
Date: 2021-10-31 09:15 pm (UTC)