cahn: (Default)
[personal profile] cahn
4/5. ...okay, I found this book totally delicious because a) I feel like the whole thing was written affectionately but also totally skewering YA-grim-dystopian-love-triangle-ness (there is fake dating, but no love triangle in this book, just snark about the potential for a fake dating love triangle, which I found hilarious -- but also it's a YA grim dystopia that is actually well-written and works and isn't super anvilicious (1), which is... well, I can say that about other YA grim dystopia I've read, but certainly that is not what first comes to mind when I think about YA grim dystopia I've read in the past, much it for the Hugos), and also b) it could be looked at as a (quite well written) subset of Harry/Draco Grimdark AU only we can't have non-het so Draco is a girl with just a very fandom feel to it in terms of the things it's interested in examining from Harry Potter -- I saw a review that compared it to The Magicians, and the thing is that while Magicians had a similar "let's deconstruct Harry Potter via a dark gritty version" idea, it wasn't engaged in looking at it from a fandom perspective. (2)

I mean, the boy's name is Orion, and the book opens with how he is constantly saving people from gruesome fates, and El is really grumpy about it, and she doesn't think he even knows her name before he went off saving her life. And Orion sticks closely to El for a while because he thinks she's a dark magician... I have read all those fics before, is what I'm saying :D I don't think El ever shows up in leather pants but I was totally waiting for it :D (Though, I mean, Novik changes enough that they're their own characters -- Orion is the one who has the cushy pureblood enclave parents; El is the scrappy kid of a lovely hippy single mom.) Anyway, in general, the extremely-fandomesque-deconstruction of Harry Potter / Hogwarts is hilarious to me -- there are all sorts of bits like El explaining why they're always all studying in the library even though they don't really like it there: it's because it's safer there from the marauding monsters! or why the teaching/pedagogy is so horrible: because there are no teachers, it's all done automagically.

As well, although the tone of the book is not heavy (as opposed to dark; it's very dark, but what I mean is that this book is not making a bid to be Srs Lit), I wonder if the entire book isn't basically a metaphor for high school and college admissions and how college admissions / going from school to the outside world in general are basically like a monster that can eat you alive. The graduation monsters literally do so, in the book; but also it happens figuratively, as people overcome ethical qualms to do things that aren't very nice, and not-very-nice-deals are struck, and alliances are made, and people are taken advantage of, and privilege tramples over the un-privileged.

This is all so smoothly done (and Novik's writing is very smooth and compelling -- she really is getting better and better with every book, and I basically inhaled this over a couple of days) that by itself I would have liked the book very much, but what really made me love it are the relationships El forms slowly and painstakingly with a couple of the other kids (not just Orion, although I got a kick out of that as well). That's the heart of the book, and a book as dark as this needs a heart. And it's a good one.

And the other thing that made this book really good: the last quarter of the book I really loved, which brings together a theme I've noticed in Novik's writing before and Harry Potter fandom-critique :) I loved this in Uprooted [ETA: and, [personal profile] thistleingrey reminds me, Spinning Silver!], and I love it here: the idea that sometimes the solution is not to work against the enemy, to promote more and more divison -- but to work with the enemy. And of course that's the most common of Harry Potter critiques: that the Houses never worked together, that a full quarter of Hogwarts was just... written off, by the end, and it's lovely how Novik has inverted the situation here.

The only quibble I had was that much is made at the beginning of everyone disliking El on sight -- El says that this isn't because of anything she does, it's because of something about her or her aura. But then during the course of the book she is able to form relationships with others, and except for Orion it's never really explained what happened to overcome her aura or whatever. The best I can come up with is that El isn't a reliable narrator, and though yeah maybe she doesn't present well and people respond negatively to that at first, she responds to people being turned off her at first by being a jerk to everyone (she does know she does this, and there's ample evidence of this in the book) in a self-perpetuating spiral, and it's that spiral that gets checked with those particular people. But it would have been nice to have just a bit more text pointing to that, not just my headcanon.

Content warning: it is grimdark horror! Lots of gruesome bits, lots of people dying in gruesome ways.

This is the one to have to beat for the Lodestar, I'm guessing. I'll be really surprised if anything else on the Lodestar ballot tops this.

(1) I mean, yeah, sure, the premise is anvilicious by design, but I'm so glad not to get lines about How People Are Evil For Doing X, or whatever; that's what I mean.

(2) I feel that the Scholomance world is, while extremely dark, also more coherent than the ersatz Narnia world of the Magicians if only by virtue of not trying to do so much -- Novik isn't trying to merge two things that are diametrically opposed to each other.

Date: 2021-04-29 08:40 pm (UTC)
leaflemming: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leaflemming
I adored this book; one of the few recent novels I'd read more than twice within a few months of publication. With the exception of Ada Palmer's final Terra Ignota book, the sequel is my most-highly-anticipated for 2021.

My headcanon on El's aura is that she reads as scary, the way people can only magically more so, and once you learn enough to judge her by her choices you can tell that it's just a vibe. She's the magic version of the teen whose style preferences put her outside the safe friend zone, for anyone looking to conform, which at that age is most people.

I'm fairly sure I see where the series is ultimately going, but I have no sense of how it will get there. This is a delicious situation. I've seen Novik set herself problems she doesn't seem to know quite how to solve -- that's my sense of what happened with the final Temeraire novel, where all the tensions of an impossibly complicated not-our-history-but-has-to-resolve-like-our-history story get cut in half by a Very Special New Super-dragon -- but I agree with you that she's been getting better with every book. I have a lot of faith in her.

Date: 2021-04-29 10:33 pm (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
I agree that El probably isn't a very reliable narrator at all - but with relationships, my guess is that it boils down to 'If people actually make an effort to get to know her and spend time with her, it works out fine' with a big heaping side dish of 'Baby!El learned at a young age that it's better to push people away before they push you away for no god damn reason'.

Date: 2021-05-01 05:46 am (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
More explanation would require her to have more insight into something very painful.

Date: 2021-04-29 11:26 pm (UTC)
thistleingrey: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thistleingrey
Re: your cut spoiler: also a feature of Spinning Silver. (I haven't read Uprooted.)

Date: 2021-05-01 03:45 pm (UTC)
thistleingrey: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thistleingrey
Oh, not at all! Just adding to your sense that Novik seems to have this interest.

Date: 2021-04-30 01:41 pm (UTC)
hamsterwoman: (Livejournal -- HP -- Luna)
From: [personal profile] hamsterwoman
I wonder if the entire book isn't basically a metaphor for high school and college admissions

It wouldn't surprise me... but a particularly grim/unpleasant one. (I pretty much also raced through the book, but and I like El a lot, but this was pretty much the opposite of what I want in my magic school stories, so it was a weird reading experience...)

Self-perpetuating spiral and unreliable narrator is how I see it as well -- El's "about to rain" or whatever aura puts people on edge when they first meet her, and she's used to people being leery of her / not caring about her, so she acts like a jerk preemptively, and it spirals from there to where she rarely manages to overcome that initial impression. Except with people she's thrown together with who get the opportunity (and are open-minded enough) to observe her actions and actually adjust their expectations.

Date: 2021-05-02 04:33 am (UTC)
leaflemming: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leaflemming
See, to me the book doesn't read grimdark at all. The world is grim, sure -- in the sense of being a really strong metaphor for privilege and inequality. And El experiences her life is terribly fraught and very likely doomed. But what shines through to me is that she's a massively overpowered child of prophecy whose ironclad grip on basic decency earns her lasting friendships in genuinely testing situations. Admittedly the prophecy seems to involve her ending the world; but I read that as a promise that she's going to end the enclave system and usher in something fairer. So to me the book is a viscerally exciting story about a girl discovering she has real friends, while slowly learning the things that are going to make her a *much more useful* Harry-Potter-level hero.

Date: 2021-05-04 04:41 am (UTC)
leaflemming: (Default)
From: [personal profile] leaflemming
Yeah, that's fair. I'm reading the book again in the wake of your review & it does have a very high body count. And El herself has so many reasons to think she's probably going to die -- it's remarkable how much I enjoy her voice, given how dark her perspective is. What I tend to recoil from in writers like Joe Abercrombie & Richard Morgan is partly the sense that they'll always bend the logic of their worlds towards the cruellest outcomes, & partly the accommodations their viewpoint characters make with those worlds. I come away from them feeling begrimed. Being in El's head feels so different from that... she's such an effective wish-fulfilment character for me... that it's weirdly easy for me to forget all the children the school eats.
Edited Date: 2021-05-04 04:42 am (UTC)

Date: 2021-10-06 01:46 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Oh, that's a great way of putting it.

I think what puts me off in a lot of grimdark stuff is there's no feeling stuff can change -- people can struggle and try to make the world better, but the best they can hope for is an honorable defeat. But if they do have the power to do something, to change something, there's the hope things can be better even if they don't win. (Which is why Rogue One is a comfort watch movie for me -- everyone dies! but they have hope, and they die as they choose to, trying to make things better.)

Date: 2021-10-06 04:24 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
you have to compromise with the powers of the grimdarkness, and that's the way you survive at all.

Oh yeah, that's REALLY depressing. I love both Tiptree and Caitlin Kiernan but a lot of the time in their books the struggle to do good is not only doomed, but useless. I'm kinda wary of the "hopepunk" thing because I LOATHE forced optimism ("I'm glad I got cancer because it was a gift that helped me to see the world differently!" omfg no, not for me) but the Good Guys don't even have to win at the end (see Rogue One). But that their lives have meaning, that they're able to make their own choices and hold fast to their principles and their own selves even if they lose -- if that's not in a story it just really bums me out.

(That said, I LOVED the character of Aunt Lydia in Atwood's recent Testaments, the sequel to the Handmaid's Tale, because she took a very minor and flat character and made her into this sort of Le Carre character who deliberately decides to become part of the regime to bring it down, but it wasn't a bummer for me....maybe because her rage is so incandescent and she's such a master plotter. Hmm.)

Date: 2021-10-08 06:03 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Kiernan is a beautiful, vivid writer who has written some of my fave "dark fantasy" (she doesn't like "horror") books but OMG, I need to space them out or take breaks. The Tiptree story that really gets me is Your Faces O My Sisters. NOOOOOOOOOOO.

Testaments is great! I dunno if it makes sense without Handmaid's Tale tho -- in Tale Lydia is a total villain, and then you get the flip side. Testaments also has some mildly unconvincing teenage girls in it, but I forgave every infelicity because LYDIA. I love great female villains who are like "Burn it all down," especially if they're morally grey and not sure if it was worth it but it's too late to stop now.

Date: 2021-05-24 10:13 am (UTC)
lokifan: black Converse against a black background (Default)
From: [personal profile] lokifan
Oh, this was really interesting to read; I haven't read the book and the stuff I've read about it didn't note/discuss the H/D and Potter critique elements.

Date: 2021-06-17 05:39 am (UTC)
ase: Book icon (Books 3)
From: [personal profile] ase
(I'm hoping [personal profile] ase will read it and report back about what she thinks about the Transformers connection.)

It's the arena and Galadriel is going to grow up to be Megatron. Independent magicians, rise up!

TFWiki page relevant to character naming. I suspect it will prove more complicated than jolly-seeming well-intentioned Orion and his incidental combat magic affinties just happening to exist, but we'll see.

I'm fairly hung up on Orion's ability to pull mana from mals. Why isn't everyone doing that? Can it be taught? Is it an indication of Sinister Goings-On at the New York enclave? (Novik is a G1 fangirl, wacky mad science / engineering projects are in the cartoon's wheelhouse. The experimenting-on-people mad science is more of an IDW-era comics development, IIRC.)

Other than that... think twice about who might be suffering in the dark for someone else's comfortable life. And choose your victory condition wisely.
Edited Date: 2021-06-17 05:39 am (UTC)

Date: 2021-10-06 04:25 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
I was very amused at this boy who shows up right at the start who's the Chosen One and always fighting everything to defend people, and a lot of the time the heroine just needs him to get out of the way. It's not ragging on HP exactly but the entire Chosen One Who Has To Fight trope.

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