I feel like this particular bit wasn't Fritz' problem exactly.
No. I just checked, and late 1742 is covered by AW getting appointed as Commander of the Spandau-stationed regiment Derschau at the end of November and getting gifted Oranienburg in December.
Okay. Hm. Fritz at the end of January '43: I wish I could be useful to you. [Now there's a turn-around, that's usually AW's line.] I'm not as vengeful as you think and know to distinguish indiscretion from malice. The only consequence is that one has to beware of people who can't keep their mouth shut and only tell them things everybody already knows. But let's not talk about the past anymore. And then the next letter from May: It was natural that given my honest love for you, I suffered some displeasure this winter, which came from a direction I least expected. But I assure you, everything is forgotten, and you shall never notice any resentment from me towards you as long as you live. Feel free to come here whenever you want. Which kind of sounds to me like someone in AW's circle (I hope not AW himself) might have talked about things they shouldn't have? AW's letters seem to be lost, since Volz doesn't know more either, but I wanted to put it out there in case anyone comes across something in the future. Mysteries in letters are intriguing. (And frustrating.)
AW thinks that if the King insists on leading his armies himself, then he should appoint a prince of the royal family as regent to govern in his absence in war time. HINT. HINT.
Heee.
Also, interesting, because he was so determined to join Fritz in the previous war and not particularly impressed with the "I want to protect you as the heir, so stay in Berlin" argument, but this suggests that he'd be fine with staying at home and not earning military honours as long as he feels like he gets to do something else that's useful. I know you said before that he became rather disenchanted with the whole idea of going to war and this fits right in. (Also fits my impression from his 1756/57 Mina letters that he was very torn - maybe without being quite aware of it - because he really seemed to hate war and like he wanted to be anywhere else, but also felt like he desperately needed to gain honour and usefulness as a commander.)
"Religion" is also interesting because it shows that AW in the mid 1740s is still influenced by Dad in this regard more than by Fritz
Yeah, also an impression I got, even with Volz' explicitely editing the topic (but largely on the Fritz side I suspect). There are repeated mentions of AW attending religious events, especially around Lent/Easter, and one time where Fritz point blank tells him that AW can do what he wants, but he, Fritz, is NOT going to attend anything, thank you, because he doesn't believe and doesn't want to be a hypocrite.
You know, "The Adventures of Biche" would actually make a good topic for a children's book,
True. I like that idea!
recalling that Fritz' (and Heinrich's) laundry was stolen on that occasion as well
One reason why I want to know if AW commented on Fritz' choice of example at all. (But as we've established, he hardly would have teased him about it, which is too bad.)
These are indeed intriguing quotes, and I'm tempted to say if an expert like Volz didn't find an explanation, we won't, either, but! Considering no one before us seems to have picked up on Fritz lying to Katte about being pressed to marry an Archduchess, this does not need to be true.
Which kind of sounds to me like someone in AW's circle (I hope not AW himself) might have talked about things they shouldn't have?
Yes, that's what it sounds like to me, too. Now for some speculation about possible subjects. I don't think it can be anything political or military, since AW hadn't been told anything in this regard to begin with, and so his circle couldn't have learned something from him (deliberately or accidentally), either. What was he as of the end of 1742 in a position to know that found its way back to Fritz in the winter causing "some displeasure" but seems to have been sincerely forgiven, given that Fritz does not bring it up in later years as an example of AW wronging him?
Possibilities:
1) The aborted France/Straßburg trip. AW, who had been a member of the party, could have talked to people about it, and given that we've seen he either somewhat exaggarates or was under a mistaken impression about the (not) arrest when writing down the trip for his newborn son in 1744, he might have included this in a story told to his friends, too, who in turn talked about it to someone else. Fritz didn't exactly keep that trip secret, he described it to Voltaire and others in letters, after all, but he might not wanted it to be told in the AW version by people not belonging to his own circle? (Would also provide yet another reason why AW gets edited out years later when Fritz mentions the trip to others.
2) Anything to do with their family horror show of the FW years, possibly something that didn't sound too bad for AW but was to Fritz?
3) Considered by me but regretfully abandoned, because AW wasn't with the army in the summer of 1741 and thus would not have known: the Handsome Hussar Georgii/Frederdorf Temporarily Out of The Tent affair.
4) Possibly something to do with Fritz and EC. it's the date more than anything that makes me wonder, because 1742 is AW's first year of marriage to EC's sister. Yes, the marriage itself is a political arrangement and he'll get more distant, not closer to his wife in time, but in the first year, and before Mina or Sophie von Pannewitz (later Voss) are an issue, and with the "male heirs NOW!" pressure, he must have spent considerable time with his new wife. So maybe they talked about their siblings, and AW said something along the line that he doesn't think (as opposed to what EC still believed) this then new separation was just because of the war but that Fritz really means it to be permanent, or, well, anything, and Louise told this to EC, who was the unexpected corner from which Fritz heard it in the winter?
Also, interesting, because he was so determined to join Fritz in the previous war and not particularly impressed with the "I want to protect you as the heir, so stay in Berlin" argument, but this suggests that he'd be fine with staying at home and not earning military honours as long as he feels like he gets to do something else that's useful. I know you said before that he became rather disenchanted with the whole idea of going to war and this fits right in.
And let's not forget, the second Silesian War included the experience (for Fritz, AW and Heinrich at the same time) of nearly dying and seeing Heinrich's page getting his head torn off by a shot that could have easily killed the rest of them as well. There's a big difference between playing soldier because Dad and your entire society has raised you to believe this was the highest purpose for a man and experiencing a war this way. I think AW after the second Silesian War must have lived through an increasing disconnected with the values he was raised with, and even the slightly different ones of Fritz' Prussia (but not different in this key regard), and the increasing realisation that he didn't enjoy war and heroics. Plus there was the inescapable problem that distinguishing yourself militarily was the only option for a prince in Prussia to achieve anything. There wasn't an alternative career available.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Fritz/AW Correspondence
Date: 2021-04-25 06:59 pm (UTC)I feel like this particular bit wasn't Fritz' problem exactly.
No. I just checked, and late 1742 is covered by AW getting appointed as Commander of the Spandau-stationed regiment Derschau at the end of November and getting gifted Oranienburg in December.
Okay. Hm. Fritz at the end of January '43: I wish I could be useful to you. [Now there's a turn-around, that's usually AW's line.] I'm not as vengeful as you think and know to distinguish indiscretion from malice. The only consequence is that one has to beware of people who can't keep their mouth shut and only tell them things everybody already knows. But let's not talk about the past anymore. And then the next letter from May: It was natural that given my honest love for you, I suffered some displeasure this winter, which came from a direction I least expected. But I assure you, everything is forgotten, and you shall never notice any resentment from me towards you as long as you live. Feel free to come here whenever you want.
Which kind of sounds to me like someone in AW's circle (I hope not AW himself) might have talked about things they shouldn't have? AW's letters seem to be lost, since Volz doesn't know more either, but I wanted to put it out there in case anyone comes across something in the future. Mysteries in letters are intriguing. (And frustrating.)
AW thinks that if the King insists on leading his armies himself, then he should appoint a prince of the royal family as regent to govern in his absence in war time. HINT. HINT.
Heee.
Also, interesting, because he was so determined to join Fritz in the previous war and not particularly impressed with the "I want to protect you as the heir, so stay in Berlin" argument, but this suggests that he'd be fine with staying at home and not earning military honours as long as he feels like he gets to do something else that's useful. I know you said before that he became rather disenchanted with the whole idea of going to war and this fits right in. (Also fits my impression from his 1756/57 Mina letters that he was very torn - maybe without being quite aware of it - because he really seemed to hate war and like he wanted to be anywhere else, but also felt like he desperately needed to gain honour and usefulness as a commander.)
"Religion" is also interesting because it shows that AW in the mid 1740s is still influenced by Dad in this regard more than by Fritz
Yeah, also an impression I got, even with Volz' explicitely editing the topic (but largely on the Fritz side I suspect). There are repeated mentions of AW attending religious events, especially around Lent/Easter, and one time where Fritz point blank tells him that AW can do what he wants, but he, Fritz, is NOT going to attend anything, thank you, because he doesn't believe and doesn't want to be a hypocrite.
You know, "The Adventures of Biche" would actually make a good topic for a children's book,
True. I like that idea!
recalling that Fritz' (and Heinrich's) laundry was stolen on that occasion as well
One reason why I want to know if AW commented on Fritz' choice of example at all. (But as we've established, he hardly would have teased him about it, which is too bad.)
Re: Fritz/AW Correspondence
Date: 2021-04-26 08:51 am (UTC)Which kind of sounds to me like someone in AW's circle (I hope not AW himself) might have talked about things they shouldn't have?
Yes, that's what it sounds like to me, too. Now for some speculation about possible subjects. I don't think it can be anything political or military, since AW hadn't been told anything in this regard to begin with, and so his circle couldn't have learned something from him (deliberately or accidentally), either. What was he as of the end of 1742 in a position to know that found its way back to Fritz in the winter causing "some displeasure" but seems to have been sincerely forgiven, given that Fritz does not bring it up in later years as an example of AW wronging him?
Possibilities:
1) The aborted France/Straßburg trip. AW, who had been a member of the party, could have talked to people about it, and given that we've seen he either somewhat exaggarates or was under a mistaken impression about the (not) arrest when writing down the trip for his newborn son in 1744, he might have included this in a story told to his friends, too, who in turn talked about it to someone else. Fritz didn't exactly keep that trip secret, he described it to Voltaire and others in letters, after all, but he might not wanted it to be told in the AW version by people not belonging to his own circle? (Would also provide yet another reason why AW gets edited out years later when Fritz mentions the trip to others.
2) Anything to do with their family horror show of the FW years, possibly something that didn't sound too bad for AW but was to Fritz?
3) Considered by me but regretfully abandoned, because AW wasn't with the army in the summer of 1741 and thus would not have known: the Handsome Hussar Georgii/Frederdorf Temporarily Out of The Tent affair.
4) Possibly something to do with Fritz and EC. it's the date more than anything that makes me wonder, because 1742 is AW's first year of marriage to EC's sister. Yes, the marriage itself is a political arrangement and he'll get more distant, not closer to his wife in time, but in the first year, and before Mina or Sophie von Pannewitz (later Voss) are an issue, and with the "male heirs NOW!" pressure, he must have spent considerable time with his new wife. So maybe they talked about their siblings, and AW said something along the line that he doesn't think (as opposed to what EC still believed) this then new separation was just because of the war but that Fritz really means it to be permanent, or, well, anything, and Louise told this to EC, who was the unexpected corner from which Fritz heard it in the winter?
Also, interesting, because he was so determined to join Fritz in the previous war and not particularly impressed with the "I want to protect you as the heir, so stay in Berlin" argument, but this suggests that he'd be fine with staying at home and not earning military honours as long as he feels like he gets to do something else that's useful. I know you said before that he became rather disenchanted with the whole idea of going to war and this fits right in.
And let's not forget, the second Silesian War included the experience (for Fritz, AW and Heinrich at the same time) of nearly dying and seeing Heinrich's page getting his head torn off by a shot that could have easily killed the rest of them as well. There's a big difference between playing soldier because Dad and your entire society has raised you to believe this was the highest purpose for a man and experiencing a war this way. I think AW after the second Silesian War must have lived through an increasing disconnected with the values he was raised with, and even the slightly different ones of Fritz' Prussia (but not different in this key regard), and the increasing realisation that he didn't enjoy war and heroics. Plus there was the inescapable problem that distinguishing yourself militarily was the only option for a prince in Prussia to achieve anything. There wasn't an alternative career available.