Still in a character switching mood, only this time only with real people: it occured to me that in most stories where characters wake up in each other's bodies, the narrative goal is both maximum hilarity and at least one of the two characters Learning An Important Lesson. (Obviously, back when I did my Lehndorff/Fontane time travelling switch, I weant for maximum hilarity and Fontane doing research. *g*)
Now, if we avoid time travel altogether, and allow switching only between people alive at the same time, what would be ideal combinations? For Fritz, I'm tempted to go with Madame de Pompadour.
The Marquise would work like a monkey paw as well. He wakes up in France, Versailles and/or Paris, no less, which he always wanted to visit, no one speaks German, he's surrounded only by French art, literature and music...but he's a woman. Who's a mistress, and whose worldly power entirely derives from that, meaning that if Fritz doesn't want to end up powerless again, he can't let Reinette repent and withdraw from court. (Depending on when this takes place, sex with Louis XV. isn't an issue anymore, but he doesn't know that.) He can be witty, in fact, it's expected of him, but he has to entertain the bored Louis most of all and never, ever, be sarcastic or mean towards him.
Ideally, this takes place in the late 1740s when Voltaire is still in France and Émilie is still alive, because I'd crown it with Fritz-in-Pompadour with clenched teeth deciding to confide in Voltaire, proving it's really him (which on one else in would be in a position to verify or believe) and ask for help to return in his rightful body, and Voltaire then saying that he's not the scientist, Émilie is. Only Émilie has found about about Voltaire/Madame Denis and isn't in the mood for any favours, so Fritz-in-Pompadour really has to offer her something major to convince her. Like, say, persuading Louis to change the law in France so the Academie Francaise accepts female members, starting with Émilie. *g*
Meanwhile, the Marquise de Pompadour in Fritz' body at first seems to have an ideal time. Everyone around her speaks French, so no linguistic trouble there, and she finally doesn't have to cater to Louis' moods anymore. Or suffer attacks from the clergy. She can just order stuff and it gets done. It's worth putting up with a less than ideal body for that, even though she immediately changes Fritz' hygeniec habits and puts an end to hiding the fact he still wears nice clothing in private, not just the eternal uniform. And his library is great! (She's an avid reader.)
...But there's that Chamberlain/Treasurer/Man of undefined offices NOT speaking French who eyes her with increasing suspicion. And she can't play the flute. (She can do many things and has had a top education, including music lessons, but that's not the same as being an accomplished flutist.) And she starts to wonder whether they'll decide she's in impostor and the real Fritz is kept prisoner somewhere or has been murdered, which probably means the death penalty in Prussia. So she, too, needs to figure out a way to reverse the switch! Whom to ask, to confide in? Why... newly returned to Prussia Algarotti, of course. Who's been flirting with her non-stop anyway and actually takes the news in stride, since he's suspected something like that (not that this stops him flirting) and has met the Marquise de Pompadour in Paris, so can verify she is who she says she is.
Thoughts? Other contemporary combinations for Fritz? Or anyone else?
(Me, I'm toying with G2/FW and Lehndorff/Lord Hervey, but I'm at a loss whom Wilhelmine should temporarily exchange places with...
For Fritz, I'm tempted to go with Madame de Pompadour.
!!!! My reaction to this: okay I have got to ask for this for Yuletide
He wakes up in France, Versailles and/or Paris, no less, which he always wanted to visit, no one speaks German, he's surrounded only by French art, literature and music...but he's a woman. Who's a mistress, and whose worldly power entirely derives from that, meaning that if Fritz doesn't want to end up powerless again, he can't let Reinette repent and withdraw from court.
FRITZ. CAN YOU IMAGINE. THIS WOULD BE THE BEST.
Like, say, persuading Louis to change the law in France so the Academie Francaise accepts female members, starting with Émilie.
lolololol yes this is excellent
Mme Pompadour as Fritz is also great and I love her asking Algarotti for help! (lol to him flirting with both Pompadour and Fritz, btw, because of course he would!) Though since she probably stands to learn somewhat less than Fritz (except, gee, I always thought being a man would be better, and huh, except for the fear of being discovered it totally is!) I think Fritz as Pompadour fills me with rather more glee :)
Hmm, Wilhelmine. In the original Freaky Friday spirit, why not FW? :P Though it's not entirely clear that FW would learn anything really...
Oh, here's a question, who might Catherine/Sophie exchange with?
Belatedly, it occured to me that the big "what if?" in Wilhelmine's life was becoming Queen of England. But the problem here for story purposes is that Fritz of Wales never made it to the throne, he died first. so if Wilhelmine switched places with his wife Augusta, all she could learn would be what she's convinced of already: that Fritz of Bayreuth made a better husband, and that the Hannover cousins were as dysfunctional a family as the Hohenzollerns. She'd have to switch places with her not!mother-in-law Caroline to try out a time as Queen of England within her own (i.e. Wilhelmine's) life time. And Caroline dies in 1737, so it would have to happen before that point, ideally during one of the times when G2 was in Hannover and thus Caroline was Regent in England, which would give Wilhelmine the chance to rule (within constitutional bounds), and would spare her sex with Uncle George. (Because that marriage was decidedly not platonic even in middle age.)
Mind you, against the spirit of the trope, I can see only two reasons why she wouldn't thoroughly enjoy the experience: 1) Caroline's physical condition (Wilhelmine was no stranger to sickness herself, but Caroline in her final years had gout in her feet and suffered from the long term effects of the umbilical hernia she had experienced at the birth of her last child. and 2) 1735!Wilhelmine (that was the last year Caroline could be regent) would of course miss both Fritzes, her brother and her husband, as well as her daughter, and finding Caroline engaged in a feud of mutual loathing with Fritz of Wales would not be fun, either, though I doubt Wilhelmine would care much that Fritz of Wales resented his mother (especially given she did resent Caroline herself at this point; she might even stun the Hannover cousins by actually talking in a non-hostile way to "her" estranged son?).
Meanwhile, Caroline, stuck in a younger body in a backward tiny German principality, would just conclude that she definitely made the right choice back in the day when picking G2 over FW, and get to work on getting her rightful body back, current young adoring husband not withstanding.
Oh, here's a question, who might Catherine/Sophie exchange with?
Depending how serious or how cracky you want the story to be: either an exploited Russian serf (VERY serious variation) or one of her philosopher correspondents (crack variation). Say, Diderot. Diderot-in-Catherine would have the chance to actually start all those reforms he's been urging her to make, but he'd also manage to piss off the Russian nobility in no time flat, make Catherine's long term fave and minister Potemkin distrustful and weird out her boytoy du jour for no longer wanting enthusiastic sex. Since deposed rulers have a very limited life span in Russia, the switch back probably happens just in the nick of time to save both his and Catherine's lives. If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, he also manages to piss of the Russian nobility very quickly, but not as quite as fast, especially since his proposed law changes aren't quite as radical. Otoh, he might be eying the chance to use Catherine's armies against Constantinople as he's been arguing by letter, which some of them would still be keen on.
Meanwhile, Catherine-in-Diderot would at some lovel enjoy the Parisian philosophe life and being a man on a "this is me, taking a holiday" level, but she'd miss power, and while not averse to trying out f/f with Diderot's mistress du jour at least once would not cope with his pious, strong tempered wife for long. (She definitely did not miss being married!) She might involve Diderot in an m/m relationship before she leaves, though. Being on the other end of censorship again and having to worry about the church and state would not be new for her - she had had to watch her every word during her first two decades in Russia, after all - and thus there wouldn't be much to learn on that level.
If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, she'll get in a blazing row with Madame Denis in no times flat and will frighten the community of Ferney with her authoritarianism, thus ruining Voltaire's philanthropic reputation. Otoh, no more "I'm dying any minute!" hypochondria, and Voltaire to everyone's stunned surprise takes to horse riding in his old age and suddenly eats much more, thus losing his skeleton frame. He'll also put the moves on his next handsome, well educated yet not power hungry male visitor. (Casanova? Boswell?)
Heh, yeah, it does rather seem that Caroline and Wilhelmine might not exactly learn that much from the experience, although maybe Wilhelmine would feel even better about the English marriages not being made :)
Depending how serious or how cracky you want the story to be: either an exploited Russian serf (VERY serious variation) or one of her philosopher correspondents (crack variation).
my answer to this is YES :)
Heh, I quite like the idea of Diderot-in-Catherine, and him discovering that this ruling-without-getting-deposed thing is a liiiitle bit harder than it looks :)
If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, she'll get in a blazing row with Madame Denis in no times flat
Okay, I know this is partially because Orieux biased me against her, but even without that I would find Catherine kicking Mme Denis out hilarious.
He'll also put the moves on his next handsome, well educated yet not power hungry male visitor. (Casanova? Boswell?)
Wait, did I miss that? ETA: Nevermind, found your comment from last year. :D
re: Wilhelmine, my thoughts went to MT, either pre-marriages (which would be rather sad for Wilhelmine upon switch-back) or later on (but not during war time I think).
As for Fritz, I'd like to stay close to home and propose Heinrich. Fritz could have his quiet Rheinsberg life - with occasional directives from the monarch - forever! Heinrich would get to actually decide and do something on his own for a change! Now let's see how they like it and if they can stay away from each other ... :D
Now that would truly be in the spirit of finding out whether the road not taken really was the easier/harder one! Two questions immediately came to my mind:
1) Is or isn't Fritz' first comment after waking up at Rheinsberg in Heinrich's body: "He redecorated! Why did he redecorate?" and does he ever stop grumbling about this? (Not because he doesn't like the result. Their tastes in architecture and paintings were too similar for that. But the fact that Heinrich did make significant changes just would not go uncommented.)
2.) If this happens still in the Kaphengst years, does he break up with Kaphengst with or without having had sex with him to find out whether he really was that spectacular in bed to make all the years and all the expenses and the postponed Paris trip worth it?
As for Heinrich, much as he yearned for political action, I think the sheer amount of Fritz' punishing workload would be even more staggering than he'd imagined, but then Heinrich did argue for more delegation in his theoretical writings. I guess we'd find out whether he'd be able to follow suit if he has absolute power himself. One thing is for sure, though: no more eternal uniform. (Heinrich did not drink the cool-aid in that regard. He wanted to be buried in one, sure, but outside of special occasions, he wore civilian clothings.) And I bet the musicians get confused when the King takes up violin instead of the flute.
Something that occurred to me re: Pompadour!Fritz - how much trouble would he have with the French court etiquette? And on the other side of that switch, I do rather want that Pompadour - suspicious!Fredersdorff showdown...
Is or isn't Fritz' first comment after waking up at Rheinsberg in Heinrich's body: "He redecorated! Why did he redecorate?"
Overlapping with the second question, but I'd say that depends on who he wakes up with :P (By the way, do we know if Heinrich ever got drunk? Or was he as careful as Fritz in that regard?) But I guess it's better that Heinrich did indeed redecorate, or Fritz might not even realize what happened for a while, waking up from strange dreams about his future as king... (But where the heck is Fredersdorf and who stole his flute?)
As for the design work, I can't quite decide if he'd be impressed with Heinrich continuing the work in the gardens or if he'd end up missing Sanssouci. (Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.)
If this happens still in the Kaphengst years, does he break up with Kaphengst with or without having had sex with him
Well, I do think his personal distaste for the guy is going to win out, but in case he does feel especially horny curious after all - what with inhabiting a younger body and all - I doubt it'll get anywhere productive regardless, because I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way).
As for Heinrich, I can imagine him seizing the day and immediately making some changes - by the way, would the dogs notice a switch? because that could be another obstacle for whoever gets to inhabit Fritz' body - but my real question is if he could resist making it personal re: Fritz.
Something that occurred to me re: Pompadour!Fritz - how much trouble would he have with the French court etiquette?
Good question. Now I'm pretty sure SD would have insisted all her children being familiar with every fine point of court etiquette, especially her fave Fritz (whom she hoped would govern Hannover with an English princess at his side, after all), FW's opinion on this be damned. And those court etiquette lessons from the 1720s would have been modelled on Louis XIV style lVersailles, not the a bit more relaxed Louis XV. version. Also note that Wilhelmine is very aware on such finesses as what a chair with and without arms signifies when meeting the Empress Maria Josepha; same for two generations earlier, gread grandma Sophie when visiting Versailles. Fritz might have thought court etiquette was rubbish, but I have no doubt he was taught the necessary lessons as a boy.
Otoh: those early lessons were tailored for him as a prince of Prussia. Madame de Pompadour has a unique position not covered in these lessons (no Maitresse en titre at the Prussian court!), and in any case even with good spy reports, Fritz would not know how she interacts with Louis when no one else is present. (He'd know how she interacts with him and other members of the royal family in public, of course, including that she was the first royal mistress to make a point of befriending and being attentive to the Queen.) The smart thing would be to be polite to everyone, use "Sire" when talking to Louis and pick up your cues for future interaction from there, but would Fritz have the patience?
Wait, I just remembered: Fritz was exposed to at least one comparable example to the French court, to wit, the Saxon court under August the Strong. How good are his memories of Orzelska and how she interacted with courtiers and her father alike? (Too bad he couldn't consult her - or can he? I think she's already in Italy at this point.)
By the way, do we know if Heinrich ever got drunk? Or was he as careful as Fritz in that regard?
Hm, I don't recall anything specific. Lehndorff as a young man when partying with all three of the princes mentions a hangover now and then, but not when just with Heinrich, nor does he report - as far as I remember - Heinrich having one. Later, when they're older, he just mentions with disapproval that the favourites du jour - both Kaphengst and Mara are singled out for this - have unlimited access to Heinrich's kitchen and wine cellar and that Kaphengst exploits this, but this goes usually goes with "I don't understand what he sees in him, they're so different!" outbursts. And Henckel v. Donnersmark Jr. when talking about Heinrich's old age excentricities doesn't mention him getting drunk, either. (Though as far as I recall he does mention that Heinrich's pretense of having forgotten all his German and only speaking French loosened in late night meals with vivid discussions and toasting people with "und das will ich Ihnen auch noch sagen". So in all likelihood, like Fritz, he enjoyed a drink now and then, but not to the point of complete drunkenness.
But I guess it's better that Heinrich did indeed redecorate, or Fritz might not even realize what happened for a while, waking up from strange dreams about his future as king... (But where the heck is Fredersdorf and who stole his flute?)
LOL, yes.
Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.
AW, yes, that's lovely to know. Now I doubly regret I didn't stop in Ruppin last year, just drove through, but my time was limited!
I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way)
Arggh, yes, you're right. With Kaphengst, even if Fritz indulged in some horniness curiosity, their ids would not match at all.
by the way, would the dogs notice a switch? because that could be another obstacle for whoever gets to inhabit Fritz' body
I've been wondering myself. On the one hand, the smell would not be different. (Though it would change somewhat the longer the body switcher stays, what with baths and washing now occuring more often.) Otoh, the behavior would be. I mean, for the Marquise: she had pets herself and would presumably like the dogs, but I don't think she'd allow one to stay the night in her bed room. If I'm right in my guess that the dogs and cats of Rheinsberg Heinrich mentions in his burial instructions (as to being kept away from his dead body) were the ones owned by his last boyfriend's wife, who was as big an animal lover as Fritz, though in her case more into cats than dogs, Heinrich was okay with the people around him having pets and had nothing against them but wasn't into them enough to have his own. Lehndorff also never mentions him having any favourite pets. Otoh Christian von Krockow points out that it's interesting Heinrich disliked hunting as much as Fritz did, which given that for Heinrich, not FW but Fritz was "die Schicksalsfigur, an der er sich rieb" begged the question "warum ärgerte er ihn nicht, indem er zum Nimrod wurde?" Which could be answered by Heinrich just not finding any pleasure in hunting/hurting animals. (Which was unusual for male royals of their day. Fritz and Heinrich were really the outliers there.)
Anyway, if Heinrich switches with Fritz, I think the dogs would not be neglected, exactly - especially since the day to day dogcare was done by servants in any case -, but there'd be less petting, to be sure, and as with the Marquise de Pompadour, no sleepovers. In both their cases, the greatest potential giveaway could be they wouldn't know one dog from the other at first! (Unless Heinrich has a good enough memory for dogs to know from his last visit which of them was Fritz' current fave.)
I don't think the dogs themselves would notice the switch immediately. Like I said, the smell wouldn't change, and neither Pompadour nor Heinrich would treat them badly. Plus, you know, there's a good chance Fritz' favourite dogs were the types of dogs to like anyone, as seen by the fact Nadasty's wife took to Biche at once and loved her, this when Biche was dognapped in potentially traumatic circumstances after the battle of Soor. However, Fredersdorf and any other of Fritz' immediate staff would notice the change of attitude towards the dogs (as well as the lack of flute playing). (Heinrich has an advantage over Pompadour here, of course, in that he knows how Fritz interacts with his dogs and could fake it if he figures out what happened quickly enough and thinks he'd better use this chance as much as he can.)
But my real question is if he could resist making it personal re: Fritz.
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive? :)
(If the switch takes place before the 7 Years War, it could also be: "Dear Brother, hope you enjoy being married as much as I do", with the irony being that Fritz just might find Mina - still living with Heinrich in the 1750s, let's not forget - to be better to be married to than poor EC. He did approve of her personally, after all, he liked her.)
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive? :)
Right, we have proof that at least Wilhelmine was very aware, I forgot. Oh, but ... would Wilhelmine get more or less suspicious letters from France all of a sudden?
would Fritz have the patience?
Depends on how precarious he judges his position to be, so he might quickly decide to have some after falling on his nose for the first time! (Maybe a bit darker than intended, but I think he had to - and did - learn patience the hard way during the 1730s with FW. Although I might only be saying this because "I'm collecting stores of patience in advance" was one thing he wrote to AW before coming to Berlin during FW's worst days.)
begged the question "warum ärgerte er ihn nicht, indem er zum Nimrod wurde?" Which could be answered by Heinrich just not finding any pleasure in hunting/hurting animals.
This, yes, but also, the brothers already had their Nimrod (he's even called that occasionally between Fritz and AW) and since he clearly had the steadiest friendship with Fritz (:PPP), I don't know why Heinrich would have chosen it as a thing to annoy Fritz with, having proof that it wouldn't work anyway right in front of him.
I don't think the dogs themselves would notice the switch immediately. Like I said, the smell wouldn't change, and neither Pompadour nor Heinrich would treat them badly.
I'm not a dog person, so I really don't know, but cadence and manner of speech might play a role as well? And then there's the thing where in fanfic terms, we'd have to decide how exactly the switch works and if there's some kind of soul to be switched (could get complicated - or philosophically interesting! - for Fritz for entirely different reasons) and if that's something the dogs would be able to sense after all.
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive?
Basically. Although the marriage part would, for the reasons you mention, just convince him that he was totally right that Heinrich had it better.
Oh, but ... would Wilhelmine get more or less suspicious letters from France all of a sudden?
Oh, absolutely. Also, if Fritz is okay with using Wilhelmine as for attempts at backchannel diplomacy in the 7 Years War, including even an offer of bribery to the Marquise de Pompadour, she must have had French connections in addition to Voltaire. Mind you, these might have been forged rather recently during her months in France during her big journey.
Letters would have the big benefit of being in Fritz' handwriting, so Wilhelmine would know it was really him.
the brothers already had their Nimrod (he's even called that occasionally between Fritz and AW) and since he clearly had the steadiest friendship with Fritz (:PPP), I don't know why Heinrich would have chosen it as a thing to annoy Fritz with, having proof that it wouldn't work anyway right in front of him.
LOL. You speak truth.
if there's some kind of soul to be switched (could get complicated - or philosophically interesting! - for Fritz for entirely different reasons)
True, though I think he did believe there was a soul, just not that it was immortal. Otoh if it can be switched, there are actually long term implications possible for immortality, if you go with a horror scenario. (The villains of a Tad Williams novel have a scheme like this, I think, and also those of Dollhouse, i.e. body hopping as a way to escape death.) Mind you, I don't think Fritz would want that kind of immortality, and also would be just as likely to suspect an evil plot to oust him from power. You have a point about cadence and manner of speech, but I'm instinctively averse to dogs able to sense souls. There's an M.M. Kaye novel where a character quotes the "children and dogs always sense a good person" saying and the author is scathing about it, not least because in that case the person deemed good by the child and the dog in question is actually the villain of the story, and I must admit I sort of imprinted on that.
This said: fanfic allows the author absolute power over the rules, and if one rule is that the dog can sense the true identity of a soul, then so be it!
Something else: both Fritz and Heinrich were rationalists, so their first instinct to waking up in each other's bodies would be to assume it's a dream, possibly a fever dream if they're ill, and then the disquieting suspicion they might have gone insane. So in order to get to the fun part of a body switching tale, one would give them each an experience to assure them this is real as quickly as possible.
I don't think Fritz would want that kind of immortality
Oh, me neither.
suspect an evil plot to oust him from power
Ha. I don't actually know Freaky Friday and have no idea what's the cause there, but somebody setting this in motion for political reasons sounds rather intriguing - either as a successful switch that turns out differently than expected, or as a "gone wrong" version where he's switched with a different person than intended.
I doubt it'll get anywhere productive regardless, because I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way).
ahahaha I was going to say, he might be rather curious about it particularly if this is a fic -- but I suppose you're right. Ah well.
(Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.)
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timeasmymeasure
Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-20 06:34 am (UTC)Now, if we avoid time travel altogether, and allow switching only between people alive at the same time, what would be ideal combinations? For Fritz, I'm tempted to go with Madame de Pompadour.
The Marquise would work like a monkey paw as well. He wakes up in France, Versailles and/or Paris, no less, which he always wanted to visit, no one speaks German, he's surrounded only by French art, literature and music...but he's a woman. Who's a mistress, and whose worldly power entirely derives from that, meaning that if Fritz doesn't want to end up powerless again, he can't let Reinette repent and withdraw from court. (Depending on when this takes place, sex with Louis XV. isn't an issue anymore, but he doesn't know that.) He can be witty, in fact, it's expected of him, but he has to entertain the bored Louis most of all and never, ever, be sarcastic or mean towards him.
Ideally, this takes place in the late 1740s when Voltaire is still in France and Émilie is still alive, because I'd crown it with Fritz-in-Pompadour with clenched teeth deciding to confide in Voltaire, proving it's really him (which on one else in would be in a position to verify or believe) and ask for help to return in his rightful body, and Voltaire then saying that he's not the scientist, Émilie is. Only Émilie has found about about Voltaire/Madame Denis and isn't in the mood for any favours, so Fritz-in-Pompadour really has to offer her something major to convince her. Like, say, persuading Louis to change the law in France so the Academie Francaise accepts female members, starting with Émilie. *g*
Meanwhile, the Marquise de Pompadour in Fritz' body at first seems to have an ideal time. Everyone around her speaks French, so no linguistic trouble there, and she finally doesn't have to cater to Louis' moods anymore. Or suffer attacks from the clergy. She can just order stuff and it gets done. It's worth putting up with a less than ideal body for that, even though she immediately changes Fritz' hygeniec habits and puts an end to hiding the fact he still wears nice clothing in private, not just the eternal uniform. And his library is great! (She's an avid reader.)
...But there's that Chamberlain/Treasurer/Man of undefined offices NOT speaking French who eyes her with increasing suspicion. And she can't play the flute. (She can do many things and has had a top education, including music lessons, but that's not the same as being an accomplished flutist.) And she starts to wonder whether they'll decide she's in impostor and the real Fritz is kept prisoner somewhere or has been murdered, which probably means the death penalty in Prussia. So she, too, needs to figure out a way to reverse the switch! Whom to ask, to confide in? Why... newly returned to Prussia Algarotti, of course. Who's been flirting with her non-stop anyway and actually takes the news in stride, since he's suspected something like that (not that this stops him flirting) and has met the Marquise de Pompadour in Paris, so can verify she is who she says she is.
Thoughts? Other contemporary combinations for Fritz? Or anyone else?
(Me, I'm toying with G2/FW and Lehndorff/Lord Hervey, but I'm at a loss whom Wilhelmine should temporarily exchange places with...
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-21 05:07 am (UTC)!!!! My reaction to this: okay I have got to ask for this for Yuletide
He wakes up in France, Versailles and/or Paris, no less, which he always wanted to visit, no one speaks German, he's surrounded only by French art, literature and music...but he's a woman. Who's a mistress, and whose worldly power entirely derives from that, meaning that if Fritz doesn't want to end up powerless again, he can't let Reinette repent and withdraw from court.
FRITZ. CAN YOU IMAGINE. THIS WOULD BE THE BEST.
Like, say, persuading Louis to change the law in France so the Academie Francaise accepts female members, starting with Émilie.
lolololol yes this is excellent
Mme Pompadour as Fritz is also great and I love her asking Algarotti for help! (lol to him flirting with both Pompadour and Fritz, btw, because of course he would!) Though since she probably stands to learn somewhat less than Fritz (except, gee, I always thought being a man would be better, and huh, except for the fear of being discovered it totally is!) I think Fritz as Pompadour fills me with rather more glee :)
Hmm, Wilhelmine. In the original Freaky Friday spirit, why not FW? :P Though it's not entirely clear that FW would learn anything really...
Oh, here's a question, who might Catherine/Sophie exchange with?
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-21 06:49 am (UTC)Mind you, against the spirit of the trope, I can see only two reasons why she wouldn't thoroughly enjoy the experience: 1) Caroline's physical condition (Wilhelmine was no stranger to sickness herself, but Caroline in her final years had gout in her feet and suffered from the long term effects of the umbilical hernia she had experienced at the birth of her last child. and 2) 1735!Wilhelmine (that was the last year Caroline could be regent) would of course miss both Fritzes, her brother and her husband, as well as her daughter, and finding Caroline engaged in a feud of mutual loathing with Fritz of Wales would not be fun, either, though I doubt Wilhelmine would care much that Fritz of Wales resented his mother (especially given she did resent Caroline herself at this point; she might even stun the Hannover cousins by actually talking in a non-hostile way to "her" estranged son?).
Meanwhile, Caroline, stuck in a younger body in a backward tiny German principality, would just conclude that she definitely made the right choice back in the day when picking G2 over FW, and get to work on getting her rightful body back, current young adoring husband not withstanding.
Oh, here's a question, who might Catherine/Sophie exchange with?
Depending how serious or how cracky you want the story to be: either an exploited Russian serf (VERY serious variation) or one of her philosopher correspondents (crack variation). Say, Diderot. Diderot-in-Catherine would have the chance to actually start all those reforms he's been urging her to make, but he'd also manage to piss off the Russian nobility in no time flat, make Catherine's long term fave and minister Potemkin distrustful and weird out her boytoy du jour for no longer wanting enthusiastic sex. Since deposed rulers have a very limited life span in Russia, the switch back probably happens just in the nick of time to save both his and Catherine's lives. If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, he also manages to piss of the Russian nobility very quickly, but not as quite as fast, especially since his proposed law changes aren't quite as radical. Otoh, he might be eying the chance to use Catherine's armies against Constantinople as he's been arguing by letter, which some of them would still be keen on.
Meanwhile, Catherine-in-Diderot would at some lovel enjoy the Parisian philosophe life and being a man on a "this is me, taking a holiday" level, but she'd miss power, and while not averse to trying out f/f with Diderot's mistress du jour at least once would not cope with his pious, strong tempered wife for long. (She definitely did not miss being married!) She might involve Diderot in an m/m relationship before she leaves, though. Being on the other end of censorship again and having to worry about the church and state would not be new for her - she had had to watch her every word during her first two decades in Russia, after all - and thus there wouldn't be much to learn on that level.
If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, she'll get in a blazing row with Madame Denis in no times flat and will frighten the community of Ferney with her authoritarianism, thus ruining Voltaire's philanthropic reputation. Otoh, no more "I'm dying any minute!" hypochondria, and Voltaire to everyone's stunned surprise takes to horse riding in his old age and suddenly eats much more, thus losing his skeleton frame. He'll also put the moves on his next handsome, well educated yet not power hungry male visitor. (Casanova? Boswell?)
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-23 05:14 am (UTC)Depending how serious or how cracky you want the story to be: either an exploited Russian serf (VERY serious variation) or one of her philosopher correspondents (crack variation).
my answer to this is YES :)
Heh, I quite like the idea of Diderot-in-Catherine, and him discovering that this ruling-without-getting-deposed thing is a liiiitle bit harder than it looks :)
If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, she'll get in a blazing row with Madame Denis in no times flat
Okay, I know this is partially because Orieux biased me against her, but even without that I would find Catherine kicking Mme Denis out hilarious.
He'll also put the moves on his next handsome, well educated yet not power hungry male visitor. (Casanova? Boswell?)
HAHAHAHAHA
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-23 08:59 am (UTC)Wait, did I miss that? ETA: Nevermind, found your comment from last year. :D
re: Wilhelmine, my thoughts went to MT, either pre-marriages (which would be rather sad for Wilhelmine upon switch-back) or later on (but not during war time I think).
As for Fritz, I'd like to stay close to home and propose Heinrich. Fritz could have his quiet Rheinsberg life - with occasional directives from the monarch - forever! Heinrich would get to actually decide and do something on his own for a change! Now let's see how they like it and if they can stay away from each other ... :D
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-23 01:57 pm (UTC)1) Is or isn't Fritz' first comment after waking up at Rheinsberg in Heinrich's body: "He redecorated! Why did he redecorate?" and does he ever stop grumbling about this? (Not because he doesn't like the result. Their tastes in architecture and paintings were too similar for that. But the fact that Heinrich did make significant changes just would not go uncommented.)
2.) If this happens still in the Kaphengst years, does he break up with Kaphengst with or without having had sex with him to find out whether he really was that spectacular in bed to make all the years and all the expenses and the postponed Paris trip worth it?
As for Heinrich, much as he yearned for political action, I think the sheer amount of Fritz' punishing workload would be even more staggering than he'd imagined, but then Heinrich did argue for more delegation in his theoretical writings. I guess we'd find out whether he'd be able to follow suit if he has absolute power himself. One thing is for sure, though: no more eternal uniform. (Heinrich did not drink the cool-aid in that regard. He wanted to be buried in one, sure, but outside of special occasions, he wore civilian clothings.) And I bet the musicians get confused when the King takes up violin instead of the flute.
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-23 07:04 pm (UTC)And on the other side of that switch, I do rather want that Pompadour - suspicious!Fredersdorff showdown...
Is or isn't Fritz' first comment after waking up at Rheinsberg in Heinrich's body: "He redecorated! Why did he redecorate?"
Overlapping with the second question, but I'd say that depends on who he wakes up with :P (By the way, do we know if Heinrich ever got drunk? Or was he as careful as Fritz in that regard?) But I guess it's better that Heinrich did indeed redecorate, or Fritz might not even realize what happened for a while, waking up from strange dreams about his future as king... (But where the heck is Fredersdorf and who stole his flute?)
As for the design work, I can't quite decide if he'd be impressed with Heinrich continuing the work in the gardens or if he'd end up missing Sanssouci. (Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.)
If this happens still in the Kaphengst years, does he break up with Kaphengst with or without having had sex with him
Well, I do think his personal distaste for the guy is going to win out, but in case he does feel especially
hornycurious after all - what with inhabiting a younger body and all - I doubt it'll get anywhere productive regardless, because I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way).As for Heinrich, I can imagine him seizing the day and immediately making some changes - by the way, would the dogs notice a switch? because that could be another obstacle for whoever gets to inhabit Fritz' body - but my real question is if he could resist making it personal re: Fritz.
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-24 07:35 am (UTC)Good question. Now I'm pretty sure SD would have insisted all her children being familiar with every fine point of court etiquette, especially her fave Fritz (whom she hoped would govern Hannover with an English princess at his side, after all), FW's opinion on this be damned. And those court etiquette lessons from the 1720s would have been modelled on Louis XIV style lVersailles, not the a bit more relaxed Louis XV. version. Also note that Wilhelmine is very aware on such finesses as what a chair with and without arms signifies when meeting the Empress Maria Josepha; same for two generations earlier, gread grandma Sophie when visiting Versailles. Fritz might have thought court etiquette was rubbish, but I have no doubt he was taught the necessary lessons as a boy.
Otoh: those early lessons were tailored for him as a prince of Prussia. Madame de Pompadour has a unique position not covered in these lessons (no Maitresse en titre at the Prussian court!), and in any case even with good spy reports, Fritz would not know how she interacts with Louis when no one else is present. (He'd know how she interacts with him and other members of the royal family in public, of course, including that she was the first royal mistress to make a point of befriending and being attentive to the Queen.) The smart thing would be to be polite to everyone, use "Sire" when talking to Louis and pick up your cues for future interaction from there, but would Fritz have the patience?
Wait, I just remembered: Fritz was exposed to at least one comparable example to the French court, to wit, the Saxon court under August the Strong. How good are his memories of Orzelska and how she interacted with courtiers and her father alike? (Too bad he couldn't consult her - or can he? I think she's already in Italy at this point.)
By the way, do we know if Heinrich ever got drunk? Or was he as careful as Fritz in that regard?
Hm, I don't recall anything specific. Lehndorff as a young man when partying with all three of the princes mentions a hangover now and then, but not when just with Heinrich, nor does he report - as far as I remember - Heinrich having one. Later, when they're older, he just mentions with disapproval that the favourites du jour - both Kaphengst and Mara are singled out for this - have unlimited access to Heinrich's kitchen and wine cellar and that Kaphengst exploits this, but this goes usually goes with "I don't understand what he sees in him, they're so different!" outbursts. And Henckel v. Donnersmark Jr. when talking about Heinrich's old age excentricities doesn't mention him getting drunk, either. (Though as far as I recall he does mention that Heinrich's pretense of having forgotten all his German and only speaking French loosened in late night meals with vivid discussions and toasting people with "und das will ich Ihnen auch noch sagen". So in all likelihood, like Fritz, he enjoyed a drink now and then, but not to the point of complete drunkenness.
But I guess it's better that Heinrich did indeed redecorate, or Fritz might not even realize what happened for a while, waking up from strange dreams about his future as king... (But where the heck is Fredersdorf and who stole his flute?)
LOL, yes.
Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.
AW, yes, that's lovely to know. Now I doubly regret I didn't stop in Ruppin last year, just drove through, but my time was limited!
I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way)
Arggh, yes, you're right. With Kaphengst, even if Fritz indulged in some
horninesscuriosity, their ids would not match at all.by the way, would the dogs notice a switch? because that could be another obstacle for whoever gets to inhabit Fritz' body
I've been wondering myself. On the one hand, the smell would not be different. (Though it would change somewhat the longer the body switcher stays, what with baths and washing now occuring more often.) Otoh, the behavior would be. I mean, for the Marquise: she had pets herself and would presumably like the dogs, but I don't think she'd allow one to stay the night in her bed room. If I'm right in my guess that the dogs and cats of Rheinsberg Heinrich mentions in his burial instructions (as to being kept away from his dead body) were the ones owned by his last boyfriend's wife, who was as big an animal lover as Fritz, though in her case more into cats than dogs, Heinrich was okay with the people around him having pets and had nothing against them but wasn't into them enough to have his own. Lehndorff also never mentions him having any favourite pets. Otoh Christian von Krockow points out that it's interesting Heinrich disliked hunting as much as Fritz did, which given that for Heinrich, not FW but Fritz was "die Schicksalsfigur, an der er sich rieb" begged the question "warum ärgerte er ihn nicht, indem er zum Nimrod wurde?" Which could be answered by Heinrich just not finding any pleasure in hunting/hurting animals. (Which was unusual for male royals of their day. Fritz and Heinrich were really the outliers there.)
Anyway, if Heinrich switches with Fritz, I think the dogs would not be neglected, exactly - especially since the day to day dogcare was done by servants in any case -, but there'd be less petting, to be sure, and as with the Marquise de Pompadour, no sleepovers. In both their cases, the greatest potential giveaway could be they wouldn't know one dog from the other at first! (Unless Heinrich has a good enough memory for dogs to know from his last visit which of them was Fritz' current fave.)
I don't think the dogs themselves would notice the switch immediately. Like I said, the smell wouldn't change, and neither Pompadour nor Heinrich would treat them badly. Plus, you know, there's a good chance Fritz' favourite dogs were the types of dogs to like anyone, as seen by the fact Nadasty's wife took to Biche at once and loved her, this when Biche was dognapped in potentially traumatic circumstances after the battle of Soor. However, Fredersdorf and any other of Fritz' immediate staff would notice the change of attitude towards the dogs (as well as the lack of flute playing). (Heinrich has an advantage over Pompadour here, of course, in that he knows how Fritz interacts with his dogs and could fake it if he figures out what happened quickly enough and thinks he'd better use this chance as much as he can.)
But my real question is if he could resist making it personal re: Fritz.
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive? :)
(If the switch takes place before the 7 Years War, it could also be: "Dear Brother, hope you enjoy being married as much as I do", with the irony being that Fritz just might find Mina - still living with Heinrich in the 1750s, let's not forget - to be better to be married to than poor EC. He did approve of her personally, after all, he liked her.)
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-24 05:20 pm (UTC)!!!! okay I WANT THIS
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-24 07:21 pm (UTC)Oh, but ... would Wilhelmine get more or less suspicious letters from France all of a sudden?
would Fritz have the patience?
Depends on how precarious he judges his position to be, so he might quickly decide to have some after falling on his nose for the first time! (Maybe a bit darker than intended, but I think he had to - and did - learn patience the hard way during the 1730s with FW. Although I might only be saying this because "I'm collecting stores of patience in advance" was one thing he wrote to AW before coming to Berlin during FW's worst days.)
begged the question "warum ärgerte er ihn nicht, indem er zum Nimrod wurde?" Which could be answered by Heinrich just not finding any pleasure in hunting/hurting animals.
This, yes, but also, the brothers already had their Nimrod (he's even called that occasionally between Fritz and AW) and since he clearly had the steadiest friendship with Fritz (:PPP), I don't know why Heinrich would have chosen it as a thing to annoy Fritz with, having proof that it wouldn't work anyway right in front of him.
I don't think the dogs themselves would notice the switch immediately. Like I said, the smell wouldn't change, and neither Pompadour nor Heinrich would treat them badly.
I'm not a dog person, so I really don't know, but cadence and manner of speech might play a role as well? And then there's the thing where in fanfic terms, we'd have to decide how exactly the switch works and if there's some kind of soul to be switched (could get complicated - or philosophically interesting! - for Fritz for entirely different reasons) and if that's something the dogs would be able to sense after all.
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive?
Basically. Although the marriage part would, for the reasons you mention, just convince him that he was totally right that Heinrich had it better.
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-25 07:39 am (UTC)Oh, absolutely. Also, if Fritz is okay with using Wilhelmine as for attempts at backchannel diplomacy in the 7 Years War, including even an offer of bribery to the Marquise de Pompadour, she must have had French connections in addition to Voltaire. Mind you, these might have been forged rather recently during her months in France during her big journey.
Letters would have the big benefit of being in Fritz' handwriting, so Wilhelmine would know it was really him.
the brothers already had their Nimrod (he's even called that occasionally between Fritz and AW) and since he clearly had the steadiest friendship with Fritz (:PPP), I don't know why Heinrich would have chosen it as a thing to annoy Fritz with, having proof that it wouldn't work anyway right in front of him.
LOL. You speak truth.
if there's some kind of soul to be switched (could get complicated - or philosophically interesting! - for Fritz for entirely different reasons)
True, though I think he did believe there was a soul, just not that it was immortal. Otoh if it can be switched, there are actually long term implications possible for immortality, if you go with a horror scenario. (The villains of a Tad Williams novel have a scheme like this, I think, and also those of Dollhouse, i.e. body hopping as a way to escape death.) Mind you, I don't think Fritz would want that kind of immortality, and also would be just as likely to suspect an evil plot to oust him from power. You have a point about cadence and manner of speech, but I'm instinctively averse to dogs able to sense souls. There's an M.M. Kaye novel where a character quotes the "children and dogs always sense a good person" saying and the author is scathing about it, not least because in that case the person deemed good by the child and the dog in question is actually the villain of the story, and I must admit I sort of imprinted on that.
This said: fanfic allows the author absolute power over the rules, and if one rule is that the dog can sense the true identity of a soul, then so be it!
Something else: both Fritz and Heinrich were rationalists, so their first instinct to waking up in each other's bodies would be to assume it's a dream, possibly a fever dream if they're ill, and then the disquieting suspicion they might have gone insane. So in order to get to the fun part of a body switching tale, one would give them each an experience to assure them this is real as quickly as possible.
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-25 07:01 pm (UTC)Oh, me neither.
suspect an evil plot to oust him from power
Ha. I don't actually know Freaky Friday and have no idea what's the cause there, but somebody setting this in motion for political reasons sounds rather intriguing - either as a successful switch that turns out differently than expected, or as a "gone wrong" version where he's switched with a different person than intended.
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-24 05:17 pm (UTC)ahahaha I was going to say, he might be rather curious about it
particularly if this is a fic-- but I suppose you're right. Ah well.(Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.)
Oh, that's really cool! <3
Re: Freaky Friday in Frederician Times
Date: 2021-04-24 05:16 pm (UTC)