Tears in his eyes: that's from Manger, though I'm not sure Manger says "Dresden"; in any event, Fritz wasn't there, he was in Breslau. With Amalie visiting. Which I happen to know. (Lehndorff writes about her visiting Fritz there in January. Winter HQ 1758: definitely BRESLAU.) As to who Manger might have it from: well, Fritz' idea of keeping him busy in the later 7 Years War was to let him teach the younger pages. (He even mentions a von Pirch as his favourite student, but it can't have been Carel since Manger says his von Pirch later went into French service, and Carel died.) So maybe from them?
acquitted himself so well that Fritz made him valet and gave him Zernikow (either chronological nonsense on Ledebur's part
Definitely that, as Exner claims it as well, and yeah, no. We have the 1740 dcoument (with all of Fritz' shiny new titles, remember), since Fahlenkamp thankfully reprinted it. Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
Speaking of rumors about Fredersdorf's Paris trip, something I didn't tell you is that Manger says there were rumors he met Louis XIV there. Which he doesn't believe, but there were rumors. Good on you for not believing them, Manger, what with Le Roi Soleil being dead since decades and Fredersdorf not into necromancy...
Also of interest: Fredersdorf was a musician and son of a musician, but because he was so tall and well-built/well-grown? (gut gewachsen), he had to serve in the army!
Well that was in Fahlenkamp as well. Again, I say, he so lucked out FW didn't recruit him as his personal oboist!
Tears in his eyes: that's from Manger, though I'm not sure Manger says "Dresden"; in any event, Fritz wasn't there, he was in Breslau. With Amalie visiting. Which I happen to know.
I know you know! But what I don't know is whether Fritz made a quick trip to Dresden while in winter quarters even if he was staying in Silesia. (Which he was doing because he had just taken Breslau after Leuthen, something I have reason to know about myself. ;) Breslau, which I remind you, had to be retaken because it just been surrendered by letter-forwarding, soon-to-be-cashiered cousin Katte.)
Speaking of cashiering, it in no way excuses Fritz's behavior toward AW, nor does it negate the psychological aspects of militarily crushing Dad's favorite son, the one he thought had so much military promise, but the more I read, the more I see the English cutting off the heads of admirals and generals who didn't engage with the enemy when the government thought they should have. I know Voltaire had satirized this in Candide (inventing the phrase "pour encourager les autres"), but I've now seen two English generals lose their heads in the War of the Spanish Succession too, fifty years earlier. Now, if Voltaire could see that this is outrageous, I'm not excusing Fritz, but when he said, "I would be justified in having your head cut off," there is contemporary military precedent. (The fraternal aspect and their joint FW history is what makes it so special.)
(He even mentions a von Pirch as his favourite student, but it can't have been Carel since Manger says his von Pirch later went into French service, and Carel died.
Also because Fredersdorf outlived Carel by a few months, if Carel died in 1757. But he had brothers, so who knows.
We have the 1740 dcoument (with all of Fritz' shiny new titles, remember)
I remember!
Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
No. What I also can't imagine is 1730s Fritz being stupid enough to do it. :P
"But Dad! He's so frugal! He's making it thrive! There's mulberry trees and everything. And he's tall and played the oboe in the military! Wouldn't you give him an estate??" :'D
Good on you for not believing them, Manger, what with Le Roi Soleil being dead since decades and Fredersdorf not into necromancy...
Lol! Um, any chance of a typo? I could see rumors that he met Louis XV, and people speculating about the political import of that meeting.
Well that was in Fahlenkamp as well.
Argh, when will my copy come so I can read it myself and remember what's in it? :P
Again, I say, he so lucked out FW didn't recruit him as his personal oboist!
Exactly the context in which I was reporting this!
Exner continues to be informative, but every now and then keeps including little mistakes which make me hickup. She seems to think Fredersdorf was actually one of the students in Frankfurt an der Oder, and got his musical training at college there. (As opposed to Dad the town piper.) And then she observes that Fritz' Rheinsberg capella is lacking an oboist and that "it is every unlikely that either Frederick himself or Fredersdorf were trained in playing the oboe".
Otoh, her pointing out that unlike Fritz' pre 1740 friends, his Rheinsberg musicians, as much as he'd occasionally bitch about them being an unruly lot in letters to Wilhelmine, survived the transition to the King Fritz era completely is very true. But no sooner do I nod that there's a sentence like her statement that Fritz, unlike many other kings, "did not give cabinet jobs to his drinking and hunting companions". Considering she keeps quoting from Thomas Carlyle and he's bound to have included that factoid in his many volumed biography, you'd think she knew that Fritz didn't have hunting companions. ;) (Also, there's the perfect Fritz quote expressing the same basic idea ready - his explanation as to why he doesn't want to talk politics with Voltaire: "That would be like drinking tea with one's mistress."
Cutting of heads: I hear you, and agree that it's the fraternal aspect and their shared FW history that makes it special. And, I might add, the following year. There's a reason why so many biographies tend to flash forward from Bautzen (casheering) to Oranienburg (AW dying) a year later, and don't mention the long year in between. Fritz had been pissed off at Schmettau, too, but Schmettau didn't get "it's your fault if we lose this war and all die!" and "the only thing you're fit to command is a seraglio" type of letters.
Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
No. What I also can't imagine is 1730s Fritz being stupid enough to do it. :P
LOL, agreed. Also, I dimly seem to recall Fritz didn't even own Zernikow until 1737 - he bought it then, it wasn't crown property but privately owned by a Colonel something or the other.
Pity lots of little historical details are off, but we'll forgive her.
"it is every unlikely that either Frederick himself or Fredersdorf were trained in playing the oboe".
*hiccup* Though I'm sure that's what they told FW!
LOL, agreed. Also, I dimly seem to recall Fritz didn't even own Zernikow until 1737 - he bought it then, it wasn't crown property but privately owned by a Colonel something or the other.
Good memory!
The Zernikow website provides the history of the estate before and after. It was chronically mismanaged and in debt through F1 and FW's reigns, and often changed its owner accordingly. Fritz bought it as Crown Prince in 1737 from the previous owner, a Lieutenant de Beville (who himself had bought it in 1731), and at first rented it to six citizens in the area. In 1740, when he ascended to the throne, he ended the contracts and gave it to Fredersdorf, who despite all his work for Fritz found time to completely reorganize the estate.
ETA:
Considering she keeps quoting from Thomas Carlyle and he's bound to have included that factoid in his many volumed biography, you'd think she knew that Fritz didn't have hunting companions. ;)
Or drinking companions. (Watered-down champagne doesn't count.) But let's be real: who reads the many volumed Carlyle biography in toto? Because I haven't, and as far as I know, you haven't. :P felis? Cover-to-cover?
But you should know that for other reasons, if your dissertation is on Fritz.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Music diss
Date: 2021-03-19 05:55 pm (UTC)acquitted himself so well that Fritz made him valet and gave him Zernikow (either chronological nonsense on Ledebur's part
Definitely that, as Exner claims it as well, and yeah, no. We have the 1740 dcoument (with all of Fritz' shiny new titles, remember), since Fahlenkamp thankfully reprinted it. Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
Speaking of rumors about Fredersdorf's Paris trip, something I didn't tell you is that Manger says there were rumors he met Louis XIV there. Which he doesn't believe, but there were rumors. Good on you for not believing them, Manger, what with Le Roi Soleil being dead since decades and Fredersdorf not into necromancy...
Also of interest: Fredersdorf was a musician and son of a musician, but because he was so tall and well-built/well-grown? (gut gewachsen), he had to serve in the army!
Well that was in Fahlenkamp as well. Again, I say, he so lucked out FW didn't recruit him as his personal oboist!
Re: Music diss
Date: 2021-03-19 08:15 pm (UTC)I know you know! But what I don't know is whether Fritz made a quick trip to Dresden while in winter quarters even if he was staying in Silesia. (Which he was doing because he had just taken Breslau after Leuthen, something I have reason to know about myself. ;) Breslau, which I remind you, had to be retaken because it just been surrendered by letter-forwarding, soon-to-be-cashiered cousin Katte.)
Speaking of cashiering, it in no way excuses Fritz's behavior toward AW, nor does it negate the psychological aspects of militarily crushing Dad's favorite son, the one he thought had so much military promise, but the more I read, the more I see the English cutting off the heads of admirals and generals who didn't engage with the enemy when the government thought they should have. I know Voltaire had satirized this in Candide (inventing the phrase "pour encourager les autres"), but I've now seen two English generals lose their heads in the War of the Spanish Succession too, fifty years earlier. Now, if Voltaire could see that this is outrageous, I'm not excusing Fritz, but when he said, "I would be justified in having your head cut off," there is contemporary military precedent. (The fraternal aspect and their joint FW history is what makes it so special.)
(He even mentions a von Pirch as his favourite student, but it can't have been Carel since Manger says his von Pirch later went into French service, and Carel died.
Also because Fredersdorf outlived Carel by a few months, if Carel died in 1757. But he had brothers, so who knows.
We have the 1740 dcoument (with all of Fritz' shiny new titles, remember)
I remember!
Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
No. What I also can't imagine is 1730s Fritz being stupid enough to do it. :P
"But Dad! He's so frugal! He's making it thrive! There's mulberry trees and everything. And he's tall and played the oboe in the military! Wouldn't you give him an estate??" :'D
Good on you for not believing them, Manger, what with Le Roi Soleil being dead since decades and Fredersdorf not into necromancy...
Lol! Um, any chance of a typo? I could see rumors that he met Louis XV, and people speculating about the political import of that meeting.
Well that was in Fahlenkamp as well.
Argh, when will my copy come so I can read it myself and remember what's in it? :P
Again, I say, he so lucked out FW didn't recruit him as his personal oboist!
Exactly the context in which I was reporting this!
Re: Music diss
Date: 2021-03-20 02:30 pm (UTC)Otoh, her pointing out that unlike Fritz' pre 1740 friends, his Rheinsberg musicians, as much as he'd occasionally bitch about them being an unruly lot in letters to Wilhelmine, survived the transition to the King Fritz era completely is very true. But no sooner do I nod that there's a sentence like her statement that Fritz, unlike many other kings, "did not give cabinet jobs to his drinking and hunting companions". Considering she keeps quoting from Thomas Carlyle and he's bound to have included that factoid in his many volumed biography, you'd think she knew that Fritz didn't have hunting companions. ;) (Also, there's the perfect Fritz quote expressing the same basic idea ready - his explanation as to why he doesn't want to talk politics with Voltaire: "That would be like drinking tea with one's mistress."
Cutting of heads: I hear you, and agree that it's the fraternal aspect and their shared FW history that makes it special. And, I might add, the following year. There's a reason why so many biographies tend to flash forward from Bautzen (casheering) to Oranienburg (AW dying) a year later, and don't mention the long year in between. Fritz had been pissed off at Schmettau, too, but Schmettau didn't get "it's your fault if we lose this war and all die!" and "the only thing you're fit to command is a seraglio" type of letters.
Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
No. What I also can't imagine is 1730s Fritz being stupid enough to do it. :P
LOL, agreed. Also, I dimly seem to recall Fritz didn't even own Zernikow until 1737 - he bought it then, it wasn't crown property but privately owned by a Colonel something or the other.
Re: Music diss
Date: 2021-03-20 04:31 pm (UTC)"it is every unlikely that either Frederick himself or Fredersdorf were trained in playing the oboe".
*hiccup* Though I'm sure that's what they told FW!
LOL, agreed. Also, I dimly seem to recall Fritz didn't even own Zernikow until 1737 - he bought it then, it wasn't crown property but privately owned by a Colonel something or the other.
Good memory!
The Zernikow website provides the history of the estate before and after. It was chronically mismanaged and in debt through F1 and FW's reigns, and often changed its owner accordingly. Fritz bought it as Crown Prince in 1737 from the previous owner, a Lieutenant de Beville (who himself had bought it in 1731), and at first rented it to six citizens in the area. In 1740, when he ascended to the throne, he ended the contracts and gave it to Fredersdorf, who despite all his work for Fritz found time to completely reorganize the estate.
ETA:
Considering she keeps quoting from Thomas Carlyle and he's bound to have included that factoid in his many volumed biography, you'd think she knew that Fritz didn't have hunting companions. ;)
Or drinking companions. (Watered-down champagne doesn't count.) But let's be real: who reads the many volumed Carlyle biography in toto? Because I haven't, and as far as I know, you haven't. :P
But you should know that for other reasons, if your dissertation is on Fritz.