Not withstanding presenting all the longer quotes in French and translating only the shorter ones in to German
Argh on both counts! I did see that there were a lot of untranslated passages. Oddly, 1787 editor of Suhm letters is translating them from French into English, presumably on the grounds that his audience doesn't know French, but leaves lengthy odes untranslated. Poetry is the hardest, editor! I would rather read a page of 18th century history in prose in blackletter font than 4 lines of modern poetry. :P
Self: Hang on. Even leaving aside that assigning characteristics to provinces is nonsense
Omg, yes. I remember ranting about something I encountered in Tolkien scholarship in which the author was trying to distinguish between the personality traits of Bretons and Parisians on the basis of their respective climates. Argh.
Also, of course, Fredersdorf. I'll give you "down to earth", possibly, though there's the alchemy interest, but look, the guy did lead Fritz' spy ring.)
And kept a loooot of secrets from FW during the Crown Prince years.
Not Seydewitz but yours truly is tempted to speculate that Flemming is the actual father figure in Manteuffel's life.
Makes sense to me!
eydewitz: Let me make here a style critique. Manteuffel's reports and letters are informative and contain good anecdotes, but the manly to the point brevity of a Suhm is beyond him, and he even admits in a letter he tends to ramble.
Haha, well, you know which side of the divide I fall on, but also, like cahn, I like reading rambly accounts! Remember when we found the description of the two character portraits of Fritz in 1740, and Suhm's was a few pages and stated at the beginning that he was going to be very careful and stick to what he was sure of, and Manteuffel was like, "I'm going to write a book! In letter format! Whoops, FW died before I could finish it"? I laughed, and also I was like, "Suhm, why can't you ramble? I bet you have lots of good anecdotes! I would subscribe to your newsletter, to borrow a phrase from Cahn." ;)
Seydewitz: A word about bribery here. To us, accepting any money sounds skeevy, but in terms of the 18th century, Manteuffel actually shows ethics when writing to Flemming he's decided that taking money from foreign governments is cool, as long as you never fleece and rob your own, not least because he'll stick to that.
Fritz: Taking money from foreign courts is perfectly ethical as long as you double-cross them later!
Me: See, Fritz, this is why you'll always be my problematic fave. <3
More seriously, I do think it's neat that Manteuffel actually wrote this to Flemming, and stuck to it.
Guys, if you thought that way, why didn't you say so out loud? Okay, I understand, it would have been career suicide, but still. It would have been manly and noble.
It would have, but, like, Seydewitz, pray tell how many times *you* commited career suicide?
How so? Well, brace yourself. It's going to be wild ride...
Wow. You promised, and you delivered!
ETA: as far as his parents and the siblings were concerned, there seems to have been just polite respect.
Let's hope so, otherwise that condolence letter is even worse!
Oddly, 1787 editor of Suhm letters is translating them from French into English, presumably on the grounds that his audience doesn't know French, but leaves lengthy odes untranslated.
Pleschinski does that too in the main text of the Fritz/Voltaire correspondence, which since these two write poems a lot means, well, the obvious, but at least he delivers prose translations for each poem in the appendix!
Remember when we found the description of the two character portraits of Fritz in 1740, and Suhm's was a few pages and stated at the beginning that he was going to be very careful and stick to what he was sure of, and Manteuffel was like, "I'm going to write a book! In letter format! Whoops, FW died before I could finish it"?
That now looks like a typical case in point for their respective styles. Mind you, I can see why Manteuffel thinks Fritz is worth a book, not just a report, of analysis, even at this age. :) (I can also see why Brühl asked Suhm who could be trusted to deliver the freaking report on time, but then Brühl had gotten reports from Manteuffel on the Prussian court, including Fritz, for years now, so he did have some material.) Unfortunately, Seydewitz doesn't enlighten us what "Fidamire" might be alluding to, either, she just gives the title.
It would have, but, like, Seydewitz, pray tell how many times *you* commited career suicide?
My thoughts precisely. And yes, the likes of Flemming and Manteuffel aren't poor farmers who will starve if they don't have a political career, but the options for a nobleman with brains aren't actually that many at this time. There's always the military, but Manteuffel isn't a soldier, never has been and never wants to be. He can't make being a publishing scholar a full time career, because that's just not on for noblemen in his era (hence his always using pseudonyms for his translations and the occasional essay or pamphlet); even a century later, Byron will be defensive about not earning money with his writings until he goes into exile in Italy. And retiring to the estate and enjoying the agricultural life isn't everyone's thing, either; note that in rl, Manteuffel's wife did most of the estate administration and the financial investments, which she was good at and he was not. Whereas he did have a talent for career diplomacy.
That now looks like a typical case in point for their respective styles.
Exactly!
Mind you, I can see why Manteuffel thinks Fritz is worth a book, not just a report, of analysis, even at this age. :)
Oh, totally. I wish Suhm had written a book!
(I can also see why Brühl asked Suhm who could be trusted to deliver the freaking report on time
I laughed. :)
Unfortunately, Seydewitz doesn't enlighten us what "Fidamire" might be alluding to, either, she just gives the title.
Oh, darn.
Manteuffel's wife did most of the estate administration and the financial investments, which she was good at and he was not.
Interesting!
It would have, but, like, Seydewitz, pray tell how many times *you* commited career suicide?
My thoughts precisely.
There were plenty of opportunities to commit not just career suicide but actual suicide with unpopular political opinions in the upcoming 20 years!
I also meant to comment yesterday that there seem to have been quite a number of people in the immediate vicinity of absolute monarchs who decided that absolute monarchy had some flaws *cough* AW *cough* Heinrich.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
Re: Le Diable: The Political Biography - A
Date: 2021-03-13 07:34 pm (UTC)Argh on both counts! I did see that there were a lot of untranslated passages. Oddly, 1787 editor of Suhm letters is translating them from French into English, presumably on the grounds that his audience doesn't know French, but leaves lengthy odes untranslated. Poetry is the hardest, editor! I would rather read a page of 18th century history in prose in blackletter font than 4 lines of modern poetry. :P
Self: Hang on. Even leaving aside that assigning characteristics to provinces is nonsense
Omg, yes. I remember ranting about something I encountered in Tolkien scholarship in which the author was trying to distinguish between the personality traits of Bretons and Parisians on the basis of their respective climates. Argh.
Also, of course, Fredersdorf. I'll give you "down to earth", possibly, though there's the alchemy interest, but look, the guy did lead Fritz' spy ring.)
And kept a loooot of secrets from FW during the Crown Prince years.
Not Seydewitz but yours truly is tempted to speculate that Flemming is the actual father figure in Manteuffel's life.
Makes sense to me!
eydewitz: Let me make here a style critique. Manteuffel's reports and letters are informative and contain good anecdotes, but the manly to the point brevity of a Suhm is beyond him, and he even admits in a letter he tends to ramble.
Haha, well, you know which side of the divide I fall on, but also, like
Seydewitz: A word about bribery here. To us, accepting any money sounds skeevy, but in terms of the 18th century, Manteuffel actually shows ethics when writing to Flemming he's decided that taking money from foreign governments is cool, as long as you never fleece and rob your own, not least because he'll stick to that.
Fritz: Taking money from foreign courts is perfectly ethical as long as you double-cross them later!
Me: See, Fritz, this is why you'll always be my problematic fave. <3
More seriously, I do think it's neat that Manteuffel actually wrote this to Flemming, and stuck to it.
Guys, if you thought that way, why didn't you say so out loud? Okay, I understand, it would have been career suicide, but still. It would have been manly and noble.
It would have, but, like, Seydewitz, pray tell how many times *you* commited career suicide?
How so? Well, brace yourself. It's going to be wild ride...
Wow. You promised, and you delivered!
ETA: as far as his parents and the siblings were concerned, there seems to have been just polite respect.
Let's hope so, otherwise that condolence letter is even worse!
Re: Le Diable: The Political Biography - A
Date: 2021-03-14 08:54 am (UTC)Pleschinski does that too in the main text of the Fritz/Voltaire correspondence, which since these two write poems a lot means, well, the obvious, but at least he delivers prose translations for each poem in the appendix!
Remember when we found the description of the two character portraits of Fritz in 1740, and Suhm's was a few pages and stated at the beginning that he was going to be very careful and stick to what he was sure of, and Manteuffel was like, "I'm going to write a book! In letter format! Whoops, FW died before I could finish it"?
That now looks like a typical case in point for their respective styles. Mind you, I can see why Manteuffel thinks Fritz is worth a book, not just a report, of analysis, even at this age. :) (I can also see why Brühl asked Suhm who could be trusted to deliver the freaking report on time, but then Brühl had gotten reports from Manteuffel on the Prussian court, including Fritz, for years now, so he did have some material.) Unfortunately, Seydewitz doesn't enlighten us what "Fidamire" might be alluding to, either, she just gives the title.
It would have, but, like, Seydewitz, pray tell how many times *you* commited career suicide?
My thoughts precisely. And yes, the likes of Flemming and Manteuffel aren't poor farmers who will starve if they don't have a political career, but the options for a nobleman with brains aren't actually that many at this time. There's always the military, but Manteuffel isn't a soldier, never has been and never wants to be. He can't make being a publishing scholar a full time career, because that's just not on for noblemen in his era (hence his always using pseudonyms for his translations and the occasional essay or pamphlet); even a century later, Byron will be defensive about not earning money with his writings until he goes into exile in Italy. And retiring to the estate and enjoying the agricultural life isn't everyone's thing, either; note that in rl, Manteuffel's wife did most of the estate administration and the financial investments, which she was good at and he was not. Whereas he did have a talent for career diplomacy.
Re: Le Diable: The Political Biography - A
Date: 2021-03-14 01:41 pm (UTC)Exactly!
Mind you, I can see why Manteuffel thinks Fritz is worth a book, not just a report, of analysis, even at this age. :)
Oh, totally. I wish Suhm had written a book!
(I can also see why Brühl asked Suhm who could be trusted to deliver the freaking report on time
I laughed. :)
Unfortunately, Seydewitz doesn't enlighten us what "Fidamire" might be alluding to, either, she just gives the title.
Oh, darn.
Manteuffel's wife did most of the estate administration and the financial investments, which she was good at and he was not.
Interesting!
It would have, but, like, Seydewitz, pray tell how many times *you* commited career suicide?
My thoughts precisely.
There were plenty of opportunities to commit not just career suicide but actual suicide with unpopular political opinions in the upcoming 20 years!
I also meant to comment yesterday that there seem to have been quite a number of people in the immediate vicinity of absolute monarchs who decided that absolute monarchy had some flaws *cough* AW *cough* Heinrich.