cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 22 (or: Yuletide 2020 edition)

ETA: Whoops, I missed my cue -- this might as well be the next discussion post, I guess! :)

This is about the fic I didn't author (I have another reveals post for the fics I did author).

So my goal this Yuletide was NOT to write any historical fandom (because hard!) and just enjoy the excellent stuff that other people wrote. And... that sort of happened? I didn't end up authoring anything history-intensive? Buuuuut I ended up spending a lot more time than I did on any of my own fics working with

mildred_of_midgard on her fic, which she was worried about being able to pull off because she had had this completely insane idea to write a long casefic about Frederick the Great that every time I turned around had another twist put in :P :) She supplied me with what we called a "rough opal in matrix" bus pass casefic, and I cut away the matrix that remained and in some cases carved the opal -- that is to say, writing additional text for some of the scenes, what we liked to call "putting in feels," and in at least two cases entirely rewriting and/or restructuring the scene she'd written. She didn't always keep what I wrote (which we'd agreed upon in the beginning), but when she did (which was most of the time :) ) she then went in and rewrote/restructured what I put in to wordsmith (some of the words I gave her were really rough) and match her style, adding even more scenes -- that is, polishing it up and adding some gold and diamonds -- and voila, a beautiful pendant, I mean, story :)

I'm really proud of it and also it was really fun and also what I could handle this year, especially because mildred did all the parts I thought were hard and also wrote all the parts involving actual history or subtle AU before I was brought in so I didn't actually have to know historical stuff (though I guess I will never forget the battle of Leuthen now), and took full responsibility for how the whole thing turned out, so all I had to do was be like "Here, I'll write some rough feels for you for this scene!" The funny part was that I would often then write a paragraph justifying why I *had* to write the scene the way I did, and more likely than not mildred would be like, "yeah, I was sure you would do that, of course it should be written like that." (The most glaring example of this was where I inserted the Letter of Doom at the climax. I was worried there was some reason she didn't want it there, but she said, no, she just didn't have time to put it in herself and was just trusting me to do that :) ) She started jokingly calling me her "other self," to which I replied that it was with 1000% less angst and frustration -- as Frederick the Great's brother was his "other self" (which actually comes up in the fic) that he could trust to do all kinds of competent things, but they had a relationship that was, um, fraught? radioactive? Whereas this was just fun :)

Mildred did so much more than I did (we estimated a 90%/10% word ratio, not even counting the part where she wordsmithed a lot of my text) that I felt very uncomfortable being listed as a co-author, but hey, ~3000 words is a respectable Yuletide fic length :)

Yet They Grind Exceedingly Small (30384 words) by mildred_of_midgard
Chapters: 5/5
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF, Historical RPF
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Major Character Death
Relationships: Anna Amalie von Preußen & Wilhelmine von Preußen, Anna Amalie von Preußen & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen, Wilhelmine von Preußen & Elisabeth Friederike Sophie von Brandenburg-Bayreuth, Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia
Characters: Anna Amalie von Preußen (1723-1787), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758), Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802), Elisabeth Friederike Sophie von Brandenburg-Bayreuth (1732-1780), Wilhelmine von Hesse-Kassel (1726-1808), August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Alcmene 1 | Frederick the Great's Italian Greyhound, Voltaire (Writer), Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Additional Tags: Alternate Universe - Canon Divergence, Dysfunctional Family, Suicide, Alternate Universe - Dark, Siblings, Canon-Typical Violence, Mystery, Tide of History Challenge
Summary:

January 1758. Prince William is dead, some say of a broken heart. Frederick wants to absolve himself of blame for William's death. Henry schemes to end the Third Silesian War on his terms. Amalie and Wilhelmine team up to find out what really happened to their brother. Alcmene just wants to be told she's a good dog.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

cahn

I think I prefer it when the character performing the gesture has complete and undivided loyalty and love for the recipient.

Fair enough! Yes, that's really different. I actually think I'd probably be less likely to prefer it in that case, because as I said, I prefer loyalty gestures to say something in addition to the loyalty -- either commenting on a complex loyalty situation, like Amalie->Heinrich or Heinrich->Fritz, or a potentially complex situation resulting in a decision to pledge loyalty (young!Fredersdorf->Fritz). (Though that one is also the weakest id-wise for me as well; though still iddy for me, it also functioned as the most over-the-top way Fredersdorf could communicate what he wanted to Fritz.)

Is there a fic (either written by you or someone else) where this is done in a way that pushes your buttons? I mean, not for any reason. :P (And certainly not for any reason right now!)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Lol, because of reasons! :D

Okay, so the only posted fic I can think of where I did this was in Hunger Games fandom. I will spare you reading the 120,000 words (it's in the penultimate scene, of course), but here's the line in question:

Mags sits on the couch and Finnick kneels at her feet, because it's the only way his body can communicate the intensity of I will do anything for you.

The context is that she's just had her stroke and can't talk any more, and he's all HOW CAN I HELP. The two of them have a Fritz/Wilhelmine type relationship in my fic: codependent, nonsexual, but borderline emotionally incestuous. (I guess not literally incest, since they're not genetically related, but ykwim.) At the very end of the series, Finnick will retrospectively question whether this was healthy, but at this point--end of the first installment--he's all in.

Speaking of whom, I still don't know why I can't seem to warm up to Wilhelmine in this fandom. I should be right there for the intense, supportive, codependent, abuse-surviving sibling relationship! I have at least two other sibling pairs in my head that are exactly this (one is an OC that exists only in my head, the other is Boromir and Faramir). I've written two fics featuring her and read her memoirs and her bio and I *still* can't summon up any feels for her. I'm very confused. I'm trying, guys! Maybe when I get to French and read her letters it will help.

(Ditto Fritz/Fredersdorf: given my Childermass and Childermass/Norrell feels, I should be *all over* this ship. Furthermore, I recognize that as important, supportive relationships go, it's far superior objectively to all of Fritz's other relationships. But only thanks to you guys writing me fic have I advanced beyond "meh" to "Okay, yes, I want to see more of this.")

MY BRAIN I do not understand it.

I think I prefer it when the character performing the gesture has complete and undivided loyalty and love for the recipient.

Fair enough! Yes, that's really different.

Yeah, that's why I never put this gesture in the right places for you unless you tel me to. :)

Edited Date: 2021-01-16 05:03 pm (UTC)

From:

selenak

There, there. Different strokes for different people. This is me with Katte. I'm anything but immune to starcrossed lovers and noble friends sacrificing themselves for their beloved. And I've now read so much more than two years ago, including the interrogation protocols, when I kept thinking "you poor boy". I've written my very own "Katte lives!" AU. (Which, okay, is Wilhelmine-centric, but he plays an important part.) And yet...

BTW, one of the hopes I had when reading the "Zeithain" novel, which after all had been advertised as the first Katte-centric take (which it is), was to get a hand on who he was outside of his death context. In the hopes that I'd come to feel more for him beyond being sorry (and eternally angry on his behalf at FW). But alas Michael Roes distracted me too much with his Daddy issues for that, i.e. his decision to triple the number of Evil Dads by adding Hans Heinrich and the father of his OC Philip Stanhope to it.

Since you bring up "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell" - since that nearly overlaps with our era, time wise, I must say that I now want the AU where, disregarding the exact date when magic returns to England and pushing it a bit more back, the 7 Years War is fought with added magic. Seydlitz is a magician, clearly. Andrew Mitchell is, too, but doesn't have much practical talent, just enough for it to come in useful now and then, but he keeps it secret because he likes being an envoy far better than if he'd have to use his little magical talent for the government. Fredersdorf was a magician (this is how he could do so many jobs at the same time). Fritz very much wanted to be a magician, but alas, he's not (though he knows how to use them). Voltaire and Émilie: both magicians.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

I'm fine with having different strokes from you and

cahn, I just want my strokes to be consistent across fandoms, because they usually are! But Katte is my anti-ship in any other fandom (okay, the execution scene is unique and critical to the difference), and definitely Peter Keith should be a nonentity and an anti-ship for me, and yet.

BTW, one of the hopes I had when reading the "Zeithain" novel, which after all had been advertised as the first Katte-centric take (which it is), was to get a hand on who he was outside of his death context. In the hopes that I'd come to feel more for him beyond being sorry (and eternally angry on his behalf at FW).

Yeah, based on your review and what I've read (it's still on my list for when my German is slightly better!), it does seem disappointing in this regard. Alas. Thank you for your extensive research on my behalf in spite of not having deep feels! <3

Fredersdorf was a magician (this is how he could do so many jobs at the same time).

And the alchemy!

Fritz very much wanted to be a magician, but alas, he's not (though he knows how to use them).

Awww. Does he at least have a fairy servant? Magician or no, I feel like he would acquire one somehow.

Voltaire and Émilie: both magicians.

YES. YES, this.

From:

selenak

Does he at least have a fairy servant? Magician or no, I feel like he would acquire one somehow.

Oh God. This totally explains his readers. Why one of them hightails it out of Prussia (Darget), one sells him out to France (de Prades), and one fictionalizes him in order to cope with him. Clearly, what Henri de Catt was trying to do was a complicated reality warping spell to make Fritz more bearabe (to him) by literally rewriting him. It just didn't work because of leftover Fredersdorf protection spells woven around Fritz.

From:

cahn

...this... is the only version of Catt I've seen in this fandom that pleases me :P :D

It just didn't work because of leftover Fredersdorf protection spells woven around Fritz.

And this is the perfect explanation :D

From:

cahn

This is why I'm so mad at the musical for what they did with Katte, because I know if they'd even met me halfway (like, even if it wasn't shippy, just a romantic friendship) I'd have fallen hard for Katte/Fritz in a way I haven't yet quite been able to do yet (the closest I've gotten is reading "Pulvis et Umbra").

...really what I ought to do is write Katte/Fritz, I suppose. It worked for Fredersdorf! :D

omg, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell fusion is spectacular, I love it :D Of course Fredersdorf is a magician! And Voltaire and Émilie :D

From:

mildred_of_midgard

OOOH. I didn't know that you wanted to ship Fritz/Katte, nor that "Pulvis et Umbra" was the closest you came. Hmmmm!

What I'm hearing is that I should start a Fritz/Katte fic, and rope you into finishing it with me. :P

More seriously, the plan is to get my German up to speed, then read a bunch of Katte-related material, then see if I get inspired for a fic. So maybe this summer?

I've been quietly marveling that I've posted *so* *little* Fritz/Katte (and no living Katte!), but then I realize..."Pulvis et Umbra" was posted one month before my sleep went to pieces in 2019. Since then, I've only written (or at least posted) for exchanges, and nobody's requested Katte. But if I can hang onto my current momentum, hopefully I can start writing for myself at some point, and make use of my ability to read German. :D

I have pipe dreams of learning French, doing fic research in French, and then writing fic based on that research, because the fix-it fic is set in France, but...this all presupposes I maintain my momentum for that long. But we should be good for German, at least.

(Sometimes I honestly don't know whether I study history in order to write fic, or write fic in order to learn history. Now I've added language studies into the mix. Am I learning German so I can learn history? Am I learning German so I can research fic? Am I researching fic so I can acquire some knowledge of German? Am I studying history so I can acquire some knowledge of German? A little of all of the above, I think.)

From:

cahn

I mean... I kind of feel like I should ship Fritz/Katte? Since it's, like, the fandom juggernaut and all :P Don't feel compelled to make me collaborate on a Fritz/Katte fic :PP

I'm actually really surprised no one else has requested Fritz/Katte, given that all the previous fic written about Fritz in exchanges (as far as I know) was Fritz/Katte!

From:

selenak

Well, the only one other than us who requested anything in this fandom in both Yuletides was Nabielka, and none of her prompts and requests included Katte. It seems the Fritz/Katte fans from previous Yuletides were either already sated by the stories three Yuletides ago or wandered off to other fandoms?