cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 19

You're viewing

cahn's journal
Create a Dreamwidth Account Learn More

Reload page in style: site light

Yuletide nominations:

18th Century CE Federician RPF
Maria Theresia | Maria Theresa of Austria
Voltaire
Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Ernst Ahasverus von Lehndorff
Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Anna Amalie von Preußen | Anna Amalia of Prussia (1723-1787)
Catherine II of Russia
Hans Hermann von Katte
Peter Karl Christoph von Keith
Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf
August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758)

Circle of Voltaire RPF
Emilie du Chatelet
Jeanne Antoinette Poisson (Madame de Pompadour)
John Hervey (1696-1743)
Marie Louise Mignot Denis
Lady Mary Wortley-Montagu
Pierre Louis Moreau de Maupertuis
Armand de Vignerot du Plessis de Richelieu (1696-1788)
Francesco Algarotti

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

cahn

ALSO fascinating :D

when Voltaire in a letter expresses the hope of becoming her only lover, she immediately shoots that down; she always had other lovers, and he knew that, not least because some of them ended up having debts he had to help out with.

omg I have to say this is hilarious.

Historians have sugggested the young Voltaire was molested at his college by the Jesuit instructors.

You know, I think I just ignored that (and the other stuff too) because she was clearly trying to make Voltaire bisexual, and... it just really really sounded like she was trying too hard (quite a long time ago I went through a period of reading author biographies where they were arguing everyone was bi or gay; maybe some of those people actually were, but even naive trusting me found it hard to believe everyone was) and Voltaire didn't really come across like that to me anyway from what you guys were saying, even with Fritz. ~~of course, there was the additional problem with Fritz that neither of them would shut up enough to actually have sex~~

Though yeah, I didn't remember about this when you told us about the Jesuit instructors that he really liked, which I thought was awfully endearing and which I agree would falsify the hypothesis.

From:

selenak

I looked up the relevant passage in Orieux again, and here it is once more:

"I was educated for seven years by men who kept trying unceasingly to educate the mind of youth. Since when shouldn't one be grateful to one's teachers? Nothing will extinguish in my heart the memory of Father Porée, who is dear to all who have learned from him. No one has managed to make studies and virtue more charming. His lessons were marvellous hours for us, and I wish that he'd have had a position in Paris as he'd have had in ancient Athens, and that people of every age could have participated in his lessons: I'd have gone back often to listen." (...)

He wrote this in 1746, a beautiful homage to his teachers (...) They had no more devoted student, he sent them his books, he awaited their judgement full of impatience. To Father Tournenmine, he writes: "My very dear worthy Father, is it true that you like my 'Merope'?" (...)When he isn't in Paris, he sends his friend Thiériot with his latest tragedy to Father Brumoy: "In God's name, run to Father Brumoy, to the Patres who must never become my enemies. (...) Assure them of my unchanged affection, I do owe it to them, they have educated me, and one must be a monster if one isn't grateful to those who have nourished one's mind."
His father never had a right to such a proof of his gratitude - his true fathers were those who nourished his mind; the other - or others, since he declared three candidates for his biological father - not worth talking about! (...)
And how could his teachers have forgotten him? With twelve, he was already unforgettable. He didn't often play during breaks, he talked to the teachers. They tell us that he was interested in contemporary events, or, as we would put it today, "in politics". "He enjoyed putting the great interests of Europe into his small scales," Father Porée says.

Again, it's possible that Orieux, publishing in the 1960s, either censored himself or did not know some key document (after all, he and all other biographers didn't know Voltaire had reworked his 1750 to 1753 correspondance with Madame Denis, either). And yes, every abuse victim experiences it differently, and it's possible Voltaire was in denial, or blamed just one particular teacher. But given all these positive utterings at a time where he really had no need for his teachers' approval anymore - I mean, by 1747, he was the hands down most famous intellectual of Europe, with two stints in the Bastille and half a century of life time in his repertoire, not to mention a fanboy on the Prussian throne -, I really want to know what exactly this hypothesis of Zinsser's is based on.

Edited Date: 2020-10-17 10:27 am (UTC)

From:

cahn

*nods* Yeah, I suppose it's theoretically possible, but it just doesn't seem to jibe at all with what you've quoted here. Also, this is Voltaire, of all the people to let any kind of abuse just sit without attacking it, he... would not be even slightly the person I'd think of.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

of course, there was the additional problem with Fritz that neither of them would shut up enough to actually have sex

I thought we agreed they would have to settle for hand jobs, because neither of them would let the other top, and neither would shut up long enough for a blowjob. :P Which I thought was especially funny because Selena and I both *independently* came up with the idea that they wouldn't shut up long enough for oral. It's funny cause it's true!