I can't believe we're a third of the way through this book and we're still negotiating her marriage, zomg.
* The Hannovers (Guelphs) had to make permission to visit Hannover one of their conditions for accepting the throne of GB. This is ringing a bell, but I'd forgotten that. I can see why it became a point of contention.
* In 1724/1725, the Magdeburgers brought some sort of lawsuit against FW at the Imperial Court? Do you know anything more about this, selenak?
* Lol, so we already knew Seckendorff sometimes couldn't write reports the next morning because of the insane hangover from keeping up with FW the night before, and we knew he used to suck on an empty pipe at the tobacco parliament, but it was entertaining reading Oster's write-up of how "the staunch non-smoker got permission to put an empty pipe in his mouth for form's sake," and how periodically Seckendorff had to go take the waters to recover a little from the hardcore job of being the most successful envoy at FW's court. This is why I maintain that if FW had wanted sex, Seckendorff would have done whatever it took to advance the cause of Seckendorff.
Also, he lived to be 90, so I guess the lifestyle didn't ruin his health *too* much. :P
* Another minor character: Adrian Bernhard von Borcke is the father of FW2 educator Borcke.
* In July 1728, French Count Rottembourg says he has reason to believe Fritz will try running away. Now, my sources all say that he was recalled from Prussia in 1727 and stationed in Spain. So either he has contacts that are keeping him up to date, or Fritz was talking about running away even before that, or both.
* Speaking of running away...remember how on January 21, 1730 Peter got sent to Wesel and Fritz's governors got strict instructions to sleep with him every single night? And Koser said that the governor order was because FW feared Fritz trying to escape?
This is the first time I've seen evidence for that (as opposed to other types of nocturnal shenanigans) being the reason: on January 31, Oster says FW returns to Berlin, where all the envoys write reports expressing their surprise at how he's letting Fritz off with a mild scolding, in light of a recent anonymous letter FW received warning him that Fritz has escape plans. Proposed envoy reasons for this uncharacteristic behavior:
- This milder treatment is only apparent, not real. - FW's trying the carrot instead of the stick. - FW's trying to keep Fritz from encouraging Wilhelmine in her resistance to her prospective bridegrooms.
No dice on the last one, says Oster: Fritz is willing to suffer anything if it keeps Wilhelmine out of a miserable marriage! Oster will later quote the letter from Fritz to Wilhelmine saying, "Don't get married just to get me out of prison, I mean it."
Aaaand, Oster cites Fritz writing in 1730 to the Margrave of Schwedt that if he marries Wilhelmine, he'll "regret it sooner or later," the implication being when Fritz becomes king. This would fit well in a Mafia AU, along with "You know who we should kidnap, Heinrich?" :P
Poor younger sister Sophia Dorothea. :/
* SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
* I like the way Oster analyzes "But did event X in Wilhelmine's memoirs *really* happen?" every so often I've been wondering what's backed up with documentary evidence and what isn't.
1) FW wanting to marry her to August the Strong: probably not, says Oster, no external evidence, and surely SD would freak out.
2) August the Strong trying to get Wilhelmine married to Weißenfels: definitely not, says Oster.
I was not aware that Weißenfels was a possible rival to the Saxon electorate due to religion, and that this might lie behind FW's interest in getting Wilhelmine married to him. That was interesting!
3) August letting his son decide he didn't want to marry Wilhelmine: seems unlikely, says Oster.
I mean, I'm sure there would have been pressure, but not everyone is FW? Even Wilhelmine got to turn down a couple candidates (at a high price) before accepting one under duress. I'm neutral on this point, pending further evidence...
* When Ferdinand was born and SD was bedridden, FW showed favor to Wilhelmine by letting her look after 4-yo Heinrich...who at the time was his favorite? What about AW?
Friedrich Wilhelms gute Laune ging an diesem Tag sogar so weit, daß er Wilhelmine auftrug, während Sophie Dorothea im Wochen bett lag, für ihren Bruder Heinrich zu sorgen, der damals sein Liebling war.
* Huh. So I did remember that the idea of Fritz becoming governor in Hannover until FW died was proposed as part of the marriage deal, but Oster adds that the British agreed to this, only instead of giving the governorship to Fritz, they would give it to A WOMAN Amelia!
I take back what I said long ago about this marriage going better than the EC marriage.
Fritz: Franz Stephan, I am not. I'm also an expert in marital warfare even at this tender age. Bring it on.
* Also! G2 says that due to their youth, Fritz and Amelia would live in England at first. So I'm wrong, we *don't* need a successful escape AU in order to get Fritz at the British court while G2 and Caroline are accusing Wilhelmine of faking her pregnancy and FoW is trying to get her into a carriage to St. James in the presence of the brother who's perfectly willing to threaten her prospective husbands with vague but dire future consequences.
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
* Speaking of not wishing things on Wilhelmine, Oster says Melusine expressed pity for Wilhelmine as the future wife of FoW. I suppose our speculation about her being on good terms with FoW (politically, if nothing else) wouldn't rule out realizing he's not great husband material.
cahn, remember that any time you see the Duchess of Kendal, that's Katte's "aunt" Melusine, mistress of G1.
(I still can't believe that one lecturer thought she was a fictional character inspired by a Fontane novel; my copy of Zeithain has a Personenregister listing who everyone is and their dates, and she's in there!
EHRENGARD MELUSINE VON DER SCHULENBURG, Herzogin von Kendal (ab 1719), * 25.12.1667 in Emden; † 10.5.1743 in Kendal House, Isleworth bei Brentford, Mätresse von Georg I., König von England)
* Oster trusts Catt, sigh. Thanks be that you read prefaces, selenak. Otherwise, *I* would still trust Catt!
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Re: Oster Wilhelmine readthrough - marriage negotiations
Date: 2020-09-26 09:55 pm (UTC)* The Hannovers (Guelphs) had to make permission to visit Hannover one of their conditions for accepting the throne of GB. This is ringing a bell, but I'd forgotten that. I can see why it became a point of contention.
* In 1724/1725, the Magdeburgers brought some sort of lawsuit against FW at the Imperial Court? Do you know anything more about this,
* Lol, so we already knew Seckendorff sometimes couldn't write reports the next morning because of the insane hangover from keeping up with FW the night before, and we knew he used to suck on an empty pipe at the tobacco parliament, but it was entertaining reading Oster's write-up of how "the staunch non-smoker got permission to put an empty pipe in his mouth for form's sake," and how periodically Seckendorff had to go take the waters to recover a little from the hardcore job of being the most successful envoy at FW's court. This is why I maintain that if FW had wanted sex, Seckendorff would have done whatever it took to advance the cause of Seckendorff.
Also, he lived to be 90, so I guess the lifestyle didn't ruin his health *too* much. :P
* Another minor character: Adrian Bernhard von Borcke is the father of FW2 educator Borcke.
* In July 1728, French Count Rottembourg says he has reason to believe Fritz will try running away. Now, my sources all say that he was recalled from Prussia in 1727 and stationed in Spain. So either he has contacts that are keeping him up to date, or Fritz was talking about running away even before that, or both.
* Speaking of running away...remember how on January 21, 1730 Peter got sent to Wesel and Fritz's governors got strict instructions to sleep with him every single night? And Koser said that the governor order was because FW feared Fritz trying to escape?
This is the first time I've seen evidence for that (as opposed to other types of nocturnal shenanigans) being the reason: on January 31, Oster says FW returns to Berlin, where all the envoys write reports expressing their surprise at how he's letting Fritz off with a mild scolding, in light of a recent anonymous letter FW received warning him that Fritz has escape plans. Proposed envoy reasons for this uncharacteristic behavior:
- This milder treatment is only apparent, not real.
- FW's trying the carrot instead of the stick.
- FW's trying to keep Fritz from encouraging Wilhelmine in her resistance to her prospective bridegrooms.
No dice on the last one, says Oster: Fritz is willing to suffer anything if it keeps Wilhelmine out of a miserable marriage! Oster will later quote the letter from Fritz to Wilhelmine saying, "Don't get married just to get me out of prison, I mean it."
Aaaand, Oster cites Fritz writing in 1730 to the Margrave of Schwedt that if he marries Wilhelmine, he'll "regret it sooner or later," the implication being when Fritz becomes king. This would fit well in a Mafia AU, along with "You know who we should kidnap, Heinrich?" :P
Poor younger sister Sophia Dorothea. :/
* SD trying to forestall a marriage she doesn't want by arguing that Wilhelmine's too young and will reproach her parents someday if she ends up unhappily married...that's pretty brazen, considering the quote at the beginning of the book where SD is writing about two-year-old FoW asking about his future bride, aka TWO-MONTH-OLD Wilhelmine.
* I like the way Oster analyzes "But did event X in Wilhelmine's memoirs *really* happen?" every so often I've been wondering what's backed up with documentary evidence and what isn't.
1) FW wanting to marry her to August the Strong: probably not, says Oster, no external evidence, and surely SD would freak out.
2) August the Strong trying to get Wilhelmine married to Weißenfels: definitely not, says Oster.
I was not aware that Weißenfels was a possible rival to the Saxon electorate due to religion, and that this might lie behind FW's interest in getting Wilhelmine married to him. That was interesting!
3) August letting his son decide he didn't want to marry Wilhelmine: seems unlikely, says Oster.
I mean, I'm sure there would have been pressure, but not everyone is FW? Even Wilhelmine got to turn down a couple candidates (at a high price) before accepting one under duress. I'm neutral on this point, pending further evidence...
* When Ferdinand was born and SD was bedridden, FW showed favor to Wilhelmine by letting her look after 4-yo Heinrich...who at the time was his favorite? What about AW?
Friedrich Wilhelms gute Laune ging an diesem Tag sogar so weit, daß er Wilhelmine auftrug, während Sophie Dorothea im Wochen bett lag, für ihren Bruder Heinrich zu sorgen, der damals sein Liebling war.
* Huh. So I did remember that the idea of Fritz becoming governor in Hannover until FW died was proposed as part of the marriage deal, but Oster adds that the British agreed to this, only instead of giving the governorship to Fritz, they would give it to
A WOMANAmelia!I take back what I said long ago about this marriage going better than the EC marriage.
Fritz: Franz Stephan, I am not. I'm also an expert in marital warfare even at this tender age. Bring it on.
* Also! G2 says that due to their youth, Fritz and Amelia would live in England at first. So I'm wrong, we *don't* need a successful escape AU in order to get Fritz at the British court while G2 and Caroline are accusing Wilhelmine of faking her pregnancy and FoW is trying to get her into a carriage to St. James in the presence of the brother who's perfectly willing to threaten her prospective husbands with vague but dire future consequences.
I wouldn't wish such a fate on Wilhelmine, but wooow, can you imagine Lord Hervey recording how this went down??
* Speaking of not wishing things on Wilhelmine, Oster says Melusine expressed pity for Wilhelmine as the future wife of FoW. I suppose our speculation about her being on good terms with FoW (politically, if nothing else) wouldn't rule out realizing he's not great husband material.
(I still can't believe that one lecturer thought she was a fictional character inspired by a Fontane novel; my copy of Zeithain has a Personenregister listing who everyone is and their dates, and she's in there!
EHRENGARD MELUSINE VON DER SCHULENBURG, Herzogin von Kendal (ab 1719), * 25.12.1667 in Emden; † 10.5.1743 in Kendal House, Isleworth bei Brentford, Mätresse von Georg I., König von England)
* Oster trusts Catt, sigh. Thanks be that you read prefaces,