Private letter: okay, Voltaire, for now, you're somewhat of the hook.
Yep, this makes lots of sense. I'm now guessing there's been some editing out by Bisset. Didn't Bisset's James Keith never start a family because manly man totally absorbed with the military?
Indeed. Though in fairness not Bisset, it occurs to me that the Mitchell documents he presents and quotes from are all reports and letters to people at the foreign office in London. These weren't likely to contain "and then the King and I talked about what hot stuff our mutual ex Algarotti is" type of remarks.
Algarotti/Suhm: entirely possible. However, if I have to play devil's advocate: Lord Hervey and Lady Mary, as the examples of people older than himself whom Algarotti flirts with and in Hervey's case has sex with, are both in a position to do something for him. Even young Andrew Mitchell has already some good connections (to the Royal Society). Though he didn't have them when meeting Algarotti as a young man in Italy, hence it would be a safe assumption that young Andrew had a sex appeal all of his own.
Otoh: Suhm: is of a previous generation, none too healthy, small of stature, and can't do anything for Algarotti. clearly they hit it off conversationally at least, if they talked about Fritz, but would Suhm at this point been sexually attractive for Algarotti?
This isn't to say it didn't happen, and at any rate, there's far more canon than a lot of Juggernaut ships have to assume it could have! I'm just messing around.
Though in fairness not Bisset, it occurs to me that the Mitchell documents he presents and quotes from are all reports and letters to people at the foreign office in London. These weren't likely to contain "and then the King and I talked about what hot stuff our mutual ex Algarotti is" type of remarks.
Very true, and that had occurred to me.
"and then the King and I talked about what hot stuff our mutual ex Algarotti is"
But also, this totally happened, whether he wrote home about it or not. Also, Fritz made him read the orgasm poem.
Suhm: is of a previous generation, none too healthy, small of stature
This, especially the health, did occur to me. Heinrich's admirers would like to protest the short stature, though. ;) Okay, for *some* of them it was all about your next point, what he could do for them, but not for all of them. ;)
But points about age and health very well taken. Fritz had years to build up love and trust for Suhm beyond immediate attraction.
and can't do anything for Algarotti
Ah, but devil's advocate: Algarotti is a newcomer to court, he's looking for a job, Suhm has been there for three years, and Suhm has been sending Fritz copies of the Life of Prince Eugene for almost that same length of time. Clearly Suhm has *some* connections at that court. (His predecessor had been having an affair with the future regent Anna Leopoldovna.) The fact that that didn't translate to a job offer for Algarotti...well, neither did Hervey's connections!
clearly they hit it off conversationally at least, if they talked about Fritz
We don't technically know they did, but we know that Algarotti 1) showed up at Rheinsberg almost immediately after St. Petersburg (admittedly, he could have heard about Fritz from other people, including Voltaire), 2) talked with Fritz about Suhm. To me, this suggests Algarotti had met Suhm in St. Petersburg, which leads me to believe Fritz at least came up.
would Suhm at this point been sexually attractive for Algarotti?
Agreed, likely it was just conversation. Now, would Algarotti have been attractive to Suhm? Let's just say that Suhm, who was probably in no condition to act on his attraction, liked looking. :)
In contrast, Peter Keith was about 18 months older than Algarotti, of medium stature, and evidently so attractive that Lehndorff felt the need to comment on his handsome face (despite the squint!) when he was 45, 16 years older than Lehndorff. If Algarotti was willing to look past the squint, 25-yo Peter in 1736 might have been a tasty dish himself. Who knows?
In 1739, Suhm is 48 and 21 years older than Algarotti, which might be too much. Especially if he wasn't that attractive to begin with (which we simply don't know), and/or how exactly that bad health manifested.
Also, Fritz did say of Suhm at Russia, "This barbarous court needs those men who know how to drink well and fuck vigorously. I don't think you'd recognize yourself in this description. Your delicate body is the custodian of a fine soul, spiritual and penetrating."
Translation: probably not that great in bed?
We'll just say Suhm talked about literature and philosophy and his protege at Rheinsberg with stars in his eyes. ;) And Algarotti was impressed enough to go find this protege and make eyes at him himself.
This isn't to say it didn't happen, and at any rate, there's far more canon than a lot of Juggernaut ships have to assume it could have! I'm just messing around.
And I'm not wedded to it, I was just throwing it out there because it occurred to me: envoy, in the same place at the same time.
Oh LOLOLOL! I wondered if Mitchell would have criticism on that poem, since I did remember that line from his papers, and you're right! He would have corrected for historical accuracy!
The one other thing that makes me think that Suhm and Algarotti *might* have met is that when Suhm dies, Fritz writes a letter to Algarotti just to tell him about it. Now, maybe this was just because Fritz and Algarotti were in frequent correspondence at that time and Fritz needed someone to talk to, as it were, but maybe Algarotti had met him the year before in St. Petersburg, and that was why Fritz was so inclined to talk about him to Algarotti.
And then he talked about Suhm to Georgi the handsome hussar. Oh, I think it's way more plausible that they've met and at the very least liked each other - Suhm and Algarotti, that is - than that Heinrich and Algarotti had a one night stand, and I've adopted this speculation of yours, as you know. :)
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Andrew Mitchell: Secret Algarotti Boyfriend?!
Date: 2020-09-08 09:48 am (UTC)Yep, this makes lots of sense. I'm now guessing there's been some editing out by Bisset. Didn't Bisset's James Keith never start a family because manly man totally absorbed with the military?
Indeed. Though in fairness not Bisset, it occurs to me that the Mitchell documents he presents and quotes from are all reports and letters to people at the foreign office in London. These weren't likely to contain "and then the King and I talked about what hot stuff our mutual ex Algarotti is" type of remarks.
Algarotti/Suhm: entirely possible. However, if I have to play devil's advocate: Lord Hervey and Lady Mary, as the examples of people older than himself whom Algarotti flirts with and in Hervey's case has sex with, are both in a position to do something for him. Even young Andrew Mitchell has already some good connections (to the Royal Society). Though he didn't have them when meeting Algarotti as a young man in Italy, hence it would be a safe assumption that young Andrew had a sex appeal all of his own.
Otoh: Suhm: is of a previous generation, none too healthy, small of stature, and can't do anything for Algarotti. clearly they hit it off conversationally at least, if they talked about Fritz, but would Suhm at this point been sexually attractive for Algarotti?
This isn't to say it didn't happen, and at any rate, there's far more canon than a lot of Juggernaut ships have to assume it could have! I'm just messing around.
Re: Andrew Mitchell: Secret Algarotti Boyfriend?!
Date: 2020-09-08 10:39 pm (UTC)Very true, and that had occurred to me.
"and then the King and I talked about what hot stuff our mutual ex Algarotti is"
But also, this totally happened, whether he wrote home about it or not. Also, Fritz made him read the orgasm poem.
Suhm: is of a previous generation, none too healthy, small of stature
This, especially the health, did occur to me. Heinrich's admirers would like to protest the short stature, though. ;) Okay, for *some* of them it was all about your next point, what he could do for them, but not for all of them. ;)
But points about age and health very well taken. Fritz had years to build up love and trust for Suhm beyond immediate attraction.
and can't do anything for Algarotti
Ah, but devil's advocate: Algarotti is a newcomer to court, he's looking for a job, Suhm has been there for three years, and Suhm has been sending Fritz copies of the Life of Prince Eugene for almost that same length of time. Clearly Suhm has *some* connections at that court. (His predecessor had been having an affair with the future regent Anna Leopoldovna.) The fact that that didn't translate to a job offer for Algarotti...well, neither did Hervey's connections!
clearly they hit it off conversationally at least, if they talked about Fritz
We don't technically know they did, but we know that Algarotti 1) showed up at Rheinsberg almost immediately after St. Petersburg (admittedly, he could have heard about Fritz from other people, including Voltaire), 2) talked with Fritz about Suhm. To me, this suggests Algarotti had met Suhm in St. Petersburg, which leads me to believe Fritz at least came up.
would Suhm at this point been sexually attractive for Algarotti?
Agreed, likely it was just conversation. Now, would Algarotti have been attractive to Suhm? Let's just say that Suhm, who was probably in no condition to act on his attraction, liked looking. :)
In contrast, Peter Keith was about 18 months older than Algarotti, of medium stature, and evidently so attractive that Lehndorff felt the need to comment on his handsome face (despite the squint!) when he was 45, 16 years older than Lehndorff. If Algarotti was willing to look past the squint, 25-yo Peter in 1736 might have been a tasty dish himself. Who knows?
In 1739, Suhm is 48 and 21 years older than Algarotti, which might be too much. Especially if he wasn't that attractive to begin with (which we simply don't know), and/or how exactly that bad health manifested.
Also, Fritz did say of Suhm at Russia, "This barbarous court needs those men who know how to drink well and fuck vigorously. I don't think you'd recognize yourself in this description. Your delicate body is the custodian of a fine soul, spiritual and penetrating."
Translation: probably not that great in bed?
We'll just say Suhm talked about literature and philosophy and his protege at Rheinsberg with stars in his eyes. ;) And Algarotti was impressed enough to go find this protege and make eyes at him himself.
This isn't to say it didn't happen, and at any rate, there's far more canon than a lot of Juggernaut ships have to assume it could have! I'm just messing around.
And I'm not wedded to it, I was just throwing it out there because it occurred to me: envoy, in the same place at the same time.
Re: Andrew Mitchell: Secret Algarotti Boyfriend?!
Date: 2020-09-09 10:09 am (UTC)But also, this totally happened, whether he wrote home about it or not. Also, Fritz made him read the orgasm poem.
Oh God yes. Perhaps the reason why he took criticism from Mitchell on his poetry well was because Mitchell was in a position to know whereof he spoke?
Re: Andrew Mitchell: Secret Algarotti Boyfriend?!
Date: 2020-09-09 06:08 pm (UTC)Too good.
Re: Andrew Mitchell: Secret Algarotti Boyfriend?!
Date: 2020-09-10 03:04 pm (UTC)Re: Andrew Mitchell: Secret Algarotti Boyfriend?!
Date: 2020-09-11 03:38 pm (UTC)And then he talked about Suhm to Georgi the handsome hussar.Oh, I think it's way more plausible that they've met and at the very least liked each other - Suhm and Algarotti, that is - than that Heinrich and Algarotti had a one night stand, and I've adopted this speculation of yours, as you know. :)