Okay, your royal reader has now taken a gander at the Countess von Voss, née Sophie von Pannewitz book (beyond the first twenty pages, that is, which is all I originally had time to look at), and the editor really does deserve all of Gustav Volz' chiding. Misidentifying which Pannewitz lady had the honor of punching FW is no singular accident. Said editor also tells us that "the learned Thiebault", who in reality only arrived in Prussia in the later 1760s, was an eye witness to the AW/Sophie saga. We're also told AW never loved another all his life after falling for her, which even if we assume the letters to Mina aren't published yet is a large claim for someone famously promiscuous. And poor Louise, the editor tells us, was "cold" towards AW, hence him straying from the marriage bed. Good grief. Gimme our Lehndorff, who adored AW but was very clear on the fact his dear Prince of Prussia had been a lousy husband and that his wife had every reason not to mourn him as a person.
(Later, FW2's second wife is also described - not by Sophie but by the editor - as "cold" to explain all the extramarital sex, I suppose, though in FW2's case he's also described as weak, and besides the woman most dissed by both the editor and Sophie von Voss re: FW2 is Wilhelmine Encke. This appears mostly snobbery on Sophie's part; the editor calls her "pernicious" without giving any examples of her perfidy beyond "she kept her hold on FW2 long after they stopped having sex and through all the other mistresses, he kept having dinner at least twice a week with her and wanted her with him.)
I already mentioned the otherwise completely unknown death bed reconciliation between AW and Fritz according to the editor, who says it's from a letter Sophie received but does not provide the actual letter. The editor also takes it for granted the Amalie/Trenck affair happened (Trenck said so!) but includes the new detail - which I don't think is in Trenck, but maybe it's in the three volume original edition, of which I only read bits as opposed to the one volume edition I read in totem - that supposedly Amalie bribed some Austrian official with thousands of ducats so he could make MT ask for Trenck's release as part of the peace conditions. This actually would be as good an explanation as any of why MT asked for Trenck's release, but I don't know where Amalie, who was - along with everyone else - notoriously short of cash in the 7 Years War (at one point, she tells Lehndorff she only has 17 taler left in coin) - was supposed to have gotten those thousands of ducats from, and how she got a hold on an Austrian official with access to MT. Anyway, the inclusion of the Trenck saga is all the editor, who definitely is a Trenck fan, but also a Fritz fan and so assures us the "hero king" had no idea Trenck was sitting on a tombstone and chained to the wall etc, those were all overzealous Magdeburg guards, clearly.
By which you can gather there's a lot of editor text. What's quoted from Madame Voss, née Pannewitz, is firstly from a description of her life she must have written in her old age, and then from her diaries, which start in 1760, not earlier, and go until shortly before her death. The editor complains that the diaries are laconic and cautiously discreet and rarely betray her feelings, but then proceeds to give a selecton from the 7 Years War diaries that show her feelings, alright: like Lehndorff, extremely bored by poor EC, vexed by Amalie (if Lehndorff makes the "sometimes angel, sometimes fiend" distinction, Sophie von Voss just thinks Amalie is a trial and a brat), also worried about her oldest son's illness (he survives), and adoring of Mina.
Consequently, it's not a big surprise she can't stand Heinrich. (Fair, as he was horrid to Mina.) Mind you, the passages that include this fact come much, much later, in the selections from FW2's and early FW3's reign, and they are bit parts like "Prince Henry was there, whom I cannot bear" or "Prince Henry left, thank God", without explaining the reason for her aversion. The editor doesn't comment on it, either, so if you're not aware of the context already, you wouldn't know. The editor does not mention the entire Heinrich/Mina disaster at all. The royal soap opera that's detailed, after Sophie/AW, is, of course, Sophie's niece Julie/FW2. And that's where after the selection from the later 7 Years War, we get our next big selection of diaries from. (Where again, Sophie's feelings are made quite clear.)
It is hard to compare this kind of publication with the Lehndorff diaries, for all that Schmidt-Lötzen in the original first volume also in the later part of the war suddenly gives us much narrative editing text (for which we'll get the direct entries in volume 2) and then jumps through the 60s and 70s with only a few direct diary entries until Lehndorff retires, because even so, there are so many more diary entries in the original Lehndorff volume that give you an impression of both what he describes and what he himself is like. Whereas in the Voss book, there is much, much more editorializing and narrating, and it's correspondingly harder to form one's own impression of the diary writer independent from the editor.
This said, here are some more thoughts:
- our Lehndorff shows up a few times to play cards with Sophie, but not with anything said about him other than that, which is fair enough, as she shows up in his diaries only in the same capacity, except for one remark where he thinks she's still pining for AW
- The quotes from old Madame von Voss writing down her life show a radically changing relationship with her mother; as a girl, she says she feared her (and hence did not confide in her in the entire AW mess), but a few passages quoted later, shortly after her marriage, her new husband gets the small pox and her mother unhesitatingly shows up to help Sophie nurse him without fear of her own safety, and afterwards, she's Stalwart Support Mom, again lots of editing text later there's another quote from the life description about her death, where Sophie praises her for her cheerful spirit and bravery and support through the years and adds as sole criticism that in her childhood and youth maybe Mom loved Sophie's brother more, but that this changed after the marriage
- as mentioned, Sophie's criticisms of EC in the 7 Years War entries are basically identical to Lehndorff's: boring yet talking incessantly, moody outbursts (like the one at Wartensleben) at her courtiers whom she's convinced disdain her and talk about her behind her back; however, in the later quotes form the last years of Fritz' life and from the reign of FW2, EC comes across as much more sympathetically and even-tempered, and Sophie is in fact with her when she dies, holding her hand
- while there is a lot of Mina praise in the 7 Years War entries (of her beauty and charm and kindness), it's hard to get an impression of her personality from this; Sophie doesn't have Lehndorff's gift of sketching character portraits of people, let alone provide more long term running portraits
- nothing about Fritz at all beyond news from the front; if Sophie makes a connection between EC's unhappiness and him, she does not mention it anywhere (or the editor doesn't leave it in if she did)
- Sophie is an early reader of La Nouvelle Heloise and despite dutifully registering moral disapproval can't help but sympathizing with the heroine, which isn't surprising if you know what it is about
- otoh, all the moral disapproval later of every mistress of FW2's except for her niece (who is a morganatic wife) comes across as incredibly self righteous (though maybe motivated by "I resisted, you could have, too, fallen women!" ?), especially since she leaves the chiding of FW2 at "why must he be so weak?" and otherwise continues her affection for him as being nice and charming and what not
- like I said, the very few half-sentence mentions of Heinrich are solid ice but don't contain anything beyond "ugh, can't stand him". Here, too, Lehndorff has the advantage, because if he can't stand someone, he doesn't hesitate to provide us with a few gory (or just salty) details as to why, which enliven the narrative
- Sophie doesn't come across as having much of a sense of humor, though again, this might be due to the selections her editor made from her entries. Because while I sympathize when she complains about Amalie's temper, there's this one entry where she complains that Amalie's idea of a masque ball was to ask all the men to dress as women and all the women to dress as men. Sophie disapproves strongly and hates it and thinks one has to be an odious brat like Amalie to come up with such a plan. Which, if you've read Lehndorff's diaries, is just a tad disingenious, because in the early 1750s, there was already a crossdressing masque organized by none other than AW, and while Sophie in the Amalie case is sure the men must have hated every second of such an indignity, Lehndorff back in the day reports they thought it was a hoot
- Sophie is an SD fan (this, btw, did not surprise in conjunction with the above) and longs for the dignity and superior poise SD had which among the younger generation of female royals she only finds in Mina
And that's it, in terms of the people we're interested in.
My conclusions from reading your writeup: (a) your synopses are THE BEST and you are THE BEST (b) Lehndorff is a treasure, I'm so glad we have him! :)
arrrrgh the editor, okay now I simply just do not believe the story of the death bed reconciliation :P
the editor calls her "pernicious" without giving any examples of her perfidy beyond "she kept her hold on FW2 long after they stopped having sex and through all the other mistresses, he kept having dinner at least twice a week with her and wanted her with him.
?? I mean, Sophie I could understand, I guess. (*cough*Count de la Roche-Raymon, right?) but the editor??
where Sophie praises her for her cheerful spirit and bravery and support through the years and adds as sole criticism that in her childhood and youth maybe Mom loved Sophie's brother more, but that this changed after the marriage
...I can kind of see this. (I mean, as a 21st C reader, I also facepalm hard at the loving the brother more thing, but like. This is not even in the top 10 of reasons why I would hate to live in the 18th C.)
in the later quotes form the last years of Fritz' life and from the reign of FW2, EC comes across as much more sympathetically and even-tempered, and Sophie is in fact with her when she dies, holding her hand
That's really interesting, and makes me feel (even more, I guess) for EC. My headcanon from this and what you told us about the wives book is once she didn't feel so much like she had to impress everyone, she didn't magically turn into a great conversationalist but she was probably much more pleasant to be around. Also I love that detail that she was with EC holding her hand <3
- nothing about Fritz at all beyond news from the front; if Sophie makes a connection between EC's unhappiness and him, she does not mention it anywhere (or the editor doesn't leave it in if she did)
This makes me feel even more: why would anyone write her about Fritz and AW reconciling :P
like I said, the very few half-sentence mentions of Heinrich are solid ice but don't contain anything beyond "ugh, can't stand him". Here, too, Lehndorff has the advantage, because if he can't stand someone, he doesn't hesitate to provide us with a few gory (or just salty) details as to why, which enliven the narrative
hahahahaha Lehndorff is the greatest :D
and while Sophie in the Amalie case is sure the men must have hated every second of such an indignity, Lehndorff back in the day reports they thought it was a hoot
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timeasmymeasure
The Voss Recollections
Date: 2020-07-14 06:10 am (UTC)(Later, FW2's second wife is also described - not by Sophie but by the editor - as "cold" to explain all the extramarital sex, I suppose, though in FW2's case he's also described as weak, and besides the woman most dissed by both the editor and Sophie von Voss re: FW2 is Wilhelmine Encke. This appears mostly snobbery on Sophie's part; the editor calls her "pernicious" without giving any examples of her perfidy beyond "she kept her hold on FW2 long after they stopped having sex and through all the other mistresses, he kept having dinner at least twice a week with her and wanted her with him.)
I already mentioned the otherwise completely unknown death bed reconciliation between AW and Fritz according to the editor, who says it's from a letter Sophie received but does not provide the actual letter. The editor also takes it for granted the Amalie/Trenck affair happened (Trenck said so!) but includes the new detail - which I don't think is in Trenck, but maybe it's in the three volume original edition, of which I only read bits as opposed to the one volume edition I read in totem - that supposedly Amalie bribed some Austrian official with thousands of ducats so he could make MT ask for Trenck's release as part of the peace conditions. This actually would be as good an explanation as any of why MT asked for Trenck's release, but I don't know where Amalie, who was - along with everyone else - notoriously short of cash in the 7 Years War (at one point, she tells Lehndorff she only has 17 taler left in coin) - was supposed to have gotten those thousands of ducats from, and how she got a hold on an Austrian official with access to MT. Anyway, the inclusion of the Trenck saga is all the editor, who definitely is a Trenck fan, but also a Fritz fan and so assures us the "hero king" had no idea Trenck was sitting on a tombstone and chained to the wall etc, those were all overzealous Magdeburg guards, clearly.
By which you can gather there's a lot of editor text. What's quoted from Madame Voss, née Pannewitz, is firstly from a description of her life she must have written in her old age, and then from her diaries, which start in 1760, not earlier, and go until shortly before her death. The editor complains that the diaries are laconic and cautiously discreet and rarely betray her feelings, but then proceeds to give a selecton from the 7 Years War diaries that show her feelings, alright: like Lehndorff, extremely bored by poor EC, vexed by Amalie (if Lehndorff makes the "sometimes angel, sometimes fiend" distinction, Sophie von Voss just thinks Amalie is a trial and a brat), also worried about her oldest son's illness (he survives), and adoring of Mina.
Consequently, it's not a big surprise she can't stand Heinrich. (Fair, as he was horrid to Mina.) Mind you, the passages that include this fact come much, much later, in the selections from FW2's and early FW3's reign, and they are bit parts like "Prince Henry was there, whom I cannot bear" or "Prince Henry left, thank God", without explaining the reason for her aversion. The editor doesn't comment on it, either, so if you're not aware of the context already, you wouldn't know. The editor does not mention the entire Heinrich/Mina disaster at all. The royal soap opera that's detailed, after Sophie/AW, is, of course, Sophie's niece Julie/FW2. And that's where after the selection from the later 7 Years War, we get our next big selection of diaries from. (Where again, Sophie's feelings are made quite clear.)
It is hard to compare this kind of publication with the Lehndorff diaries, for all that Schmidt-Lötzen in the original first volume also in the later part of the war suddenly gives us much narrative editing text (for which we'll get the direct entries in volume 2) and then jumps through the 60s and 70s with only a few direct diary entries until Lehndorff retires, because even so, there are so many more diary entries in the original Lehndorff volume that give you an impression of both what he describes and what he himself is like. Whereas in the Voss book, there is much, much more editorializing and narrating, and it's correspondingly harder to form one's own impression of the diary writer independent from the editor.
This said, here are some more thoughts:
- our Lehndorff shows up a few times to play cards with Sophie, but not with anything said about him other than that, which is fair enough, as she shows up in his diaries only in the same capacity, except for one remark where he thinks she's still pining for AW
- The quotes from old Madame von Voss writing down her life show a radically changing relationship with her mother; as a girl, she says she feared her (and hence did not confide in her in the entire AW mess), but a few passages quoted later, shortly after her marriage, her new husband gets the small pox and her mother unhesitatingly shows up to help Sophie nurse him without fear of her own safety, and afterwards, she's Stalwart Support Mom, again lots of editing text later there's another quote from the life description about her death, where Sophie praises her for her cheerful spirit and bravery and support through the years and adds as sole criticism that in her childhood and youth maybe Mom loved Sophie's brother more, but that this changed after the marriage
- as mentioned, Sophie's criticisms of EC in the 7 Years War entries are basically identical to Lehndorff's: boring yet talking incessantly, moody outbursts (like the one at Wartensleben) at her courtiers whom she's convinced disdain her and talk about her behind her back; however, in the later quotes form the last years of Fritz' life and from the reign of FW2, EC comes across as much more sympathetically and even-tempered, and Sophie is in fact with her when she dies, holding her hand
- while there is a lot of Mina praise in the 7 Years War entries (of her beauty and charm and kindness), it's hard to get an impression of her personality from this; Sophie doesn't have Lehndorff's gift of sketching character portraits of people, let alone provide more long term running portraits
- nothing about Fritz at all beyond news from the front; if Sophie makes a connection between EC's unhappiness and him, she does not mention it anywhere (or the editor doesn't leave it in if she did)
- Sophie is an early reader of La Nouvelle Heloise and despite dutifully registering moral disapproval can't help but sympathizing with the heroine, which isn't surprising if you know what it is about
- otoh, all the moral disapproval later of every mistress of FW2's except for her niece (who is a morganatic wife) comes across as incredibly self righteous (though maybe motivated by "I resisted, you could have, too, fallen women!" ?), especially since she leaves the chiding of FW2 at "why must he be so weak?" and otherwise continues her affection for him as being nice and charming and what not
- like I said, the very few half-sentence mentions of Heinrich are solid ice but don't contain anything beyond "ugh, can't stand him". Here, too, Lehndorff has the advantage, because if he can't stand someone, he doesn't hesitate to provide us with a few gory (or just salty) details as to why, which enliven the narrative
- Sophie doesn't come across as having much of a sense of humor, though again, this might be due to the selections her editor made from her entries. Because while I sympathize when she complains about Amalie's temper, there's this one entry where she complains that Amalie's idea of a masque ball was to ask all the men to dress as women and all the women to dress as men. Sophie disapproves strongly and hates it and thinks one has to be an odious brat like Amalie to come up with such a plan. Which, if you've read Lehndorff's diaries, is just a tad disingenious, because in the early 1750s, there was already a crossdressing masque organized by none other than AW, and while Sophie in the Amalie case is sure the men must have hated every second of such an indignity, Lehndorff back in the day reports they thought it was a hoot
- Sophie is an SD fan (this, btw, did not surprise in conjunction with the above) and longs for the dignity and superior poise SD had which among the younger generation of female royals she only finds in Mina
And that's it, in terms of the people we're interested in.
Re: The Voss Recollections
Date: 2020-07-15 03:32 am (UTC)Re: The Voss Recollections
Date: 2020-07-17 02:16 pm (UTC)arrrrgh the editor, okay now I simply just do not believe the story of the death bed reconciliation :P
the editor calls her "pernicious" without giving any examples of her perfidy beyond "she kept her hold on FW2 long after they stopped having sex and through all the other mistresses, he kept having dinner at least twice a week with her and wanted her with him.
?? I mean, Sophie I could understand, I guess. (*cough*Count de la Roche-Raymon, right?) but the editor??
where Sophie praises her for her cheerful spirit and bravery and support through the years and adds as sole criticism that in her childhood and youth maybe Mom loved Sophie's brother more, but that this changed after the marriage
...I can kind of see this. (I mean, as a 21st C reader, I also facepalm hard at the loving the brother more thing, but like. This is not even in the top 10 of reasons why I would hate to live in the 18th C.)
in the later quotes form the last years of Fritz' life and from the reign of FW2, EC comes across as much more sympathetically and even-tempered, and Sophie is in fact with her when she dies, holding her hand
That's really interesting, and makes me feel (even more, I guess) for EC. My headcanon from this and what you told us about the wives book is once she didn't feel so much like she had to impress everyone, she didn't magically turn into a great conversationalist but she was probably much more pleasant to be around. Also I love that detail that she was with EC holding her hand <3
- nothing about Fritz at all beyond news from the front; if Sophie makes a connection between EC's unhappiness and him, she does not mention it anywhere (or the editor doesn't leave it in if she did)
This makes me feel even more: why would anyone write her about Fritz and AW reconciling :P
like I said, the very few half-sentence mentions of Heinrich are solid ice but don't contain anything beyond "ugh, can't stand him". Here, too, Lehndorff has the advantage, because if he can't stand someone, he doesn't hesitate to provide us with a few gory (or just salty) details as to why, which enliven the narrative
hahahahaha Lehndorff is the greatest :D
and while Sophie in the Amalie case is sure the men must have hated every second of such an indignity, Lehndorff back in the day reports they thought it was a hoot
:D