It's Fritz. Doesn't surprise me, since even decades later, Lucchesini remarks on the fact that Fritz' Horace appreciation is limited by the fact he knowly knows the odes via French translation. And it's in the odes that Horace gives enough descriptions of his villa to make people wonder where the place was from the Renaissance onwards and eventually succeed; finding it was a well documented effort since Renaissance times. In Epistles 1.10) that his villa was next to the sanctuary of the Sabine goddess, Vacuna. Lucas Holstenius (a mid-17th century geographer and a librarian at the Vatican Library) identified the sanctuary with the temple of the goddess Victory mentioned in the inscription, and he showed that the Romans associated the Sabine deity with their goddess Victoria. At a guess, this Victory goddess bit is why young King Fritz wants a Horace like villa.
Now, as you say, Cicero''s Villa is in Tusculum. Horace's is not, and was never believed to be - he gives enough markers to where it was for people to eventually find it, and Tusculum is not in (former) Sabine territory. So I'm thinking Fritz simply confused his ancient Roman villas, aided by the fact he's never been in Italy and Italian geography probably isn't high on his list of priorities early in the Silesian wars.
It's also interesting that there's the "you will not follow any orders I give in captivity" line in there. Clearly he believes that he would cave under pressure and sign orders that as a free man he wouldn't want followed, no matter what the cost to him. His experience caving in Küstrin might be informing this decision. At any rate, it's very psychologically revealing.
Oh absolutely. Küstrin is only a decade away, he hasn't been a monarch with absolute power for long, he still remembers that he's been made to submit completely (minus the argument about the predestination doctrine). (And then continue to submit in more minor ways by the very fact he had to keep on Dad's good side for the next ten years.)
long precedent for honorable exchanges of prisoners in warfare.
Not to mention that Fritz himself had Seckendorff kidnapped for the very purpose of exchanging him in just such a manner. I like the idea that a combination of inherent paranoia and a misunderstanding causing him to respond badly and thereby ruining the prisoner exchange, though.
Does Heinrich exchange Joseph for Silesia? The problem here is that unlike an exchange of prisoners, which can happen at once to both party's satisfaction, an exchange of person versus territory under duress can be nullified easily after the fact. I mean: even in Silesia 1, British advice to MT was to concede to Fritz what he wants to have for now and later when she's in a better possession point out she only did so under duress and her agreement is not worth anything. What with Fritz being the armed highwayman here. Which is sort of what she did and hence Silesia 2. So if I were Heinrich, I'd want something more than yet another "okay, you can have Silesia" which could easily be broken as soon as Joseph is back on Austrian soil.
Hmm. MT additionally offers to have the Reichstag okay a change in the order of succession for Prussia? No, not to make Heinrich King, to depose Frit and make young FW King now and acknowledge him as such through all the princes on Austria's side. This means Heinrich doesn't look like a self interested ursurper, and hey, Fritz always said he was planning to retire in favour of AW or AW's heirs anyway after the war.
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Re: Wanted: Alive or dead
Date: 2020-03-09 06:32 am (UTC)Either Fritz's memory or mine is faulty here
It's Fritz. Doesn't surprise me, since even decades later, Lucchesini remarks on the fact that Fritz' Horace appreciation is limited by the fact he knowly knows the odes via French translation. And it's in the odes that Horace gives enough descriptions of his villa to make people wonder where the place was from the Renaissance onwards and eventually succeed; finding it was a well documented effort since Renaissance times. In Epistles 1.10) that his villa was next to the sanctuary of the Sabine goddess, Vacuna. Lucas Holstenius (a mid-17th century geographer and a librarian at the Vatican Library) identified the sanctuary with the temple of the goddess Victory mentioned in the inscription, and he showed that the Romans associated the Sabine deity with their goddess Victoria. At a guess, this Victory goddess bit is why young King Fritz wants a Horace like villa.
Now, as you say, Cicero''s Villa is in Tusculum. Horace's is not, and was never believed to be - he gives enough markers to where it was for people to eventually find it, and Tusculum is not in (former) Sabine territory. So I'm thinking Fritz simply confused his ancient Roman villas, aided by the fact he's never been in Italy and Italian geography probably isn't high on his list of priorities early in the Silesian wars.
It's also interesting that there's the "you will not follow any orders I give in captivity" line in there. Clearly he believes that he would cave under pressure and sign orders that as a free man he wouldn't want followed, no matter what the cost to him. His experience caving in Küstrin might be informing this decision. At any rate, it's very psychologically revealing.
Oh absolutely. Küstrin is only a decade away, he hasn't been a monarch with absolute power for long, he still remembers that he's been made to submit completely (minus the argument about the predestination doctrine). (And then continue to submit in more minor ways by the very fact he had to keep on Dad's good side for the next ten years.)
long precedent for honorable exchanges of prisoners in warfare.
Not to mention that Fritz himself had Seckendorff kidnapped for the very purpose of exchanging him in just such a manner. I like the idea that a combination of inherent paranoia and a misunderstanding causing him to respond badly and thereby ruining the prisoner exchange, though.
Does Heinrich exchange Joseph for Silesia? The problem here is that unlike an exchange of prisoners, which can happen at once to both party's satisfaction, an exchange of person versus territory under duress can be nullified easily after the fact. I mean: even in Silesia 1, British advice to MT was to concede to Fritz what he wants to have for now and later when she's in a better possession point out she only did so under duress and her agreement is not worth anything. What with Fritz being the armed highwayman here. Which is sort of what she did and hence Silesia 2. So if I were Heinrich, I'd want something more than yet another "okay, you can have Silesia" which could easily be broken as soon as Joseph is back on Austrian soil.
Hmm. MT additionally offers to have the Reichstag okay a change in the order of succession for Prussia? No, not to make Heinrich King, to depose Frit and make young FW King now and acknowledge him as such through all the princes on Austria's side. This means Heinrich doesn't look like a self interested ursurper, and hey, Fritz always said he was planning to retire in favour of AW or AW's heirs anyway after the war.