Frederick the Great discussion post 12
Feb. 26th, 2020 09:09 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahnEvery time I am amazed and enchanted that this is still going on! Truly DW is the Earthly Paradise!
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rheinsberg :)
All the good stuff continues to be archived at
rheinsberg :)
Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-02-27 01:38 pm (UTC)Since I summed up Straight!Heinrich and Heinrich/Bentinck!shipper Lehndorff already, it won't surprise you that Fritz himself is of course also utterly heterosexual. The sole person who ever said otherwise, and I mean EVER, was Voltaire. What started Voltaire's grudge against Fritz, we may ask? Well, his scorned love for Ulrike, of course. You see, Voltaire truly fell in love with her, and Fritz firmly in his replying poem rejected this love. In no uncertain terms. And thus Voltaire took the petty, petty revenge of accusing Fritz of gayness and slandering his name ever since.
(Émilie is Madame Not Appearing Or Existing in this volume on Fritz' siblings.) (This despite the fact she shows up in the replying poem written by Fritz.)
The preface already tells us Fritz was the bestest brother ever. He indulged and spoiled his siblings like you wouldn't believe, only beeing firm when the state was at stake (AW) or the other party was being a brat (Heinrich).
Wilhelmine: her section is basically a summary with ample quotes form her memoirs and the correspondance, plus some ambassadorial reports (as from Guy Dickens about the infamous FW beating her up), so not much new there, except two poetry quotes. One is from the poem Fritz wrote to her before her death, and it is touching, and very Rokoko, and very Fritzian. It's basically: "Gods, don't take my sister from me, take my life instead! Preferably, I want us to die on the same day, and buried in the same tomb, so our dust can intermingle and we're never ever separated again." The quote from Voltaire's poem (final version) wants the inscription on her tomb to be "she has loved".
Friederike Luise & Sophie: aka the two with the horrible marriages and sinking into depression. Yeah, that. Depressing and short chapters.
Charlotte: our author's favourite. Equipped with a cheerful temper (one can see why Fritz called her a Harlequin who is great at making people laugh when talking to Mantteuffel), solid head-of-Hohenzollern loyalties (first to Dad, then to Fritz), but enough of a mind of her own to become the first family member interested in German literature; she employs one of our all time great writers, Lessing (he of "Minna von Barnhelm", "Emilia Galotti" and "Nathan the Wise" plays) as a librarian in Wolfensbüttel and does her own translation of Wolff into French. The downside of Charlotte, not counting whether or not she flirted with future Margrave as Wilhelmine accused her of having during the early 30s, is of course her ruthlessness towards her kids. Pangels admires her for sending her sons out like a Spartan mother (they're supposed to be heroic as befits a Hohenzollern or not come back at all), sympathizes with her for disowning Elisabeth, first wife of FWII, and chides Anna Amalia, who apparantly described her Hohenzollern style upbringing in her own memoirs (which I haven't read) as "loveless", hence her determination to raise Carl August (Goethe's bff) differently, as having had no sense of humor.
Ulrike: I mentioned Voltaire the scorned lover, avenging his broken heart by ruining Fritz' reputation. Otherwise, Ulrike is just too honest for own good, hence the sad fallout with son Gustav much later. Otoh, this chapter had some neat and amusing info - Ulrike and Amalie grew up in the same rooms, and Amalie who was probably the most musically gifted other than Fritz & Wilhelmine - though they all liked music - started to hammer on the piano, err, cembalo from toddlerdom onwards which drove Ulrike crazy, and even once Amalie could play, she insisted on practicising endlessly. This had the result that Ulrike became the one sib with an aversion to hearing music until well into her queendom, when listening to a cembalo made her nostalgic. Citation is letters from Ulrike to Amalie, ruefully reflecting on this.
Amalie: Pangels thinks Trenck's is probably a fantasist (remember, this book appeared in the 1970s, so before the letter from Trenck to Amalie was found), though she notes one of Trenck's daughters ended up as lady-in-waiting to Amalie. If Trenck wasn't a fantasist, Pangels thinks he was disgusting because he mentions Amalie helped him out financially in their young days right after saying they wer eeach other's first loves. Also Pangels thinks Trenck was guilty of treason, so had anything coming Fritz was dishing out.
Again, there's a new quote, to wit, one of those things Amalie said that made SD hit the roof in the final year. According to the French envoy (not Valory, his successor), Amalie's comment on the Prussia/Britain treaty in February 1756 was: "Another stroke of genius by my brother which will set the rest of Europe against us." Bearing in mind that the French envoy isn't unbiased, this still sounds like Amalie was a clever woman to me.
AW: gets off better than I had assumed from the Heinrich chapter until the 7 Years War starts. Pangels grants him a good disposition and sincere love of his older brother. If also a regrettable weakness for younger brother Heinrich. Also, new to me fact - AW was the recipient of a dog letter as well! When Biche was pregnant, Fritz wrote in her name to AW, offering him to be the godfather of the pub. What's more, he wrote this letter in German. (!!)Pangels quotes from it. I don't recall it from the Trier archive, btw - victim of algorithm? Or of Preuss' selection?
Starting with the war, the AW characterisation goes as you'd expect from the Heinrich chapter. He makes mistakes, is too proud to admit it was his fault entirely, despite the entire family urging him to reconcile with Fritz, and basically commits suicide by fighting against his doctors and having no more will to live. ("The entire family" is rich. I mean, the sisters did urge him to make the first step because Fritz is King, true. But Heinrich and Ferdinand had a decidedly different opinion.) Pangels, btw, does the same editing/distorting thing Andrew Hamilton did when quoting from Fritz' condolence letters on the subject, picking here a sentence and there a sentence to provide us with loving Fritz and incomprehensible hostile Heinrich.
Ferdinand: "knew his limits", which, I guess, yes. Came this close to being a schemer in his incomprehensible hate-on post AW's death he shared with Heinrich, but, knowing his limits, didn't do anything about other than writing bitchy letters about Big Bro in reply to Heinrich's. Pangels is again full of regret about poor, poor, Fritz, surrounded by such completely unearned vileness when all he ever did for Ferdinand was be nice to him. But probably his early opinion as voiced to Manteuffel was true after all, it's just that Ferdinand didn't have enough initiative to act on his hate. Still, seeing as he was the sole brother with a successful marriage, he must have done something right, she admits.
Extra bonus: Pangels' explanation for the "enstrangement" between EC and Fritz, to be found in the Wilhelmine chapter. Drum roll: EC was taller than Fritz. This couldn't be hid, and thus caused subconscious resentment and aversion. If not for that, they could have been happy. Because Fritz was straight, and good. As opposed to Heinrich, who was straight and bad.
...I feel like sending Eva Ziebura flowers right now. And incidentally, I do judge Pangels in a way I'm not judging Zimmermann, who just amused me. Not least because it takes more than het bias to read the Lehndorff diaries and come up with heterosexual Heinrich and exclusively heterosexual Lehndorff. It takes deliberate, intentional falsification. Good grief, woman, what possessed you - the ghost of Henri de Catt?
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-02-27 02:18 pm (UTC)I guess Pangels was worth it just for the cembalo anecdote, that was *so* adorable.
it won't surprise you that Fritz himself is of course also utterly heterosexual.
I expect nothing less!
Fritz firmly in his replying poem rejected this love. In no uncertain terms.
The best part of this, having read the poem exchange in question, is that Fritz rejected this love in the no uncertain terms of "Forget about my sister! What's she got that I don't? Write me more love poetry, Voltaire! Freaking Émilie."
It's basically: "Gods, don't take my sister from me, take my life instead! Preferably, I want us to die on the same day, and buried in the same tomb, so our dust can intermingle and we're never ever separated again."
Oh, wow. Definitely worth a whole Fritz boot-licking sibling-hating book.
When Biche was pregnant, Fritz wrote in her name to AW, offering him to be the godfather of the pub. What's more, he wrote this letter in German. (!!)Pangels quotes from it. I don't recall it from the Trier archive, btw - victim of algorithm? Or of Preuss' selection?
Preuss, as far as I can tell. Does Pangels give a date? I can double check.
chides Anna Amalia, who apparantly described her Hohenzollern style upbringing in her own memoirs (which I haven't read) as "loveless", hence her determination to raise Carl August (Goethe's bff) differently, as having had no sense of humor.
Ms. Pangels, I feel sorry for your kids, if you have any.
he must have done something right, she admits.
Like be taller than his wife?
Drum roll: EC was taller than Fritz.
*spittake*
Good grief, woman, what possessed you - the ghost of Henri de Catt?
HAHAHA. Well, we hear Catt may have had it in for Heinrich, so maybe! Catt is infinitely more critical of Fritz in the memoirs, though, and "endlessly chill and forgiving" does not describe his Fritz. Ghost of Wilhelmine would have done some of this, but hardly all of it...ghost of SD? Who probably knew all about being taller than her husband? (Was she? Please tell me she was, that would be so awesome.)
Tangentially, I read a few more pages of Asprey, and I spoke too soon in my last write-up. Now that Fritz is king, it's time to talk about how important it was to make Prussia a great European power, because the alternative was continuing to wallow in Austrian humiliation, and how great it was that Fritz learned all these important lessons from Machiavelli so he could live up to his awesome destiny of making Prussia great (for the first time) that his dad had failed so badly at.
Look, Asprey, I'm willing to read about Fritz the great military and even political genius. I realize that this was the dominant narrative of your day. But when you start getting on board with his *program* rather than just his skill, in 1986, I start to ask myself...if you can't do facts (Koser, Preuss) and you can't do opinions (Blanning), what can you do? Lively similes about backward worms and demented insurance salesmen? Okay, I will keep dipping my toes in for that, but don't expect a glowing report in that annotated bibliography that
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-02-27 02:56 pm (UTC)The best part of this, having read the poem exchange in question, is that Fritz rejected this love in the no uncertain terms of "Forget about my sister! What's she got that I don't? Write me more love poetry, Voltaire! Freaking Émilie."
I know. But then, she who can read entries like "January 7th: Grand cour at the Queen's. I stay but a moment and then withdraw with my dear H. How much I enjoy being alone with him! What little reason I have leaves me entirely as soon as this dear creature captivates me. Why is man so weak! Without this passion, I could live as a philosopher. I spend a charming evening with him. We read. This pleasure gets interrupted by the arrival of young Lb (Lamberg?). But as I come with my dear H, I manage to be alone with him again" as translating into "Lehndorff really ships Heinrich/Bentinck and is into Heinrich confiding in him about that affair" can easily turn that poem into, well, what she did.
Preuss, as far as I can tell. Does Pangels give a date? I can double check.
Yes. Fritz' letter: May 1749. AW's letter of reply is dated Spandau, 27th May 1749.
Ferdinand has given me the letter in which Biche invites me to be godfather to her pub. I accept this offer gladly. I do not dare to say "Who loves the master, loves the dog" in order not to look like Sancho Pansa, who talks in sayings. But you can guess that I'm regarding it as an honor to become a family member to Biche. Loyalty and affection, so rare with humans, are so much shared among her kind that it shames all who do not have these qualities. Yes, there is nothing in this world from which one can't draw a useful moral! Biche alone would provide material for several volumes of it. May her descendants inherit all her good qualities, and may she, after rising from her puerperium, continue to give you examples of her loyalty. Having thus sung Biche's praise, I remain....
The poem to Wilhelmine
If fortune which rules us without bending
demands a bloody sacrifice - then, you gods,
illuminate its judgment thus
that its choice falls solely on me.
Then I will be obedient and without complaint
await the inevitable death
turning his steps from my sister
using his scythe on me.
But if the favor I am asking for
is too high to be granted to a mortal,
oh my gods! Then grant me this
that we both on the same day
descend to those plains which are surrounded by laurels
and cypresses, to that stay of eternal peace
with one grave enclosing our intermingling dust.
That's the poem he's showing Catt in the diary and memoirs both and sending to Voltaire when demanding immortal poetry in return.
ghost of SD? Who probably knew all about being taller than her husband? (Was she? Please tell me she was, that would be so awesome.)
I honestly have no idea. It would be great! The sole problem with the ghost of SD is that SD herself doesn't come across too well in the Wilhelmine section of the book. Not just via quotes from the memoirs, Pangels also gives us SD's letters after the fateful lunch with MT happened. (Told you about that.) You do have a point about Catt's Fritz not being eternally chill, though. How about Zimmermann's ghost then?
Asprey: if I read Pangels for the occasional good quote, you can read Asprey for the occasional good simile, I suppose, but... yeah.
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-02-27 04:58 pm (UTC)Preuss has nothing from May 1749 at all. Phew, it's not the algorithm!
ghost of SD? Who probably knew all about being taller than her husband? (Was she? Please tell me she was, that would be so awesome.)
I honestly have no idea. It would be great!
Headcanon until proven otherwise! She was Olympia, after all...
The sole problem with the ghost of SD is that SD herself doesn't come across too well in the Wilhelmine section of the book.
Hmm, that is a problem. Zimmermann it is!
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-02-27 05:47 pm (UTC)As I recall, one of his dogs, Diane, later wrote a poem to FW2's wife, asking her to be the godmother and also suggesting she follow the doggy example by kicking out some pups of her own soon.
Fritz: Look, I don't have kids for my family to stand as godparents to, I have dogs. It's an even bigger honor, I promise. :P
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-02-27 06:00 pm (UTC)Pangels also offers a great new Elisabeth factoid: when one of Ferdinand's daughters saw her later in life and was ultra embarassed what to say, Elisabeth cheerfully said to said daughter's companion, a Schulenburg, that the last time she'd seen him was when he was escorting her to Küstrin, and how was he? Absolutely no remorse or shame displayed. Good for her.
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-02-27 07:07 pm (UTC)Absolutely no remorse or shame displayed. Good for her.
Good for her!
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-03-01 06:38 am (UTC)I suspect favored courtiers and/or military types and/or the younger generations of Hohenzollerns were given them - AW's kids, Ferdinand's kids, Madame Camas whom Fritz and his siblings venerated, young Adelaide Keyserlingk as a wedding present - those kind of accasions. And then later also the great nieces and nephews.
Fritz: There's still one puppy which needs a good home and above all a royal staff ready to care for it. Hm, whom to choose?
Podewils: Rather than sending your portrait to Vienna, maybe your majesty should consider presenting her Austrian majesty with a dog?
Fritz: NO.
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-03-01 02:51 pm (UTC)He should have presented Joseph with a puppy at Neisse, though. That would have been a nice touch.
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-03-02 04:57 pm (UTC)*chokes*
" Preferably, I want us to die on the same day, and buried in the same tomb, so our dust can intermingle and we're never ever separated again."
That is touching and rococo and Fritzian, and one of the Fritzian things about it is that I'm as usual like "...that was one orientation and two sex drives away from being a terrible scandal, wasn't it."
"Another stroke of genius by my brother which will set the rest of Europe against us."
Yeah, that sounds pretty clever to me too. Poor Amalie. (Poor women in 18thC, including Everyone In Your Comment.)
OK, remind me, is Charlotte the one who had the daughter who was shockingly actually a good mom?
AW was the recipient of a dog letter as well!
Awwww!
his incomprehensible hate-on post AW's death he shared with Heinrich
*headdesk*
Drum roll: EC was taller than Fritz.
I... wow... I am sort of inarticulately flailing with wrongness over here :P
...I feel like sending Eva Ziebura flowers right now.
Can we send her fan mail, at least? Although I suppose fanmail from mildred and me might not be wholly appreciated -- "we can't actually read your writing but we LOVE IT AND YOU ARE AWESOME!!"
Re: Pangels in Wonderland
Date: 2020-03-02 05:03 pm (UTC)Yup. Every time I imagine a het Fritz and two people who enjoy sex, I'm like..."I see almost no way to a non-incestuous scenario here."
Although I suppose fanmail from mildred and me might not be wholly appreciated -- "we can't actually read your writing but we LOVE IT AND YOU ARE AWESOME!!"
I don't know, that might be extra appreciated! :P After all, it's the content, not the style that we're all appreciating.
Certainly