Frederick the Great discussion post 11

[cahn]

In our last installment, our heroes found that Henri de Catt's memoirs, a major source for current biographers of Frederick the Great, are not to be trusted!!

rheinsberg

Comments

Re: Saxon envoys

[selenak]

Not if he doesn't want to get replaced as envoy (see above).

I should say that most of the Fritz and Mitchell conversations reported in the dispatches and the journal are on military matters. Conversations like that about Fritz' youth are the exceptions, not the rule. Which is why Mitchell never was treasured a source as Henri de Catt was. But they really seem to have gotten along well, even after Fritz went off the Brits for not giving him money anymore. Also, it amuses me that all the English sources mention Fritz crying at his funeral as a big deal. I mean, for Victorian and current day British men, sure, but not for Rokoko guys. Fritz: crying over poetry and proud of it. Also not an exception in this. (This being said, the fact he went to the funeral, which he surely didn't do for cousin G3's sake, says a lot.)

Our Lehndorff, as mentioned elsewhere, likes Mitchell very much, too. In the second volume (aka all the bits 1906 editor cut out from the first), Mitchell shows up a lot, not just the two times he's mentioned in the first volume, and typical entries go:

I had the urgent wish to make friends with Mr. Mitchell, the English envoy. His personality, his conversation, his natural manners agree with me, but I let the first six weeks of his being here pass in order to give him time to settle in. Now I start to socialize with him, and I observe he seems to be receptive to the friendship I show him.

Remember, though, end of 1755/ first half of 1756 is Lehndorff's time with Hotham, learning English and hoping to make it across the pond. Two days later:

I participate in a nice dinner organized by Count Finck. Another guest is Mr. Mitchell who wins himself more and more friend with his integrity and sense of justice.

And just a few days before the famous Marwitz entry: From there, I go to my friend Mitchell, who has arrived from Dresden as well. (As well as Heinrich, whom Lehndorff naturally visited first.) He is as pleased to see me as I am to embrace him. He is a true Englishman* with all the virtues of this nation. It seems that he's fed up with the war he's currently experiencing at the King's side and would be glad to resume his work as ambassador in quiet Berlin.

We're still in 1756, mind. Seven more years to go. But Mitchell stays "my friend Mitchell". Before you ask, no, Lehndorff isn't mentioned in the dispatches and journal excerpts selected by Bisset. Which isn't surprising. It's 1850, no one knows who Lehndorff was, and even if they did, they'd hardly care about the Queen's chamberlain. Bisset's selection of Mitchell's papers is focused on the 7 Years War as the era of most interest to his British readers; there are only a few documents from the peace time aftewards (though Mitchell continued to live in Berlin until his death in the 1770s), because, says Bisset, a diplomat's work in peace time is boring to the reader.

*He's a Scot from Aberdeen, Lehndorff! I hope you didn't praise his Englishness too much in front of him.

Re: Saxon envoys

[mildred_of_midgard]

Thank you for the Lehndorff excerpts. Connecting the dots and seeing the same events from different perspectives is one of the best parts of this fandom.

a diplomat's work in peace time is boring to the reader.

Readers of 1730 diplomats might disagree. :P

He's a Scot from Aberdeen, Lehndorff! I hope you didn't praise his Englishness too much in front of him.

Oh, boy. Scottish national identity was actually quite complicated in 1756! Chronology for cahn:

[Disclaimer: these are broad outlines; simplifications have been made.]

The biggest of the Jacobite rebellions, where a bunch of Stuart supporters, mostly but not exclusively Scottish, had tried to overthrow the King*, happened in 1745. The Jacobites had been crushingly defeated, and I mean crushingly. Markers of Scottish identity such as the kilt were banned, illegal to wear except in the British army. Scottishness was on the outs with the people in power. Plus, Charles Stuart was still wandering around Europe trying to drum up foreign support for another invasion. He wasn't getting much support ("lol" was the general reaction), but the Hanovers still had to keep half an eye on the situation.

* King George II, SD's brother, whose kids she wanted Fritz and Wilhelmine to marry.

The Scots themselves had been divided during the rebellion itself. Though most of Charles's support was Scottish, that doesn't mean most Scots supported him. There was significant overlap between his support and the Catholics (though that's been overstated). There was a large population of Scots that opposed him, and a nontrivial population of Scots who had actively fought in the British army against the Jacobites.

There was also a long-standing division between Highlanders and Lowlanders. Much of Charles Stuart's support came from the Highlanders, and more importantly, after the fact, the alignment between his supporters and Highlanders became overstated compared to what it had been in reality. Much of the governmental reprisal was aimed at Highlanders, not at Scots. However, the Lowlands, having had much more historical contact with England, especially along the borders, also had a flourishing anti-English tradition. But at the same time, with the English dominant and the Highlands being crushed, you get people deciding that "climb the ladder and pull it up after you" is the way to go, i.e. identify with the more powerful English and let the Scots go hang.

Come 1756, with a political situation like that, nationalist reactions are pretty much as you'd expect. You've got the people who are seething with resentment, the people who are willing to compromise with the powers that be, and people who are seeking to distance themselves from their Scottishness as much as possible. A lot of Scots, when traveling outside of Scotland, used the existing term "North Britain" to talk about where they were from. Like Americans who say they're from Canada when they're traveling.

Some decades later, after the Jacobite threat is gone and the Highlands have undergone massive depopulation (DON'T ASK), in the nineteenth century, romanticizing Scottishness becomes safe. The monarchs get into it and start emphasizing their Scottish heritage, our current clan tartans become a thing, and pretty much everything you think of when you think of Scotland today, including the Scottish tourist industry, becomes a thing.

In conclusion, some Scots in 1756 would have been quite happy to have their Englishness praised by Lehndorff. Some (hopefully not diplomats) would have punched him. :P

Mitchell is an interesting case, if he's a Lowlander, good friends with Jacobite James Keith, and working as an ambassador for the Hanoverian government. selenak, did you get a sense of how he feels about his Scottishness?

Bit of trivia for cahn, but DON'T ask me about the Jacobites: the guy who defeated them and kicked off a war-crime-ridden give-no-quarter "created a desert and called it peace" policy against the Highlands was the Duke of Cumberland, the son of G2 whom Fritz thought sucked as a general (and my impression from what I remember of his Continental battles is that he did; beating the Jacobites (DON'T ASK) was not a testament to any kind of tactical prowess). :P

Tangentially: 17th Century Scots in identity crisis

[selenak]

Re: Mitchell, Bisset says he was a dedicated Whig, which appears to be true as far as it goes, but then a) Bisset himself is one (remember, he snarks that ALL the Stuarts were worthless and never did anything making them worth fighting for other than tracing themselves back to Robert the Bruce), and b) most of those letters quoted in the two volumes are adressed to his English bosses whom he wants to be trusted by. He does quote Fritz' disdain for Cumberland with a certain dedication, though always without comments. ;)

This reminds me that Boswell, a generation younger, when being in London for a year at age 19 in 1762, i.e. only a few years later, who like Mitchell is a Lowland Scot, is eternally torn on this subject as well. On the one hand, he loves London, and tries all his life to make it his home, being depressed whenever he has to settle for Edinburgh. He is apologetic about being Scottish during that famous first meeting with Dr. Johnson, who had an anti-Scottish bias as a lot of English people did at the time, hence that first exchange: “Indeed I am from Scotland, but I cannot help it” “That, Sir, is what I find a great many of your countrymen cannot help”. And Boswell was absolutely and completely in love with London in particular and the idea of English greatness in general. But every now and then, English disdain for Scots was just too much for him, and we get scenes like this one in his diary:

Wednesday 8 December 1762: At night I went to Covent Gardin and saw Love in a Village, a new comic opera, for the first night. I liked it very much. I saw it from the gallery, but I was first in the pit. Just before the overture began to be played, two Highland officers came in. The mob in the upper gallery roared out, “No Scots! No Scots! Out with them!”, hissed and pelted them with apples. My heart warmed to my countrymen, my Scotch blood boiled with indignation. I jumped up on the benches, roared out, “Damn you, rascals!” hissed and was in the greatest rage. I am very sure at that time I should have been the most distinguished of heroes. I hated the English; I wished from my soul the Union was broke and that we might give them another battle of Bannockburn. I went close to the officers and asked them of what regiment they were of. They told me Lord John Murray’s, and that they were just come from the Havana. “And this,” said they, “is the thanks that we get – to be hissed when we come home. If it was French, what could they do worse?”

Boswell at 30 is similarly torn:

“Ogilvie then said Scotland had a great many noble wild prospects. “Sir,” said Johnson, “I believe you have a great many noble wild prospects. Norway too has some noble wild prospects; and Lapland is remarkable for prodigious noble wild prospects. But, Sir, I believe the noblest prospect that a Scotsman ever sees is the road which leads him to England!”
We gave a roar of applause to this most excellent sally of strong humour. At the same time, I could not help thinking that Mr. Johnson showed a want of taste in laughing at the wild grandeur of nature. (…) Have I not experienced the full force of this when gazing at thee, O Arthur Seat, thou venerable mountain! Whether in the severity of winter thy brow has been covered with snow or wrapped in mist; or in the gentle mildness of summer the evening sun has shone upon thy verdant sides diversified with rugged moss-clad rocks. Beloved hill, the admiration of my youth! Thy noble image shall ever fill my mind!”

Given Boswell's father and Mitchell were friends, I venture to guess these mixed feelings might have been found in Mitchell as well.

Re: Tangentially: 17th Century Scots in identity crisis

[cahn]

:D This is great. (I've never read Boswell, despite seeing the great posts about him in your DW. One day!)