Frederick the Great discussion post 9
Jan. 13th, 2020 09:09 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahn...I leave you guys alone for one weekend and it's time for a new Fritz post, lol!
I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)
Frederick the Great links
I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)
Frederick the Great links
Re: Fritz and Wilhelmine Correspondance, Trier Version IV - More Things Between Heaven and Earth...
Date: 2020-01-21 08:57 pm (UTC)Truly. I see I missed a trick in my Yuletide Madness fluff - because you just know Fritz would have a pseudonymous RPF writers account. (Though the fact he uses this ID to follow Voltaire at his blog and argues in the comments kind of gives it away.)
Re: Fritz and Wilhelmine Correspondance, Trier Version IV - More Things Between Heaven and Earth...
Date: 2020-01-21 10:45 pm (UTC)Re: Fritz and Wilhelmine Correspondance, Trier Version IV - More Things Between Heaven and Earth...
Date: 2020-01-23 06:04 am (UTC)The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel
Date: 2020-01-24 10:48 am (UTC)FrankfurtHans: You checked out the comments, didn't you.
F2: I checked out the comments.
FrankfurtHans: Just tell me you didn't link anything that could lead to me. I mean, I live in a free city outside of Prussian territory, but that's never stopped anyone before.
F2: Hey, what do you take me for? No way. It's just... See, when I posted my historical Fritz/Katte AU, I went and checked out the competition. As you do. And in the "Prussian Royalty and Friends RPF" section, there was this guy who had put up some really weird poetry. I mean, the language and metaphors were pretty blah, but it was all RPF. One about what's his name, the Italian has-been, and the other, get this, about how the King's former lector Darget got buggered into gayness. Pretty gross.
FrankfurtHans: Imagine my eyeroll. Look, I've written some explicit stuff myself. It's fine that you don't want to, but some of us dig it.
F2: Thanks for the condescension. Way beside the point. I've read your explicit stuff, if you must know. If you think that poem about how you can't understand Greek and Roman art without having lots of sex is going to cut it... anyway. So this poetry guy has a handle. "Alcibiades", I kid you not. And in addition to the poetry, he's also written some prose RPF about Prince Heinrich and some page. We're talking real names here, man, not AU like me. Some novel called "Henri and the Beautiful Marwitz: An Education for Today's Youth".
FrankfurtHans: I don't get it. I mean, I'm all for fleshing outo supporting characters, but if you are mad enough to write RPF about one of the Hohenzollern using their real names, why Heinrich ? I've seen pictures.
F2: Sometimes I wonder about you, FrankfurtHans.
FranfurtHans: What pleases is permitted. (Erlaubt is, was gefällt.)
F2: If you say so. Aaaaanyway. You know how I'm about to invent the mystery genre for German literature? My sense of said mystery tingled. I thought: who does that? Also, the "Alcibiades" handle sounded familiar, and not from the last time I've read Plato. So I went back to the Ferney_Philosophe blog, and sure enough, some user named Alcibiades is by far the most frequent commenter. Despite being banned by the moderator a couple of times. Though for some reason they keep readmiting him. At that point I smelled a rotten apple.
FrankfurtHans: Are you thinking what I'm thinking...?
F2: Well, if there's another conclusion, I'd like to hear it. And now I'm thinking of taking down my own RPF, because I'm just not cool with all that fourth wall breaking. I like my royals fictional. Or constitutionally fenced in. You-know-who is neither.
FrankfurtHans: Firstly, no way you're taking down that play. It's a masterpiece. And I spent about a million hours beta-reading it. Secondly, for someone who's about to invent the German mystery genre, you're missing one big logical point.
F2: Which is?
FrankfurtHans: You're writing in German. Which means you're totally safe. He's never going to read a single line of your stuff.
F2: ....You know what, you're right. Phew. Okay, gotta go now, duty calls. I can't wait till I'm out of Würtemberg for good!
*F2 has left the Chat*
FrankfurtHans: *uploads "Shakespeare Rocks" Manifesto, "The German Novel: A Primer" Manifesto, "French Drama: Ancient and Outdated" Manifesto* , *German Poetry: A Model of Our Own* Manifesto*
FrankfurtHans: *attaches uploads to email*
FrankfurtHans: *writes Email to FanfictionWriter "Alcibiades": Dear Alcibiades, congrats on the originality of your RPF. Anyone can write about the top dogs; way to go for the bottoms! I'm a fan. However, you might want to branch out, in the interest of reaching a wider readership. Seriously, most users these days just aren't that into French anymore. See documents attached. Hopefully, we'll read your first German story or poem soon! Yours, FrankfurtHans*
FrankfurtHans: *hits *send*
Re: The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel
Date: 2020-01-24 05:04 pm (UTC)I mean, I live in a free city outside of Prussian territory, but that's never stopped anyone before.
One about what's his name, the Italian has-been
Oh nooo! Awww, poor Algarotti, doomed to being an obscure footnote in the stories of Fritz and Voltaire/Émilie. I love how you worked that in. I love you worked SO MANY things in.
Some novel called "Henri and the Beautiful Marwitz: An Education for Today's Youth".
AHAHAHAHAAA
OH FRITZ
Still waiting for this manuscript to turn up.why Heinrich ? I've seen pictures.
F2: Sometimes I wonder about you, FrankfurtHans.
Lehndorff, who hopefully doesn't follow this, would beg to differ. :P This is SO GREAT.
I like my royals fictional. Or constitutionally fenced in. You-know-who is neither.
With you on that, F2. I like mine 200+ years dead and mostly fictional. :P
You're writing in German. Which means you're totally safe. He's never going to read a single line of your stuff.
LOL FOREVER
FrankfurtHans: *uploads "Shakespeare Rocks" Manifesto, "The German Novel: A Primer" Manifesto, "French Drama: Ancient and Outdated" Manifesto* , *German Poetry: A Model of Our Own* Manifesto*
O.M.G. Way to have your friend's back! (And I do mean that literally and not sarcastically: this is a guaranteed way to ensure complete safety of all German literature from Fritz's, I mean Alcibiades', eyes.)
"French Drama: Ancient and Outdated" Manifesto*"
The only thing that comes to mind is "Them's fightin' words."
Also, the Alcibiades to Voltaire's Socrates, that was another total gem.
Okay, I *really* need to get back to Heinrich correspondence--getting closer!--but then I will go catch up on comments.
Re: The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel
Date: 2020-01-24 09:48 pm (UTC)Hee, true! *sparkly hearts*
O.M.G. Way to have your friend's back! (And I do mean that literally and not sarcastically: this is a guaranteed way to ensure complete safety of all German literature from Fritz's, I mean Alcibiades', eyes.)
:D Hee!
Re: The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel
Date: 2020-01-24 09:46 pm (UTC)FrankfurtHans: You checked out the comments, didn't you.
F2: I checked out the comments.
HAHAHAHAHA
One about what's his name, the Italian has-been
Heeeeeee this made me laugh
Look, I've written some explicit stuff myself. It's fine that you don't want to, but some of us dig it.
All these guys really map way too well on fandom, don't they?
If you think that poem about how you can't understand Greek and Roman art without having lots of sex is going to cut it
Gossipy sensationalisticInquiring but sadly not-literate-enough minds want to know!why Heinrich ? I've seen pictures.
HAHAHAHAHA this was my favorite line!
some user named Alcibiades is by far the most frequent commenter. Despite being banned by the moderator a couple of times. Though for some reason they keep readmiting him.
Heeeeeee! This is sooooo hilarious <3
Hopefully, we'll read your first German story or poem soon! Yours, FrankfurtHans*
FrankfurtHans: *hits *send*
Alcibiades: *spams Twitter, AO3 meta, and all other social media platforms with resulting rant* :D
Re: The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel
Date: 2020-01-24 09:53 pm (UTC)OMG, I meant to quote this one too and forgot! I had to stop reading, I laughed so hard.
You know, this is an excellent time to bring up Aristophanes' line in the Frogs about Athens' relationship with historical Alcibiades: "She longs for him, but hates him, and yet she wants him back."
Fritz and Voltaire much?
Athens: for some reason they keep readmitting Alcibiades. :P
Re: The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel - the literary footnotes
Date: 2020-01-25 04:22 am (UTC)Well, you asked! That was a silly allusion to the most famous of the „Roman Elegies“, aka the series of (erotic) poems Goethe wrote in the aftermath of his journey to Italy to the great scandal of Weimar when he returned. (See my Carl August and Goethe write up reposted at Rheinsberg.)
Roman Elegy V
I feel I’m happily inspired now on Classical soil:
The Past and Present speak louder, more charmingly.
Here, as advised, I leaf through the works of the Ancients
With busy hands, and, each day, with fresh delight.
But at night Love keeps me busy another way:
I become half a scholar but twice as contented.
And am I not learning, studying the shape
Of her lovely breasts: her hips guiding my hand?
Then I know marble more: thinking, comparing,
See with a feeling eye: feel with a seeing hand.
If my darling is stealing the day’s hours from me,
She gives me hours of night in compensation.
We’re not always kissing: we often talk sense:
When she’s asleep, I lie there filled with thought.
Often I’ve even made poetry there in her arms,
Counted hexameters gently there on my fingers
Over her body. She breathes in sweetest sleep,
And her breath burns down to my deepest heart.
Amor trims the lamp then and thinks of the times
When he did the same for his three poets of love.
(Translation not mine but from this site which also has further context and a good portrait of Goethe by Angelika Kauffmann: http://thaumazein-albert.blogspot.com/2010/10/goethe-roman-elegy-v.html )
Incidentally, the manifestos have all some actual Goethe equivalent, too; He didn‘t just make one but several „Shakespeare Rocks“ speeches as a young man - remember, this wasn‘t yet a standard take in a culture majorly inflluenced by the French model , this was the very point where it shifted towards good old Will instead) , he wrote an article about what a future German novel could be like before writing Werther, and years later, when Germaine de Stael came to Weimar, he had this exchange with her:
Madame de Stael: I think German verse feels clumsy.
Goethe: I think French verse feels like tapeworm
(It should be added that Goethe was anything but nationalistic and actually quite fond of French and French literature, starting with his boyhood when Frankfurt, during the wars that someone kept starting in Central Europe, was at times occupied by the French and the Goethes had a French officer living in their house who however was polite and got along with the kids - Goethe and his sister Cornelia - very well. Goethe lived in to the nationalistic 19th century and was not a little appalled when post Napoleonic Wars everyone started to become more and more nationalistic in the German states. Which was when he put on the medal Napoleon had given him to the consternation of many a visitor to Germany‘s Greatest Poet (tm) and said „why should I scorn the French? I was educated in their language, and it and their literature have always given me great pleasure“. But that was in the last decade of his life, in a world so very different from his youth when abandoning the rules of classic French Drama in favour of Shakespearan free for all and writing poetry that didn‘t draw on French examples anymore had felt incredibly liberating.)
...but mainly this was my trying to find something to get the social media equivalant of „De La Literature Allemande“ out of Alcibiades. ;)
The „I smelled a rotten apple“ otoh was a Schiller joke. Supposedly Schiller kept some rotten apples at hand because the smell helped him concentrating.
„Erlaubt ist, was gefällt“ - from Goethe‘s play „Torquato Tasso“. This is actually what the characters in the scene argue about.
ETA: Was only just reminded of this again when googling whether I can find more on the Roman Elegies in English for you, and Elegy X actually has a Fritz and Heinrich allusion:
From the same website:
Alexander, and Cæsar, and Henry, and Frederick, the mighty,
On me would gladly bestow half of the glory they earn’d,
Could I but grant unto each one night on the couch where I’m lying;
But they, by Orcus’s night, sternly, alas! are held down.
Therefore rejoice, O thou living one, bless’d in thy love-lighted homestead,
Ere the dark Lethe’s sad wave wetteth thy fugitive foot."
And here‘s the Gutenberg trranslation:
All of those greats: Alexander, Caesar and Henry and Fredrick,
Gladly would share with me half of their hard fought renown,
Could I but grant them my bed for one single night, and its comfort,
But the poor wretches are held stark in cold Orkian grip.
Therefore, ye living, rejoice that love keeps you warm for a while yet,
Until cold Lethe anoints, captures your foot in its flight
(Original:
"Alexander und Cäsar und Heinrich und Friedrich, die Großen,
Gäben die Hälfte mir gern ihres erworbenen Ruhms,
Könnt ich auf eine Nacht dies Lager jedem vergönnen;
Aber die Armen, sie hält strenge des Orkus Gewalt.
Freue dich also, Lebendger, der lieberwärmeten Stätte,
Ehe den fliehenden Fuß schauerlich Lethe dir netzt."
Re: The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel - the literary footnotes
Date: 2020-01-25 09:46 pm (UTC)Madame de Stael: I think German verse feels clumsy.
Goethe: I think French verse feels like tapeworm
ahahahaha! this totally made me laugh.
...but mainly this was my trying to find something to get the social media equivalant of „De La Literature Allemande“ out of Alcibiades. ;)
Hee, yes, I was admiring how you wrote this and put up the relevant
Alexander, and Cæsar, and Henry, and Frederick, the mighty,
On me would gladly bestow half of the glory they earn’d,
Could I but grant unto each one night on the couch where I’m lying;
...this is giving me a lot of Feelings.
Re: The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel - the literary footnotes
Date: 2020-01-26 02:43 am (UTC)but mainly this was my trying to find something to get the social media equivalant of „De La Literature Allemande“ out of Alcibiades
I could just see Alcibiades quipping: What do I think of German literature? I think it would be a good idea. :P
Elegy X actually has a Fritz and Heinrich allusion:
Heinrich as in our Heinrich? Brother of Fritz? Or Heinrich der Große as in Henri IV of France? Wait, I just checked Goethe's dates, and the elegies were written 1788-1790, when our Heinrich was still alive. So you must have meant the other Heinrich, which makes more sense anyway if the line is going in chronological order.
I don't know whether he actually said he wanted every peasant to have a chicken in the pot on Sunday (i.e. financial stability for everyone during his reign), but it's one of those lines that always gets associated with him. It may be apocryphal, though, and I'm way too behind on posts to look that up. :P
ETA: Another note for
1786: Fritz dies.
1786-1788: Goethe goes to Italy.
1788-1790: Goethe writes the Roman Elegies.
1795: Elegies published (most of them, including X).
So when Goethe is writing about Fritz being dead, Fritz has just recently gone from being der einzige König, celebrity of Europe, to just another shade.
(I'm also, now that I've had a chance to think about it, confused why you would mention "Fritz and Heinrich" in the same phrase like that if you meant Henri IV, so maybe I'm wrong and you *did* mean he was talking about our Heinrich,
Re: The Very Secret Chat Transcripts: The Sequel - the literary footnotes
Date: 2020-01-31 05:22 am (UTC)