Frederick the Great discussion post 9
Jan. 13th, 2020 09:09 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahn...I leave you guys alone for one weekend and it's time for a new Fritz post, lol!
I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)
Frederick the Great links
I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)
Frederick the Great links
Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 04:09 am (UTC)But now the wretched question comes up, where to comment? Perhaps mildred was right that it's a little weird to split discussion.
On the other hand, I REALLY like having all the material in posts like that.
I also wonder if it makes sense to link to where they came from? In case someone would like to read the full discussion :) (Although maybe it doesn't make sense to go back and do that for the ones you've already done.)
I'm reading the AW Trier letters now (this is your fault) and they are breaking my heart. Fritz is so sweet in them, the bastard.
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 07:45 am (UTC)It's also great being able to edit, i.e when I find another Fredersdorf letters quote, say, I can put it into the main post instead of having to post another comment.
Re: discussion - well, how about this:
For ongoing discussions, like currently about AW-Fritz-Heinrich, we use your posts, as per usual. If you, by the collection of the material, feel inspired to make another, new comment, it would in fact be more sensible to make it at the community, as your old Posts already have 300 plus comments.
Linking the discussions themselves: Maybe once we're done uploading, but honestly, I think potential new readers will be very busy reading through the main post material to begin with! ;)
Fritz being sweet towards AW: I know. Remember when a long time ago we had no idea how he and Wilhelmine stood towards the younger sibs? About the only thing I knew back then was that things did end badly with AW, so I assumed they'd had a distant relationship at best.
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 01:59 pm (UTC)I like your idea about commenting procedures. The only downside is those of us without paid accounts can only subscribe to 25 notifications at once.
Oh, who am I kidding? Thanks to my word-counting and comment-counting script, I practically already have a notification system I wrote myself, with no service limits. :P I'd just need to tweak that.
Okay, problem solved. :D
Remember when a long time ago we had no idea how he and Wilhelmine stood towards the younger sibs?
A long time ago, we had no idea about a lot of things. We've all come a long way! If it weren't for you two, I would have read/reread two Kindle bios of Fritz, written some uninformed fanfic, and called it a day. I am profoundly grateful for the educational opportunities.
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 04:28 pm (UTC)Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 04:33 pm (UTC)Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 04:37 pm (UTC)I was also thinking there should be a sticky posts with recs for books, shows, etc. Like
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 05:38 pm (UTC)* births and deaths of Fritz's immediate family, also Fredersdorf and Katte deaths
* Ascensions of other monarchs where it's relevant (Austria, Russia)
* Beginning and ends of various wars
* The AW implosion
* Fritz' marriage and those of his siblings
* The dates of Visits Important To Gossipy Sensationlists, like, when Voltaire visited Prussia, when Algarotti was in Prussia / made Count / etc.
To encourage brevity, what if all entries for the specific year were made under that year?
1740: Friedrich Wilhelm dies 31 May. Fritz crowned [whenever he got crowned]. His Anti-Machiavel pamphlet is published in September. Charles VI, Holy Roman Emperor, dies 20 October (Maria Theresia succeeds him but is not recognized at the time as Empress). Fritz invades the Austrian province of Silesia in December, starting the War of the Austrian Succession.
Something like that? It should make sense to someone who is coming to it new but shouldn't have a lot of extraneous detail, that is what the posts are for :D
My other thought is that really important stuff should be bolded. Things like Fritz ascending to the throne. And Katte :P
ETA: And YESSSSS to recs and books! I don't even know what bio of Fritz I should check out; I looked around over the break and got sort of intimidated by all the possibilities.
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 05:45 pm (UTC)To encourage brevity, what if all entries for the specific year were made under that year?
What do you mean?
I don't even know what bio of Fritz I should check out;
Ugh, I wish I could be more help, but physical books, you know. The one I recommended a while back when someone asked was Blanning; very recent (2015? I forget), tries not to buy into centuries of mythologizing but actually look at evidence, gay but not "Everyone is GAY GAY GAY and bi people do not exist and neither does an experimentation/questioning phase!" I would also add that it's light on politics/war (but has a very interesting take on Fritz's strengths and weaknesses as a general that has informed mine, after years of exposure to the Mythologizing of Frederick the Great), but heavy on arts and music, which might be an extra feature for you.
So if you wanted to start somewhere, that's not a bad place. I do need to reread it, though, now that I know far more than when I read it back in June or whatever. I might find lots of issues that I didn't pick up on at the time. (So far the big one is his presentation of the Marwitz episode like he actually knows what happens.)
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 07:10 pm (UTC)What do you mean?
I mean that I feel like if each entry got its own part of the timeline, it would become very large and invite expansion. Here's a sample of what I think would rapidly become very unwieldy:
31 May 1740 FW dies, age 51
1 Jun 1740 [I know this isn't right but I can't easily find the date reference] Friedrich is crowned King Friedrich II in Prussia
Sept 1740 Fritz's anti-Machiavel pamphlet is published, thus leading Voltaire to exclaim [whatever it was he said about how Fritz was the greatest]
I propose instead what I said above, a single entry for the entire year:
1740: Friedrich Wilhelm dies 31 May. Fritz is crowned King Friedrich II in Prussia [whenever he got crowned]. His Anti-Machiavel pamphlet decrying invasion is published in September. Charles VI, Holy Roman Emperor, dies 20 October (Maria Theresia succeeds him but is not recognized at the time as Empress). Fritz invades the Austrian province of Silesia in December, starting the War of the Austrian Succession.
It may be a little harder to read individual entries than the first way but I think it has the virtues of not being quite as overwhelming overall and making the entire timeline a little easier to scan through.
Hmm, OK, I may check the Blanning out! After I finish all my current reading, lol. I will go back to Wilhelmine but I've sort of slewed over to the AW letters for now :P :)
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-17 07:31 pm (UTC)That's because he was never crowned! He went for cheap homage ceremonies, appeared in public, waved at people, gave out some medals with his image on them, went home. FW had done the same. The last coronation in Prussia was the first King (in) Prussia, Grandpa F1, who was a big spender.
Coronations are expensive and decadent and (of concern to Fritz) not for enlightened, non-superstitious monarchs!
Okay, so you want fewer items but more detail per item than I was going to go for. I suppose that makes sense if it's meant as an introductory resource and not just a reference for the initiated.
I may also do a longer chronology with less detail per entry as a reference work for the initiated (who may also be plotting fic, haha).
Blanning is also a lighter read than a lot of the other biographers, in that it took me less time to read 600 pages by him than to read 300 pages by other biographers. So it's a good intro to the topic for that reason as well. It's also ten bucks.
I will go back to Wilhelmine but I've sort of slewed over to the AW letters for now :P :)
There's a lot to read! I've started like ten things that I haven't finished. (I have a Trello list for them, lol.) Plus I'm about to finish rereading MacDonogh, and then I want to reread Blanning, with all this new knowledge under my belt.
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-18 03:52 am (UTC)Relatedly, is there a good, non-overly aggrandising book or resource as to Fritz’s military strategy? I’m only familiar with the standard myth of the war genius general, mostly from Berlin visits and familiarity with the post-Fritz Napoleonic wars, albeit from the non-Prussian side of things (thanks, Mis fandom!). I see you’ve recommended Blanning to cahn, which probably means I should wait for her to be done with it and make free with her summarised views :)
(I’m also interested in resources on the Prussian military uniform, but that’s probably just my thing for uniforms.)
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-18 03:58 am (UTC)I similarly have Frederick the Great: The Uniforms of the Prussian Army under Frederick the Great 1740 to 1786 on my list of books to ILL on some future date, since I can't find it cheaply enough to buy. Or at least couldn't last time I looked.
Prussian military uniforms
Date: 2020-01-18 07:19 am (UTC)Cavalry
Infantry
Special tasks not covered by the above:
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-18 04:19 am (UTC)Oh, yeah, I totally support making two chronologies: a beginner's chronology specifically for introductory purposes, and one with lots of entries, for reference (which, yeah, I would also find REALLY helpful when reading these letters, for one thing). And yay fic-writing :D
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-18 04:26 am (UTC)Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-18 04:49 am (UTC)(omg, I got a chronology joke, what have you guys DONE to me)
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-18 04:51 am (UTC)Tracking Rheinsberg
Date: 2020-01-17 05:47 pm (UTC)Another great thing about a community! :)
Re: Tracking Rheinsberg
Date: 2020-01-17 05:49 pm (UTC)The community is turning out to have many benefits. I'm glad we founded it!
Re: Rheinsberg, the community
Date: 2020-01-18 10:17 pm (UTC)