re: Leopold, oh, absolutely. It was his son Franz II who was the true reactionary (who took back all of Leopold's and Joseph's reforms). But since Leopold came after Joseph, his initial image was "conservative-moderate".
Not to mention the even bigger incompatibilities between Fritz and MT. Lol. Disaster or big disaster?
Maximum desaster. Though I have a hard time seeing it happening in the first place, because the religious obstacles are truly considerable. One of them would have had to convert. There's no way, no how, that the heiress presumptative to the Habsburgs, a dynasty defining itself as champions of the Catholic faith, would have been allowed to convert, or to marry someone who wasn't a Catholic himself, even if he swore any children would be Catholics.
(There were, of course, several Protestant German princesses who had to marry Catholic or Russian Orthodox princes and converted - including Catherine II - but Catherine I is the only Catholic I can think of who converted in order to marry Peter I., and she was a freed serf, not a princess. The only "Catholic princess marries Protestant prince who is allowed to maintain his religion as part of the marriage deal" example I can currently think of is the most notoriously ill fated of them all - Margot de Valois/Henri de Navarre - and post- St. Bartholomew Night, he did have to convert. Not for the last time.)
But let's say FW, arch-Protestant who he is, allows Fritz to convert, and let's say Fritz is willing to fake becoming a Catholic for the sake of becoming Emperor (which, after all, is the deal for anyone marrying Maria Theresia unless her father sires a male heir at the last minute, which on one but her dad considered still possible at that point). Maybe Fritz activates his inner Machiavellian and figures once he's on the throne, he can ignore what nominal religion he has anyway, plus he gets to be his father's boss if FW should outlive MT's father. Let's also consider that Maria Theresia was raised to believe in the superiority of the male sex and would have accepted, to a degree, her husband's decisions. Let's also say the two don't hate each other on sight, because MT symbolizes freedom from Dad and superiority to Dad for Fritz, and she's well educated (she was trained to be a royal spouse, after all), smart, and, importantly, musical. (She must have had a great singing voice; her singing opera arias early in the miniseries is one of the actual historical elements. Meanwhile, MT might have been heartbroken because she was already in love with Franz Stefan, but she had a keen sense of duty, Fritz was smart and again, well educated, though they'd have to talk about the classics and music since she had no sympathy for Voltaire. If all this works out, then I still would argue "to a degree" would soon be used up.
For starters: sex. There's no way Maria Theresia would have gone for one of Fritz' siblings as heirs presumptative of the Habsburg dynasty. No matter if she'd come to loathe Fritz as a person, she'd have wanted heirs from her own body. And her father, who in fact outlived FW, would have insisted, too. (And considering Joseph's mission to fix his sister's sex life with Louis XVI in rl, you can bet his granddad would have been as intrusive when it came to his daughter and Fritz.) There are few things easier to produce mutual hostility than two people who don't love each other forced to have sex. (And I don't think either of them would have been much good at it under these circumstances.)
Secondly: priorities. Where do they live, Prussia or Austria? The Austrian army direly needed Prussian reforms, but I'm not sure the Austrian nobility would have accepted being subjected to them from a Prussian prince, especially if said Prince didn't produce male heirs from the Arch Duchess. (In rl, Franz Stefan was ridiculed for "only" siring daughters those first few years, and he actually had spent some considerable time at the Austrian court as a youth.) Once both fathers are dead, does Fritz actually get elected as Emperor or has he by then pissed off various other princes already and they go for the Wittelsbach guy anyway? How long does MT's sense of wifely duty last before she considers killing him asking for an annulment from the Church? If she and Fritz somehow do produce a male heir, would Fritz then kill her take off to Prussia and hope she's content with a separated life instead of mobilizing the Austrian and Hungarian nobility against him? And so forth.
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Re: Nomination coordination redux
Date: 2019-09-30 09:28 am (UTC)Not to mention the even bigger incompatibilities between Fritz and MT. Lol. Disaster or big disaster?
Maximum desaster. Though I have a hard time seeing it happening in the first place, because the religious obstacles are truly considerable. One of them would have had to convert. There's no way, no how, that the heiress presumptative to the Habsburgs, a dynasty defining itself as champions of the Catholic faith, would have been allowed to convert, or to marry someone who wasn't a Catholic himself, even if he swore any children would be Catholics.
(There were, of course, several Protestant German princesses who had to marry Catholic or Russian Orthodox princes and converted - including Catherine II - but Catherine I is the only Catholic I can think of who converted in order to marry Peter I., and she was a freed serf, not a princess. The only "Catholic princess marries Protestant prince who is allowed to maintain his religion as part of the marriage deal" example I can currently think of is the most notoriously ill fated of them all - Margot de Valois/Henri de Navarre - and post- St. Bartholomew Night, he did have to convert. Not for the last time.)
But let's say FW, arch-Protestant who he is, allows Fritz to convert, and let's say Fritz is willing to fake becoming a Catholic for the sake of becoming Emperor (which, after all, is the deal for anyone marrying Maria Theresia unless her father sires a male heir at the last minute, which on one but her dad considered still possible at that point). Maybe Fritz activates his inner Machiavellian and figures once he's on the throne, he can ignore what nominal religion he has anyway, plus he gets to be his father's boss if FW should outlive MT's father. Let's also consider that Maria Theresia was raised to believe in the superiority of the male sex and would have accepted, to a degree, her husband's decisions. Let's also say the two don't hate each other on sight, because MT symbolizes freedom from Dad and superiority to Dad for Fritz, and she's well educated (she was trained to be a royal spouse, after all), smart, and, importantly, musical. (She must have had a great singing voice; her singing opera arias early in the miniseries is one of the actual historical elements. Meanwhile, MT might have been heartbroken because she was already in love with Franz Stefan, but she had a keen sense of duty, Fritz was smart and again, well educated, though they'd have to talk about the classics and music since she had no sympathy for Voltaire. If all this works out, then I still would argue "to a degree" would soon be used up.
For starters: sex. There's no way Maria Theresia would have gone for one of Fritz' siblings as heirs presumptative of the Habsburg dynasty. No matter if she'd come to loathe Fritz as a person, she'd have wanted heirs from her own body. And her father, who in fact outlived FW, would have insisted, too. (And considering Joseph's mission to fix his sister's sex life with Louis XVI in rl, you can bet his granddad would have been as intrusive when it came to his daughter and Fritz.) There are few things easier to produce mutual hostility than two people who don't love each other forced to have sex. (And I don't think either of them would have been much good at it under these circumstances.)
Secondly: priorities. Where do they live, Prussia or Austria? The Austrian army direly needed Prussian reforms, but I'm not sure the Austrian nobility would have accepted being subjected to them from a Prussian prince, especially if said Prince didn't produce male heirs from the Arch Duchess. (In rl, Franz Stefan was ridiculed for "only" siring daughters those first few years, and he actually had spent some considerable time at the Austrian court as a youth.) Once both fathers are dead, does Fritz actually get elected as Emperor or has he by then pissed off various other princes already and they go for the Wittelsbach guy anyway? How long does MT's sense of wifely duty last before she considers
killing himasking for an annulment from the Church? If she and Fritz somehow do produce a male heir, would Fritz thenkill hertake off to Prussia and hope she's content with a separated life instead of mobilizing the Austrian and Hungarian nobility against him? And so forth.