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cahnThese books describe social roles for boys (Masterminds) and girls (Queen Bees),particularly in the teen years, as well as discussing general parenting for the teen years (including video games, porn, etc). They were recced to me by E's best friend's mom, who has two boys and who said she saw the dynamics in this book taking place as early as kindergarten ...These books scared me, as it sounds rather like raising older kids is even more fraught than I'd thought.
I will heavily caveat these books by saying that they aren't at all (as far as I remember) researched in a methodical way. Wiseman has worked with a bunch of teenagers in groups and individually, and she had a group of boys serve as "editors" for Masterminds. So it's not just her opinions, but it... kind of is just her opinions, in a large way. And especially in Masterminds (she has two boys), she will often refer to her own parenting and use it as an example.
In Masterminds specifically, Wiseman identifies a large portion of the boy dynamics as dependent on what she calls the "Act Like a Man Box," where there are certain specific (American-centric -- this was clearly written for an American audience) qualities that are considered positively masculine, like being good at (particular) sports, downplaying emotion, a quick sense of humor, etc. Because of this, she claims, boys feel forced into acting in a certain way that drive them into particular "roles" in a hierarchical society (where the more you "fit in the box" the higher you are, generally speaking), and things like showing emotional pain are very hard.
I don't know how prevalent this is; as I said, the parent who recced it to me says she saw it happening in their public elementary school. At the private school we're now both at, the dynamics are quite different, I think, because the sorts of parents it attracts generally try very hard not to put their kids in that box (or have kids who don't fit in that box, or both), and because it's so small. (Recently I was in a conversation with three other moms from that school, and I was the only one with a child at the school who didn't like to wear skirts. I also had the only girl of the four of us at that school.)
Queen Bees and Wannabees I confess I skimmed. Okay, so, were all the other girls out there attuned to all the girl-politics that were apparently going on in our middle schools and almost all of which I seem to have entirely missed by hiding out in the library? Like, I was vaguely aware that there were girl-politics going on and that I couldn't hold my own and that occasionally my life would be made miserable (and I will always be grateful to the one popular girl who specifically rejected being mean as a life strategy, even in middle school) but... I didn't know any of this stuff was going on! BFF-breakups-and-getting-back-together, friend group dynamics and hierarchies, interactions with boys and how those interacted with BFF-ness and friend group dynamics... all of it was alien to me. Not quite totally alien, because I've read my share of teen novels, but I think part of me always thought it was made up or exaggerated, that real people didn't actually interact this way! It was very odd because it was basically a sociology book dissecting... my life... and coming to conclusions where I was unaware there was even data, if that makes any sense. (And also when I was a junior and senior I went to the gifted high school where the dynamics were very different.) It's not wrong, either! Any of you who know me and my mom in RL will not be at all surprised that my mom turns out to have been way more clued in to the girls' dynamics than I ever was, and occasionally we have these conversations where something comes up about how X and Y interacted with Z and cut out W and I'll be like "...what??"
Relatedly, no discussion of ASD girls the way there was of ASD boys in Masterminds, probably because the latter was written later.
I skimmed this one because it's just... not going to be relevant for E, for the same reasons it wasn't relevant to me. Like me when I was an adolescent, she doesn't even have the apparatus for detecting all this going on. (I am encouraging her to read books about ordinary kids (not just mice or people with swords, which she prefers) so that at least she has minimal access to this. She is now willing to read Ramona and Superfudge, so: progress!)
Anyway, these were both interesting for me to read, even if as alien sociology rather than explicit parenting guide. I may buy Masterminds for reference when A. gets older (I checked them out from the library). I'll almost certainly buy Queen Bees for my sister, as it's going to be relevant for her daughter.
I am really interested to hear, though, how those of you with older kids have seen these kinds of social dynamics working out (or not), and how they do or don't work out for those of you (like me) with younger kids.
I will heavily caveat these books by saying that they aren't at all (as far as I remember) researched in a methodical way. Wiseman has worked with a bunch of teenagers in groups and individually, and she had a group of boys serve as "editors" for Masterminds. So it's not just her opinions, but it... kind of is just her opinions, in a large way. And especially in Masterminds (she has two boys), she will often refer to her own parenting and use it as an example.
In Masterminds specifically, Wiseman identifies a large portion of the boy dynamics as dependent on what she calls the "Act Like a Man Box," where there are certain specific (American-centric -- this was clearly written for an American audience) qualities that are considered positively masculine, like being good at (particular) sports, downplaying emotion, a quick sense of humor, etc. Because of this, she claims, boys feel forced into acting in a certain way that drive them into particular "roles" in a hierarchical society (where the more you "fit in the box" the higher you are, generally speaking), and things like showing emotional pain are very hard.
I don't know how prevalent this is; as I said, the parent who recced it to me says she saw it happening in their public elementary school. At the private school we're now both at, the dynamics are quite different, I think, because the sorts of parents it attracts generally try very hard not to put their kids in that box (or have kids who don't fit in that box, or both), and because it's so small. (Recently I was in a conversation with three other moms from that school, and I was the only one with a child at the school who didn't like to wear skirts. I also had the only girl of the four of us at that school.)
Queen Bees and Wannabees I confess I skimmed. Okay, so, were all the other girls out there attuned to all the girl-politics that were apparently going on in our middle schools and almost all of which I seem to have entirely missed by hiding out in the library? Like, I was vaguely aware that there were girl-politics going on and that I couldn't hold my own and that occasionally my life would be made miserable (and I will always be grateful to the one popular girl who specifically rejected being mean as a life strategy, even in middle school) but... I didn't know any of this stuff was going on! BFF-breakups-and-getting-back-together, friend group dynamics and hierarchies, interactions with boys and how those interacted with BFF-ness and friend group dynamics... all of it was alien to me. Not quite totally alien, because I've read my share of teen novels, but I think part of me always thought it was made up or exaggerated, that real people didn't actually interact this way! It was very odd because it was basically a sociology book dissecting... my life... and coming to conclusions where I was unaware there was even data, if that makes any sense. (And also when I was a junior and senior I went to the gifted high school where the dynamics were very different.) It's not wrong, either! Any of you who know me and my mom in RL will not be at all surprised that my mom turns out to have been way more clued in to the girls' dynamics than I ever was, and occasionally we have these conversations where something comes up about how X and Y interacted with Z and cut out W and I'll be like "...what??"
Relatedly, no discussion of ASD girls the way there was of ASD boys in Masterminds, probably because the latter was written later.
I skimmed this one because it's just... not going to be relevant for E, for the same reasons it wasn't relevant to me. Like me when I was an adolescent, she doesn't even have the apparatus for detecting all this going on. (I am encouraging her to read books about ordinary kids (not just mice or people with swords, which she prefers) so that at least she has minimal access to this. She is now willing to read Ramona and Superfudge, so: progress!)
Anyway, these were both interesting for me to read, even if as alien sociology rather than explicit parenting guide. I may buy Masterminds for reference when A. gets older (I checked them out from the library). I'll almost certainly buy Queen Bees for my sister, as it's going to be relevant for her daughter.
I am really interested to hear, though, how those of you with older kids have seen these kinds of social dynamics working out (or not), and how they do or don't work out for those of you (like me) with younger kids.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-13 08:38 pm (UTC)He's not on the spectrum, although he has a BUNCH of engineers on both sides of his family (and is an engineer himself) :)
(He's not like you in many other ways :P :) )
no subject
Date: 2019-09-14 10:59 pm (UTC)He's not like you in many other ways :P :)
Well, yeah, I hear he doesn't even think Frederick the Great is all that. :P :)
no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 04:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 04:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 06:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-09-16 06:45 pm (UTC)