when Prince or King Fritz is du/tu-ing a social inferior + close friend/practically husband, such as Fredersdorf or Katte, in conversation, is he necessarily also first-naming them, or could it go either way?
Du + last name in the 18th century: the thing is, in most circumstances I'd say this conveys greater emotional distance than Du + first name, but the exceptions are army buddies and school comrades. In both cases, Du + last name would be the normal thing, and Fritz was socialized by his father having him drill with the army from early childhood onwards. There's also the additional complication of him being so fixated on French, language wise, that it's more likely he'd follow French customs (in as much as he knew them), and well, the French were clinging to Vous far longer than the Germans to Sie and Ihr, see also Simone de Beauvour and Jean-Paul Sartre calling each other Vous all their lives. (And she called him Sartre, not Jean-Paul.) (He called her Beaver. A nickname is always an option for you, too.) (Otoh: we do know with Fredersdorf, Fritz made the effort of writing German and du, so... who knows?)
Otoh, I have the next best thing to a contemporary parallel for you with Goethe and Carl August, the Duke of Weimar - this guy.
Young Carl August: *turns 18, becomes ruling Duke of Weimar, does Peter III one better by not writing fanboy letter but making fanboy appearance in Frankfurt at ten years older Goethe's place* OMG! You're totally my idol! Best young writer in Germany! Be the Voltaire to my Fritz! Come to Weimar with me!
Goethe at 28: *has achieved early literary stardom with Götz von Berlichingen (notoriously hated by Fritz in writing) and Werther, but is Kind of over Sturm und Drang and at any rate hates the prospect of being a lawyer in Frankfurt to support himself, books not earning their writer money in the 18th century* You know… what the hell, why not. But I'm thinking less Voltaire and more Richelieu.
Consequence: early wild period, in which the young duke and no longer quite as young Goethe hit the taverns, towns and mountains in the tiny dukedom and go as far as having foursomes together, followed by sober period of Goethe becoming the most important minister in Carl August's cabinet (rest of the cabinet, all nobles: But! He's a writer from Hesse with not an ounce of noble blood!" Carl August: Shut up, he's the greatest genius alive, I just know it! And fine, now he's von Goethe, now will you obey and work with him!) and not writing much (though there are some bits, including some of his most famous Poems) for the next decade, as he really throws himself 100% into governing.
Goethe, after a decade *has Burnout*: Okay, if I'm continuing like this, I'll never be able to be foremost a writer again. Off to Italy in secret now! Sorry, Carl August. See you in two years!
Weimar: Is indignant. Carl August: You just don't understand him. I'll continue to pay him his salary as a minister and hope I'll see him again.
Goethe, two years later: Back from Italy. I've rediscovered myself as a writer, so I won't be able to go back co-governing with you, but I'll remain in the cabinet as one of the ministers and devote two thirds to writing, a third of my time to politics from now on. That still okay with you?
Carl August: YOU'RE BACK! Sure, whatever you want. But my favourite mistress must get the lead role in your next drama.
Goethe: ...Okay.
So that was the type of relationship they had. In their official correspondance, it's "your highness" and Sie all the way, but we have enough witnesses to know that during the first wild frat boy time, it was a mutual du, and likely in later years when they were alone, it was "Hans" (for Goethe, who was Johann Wolfgang) and "Carl" still.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Re: Fredersdorf
Date: 2019-09-05 09:08 am (UTC)Du + last name in the 18th century: the thing is, in most circumstances I'd say this conveys greater emotional distance than Du + first name, but the exceptions are army buddies and school comrades. In both cases, Du + last name would be the normal thing, and Fritz was socialized by his father having him drill with the army from early childhood onwards. There's also the additional complication of him being so fixated on French, language wise, that it's more likely he'd follow French customs (in as much as he knew them), and well, the French were clinging to Vous far longer than the Germans to Sie and Ihr, see also Simone de Beauvour and Jean-Paul Sartre calling each other Vous all their lives. (And she called him Sartre, not Jean-Paul.) (He called her Beaver. A nickname is always an option for you, too.) (Otoh: we do know with Fredersdorf, Fritz made the effort of writing German and du, so... who knows?)
Otoh, I have the next best thing to a contemporary parallel for you with Goethe and Carl August, the Duke of Weimar - this guy.
Young Carl August: *turns 18, becomes ruling Duke of Weimar, does Peter III one better by not writing fanboy letter but making fanboy appearance in Frankfurt at ten years older Goethe's place* OMG! You're totally my idol! Best young writer in Germany! Be the Voltaire to my Fritz! Come to Weimar with me!
Goethe at 28: *has achieved early literary stardom with Götz von Berlichingen (notoriously hated by Fritz in writing) and Werther, but is Kind of over Sturm und Drang and at any rate hates the prospect of being a lawyer in Frankfurt to support himself, books not earning their writer money in the 18th century* You know… what the hell, why not. But I'm thinking less Voltaire and more Richelieu.
Consequence: early wild period, in which the young duke and no longer quite as young Goethe hit the taverns, towns and mountains in the tiny dukedom and go as far as having foursomes together, followed by sober period of Goethe becoming the most important minister in Carl August's cabinet (rest of the cabinet, all nobles: But! He's a writer from Hesse with not an ounce of noble blood!" Carl August: Shut up, he's the greatest genius alive, I just know it! And fine, now he's von Goethe, now will you obey and work with him!) and not writing much (though there are some bits, including some of his most famous Poems) for the next decade, as he really throws himself 100% into governing.
Goethe, after a decade *has Burnout*: Okay, if I'm continuing like this, I'll never be able to be foremost a writer again. Off to Italy in secret now! Sorry, Carl August. See you in two years!
Weimar: Is indignant.
Carl August: You just don't understand him. I'll continue to pay him his salary as a minister and hope I'll see him again.
Goethe, two years later: Back from Italy. I've rediscovered myself as a writer, so I won't be able to go back co-governing with you, but I'll remain in the cabinet as one of the ministers and devote two thirds to writing, a third of my time to politics from now on. That still okay with you?
Carl August: YOU'RE BACK! Sure, whatever you want. But my favourite mistress must get the lead role in your next drama.
Goethe: ...Okay.
So that was the type of relationship they had. In their official correspondance, it's "your highness" and Sie all the way, but we have enough witnesses to know that during the first wild frat boy time, it was a mutual du, and likely in later years when they were alone, it was "Hans" (for Goethe, who was Johann Wolfgang) and "Carl" still.