January meme, fiction vs. real life

[cahn]

morbane asked about something I like in different ways in fiction vs. real life.

I'm not sure if this is exactly answering the question, but I'm going to talk about something I absolutely hate and despise in real life, and which I madly adore in fiction: Conspiracy theories!

In real life, I hate them with a complete and utter passion, because they basically always signal a lack of any kind of understanding of quantitative analysis, the way that science works, and the way that people/governments work. (And if that isn't bad enough, you may be doing harm to me and my family; see rant below.) First, because it seems like this should be obvious even if you don't know how to add: anyone who suggests that there is a vast government conspiracy to cover up something super huge for years and years like lack of moon landing, or whatever, has… well… never worked for the government, and probably has never worked for an organization involving more than a thousand people, or else is completely clueless, because, um, yeah, large bureaucratic organizations don't really work competently enough like that, even though lots of people have bent their energies to the problem of trying to be able to keep things secret. And, of course, if you want me to go completely ballistic, try suggesting there's a conspiracy to give kids autism via vaccination, because excuse me herd immunity I do not appreciate you risking the health of my children, and yes I am talking to you, upper-middle-class scientifically illiterate people I hold responsible for the recent pertussis outbreak in the community in which I live! (1)(Scientific method! Analytical studies! Retractions! Also see my previous note on vast government conspiracies! But mostly: rage.)

Ahem.

In fiction, I eat that stuff up, because "conspiracy theory" in fiction is another way of saying "long-range narrative arc," and it comes hand-in-hand with intricate plotting and worldbuilding, which are things I love more than anything. (And also there are usually a lot of people behaving extremely competently, both the conspiracy-builders — which they would have to in order to get the conspiracy going and keep it secret to begin with — and the people who bring the conspiracy down. Which is also something I really love.) If it turns out that there is a vast conspiracy involving alternate universes? Sign me up. Every time! (Hi X-Files, my first TV vast-government-conspiracy love! Wish you'd been able to stick with it! Hi Fringe, I'm enjoying you a lot!) A vast government conspiracy involving the very foundations of the country being involved in a massive plot? Fullmetal Alchemist for the win! A vast conspiracy involving time-traveling cyborgs? I am so there, Kage Baker!

Anyone have large-scale intricate-plot conspiracies that they would like to recommend? :)

(1) Wow. At the particular swanky private preschool in my community that had the outbreak last fall, seventy-two percent of the kids were opted out of at least some vaccinations, with forty-seven percent not fully immunized against pertussis in particular. Just. This page is not sufficient to contain my rage, so I'll just say: wow.

Comments

[skygiants]

OH MAN KAGE BAKER. Kage .... Baker.

I feel like a lot of the manga I've read tends to turn out to involve long-term conspiracies that hide crucial components of the worldbuilding -- it seems like it's a pretty common way to build the more complex shonen plots, like Claymore and Pumpkin Scissors. And Twentieth Century Boys, which isn't shonen, but is maybe the best example of AMAZING MASSIVE CONSPIRACY WORLDBUILDING.

[cahn]

Kage Baker! I ended up rereading large portions of the Company books for beta purposes over Yuletide. I find her compulsively readable, when she's not busy promulgating her... extremely skeevy emotionally abusive romance... every so often I'd dip back into the Mendoza sections to see whether it was that bad, and it ALWAYS WAS. And yet the rest of it is so interesting and readable!

Would you particularly recommend those manga? I have to say, that description makes me want to read Twentieth Century Boys...

[skygiants]

I keep waffling between doing a giant reread of the Company books because of the parts I love -- so many great characters! so much clever, witty history! -- and then remembering EVERYTHING THAT WAS HORRIFIC in the last couple books with Mendoza and Edward Alton "The Worst Ever" Bell-Fairfax and deciding not to for the sake of my personal well-being. Someday though I'm not going to be able to resist. ;___;

I would recommend all these manga but especially 20th Century Boys, which is one of my all-time favorites -- the plot starts out with a middle-aged convenience store owner who finds out that a MYSTERIOUS SINISTER CULT LEADER has been putting the wacky "let's-pretend world domination!" games he and his friends used to make up when they were kids into actual practice, and so he has to recruit all his old friends in order to stop it (with a baby strapped to his back most of the time, since he's also responsible for his infant niece. And his convenience store.) I love it for the amazing and SUPER BIZARRE conspiracy which involves a lot of very serious and frightening adults earnestly trying to put into affect a set of world domination plans literally designed by twelve-year-olds who don't understand science, and for how deals with the way that things impact you as a kid, and how you sort of only half-remember that impact as an adult even while they continue to affect you, and for the fact that the protagonist is just a genuine sweetheart.

(And for the girl in my icon, who is one of my all-time favorite characters because she spends the entire series from her introduction about six or seven volumes in making an increasingly beautiful series of horrified and weirded-out faces. AND RIGHTLY SO.)

[cahn]

...yes! I would highly recommend my method of rereading, which was to read all of it except for any section from the POV of Mendoza or Edward (or his associated alter egos). (This also meant none of Life of the World to Come. I also, honestly, skipped the first two books.) It does make it slightly more awkward, but Kage Baker is good enough with the entertaining infodumps that it is actually not too hard to figure out what is going on even without any of those sections!

ahhhh, that sounds great, I will have to look around for that...

[philomytha]

Have you watched Nikita? Vast government conspiracies with extra conspiracies within them and bonus conspiracies on the side, plus it has great characters, long plotty arcs, and also it's a rare show which pretty much has gender parity with the main roles.

(And oh I hear you on the vaccines thing. I live in a hippy sort of area so we get a lot of that crap. And I have an extra-special bit of rage for the many many people who are happy to imply that it's better to be dead than like my son and who like to wave him around as their pet anti-science boogeyman.)

[cahn]

I have not watched Nikita! And it sounds like just the kind of thing I would like! *makes note*

(And argh! I hadn't thought of exactly that point when writing it, but yes. Arrrgh.)

[morbane]

It is answering the question! It was a somewhat awkwardly worded question.

I hear you on the reality of conspiracy vs. the competence of bureaucracy. Although I can believe them when they're not so much giant cover-ups as giant games of telephone. This was quoted on the day so that was reported in the newspaper and fact B wouldn't make any sense in tandem with Mistakenly Reported Thing unless you subscribe to this explanation... and so on and so on.

I don't have any particular conspiracies to recommend, but thank you for your answer!

[cahn]

Ha - yes, if the driving force is incompetence, yes, I believe that :) And what you're describing is also fascinating to me -- like uncovering a mystery :)