And if we think, well, Bronze Age: there is a German historical podcast I've been listening to which because of the upcoming big anniversary covers the last few months of WWII, and in last week's episode, they covered the liberation of France, with it's attendant dark side - while the male collaborators got proper trials, including Petain himself, the women who had sex and/or long term relationships with Germans were put through lynch mob treatment, complete with the cutting of hairs, spitting, beating etc.
Oh nooooo. :(
At least the Odyssey is equal opportunity blood thirsty (i.e. male servants on Team Suitors side get killed as well, and gruesomely so).
Ha, this is what I was thinking -- he's like "eh, let's kill everyone" :P
That Telemachus makes the way of execution even worse than what his father told him to do by changing it from stabbing to hanging is also pretty chilling, and something usually overlooked by pop culture presenting Telemachus as nicer and softer than his old man.
This is interesting too, because although this wasn't said explicitly or really implicitly either, I got the distinct impression that the narrative approved of it in a "okay, kid, you're finally growing up!" kind of way. Chilling, as you say.
This bit was left out by every single retelling I ever read, so the first time I read the actual Odyssey, it caught me by surprise. (As did the constant Aegisthos mentions elsewhere.)
It definitely caught me by surprise! (I'm becoming resigned to apparently remembering nothing from when I previously read it, if indeed I actually did read the whole thing.)
according to Emily Wilson, even in ancient times there were debates about whether the Odyssey originally ended with Penelope and Odysseus in bed and the last two books were added by later poets, especially given the pointlessness of Odysseus lying to Laertes, and that is a theory to this day, but she doesn't share it.
Yeah, after I got past being surprised, this last chapter actually seemed very on-brand, given a) all the AEGISTHUS (which will never stop being funny to me) and b) it does seem very in-character for Odysseus that he'd be like "OK, now I am going to go kill EVERYONE who is threatening me, just try and stop me!" and Athena having to be the one to have to stop him.
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Date: 2025-05-09 04:33 pm (UTC)Oh nooooo. :(
At least the Odyssey is equal opportunity blood thirsty (i.e. male servants on Team Suitors side get killed as well, and gruesomely so).
Ha, this is what I was thinking -- he's like "eh, let's kill everyone" :P
That Telemachus makes the way of execution even worse than what his father told him to do by changing it from stabbing to hanging is also pretty chilling, and something usually overlooked by pop culture presenting Telemachus as nicer and softer than his old man.
This is interesting too, because although this wasn't said explicitly or really implicitly either, I got the distinct impression that the narrative approved of it in a "okay, kid, you're finally growing up!" kind of way. Chilling, as you say.
This bit was left out by every single retelling I ever read, so the first time I read the actual Odyssey, it caught me by surprise. (As did the constant Aegisthos mentions elsewhere.)
It definitely caught me by surprise! (I'm becoming resigned to apparently remembering nothing from when I previously read it, if indeed I actually did read the whole thing.)
according to Emily Wilson, even in ancient times there were debates about whether the Odyssey originally ended with Penelope and Odysseus in bed and the last two books were added by later poets, especially given the pointlessness of Odysseus lying to Laertes, and that is a theory to this day, but she doesn't share it.
Yeah, after I got past being surprised, this last chapter actually seemed very on-brand, given a) all the AEGISTHUS (which will never stop being funny to me) and b) it does seem very in-character for Odysseus that he'd be like "OK, now I am going to go kill EVERYONE who is threatening me, just try and stop me!" and Athena having to be the one to have to stop him.