I still wonder about the effect on GB if William of Orange had adopted FW and England had had the dubious joy of being ruled first by FW, then Fritz. Could they have micromanaged the British Empire, including the overseas colonies?
No, even Prussia was overstraining Fritz by the end of his lifetime, after he'd expanded it in both territory and population. But it would have been entertaining to see them try!
I wish I could remember who said W3 thinking of adopting FW was a myth that's since been exploded, because I ran into a reference in Hatton's scholarly, archive-oriented, but mid-twentieth-century bio of G1.
According to Hatton, Sophia of Hanover and Sophia Charlotte visited W3 in the Netherlands in October 1700. What she said to him and what she had just written to Stepney, the British representative at the Hague, was that her son G1 was indifferent to the British Crown.
Hatton says everyone in Hanover was appalled, that even if this was true (and there's no sign that it was), it undermined the Hanoverian campaign for electoral status.
No wonder that William began to think of alternative candidates to George (had not Sophia herself invited it?), and that the son of the electress of Brandenburg was now reckoned to be ahead of his uncle.
Unfortunately, she groups her citations at the end of the paragraph, so I can't tell what the specific source for this claim is, but they're all primary, contemporary, archival sources.
Hatton continues:
Sophia's letter to Stepney, which became widely known on both sides of the Channel, caused more permanent damage than her talk. It was neither correct nor politic to stress that George was ‘absolute’ in Hanover and that he would be too set in his ways when the time came for him to be king of England, in contrast to James II's son (whom she referred to as the prince of Wales) who was young enough and keen enough to be moulded into the kind of ruler most Englishmen wanted.
I knew that there was a serious discussion between W3 and Louis XIV about the possibility of making James Francis Edward (future Jacobite "James III", Cahn) William's heir, but that his father, uncompromising James II, said that it was impossible that his son could be king while he was alive, so it never came to anything. But I didn't realize Sophia had supported this!
Thanks to Hatton's citation for the letter to Stepney, I've turned up the letter, and downloaded it from Hathitrust, because I'm not sure our Germans can view it. As far as I can tell, she's saying that she would be pleased to have a crown if she were 30 years younger, but it's not realistic to expect her to outlive much younger people, and after her death, there's a risk that her son will be viewed as a foreigner. Furthermore, her son is used to ruling absolutely, whereas the much younger Prince of Wales (whom she calls the "Prince of Wales" without any questions about his birth or his right to hold that title) will be much easier for the English to do what they want with. Something about preconceived biases (?) in England, I didn't quite catch that, and this is all she's going to put in writing now. But she and her daughter (this is Sophia Charlotte, FW's mom, Cahn, I know it's hard to keep the Sophias straight) are traveling and will be meeting W3 soon.
She's not so philosophical that she wouldn't like to wear a crown, but party politics in England are such that you can never be sure of anything, but she's much obliged to everyone for the offer, etc. etc.
Did you know this, Selena? Did you tell us and I forgot?
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William III, FW, and Sophia
Date: 2021-10-23 06:28 pm (UTC)Either that or everyone forgot he existed. :P
I still wonder about the effect on GB if William of Orange had adopted FW and England had had the dubious joy of being ruled first by FW, then Fritz. Could they have micromanaged the British Empire, including the overseas colonies?
No, even Prussia was overstraining Fritz by the end of his lifetime, after he'd expanded it in both territory and population. But it would have been entertaining to see them try!
I wish I could remember who said W3 thinking of adopting FW was a myth that's since been exploded, because I ran into a reference in Hatton's scholarly, archive-oriented, but mid-twentieth-century bio of G1.
According to Hatton, Sophia of Hanover and Sophia Charlotte visited W3 in the Netherlands in October 1700. What she said to him and what she had just written to Stepney, the British representative at the Hague, was that her son G1 was indifferent to the British Crown.
Hatton says everyone in Hanover was appalled, that even if this was true (and there's no sign that it was), it undermined the Hanoverian campaign for electoral status.
No wonder that William began to think of alternative candidates to George (had not Sophia herself invited it?), and that the son of the electress of Brandenburg was now reckoned to be ahead of his uncle.
Unfortunately, she groups her citations at the end of the paragraph, so I can't tell what the specific source for this claim is, but they're all primary, contemporary, archival sources.
Hatton continues:
Sophia's letter to Stepney, which became widely known on both sides of the Channel, caused more permanent damage than her talk. It was neither correct nor politic to stress that George was ‘absolute’ in Hanover and that he would be too set in his ways when the time came for him to be king of England, in contrast to James II's son (whom she referred to as the prince of Wales) who was young enough and keen enough to be moulded into the kind of ruler most Englishmen wanted.
I knew that there was a serious discussion between W3 and Louis XIV about the possibility of making James Francis Edward (future Jacobite "James III", Cahn) William's heir, but that his father, uncompromising James II, said that it was impossible that his son could be king while he was alive, so it never came to anything. But I didn't realize Sophia had supported this!
Thanks to Hatton's citation for the letter to Stepney, I've turned up the letter, and downloaded it from Hathitrust, because I'm not sure our Germans can view it. As far as I can tell, she's saying that she would be pleased to have a crown if she were 30 years younger, but it's not realistic to expect her to outlive much younger people, and after her death, there's a risk that her son will be viewed as a foreigner. Furthermore, her son is used to ruling absolutely, whereas the much younger Prince of Wales (whom she calls the "Prince of Wales" without any questions about his birth or his right to hold that title) will be much easier for the English to do what they want with. Something about preconceived biases (?) in England, I didn't quite catch that, and this is all she's going to put in writing now. But she and her daughter (this is Sophia Charlotte, FW's mom, Cahn, I know it's hard to keep the Sophias straight) are traveling and will be meeting W3 soon.
She's not so philosophical that she wouldn't like to wear a crown, but party politics in England are such that you can never be sure of anything, but she's much obliged to everyone for the offer, etc. etc.
Did you know this, Selena? Did you tell us and I forgot?