Mes amies, you know that Karlchen is little Charles, a form of address hat denotes affection, right?
I'm not sure I've seen Karlchen in particular, but I definitely would have deduced it based on all the other uses of -chen I've seen. The reason my ability to read German so far outstrips my ability to skim German is that I've acquired a bunch of really common roots and affixes, and I'm frequently capable of putting them together in context and figuring out what they mean, but the number of words I can recognize instantaneously without thinking is very small.
Back when I was reading Stollberg-Rilinger, I noticed I kept clicking on "translate", and half a second before the window with the translation opened, the meaning would occur to me.
gave him his personal treasury and the supervision about his household
So, personal treasury as opposed to royal treasury? I mean, it is normal to let your valet manage your household accounts, but I think we'd decided Glasow did *not* have Fredersdorf's treasurer job?
ETA: Aha and shame on me. Not Völker, but Henckel von Donnersmarck, reading his journal entry again, which I just linked to, does mention a "Wöllner"
I would not have remembered that, so good for you for turning it up in your reread!
(Interestingly, Nicolai does not name the Countess Brühl, as opposed to Henckel, Lehndorff and Kalckreuth. Possibly because they are nobles writing their diaries and dictating memoirs and thus not having to fear law suits, whereas Nicolai is a commoner writing for publication?)
Makes sense to me!
Now despite the King tried to improve his valet's behavior through harsh reprimands, threats and punishments
As my fic points out, this may have been not just effect but contributing cause of Glasow's bad behavior. Fritz was not necessarily your dream boss.
Völker had to run the gauntlet twentyfour times
Twenty-four?! I thought that much less than that was fatal, like two or three. It was impressive if you could make it to the end of one without collapsing. Maybe it was like flogging, and if they didn't want to kill you, they spaced out the punishment so that you didn't get the total number of lashes at once, but had a few days to recover and get medical treatment in between floggings. Still, if you're running a gauntlet 24 times, you're going to need months if you're going to survive that.
Okay, German Wikipedia says:
Running the gauntlet six times by 300 men on three days with a double run each day was equal to the death penalty and usually resulted in death.
Maybe Völker had shorter gauntlets? I have a lot of questions about this.
I don't think Kalkreuth is Nicolai's source. (My other reason for doubting it is that Heinrich doesn't get mentioned once in six volumes of anecdotes, and I think if Nicolai had an in with Heinrich's former boyfriend AD, there's be some stories at least co-starring him.
Both arguments make sense to me.
Next: "Karlchen". Glasow's first two names were Christian Friedrich, without a "Carl" (or Karl). However, there was, of course, Carl "Carel" the favoured page, and I suspect in the retellings, he and Glasow might have gotten mixed up somewhat. (It was also Carel who got the teachers.)
Yes, this makes lots of sense and I also suspect this is what happened!
And Nicolai was right in that a poisoning attempt is unlikely to have happened if you look at the punishment
Agreed.
but nothing in Fritz' granting mercy in reaction to Glasow's father's petition makes it sound as if Glasow would only have been in Spandau for a year if he hadn't died.
Also agreed.
In related news, I see that Völker is mentioned in Büsching. Ooh, it looks like he's saying Völker has been mixed up with Glasow. Völker was the coffee maker, but he didn't hand the coffee to Fritz, but to Glasow, who would hand it to Fritz. Büsching says he consulted with secret councilor Schöning, who said that Völker was too smart to try to poison Fritz or even to advise it. What really happened, says Büsching, is that Völker wrote some orders and Glasow sealed them with the King's seal, and so they both got in trouble.
It looooks like Büsching is refuting an anecdote about the poisoning that he read in a collection by Unger (this guy?), which I think I've tried to find before and haven't succeeded.
Okay, wait, I've mostly got it. Stabi has most of the 19 (!) volumes, but not the one we're looking for (volume 18). Hathitrust has it in a combined 17-19 volume, but Hathitrust isn't downloadable except by Royal Patron. And this 3-volume combination is 400 pages and not searchable. Well, I'll see if I can get it out of RP this weekend.
Meanwhile, we have Büsching, Zuverlässige Beyträge, pages 35-36 of the appendix. Supposedly also his Charakter book, page 198, but he says that's the second edition and since I don't see it on page 198 of our copy, we seem to have the first edition (also the title page says nothing about an edition, so this is presumably the first).
Oh, wait, because I can kind-of-sort-of read German (I actually sort of skimmed! In blackletter!), I found it a few pages before. 187-188. Oh, interesting, Büsching (in Charakter) also says Fritz would have let him go around the time of his death. Oh, no wait, he says "Man saget," "it is said that." Well, yes, apparently Nicolai says that too!
Okay, Büsching more or less agrees with Nicolai, in far less detail. And I now have *counts* 32 tabs open. :P
And I think I need to end replying to this comment here (I actually did all this research and wrote this comment this morning, then got sucked into a very eventful 3 hours in the middle of the day, and now need to stop), but I'll be back tomorrow!
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Re: Glasow: the Nicolai version
Date: 2021-02-26 09:51 pm (UTC)I'm not sure I've seen Karlchen in particular, but I definitely would have deduced it based on all the other uses of -chen I've seen. The reason my ability to read German so far outstrips my ability to skim German is that I've acquired a bunch of really common roots and affixes, and I'm frequently capable of putting them together in context and figuring out what they mean, but the number of words I can recognize instantaneously without thinking is very small.
Back when I was reading Stollberg-Rilinger, I noticed I kept clicking on "translate", and half a second before the window with the translation opened, the meaning would occur to me.
gave him his personal treasury and the supervision about his household
So, personal treasury as opposed to royal treasury? I mean, it is normal to let your valet manage your household accounts, but I think we'd decided Glasow did *not* have Fredersdorf's treasurer job?
ETA: Aha and shame on me. Not Völker, but Henckel von Donnersmarck, reading his journal entry again, which I just linked to, does mention a "Wöllner"
I would not have remembered that, so good for you for turning it up in your reread!
(Interestingly, Nicolai does not name the Countess Brühl, as opposed to Henckel, Lehndorff and Kalckreuth. Possibly because they are nobles writing their diaries and dictating memoirs and thus not having to fear law suits, whereas Nicolai is a commoner writing for publication?)
Makes sense to me!
Now despite the King tried to improve his valet's behavior through harsh reprimands, threats and punishments
As my fic points out, this may have been not just effect but contributing cause of Glasow's bad behavior. Fritz was not necessarily your dream boss.
Völker had to run the gauntlet twentyfour times
Twenty-four?! I thought that much less than that was fatal, like two or three. It was impressive if you could make it to the end of one without collapsing. Maybe it was like flogging, and if they didn't want to kill you, they spaced out the punishment so that you didn't get the total number of lashes at once, but had a few days to recover and get medical treatment in between floggings. Still, if you're running a gauntlet 24 times, you're going to need months if you're going to survive that.
Okay, German Wikipedia says:
Running the gauntlet six times by 300 men on three days with a double run each day was equal to the death penalty and usually resulted in death.
Maybe Völker had shorter gauntlets? I have a lot of questions about this.
I don't think Kalkreuth is Nicolai's source. (My other reason for doubting it is that Heinrich doesn't get mentioned once in six volumes of anecdotes, and I think if Nicolai had an in with Heinrich's former boyfriend AD, there's be some stories at least co-starring him.
Both arguments make sense to me.
Next: "Karlchen". Glasow's first two names were Christian Friedrich, without a "Carl" (or Karl). However, there was, of course, Carl "Carel" the favoured page, and I suspect in the retellings, he and Glasow might have gotten mixed up somewhat. (It was also Carel who got the teachers.)
Yes, this makes lots of sense and I also suspect this is what happened!
And Nicolai was right in that a poisoning attempt is unlikely to have happened if you look at the punishment
Agreed.
but nothing in Fritz' granting mercy in reaction to Glasow's father's petition makes it sound as if Glasow would only have been in Spandau for a year if he hadn't died.
Also agreed.
In related news, I see that Völker is mentioned in Büsching. Ooh, it looks like he's saying Völker has been mixed up with Glasow. Völker was the coffee maker, but he didn't hand the coffee to Fritz, but to Glasow, who would hand it to Fritz. Büsching says he consulted with secret councilor Schöning, who said that Völker was too smart to try to poison Fritz or even to advise it. What really happened, says Büsching, is that Völker wrote some orders and Glasow sealed them with the King's seal, and so they both got in trouble.
It looooks like Büsching is refuting an anecdote about the poisoning that he read in a collection by Unger (this guy?), which I think I've tried to find before and haven't succeeded.
Okay, wait, I've mostly got it. Stabi has most of the 19 (!) volumes, but not the one we're looking for (volume 18). Hathitrust has it in a combined 17-19 volume, but Hathitrust isn't downloadable except by Royal Patron. And this 3-volume combination is 400 pages and not searchable. Well, I'll see if I can get it out of RP this weekend.
Meanwhile, we have Büsching, Zuverlässige Beyträge, pages 35-36 of the appendix. Supposedly also his Charakter book, page 198, but he says that's the second edition and since I don't see it on page 198 of our copy, we seem to have the first edition (also the title page says nothing about an edition, so this is presumably the first).
Oh, wait, because I can kind-of-sort-of read German (I actually sort of skimmed! In blackletter!), I found it a few pages before. 187-188. Oh, interesting, Büsching (in Charakter) also says Fritz would have let him go around the time of his death. Oh, no wait, he says "Man saget," "it is said that." Well, yes, apparently Nicolai says that too!
Okay, Büsching more or less agrees with Nicolai, in far less detail. And I now have *counts* 32 tabs open. :P
And I think I need to end replying to this comment here (I actually did all this research and wrote this comment this morning, then got sucked into a very eventful 3 hours in the middle of the day, and now need to stop), but I'll be back tomorrow!