cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 21

Much slower because of world-events/Life-in-general/Yuletide/holidays, but still going!

End of Yuletide signups:
4 requests for Frederician RPF :D :D 2 offers
2 requests for Circle of Voltaire RPF, 2 offers (I hope we did not scare you off, third offer!)

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From:

cahn

ooooh Wilhelmine is my fave and she is so pretty and I LOVE IT. Also like

selenak says, she looks like a super interesting person <3

also holy cow I didn't even know it was possible to do this with colored pencils :D I would love to see more colored pencil work! (especially since -- I really liked the other pictures too, but this sounds like it's way more fun for you!)

From:

cahn

Yay! And lol, this makes me feel less bad that I'm also way behind on comments :P

From:

prinzsorgenfrei

It's what it says on the tin, I made another one. And I crossed something off the request list! Did I just do it to chicken out of drawing a proper monkey? Quite possibly! But I honestly feel like this style fit the situation :'D This kind of reminds me of my Keeping up with the Hohenzollerns days.

Here you go:
images

Also thank you very much for your kind comments on Wilhelmine :D She's honestly the best that came out of this month, artistically.

From:

felis

Ah, yes! The portrait in

selenak's Wilhelmine icon, which at first glance made me think that Wilhelmine decided a black strand of hair would look awesome. ;)
Love your take on it, particularly her face, the sharp and shiny eyes, and the colours. (Also, I've noticed the coarseness effect with pencil drawings before, but I like the result in your case, because it totally works both for her face and for the background.)

From:

felis

That is one demonic monkey! I really like your comic style, and one detail I love here is the smile on Fritz' face while writing to Suhm.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

AAAHHH OMG this is the best! Maniacal Mimi the Monkey, one of my favorite episodes! I can't get over how spoiled I am in this fandom! I request an illustration and you draw it for me! (And I request a book and

cahn buys it for me and

selenak reads it for me, lol.)

One little thing that's totally my fault: that quote "It seems to me that in her place, even with all my reason, I could not have reasoned better, and I would have done the exact same thing," was actually *from* Suhm *to* Fritz. When I first encountered it, I misinterpreted it as from Fritz and reported it as such, and when I realized Suhm had written it, it was too late to edit the original comment, but Rheinsberg has the correct attribution. I thought that was touching in a different way, because Suhm is apparently saying he would have burned the fruits of his own labor if Fritz was ignoring him to read them, because Fritz means more. <33

It's also worth reminding

cahn that it was just a copy of Suhm's work that got burned, not the original, which I suspect is why everyone (except the guy who had to recopy it) was able to be so good-humored about it.

Thank you and keep the drawings coming as long as you're having fun, we love them to bits and pieces! <333

ETA: Oh, and the "Burn After Reading" title is GREEEAAT. :D

Edited Date: 2020-11-26 11:19 pm (UTC)

From:

cahn

hahahaha this is great I love it! :D Mimi the Monkey! :D <3

Your comics are so endearing! :D Well, okay, maybe endearing is the wrong word for Mimi right there in particular... :) but the whole thing is just great :D

I am also part of the cheering section eagerly awaiting your next work!

From:

cahn

ahahahah thank you, yes, it is always worth reminding me because odds are I have forgotten :PP (as was the case here) :)

From:

selenak

It's Mimi time! This, too, is adorable and hilarious. Fritz' facial expression in the last one is priceless. Also, demonic Mimi makes me wonder whether in Philip Pullman's Daemon-verse (aka "His Dark Materials"), she'd have been Fritz' daemon. I know Biche or any other of the whippets would be a more obvious choice, but they're way too nice to match his personality. Mimi, on the other hand...

In conclusion, you spoil us, and I hope you will keep on doing this, for you're incredibly talented!

From:

felis

Tiny Duhan Addendum - once again looking for something else, I came across a December 1735 letter from Wilhelmine, in which she asks if Duhan could come and teach her philosophy: Since there's nobody here to teach me [philosophy], I asked my sister [Charlotte] if Duhan could come here, but he seems to be inseparable from the old duchess*. If you could persuade him to come here, it would delight me infinitely. It would be a great advantage for my mind, and I would be in your debt for this service as for everything else. Aw.
But, unfortunately, and as we know, this didn't happen, presumably too risky, see Fritz' reply: [...] allow me to tell you that I think it would be better to leave Duhan quietly in Blankenburg; otherwise we could re-awaken all the old conflicts of the past.

*the old duchess = Christine-Luise, grandmother of both EC and MT, who lived at Blankenburg as a widow and employed Duhan there. Charlotte calls her la vieille de Blankenbourg in a 1740 letter, who greatly regrets Duhan, and everyone regrets to see him go, although I see him in such good hands that I would be wrong not to let him have this happiness.

From:

felis

Not entirely sure if you guys are aware of this, so I'm just mentioning it here: During my recent reading adventures, I noticed that Fritz' actually wrote Karl - favourite brother-in-law/oldest EC brother/duke - a condolence letter on October 1st already:

My dear brother,
I am very sorry to tell you the disagreeable news of your brother Albert's death. He was too brave. I have often written to my sister that I feared some accident for him. But I can assure you at the same time that he did not shame his family. Prince Ferdinand has outdone himself, and I owe him praise that he contributed so much to the victory of this battle.
I beg you to keep your precious friendship for me, and to be convinced of the great tenderness with which I am, my dear brother, etc.

It's interesting that he bascially expresses the same sentiment (Albert was too reckless and that's why he died) as in his October 9th letter to EC, but not as awfully phrased and not with the same level of defensiveness. And I note that when he's writing to the duke, he'd predicted to his sister this would happen, but when he writes to EC, he'd predicted it to the duke.

From:

selenak

That's highly interesting, that Fritz assumes FW is cool with Duhan being employed by Charlotte (or rather her mother-in-law), but not by Wilhelmine. Though it makes sense, because Wilhelmine is seen as a culprit in the great crime of Fritz education, and Charlotte is not.

Wilhelmine asking for Duhan, btw, confirms that she liked and respected him for his own sake, not just as a "keeps Fritz from ~~boyfriends~~ ~~people who aren't me~~ bad influence" factor.

From:

selenak

Which rather makes it sound as if he didn't predict it to anyone (at least not of the Braunschweig clan), though he may have thought it. And just can't resist saying "I told you so" anyway. Still, this is actually a decent letter, leaving the depressing conclusion that it's the EC factor that changes Fritz' emotional disposition from able to come up with a reasonably (for Fritz) good letter to defensive and awfully phrased. I'm reminded again that the one decent letter apropos AW's death Fritz managed was indirectly to Louise and directly to EC about Louise, i.e. someone who at this point he didn't feel he had to justify himself to (since he knew Louise hadn't loved AW and had no reason to miss him as a person, and EC had no AW feelings, either). Perhaps he thought Duke Karl hadn't been as keen on brother Albert as EC on the earlier occasion?

Oh, and since I've been rereading Catherine the Great's memoirs because reasons, it amused me that little Sophie thought the court at Braunschweig was much more splendid and cultivated than the court at Berlin during FW's era. This is delicious because of the way all the Hohenzollern, male and female alike, and following their lead the Prussian courtiers like Lehndorff, looked down on the Braunschweig sisters as provincial Cinderellas. (Sophie's parents were related to the Braunschweig clan as well, that's why she was often there as a child.)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Huuuhh, yeah, this is super interesting.

Which rather makes it sound as if he didn't predict it to anyone (at least not of the Braunschweig clan), though he may have thought it.

Mmhmmm. Side-eyeing you, Fritz.

Still, this is actually a decent letter, leaving the depressing conclusion that it's the EC factor that changes Fritz' emotional disposition from able to come up with a reasonably (for Fritz) good letter to defensive and awfully phrased.

Yes, with a slight twist that he wrote to Fredersdorf that Albert was died, not much lost there, which strikes me as his true opinion of the guy. So while EC is the odd one out in not getting a condolence letter until October 9th, Karl is the odd one out for the sheer amount of diplomacy wrt Fritz's opinion of the guy. Kinda thinking Fritz is invested in keeping the Duke as ally? Whereas he has no reason to be diplomatic with EC or to hide his real feelings with Fredersdorf.

Perhaps he thought Duke Karl hadn't been as keen on brother Albert as EC on the earlier occasion?

Perhaps. Or perhaps the timing is key: he wrote a diplomatic letter of his own free will to the guy he wanted to keep sending family members and subjects to die for the cause of Fritz, then he didn't want to write about Albert to EC at all, then he felt pressured into doing it at week later. I'm still guessing AW used the words "died in your service."

This is delicious because of the way all the Hohenzollern, male and female alike, and following their lead the Prussian courtiers like Lehndorff, looked down on the Braunschweig sisters as provincial Cinderellas.

To be fair, all of the Hohenzollerns by blood or marriage, starting with SD, looked down on FW as a provincial Cinderella, so I'm not sure they would disagree with Sophie's assessment? Especially if FW was actually in residence when she visited, as opposed to just SD.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Definitely not aware of that, thank you so much!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Yes, that's interesting. Is Wilhelmine also more financially dependent on FW than Charlotte at this point? I wonder if FW meddles in her affairs more, and is more likely to be irritable if Surrogate Father Figure (TM) shows up.

Wilhelmine asking for Duhan, btw, confirms that she liked and respected him for his own sake, not just as a "keeps Fritz from ~~boyfriends~~ ~~people who aren't me~~ bad influence" factor.

Yeah, definitely, and the three other brothers going to Duhan's deathbed shows that opinion was held more generally among FW's offspring ~~most of whom could use a surrogate father figure~~ ~~who wasn't Fritz~~.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Thank you for this as well!

although I see him in such good hands that I would be wrong not to let him have this happiness.

<333

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Voltaire would agree! As I recall, he both said that Fritz was like Luc (his monkey) in that he bites the hand that caresses him, and that he nicknamed Luc "Frederic II". And of course, Fritz had the "Voltaire room" painted with monkeys, so I say they have the same daemons (but we already knew that).

Katte's daemon can be a whippet. <3

Also, I should add that I adore the "...unforeseen complications" line in the comic--that made me laugh so hard!

From:

selenak

Oh, Sophie had met FW earlier (than her first Berlin visit) in Hamburg, when she'd asked why his coat (German: Rock)was so shabby and short, surely as King he could afford a longer one? That was the first and last time her mother risked Sophie meeting FW. But my point is, Sophie thought the entire court, not just FW, i.e. including Monbijou and SD, being not as splendid as the Braunschweig court, which she praises to the sky as the court where she first encountered splendour and ease of company and which gave her her first impressions on how a court should be. And that definitely wasn't an opinion shared by SD and daughters. ;)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Oh, she includes Monbijou? Yes, that is a horse of a different color. :)

From:

felis

leaving the depressing conclusion that it's the EC factor that changes Fritz' emotional disposition from able to come up with a reasonably (for Fritz) good letter to defensive and awfully phrased

then he felt pressured into doing it at week later

Yeah, and it also would make sense to me that, given how their relationship started, Fritz would become even more tone-deaf when he feels like he is being pressured into connecting with her. (Stock phrases might have made both your and EC's life easier in this case, Fritz.)

looked down on FW as a provincial Cinderella

Heee. :-D (Totally reminded of the ballet anecdote now.)

From:

prinzsorgenfrei

Thanks for the correction, I fixed it right away :D

I'm glad you're enjoying my work! I'll definitely make more!
I have some rather clear ideas that would look pretty cool (the widow, the visualization of why Achilles come down is in my playlist, and the Antinous statue, aka "Katte Galore"), but I can't quite figure out the perspectives and poses for those and since I can't meet up with my friends and force them to help me with references, I'll take a while to actually create those . I spent most of my time writing crack fanfiction, but I did create another two very cursed looking images of Heinrich as a present to a friend, but I have not posted them anywhere and I'm not sure I will. I have a reputation to lose :'D

Speaking of Heinrich: My boss gifted me oil paint for filling in on short notice, so I have another new medium to try and thus another portrait to copy. Maybe Heinrich...? I've only ever drawn him in a joking manner before, so this will be interesting :'D Hopefully I'll be able to stop myself from making his wig look too cartoonish.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

This all sounds greeeeat! Best of luck with all your projects, and I'm sure they'll cooperate at some point.

I spent most of my time writing crack fanfiction

I saw! I squeed over the tags: Fritz, Katte, Peter Keith, modern AU, and road trip, all my very favorite things! I've skipped around and read bits and pieces, and laughed and "awwwed" my head off, but I'm going to have to hold off on reading it properly and reviewing it until Yuletide lets up and I have a chance to focus on German practice. But I will!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Ha! So I'm not the only one who thought that was a streak of black hair when I first saw that portrait, long ago, and had to take a closer look. :D

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Okay, I just wanted to say thank you for sharing this and it was fascinating and I still have it bookmarked to reply to--I'm not ignoring you!--but between Yuletide and health, I've decided I need to take a sabbatical from salon until the 25th.

The problem with salon is that I may, strictly speaking, have *time* to work through my backlog of comment replies, but then you all will say interesting things in reply, and then I'll want to reply to those replies, and this will eat up brainpower I badly need for Yuletide. The problem, in other words, is that salon is *too* *awesome*. :)

But I'll be back!