My question is, how much does young Fritz manage to piss off his *dad* in the 1730s, particularly if this marriage lands him in Austria? And what are the consequences of *that*?
How FW would have reacted to a Fritz not just geographically but hierarchically completely out of his control - if Fritz is in Vienna (and assorted other locations all over the HRE which aren't Prussia - as MT's spouse, son-in-law of the Emperor and likely Emperor-in-Waiting is beyond my power to imagine. From the first time his ambassador reports onwards about how HRH had a great time at the public concert last night, playing flute while MT sang, and that's before we get the first letter (in French, of course) saying "Mon cher Papa, have suggested to the Emperor to request loan from our treasury so we can bring the Austrian army up to speed and also build me an extra royal mansion equipped with the latest fashion from Paris, cherio, Fritz".
Charles II/Catherine of Braganza: true, but in addition to not being the heir presumptative of the Portuegese throne she didn't have to convert, and that she was a practicing Catholic was used against her (and him) by Titus Oates et al. (I'm assuming that if they had had surviving children, they'd have been Anglicans, so Catherine's father must have agreed to that in the wedding treaty.
Assume Fritz has been elected Emperor at this time, is pretty clearly not having kids of his own or planning to remarry, is willing to leave her the prestige and nominal power of the titles of the Pragmatic Sanction, but is consolidating power in his own hands and politically sidelining his entire family. In a misogynistic world, with her sense of duty and a more ambitious husband than Franz Stefan, would MT have gone along with this?
Really hard to say. I mean, there's the rl example of her handling Joseph as a co-ruler with great difficulties and by coming out on top more often than not. (cahn, since nominally Franz Stefan was the Emperor and MT "just" his spouse, upon his death Joseph got elected Emperor to co-rule with Mom, so the Salic Law still technically was upheld. However, unlike his father, Joseph wanted to actually, well, rule. And had quite different ideas than his mother did quite often.) But that was older, experienced MT who'd been ruling on her lonesome for decades and knew she could do it, plus she had the advantage of Joseph maybe chaffing to do his own thing, but also respecting the hell out of her. A young MT, without any such experience and an upbringing that told her that of course it was her duty to obey her husband, might have been a very different matter. Then again, she was strong willed even as a girl/young woman, and quite capable of having her own opinions. Plus you just know a lot of nobles both Austrian and Prussian would have formed parties against each other and would have schemed to get her on their side.
(MT really lucked out with Franz Stefan, because I bet most of the available princes would have at least tried to take power from her since tehy were nominally the Emperor, instead of accepting this was her throne and her rule and doing their own - useful, since he was making cash - thing.)
If FW forces him into this marriage because FW is a big fan of the Emperor, then Fritz's brain emphasizes how he despises the long-past-its-glory-days HRE and Catholics and women and possibly the thought of being shipped to Vienna as if *he* were the subordinate partner, and maximum disaster ensues with maximum speed.
Entirely agreed. Especially if he gets told the way Franz Stefan was that he's essentially there as a stud and if he can't even do that right, what is the point of him? (Again, MT lucked out with Franz Stefan, because seven or so years of "look at that whuss from Lorraine, can't even sire boys, just more useless girls!" might have embittered and thus poisoned the marriage in 8 out of ten cases.)
In that scenario, I see MT going for an annulment at top speed, and if she has to blackmail dad into it somehow, so be it.
(The biography reminds me that in rl, the first vaguely not quite insulting thing Fritz said about her - while she was still alive - was "finally the Habsburgs produced a man again, and it's a woman".)
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Re: Nomination coordination redux
Date: 2019-10-01 06:28 am (UTC)How FW would have reacted to a Fritz not just geographically but hierarchically completely out of his control - if Fritz is in Vienna (and assorted other locations all over the HRE which aren't Prussia - as MT's spouse, son-in-law of the Emperor and likely Emperor-in-Waiting is beyond my power to imagine. From the first time his ambassador reports onwards about how HRH had a great time at the public concert last night, playing flute while MT sang, and that's before we get the first letter (in French, of course) saying "Mon cher Papa, have suggested to the Emperor to request loan from our treasury so we can bring the Austrian army up to speed and also build me an extra royal mansion equipped with the latest fashion from Paris, cherio, Fritz".
Charles II/Catherine of Braganza: true, but in addition to not being the heir presumptative of the Portuegese throne she didn't have to convert, and that she was a practicing Catholic was used against her (and him) by Titus Oates et al. (I'm assuming that if they had had surviving children, they'd have been Anglicans, so Catherine's father must have agreed to that in the wedding treaty.
Assume Fritz has been elected Emperor at this time, is pretty clearly not having kids of his own or planning to remarry, is willing to leave her the prestige and nominal power of the titles of the Pragmatic Sanction, but is consolidating power in his own hands and politically sidelining his entire family. In a misogynistic world, with her sense of duty and a more ambitious husband than Franz Stefan, would MT have gone along with this?
Really hard to say. I mean, there's the rl example of her handling Joseph as a co-ruler with great difficulties and by coming out on top more often than not. (
(MT really lucked out with Franz Stefan, because I bet most of the available princes would have at least tried to take power from her since tehy were nominally the Emperor, instead of accepting this was her throne and her rule and doing their own - useful, since he was making cash - thing.)
If FW forces him into this marriage because FW is a big fan of the Emperor, then Fritz's brain emphasizes how he despises the long-past-its-glory-days HRE and Catholics and women and possibly the thought of being shipped to Vienna as if *he* were the subordinate partner, and maximum disaster ensues with maximum speed.
Entirely agreed. Especially if he gets told the way Franz Stefan was that he's essentially there as a stud and if he can't even do that right, what is the point of him? (Again, MT lucked out with Franz Stefan, because seven or so years of "look at that whuss from Lorraine, can't even sire boys, just more useless girls!" might have embittered and thus poisoned the marriage in 8 out of ten cases.)
In that scenario, I see MT going for an annulment at top speed, and if she has to blackmail dad into it somehow, so be it.
(The biography reminds me that in rl, the first vaguely not quite insulting thing Fritz said about her - while she was still alive - was "finally the Habsburgs produced a man again, and it's a woman".)