Re: Mina's diary, we did know, that is, I did, and you must have passively done, because Ziebura quotes from it a couple of times in both her Heinrich and her AW biographies, and of course in the one about the trio of unwanted wives. However, these are always the same quotes - prominently the one lamenting the death of AW, and the one about Ferdinand suddenly changing his behavior towards her from warm friend to coldly distant thereafter - and I think at least the Ferdinand quote I might have mentioned in one of my original write ups.
Anyway: hadn't seen the diary anywhere in German, hence have not read it (other than the quotes), considering all else I had to read. Have now quickly scanned Volz' preface. In which he takes a swipe at the editor of the Voss diary about the same thing I noticed when, upon seeing you have uploaded it as well, I just know read the preface there, too, to which, the editor of the Voss diary sucks in details, not realising that the "Frau von Pannewitz" which Wilhelmine mentions as the FW puncher in her memoirs is the mother of the diarist Fräulein von Pannewitz and later Frau von Voss (and object of AW's crush); instead, he assumes FW lusted after 11 years old Fräulein von Pannewitz, and wonders why she doesn't mention this anywhere in her diary, which, no. There are so many things you can accuse FW of, but pedophilia seriously was not one of them. Volz also chides the editor of the Voss diaries for confusing Mina's "Beautiful Fairy" nickname with another court beauty who was nicknamed "Bella Dea", and so forth and so on.
The Volz preface explains who was who among Mina's courtiers and household members, and among the courtiers she was otherwise close to and mentions in her diary, and gives an overview of the depressing tale of her marriage, which is as well as you can do it without mentioning homosexuality at once. It goes thusly: "So, we don't really know what exactly went wrong between Heinrich and Mina. What is sure is that Fritz thought his brother could only benefit from the education marriage would provide, see Fritz-Wilhelmine letter "marriage to a woman will do him good", my edition page XXX. That was after all arguing with young Heinrich. And look, Fritz let Heinrich choose which of the Hessian princessess he wanted! Also Mina was a great success when she first arrived at court. Everyone loved her. Heinrich for some reason seems to have regarded the marriage as some kind of sacrifice he made in order to get some more freedom from Big Bro, see Lehndorff's diary as translated by my buddy Schmidt-Lötzen, entry about Lehndorff attending Heinrich's wedding. But still, there were some happy years in the marriage. I mean, sure, Kalckreuth claims Heinrich never loved her, but we're all clear on Kalckreuth being a jerk, right? The Mina-AW and Mina-Ferdinand correspondance following these diaries further prove how happy those early years were. For Mina and her brothes-in-law, that is. And then the war happened, and then AW died, and then Heinrich got colder and colder to Mina, and then in the mid 60s they completely separated. But here's my theory: the turning point wasn't AW's death but SD's. Clearly, SD was the one holding the family together! And Heinrich felt free to be enstranged from his wife once his mother wasn't there anymore. You know, like Fritz with EC once FW had kicked it. No, I don't think Mina was at fault. But I'm not going to mention gayness in this preface. I would just like to add I don't think she had sex with Kalckreuth, because Kalckreuth, see above. Also, here's a quote from Ulrike when she was visiting in 1770: she wrote, paraphrased, that she managed to be on good terms with Mina and Heinrich both, but being Ulrike the former recipient of Voltairian love poetry, she naturally did this via quoting form Voltaire's Henriade - "I am on good terms with both Rome and Geneva". Yes, dear reader, I as a Fritz scholar do know my Voltaire by now and can recognize even a casual quote. One more thing regarding the Mina/AW and Mina/Ferdinand letters: the Mina/AW letters show how completely he trusted her, and it can sound quite touching, but pray take all that venting about Fritz in the knowledge that he was wrong and Fritz was right, see my edition of the Fritz/AW correspondance. The Mina/Ferd letters before their fallout demonstrate further that Ferdinand had no thoughts of his own but just repeated Heinrich's opinions on his great brother, because how else to explain all the Fritz critique? Mina, incidentally, does not critisize her noble oldest brother-in-law at all, but sadly despite all the applause he had for her when she married Heinrich, they never seem to hit it off enough for him to correspond with her beyond two or three letters. No, I don't know why. In conclusion: poor Mina. P.S. It's not that I'm no-homo'ing, dear reader, for I do not deny anything, it's just that I don't mention even the possibility, despite simultanously helping my buddy Schmidt-Lötzen decypher Lehndorff's handwriting and French. Look: Fritz scholarship is my chosen calling in life, and I really don't want to piss off the Prussian State Archive in general and the current Hohenzollern family in particular."
Mina's diary, we did know, that is, I did, and you must have passively done, because Ziebura quotes from it a couple of times in both her Heinrich
Touché! Well, that's the sort of thing I easily miss, even when I'm reading in a language I actually know. I mean, having read Blanning, I theoretically passively knew about Other Seckendorff and his diary, and yet had to rediscover it through a completely circuitous route, and then be shocked later to find it had been in Blanning all along. I barely knew Lehndorff had a diary before cahn started asking questions. :P
"Did [Lehndorff] write about Heinrich in his diary??": still the best question asked yet in this fandom. :D
of course in the one about the trio of unwanted wives
Which arrived in the mail today, cahn! (Alongside the letter I very much did not want and vented about in my blog.) And which I will translate when the reading group gets to that point on our reading list. Just wanted to let you know it's been obtained. :D Now just waiting for the sons book. (Seriously, both No Pity for the Wives and No Pity for the Sons could have just been titled: Punching Down: A Hohenzollern Specialty.)
the editor of the Voss diary sucks in details, not realising that the "Frau von Pannewitz" which Wilhelmine mentions as the FW puncher in her memoirs is the mother of the diarist Fräulein von Pannewitz and later Frau von Voss (and object of AW's crush); instead, he assumes FW lusted after 11 years old Fräulein von Pannewitz, and wonders why she doesn't mention this anywhere in her diary, which, no.
Yep, that jumped out at me too. I was going to say something about it the next time I had computer time to talk about the recent uploads (which of course you're on top of already!).
FW as pedophile, yes; also--the timing is wrong! I mean, Wilhelmine is bad at dates, but if she's our only source on this, the date she gives is Fritz's wedding, i.e. 1733, i.e. when little Sophie was 4 years old! The 11 years old thing is simply the last possible date it could be FW. Apparently groping her on his deathbed.
But here's my theory: the turning point wasn't AW's death but SD's. Clearly, SD was the one holding the family together!
Yes, clearly! SD, the writer of "Everyone see what your idiot sister did? Having lunch with that WOMAN?!" letters to her children.
See, Volz, you may be better than the Voss editor at details, but like Koser and Preuss, you have some of the worst theories/opinions.
Look: Fritz scholarship is my chosen calling in life, and I really don't want to piss off the Prussian State Archive in general and the current Hohenzollern family in particular."
Attention Prussia and Prussian rulers! Fritz is always right! *cough*
...I'm so glad we're having our salon in 2020, for a number of reasons.
"Did [Lehndorff] write about Heinrich in his diary??": still the best question asked yet in this fandom. :D
Indeed it was. And I'm still bemused at the fact that not a single review of the 2007 re-edition of volume 1 mentions Heinrich anywhere. I mean. Even the censured volume 1 has "what a man to be worshipped!" and "Beautiful like an angel in his riding pants!"
FW as pedophile, yes; also--the timing is wrong! I mean, Wilhelmine is bad at dates, but if she's our only source on this, the date she gives is Fritz's wedding, i.e. 1733, i.e. when little Sophie was 4 years old! The 11 years old thing is simply the last possible date it could be FW. Apparently groping her on his deathbed.
Behold us, being sure of FW's innocence in something. ;) Seriously though, that guy is bad at both maths and logistics. Re: Wilhelmine being bad with dates; in this particular case, I think the fact she was in Berlin for eight months in late 1732/early 1733 would augur that if it wasn't on the wedding (summer of 1733) exactly, it was likely earlier, not later than that, because it's the kind of gossip Wilhelmine would more likely pick up when she's present as opposed to being told about it in Bayreuth via letter. And she describes FW's stalking of Frau von Pannewitz as something that had been going on for a while, so she might have observed something of it during those months in Berlin. (WHere she did need some distraction from Mom constantly dressing her down and Dad humiliating her husband.)
I'm so glad we are having it now, too. Another thing from the Voss diaries editor - or English translator, I haven't seen from my very quick skimming of the introduction whether it hails from the English translator or the original German editor - is that apparantly a female friend wrote to Sophie about AW's last month of life and death. Which the introduction text then quotes from. And the way she describes it sounds pretty familiar with all the other sources (Amalie's letters, Lehndorff's diary) except for one thing. The letter says that Fritz, upon hearing AW was ill, wrote tenderly to Amalie to convey his best wishes and love to AW. Which - what? Not in any of the preserved letters I've seen, and I should think that if there was such a letter, Preuss and his successors would have printed it poste haste to refute all the voiced and unvoiced accusations about Fritz' attitude towards AW until his death. It also doesn't fit with the letters Fritz simultanously wrote to Wilhelmine and the ones he did write to AW. Like, at all. (ETA: also in the infamous "condolence" letter to Heinrich Fritz starts with saying these death news came as a total surprise to him, i.e. he hadn't known AW was ill.)
Now, I can imagine thath Sophie von Voss, née Pannewitz, had a friend who wanted to convey the bad news to her in a comforting manner, and assure here AW died sort of reconciled to the King. But that's still an extraordinary thing to claim and invent, since it's so easy to refute. (Even Fritz in his own rewriting of the past to Henri de Catt doesn't claim he wrote to give AW his love and get well wishes!) So my alternate theory is that no such letter existed and it was a 19th century addition when the Voss diaries were published to make the national hero look better.
Still one of my favorite quotes from Lehndorff :D well, gosh, I have so many, but I mean. That one it is sort of hard to misinterpret. Unless you are, I guess, an editor... I also love it because of the evidence Heinrich wasn't conventionally beautiful :D
Wow, that's... an interesting letter. I mean, not only easily refutable, but unless Sophie and AW were a lot closer than I imagine they were, I don't really see why this friend would bother to say something like that to her? Like, wouldn't Sophie be more interested in it as (unfortunately tragic) gossip about old acquaintances than as something with marked emotional impact? And now we've seen enough adulteration of primary sources that... yeah, I kinda am going with your alternate theory as well.
unless Sophie and AW were a lot closer than I imagine they were
Well, AW was passionately in love with Sophie and fainted at her wedding, and Sophie had agreed to marry him, only Fritz said no, and rather than have extramarital sex, she decided to tell him no and marry someone else. See here for selenak's writeup. So I could see AW's public humiliation and death having marked emotional impact, even a few years after she married her second choice. Of course, I haven't actually read up to that point in her diary, so I don't know what her feelings were at that point.
Oh riiiiiight, THAT Sophie! I did remember that writeup, I just got confused. OK, thanks :) Yeah, in that case I guess I could see it, though it does still seem a little weird (I mean, the insistence on Fritz making up through Amalie, not writing about AW in general).
Still one of my favorite quotes from Lehndorff :D well, gosh, I have so many, but I mean. That one it is sort of hard to misinterpret. Unless you are, I guess, an editor... I also love it because of the evidence Heinrich wasn't conventionally beautiful :D
If you need a future exact citation, it's December 22, 1753, page 148 in the 2007 reprint of volume 1, and it says: Prince Heinrich comes to dinner in tight riding pants and beautiful like an angel. We are very high spirited. ("Wir sind sehr vergnügt" can also be translated as "we enjoy ourselves a lot".) All the more remarkable since in the previous entry from December 21, Lehndorff reports having had a long conversation with Heinrich that makes him feel very sad. But such is Lehndorff's normal state of being in the first half of the 1750s, all but holding a daisy and going "he loves me, he loves me not". The other entry of Lehndorff's that made us feel curious back in the day before reading the entire diary is cribbed from earlier that year, May 1st and May 2nd 1753, and that's young Lehndorff at his emo best, even m ore so in the full length version of those entries. Context: first AW and then Heinrich are about to leave Berlin. Not for another country! They're just going to Oranienburg and Potsdam respectively. Schönhausen, as a reminder, is where EC resides and Lehndorff is supposed to do his job.
May 1st. The saddest day of my life. The Prince of Prussia goes to Oranienburg, where he'll stay during the King's absence. Pöllnitz visits me and shows me his new memoirs about the last four rulers of our royal house. There are many strange anecdotes. I go to have supper with Prince Heinrich, my heart heavy. Here I dine with the old Baron and Bielfeld. I find it impossible to say a word. I go with the Prince to the Queen, where we have supper. Then I hurry to be alone with this dear Prince. But what a sad meeting! I leave him without having told him a word. I see his tears fall, the dearest of the world. What a man to be worshipped! What a loss for me! Yes, I swear eternal devotion to you! I return home without consolation. I can't sleep. I write a letter to the Prince.
May 2nd. I rise early. The Prince writes a letter to me which makes me melt into tears. I jump on a horse and want to rush to him. When I see his carriage from afar, I hide behind a house; for my heart would have burst into pieces if I had seen him. I go to Schönhausen, where I walk full of sadness. I return home and write a very sad letter to another person.* I could never have believed that it is possible to be so devoted to another man. But what a man it is I have to leave! In pagan times, they would have made him a god, in our time, all who know him build altars to him in their hearts.
*Asteriks: Schmidt-Lötzen tells us older Lehndorff annotated this to say his younger self meant Countess Bentinck, who as you may recall was on a vain quest for Heinrich herself at that time.
I see his tears fall, the dearest of the world. What a man to be worshipped! What a loss for me! Yes, I swear eternal devotion to you!
Wait, I know you've excerpted this for us before and somehow either I missed the swearing eternal devotion or I forgot it. <33333333333333333333333
In pagan times, they would have made him a god, in our time, all who know him build altars to him in their hearts.
except all of Heinrich's actual lovers Awwwwwwww!
*Asteriks: Schmidt-Lötzen tells us older Lehndorff annotated this to say his younger self meant Countess Bentinck, who as you may recall was on a vain quest for Heinrich herself at that time.
That is amazingly hilarious. Now I'm just imagining Lehndorff and Countess Bentinck having soulful conversations (both in letter and in person) about Heinrich and how beautiful and unattainable he is :D
Eternal devotion: "ewige Anhänglichkeit" in German, and who knows what in French. The thing is, I bet a great many guys in their early 20s swear something like that in the heat of passion, but Lehndorff is one of the few whom we know to have kept this vow for their remaining life.
except all of Heinrich's actual lovers
Marwitz: You try building altars to the King's younger brother when the King is looking over your shoulder the entire time. Go on. I dare you. Reisewitz: Look, I swear I did adore him. Okay, so I was the first to spend lots of his money in dubious ways, but look at all the gardening I did at Rheinsberg! Also, I offed myself when the debts grew too many. Because I was sorry. Lamberg: He dumped me for goddam Kalckreuth. That put an end to any altars right then and there. Kalckreuth: I could have had the King, I'm sure of it, and I picked Heinrich anyway. That was mighty generous of me. Also I was the true military genius. And I gave him an excuse to separate from Mina. What did I get? I mean, other than lots of presents and promotions through the war. I got dumped for Kaphengst! Of all the indignities. Kaphengst: I put a portrait of him on the wall of the nice country palace he bought me. Does that qualify? Mara: You don't get anywhere with this prince if you don't behave like a bastard towards him. #canon Tauentzien: I don't know about altars, but I did get him to watch contemporary theatre, starring his brother. Antoine de la Roche-Raymon: Heinrich was the best, and I adored him. Why Lehndorff wouldn't believe I did, I have no idea. #finalguy
Now I'm just imagining Lehndorff and Countess Bentinck having soulful conversations (both in letter and in person) about Heinrich and how beautiful and unattainable he is :D
Your imagination is closer to the reality as depicted in the relevant diary entries than Charlotte Pangels, based on those same diary entries, imagining Lehndorff as a yenta shipping Heinrich/Bentinck. Mind you, later when Lehndorff was in one of his "he loves me not/he's so cold towards me, I just know it's all over!" parts of the cycle, they also bitched about him together, until she took off to greener pastures since her efforts to get Fritz to support her politically had failed as well.
LOOOL at the boyfriends! Heinrich sure knew how to pick 'em.
A great many guys in their early 20s swear something like that in the heat of passion, but Lehndorff is one of the few whom we know to have kept this vow for their remaining life.
I keep rereading this and laughing, and it occurred to me--I kind of want to put this in rheinsberg, because someday, Ziebura will not be fresh in my memory, and I know that before I read the Heinrich bio, I had a lot of trouble keeping the boyfriends and their order straight. And this is a perfect mnemonic!
I'd really like to take all the ficlets and wacky fic premises we've produced and put them somewhere... either in rheinsberg or on AO3. Because there are so many brilliant things! And I don't know where to find half of them anymore :(
okay I know I am coming to this late (the weekend was busier than I was expecting) but OMG THIS IS SO GREAT
Marwitz: You try building altars to the King's younger brother when the King is looking over your shoulder the entire time. Go on. I dare you.
HAHAHAHA! Okay, Marwitz, I'll give you that. That would be kinda difficult.
Also, I offed myself when the debts grew too many. Because I was sorry.
Um, okay... :)
I could have had the King, I'm sure of it, and I picked Heinrich anyway. That was mighty generous of me.
HAHAHAHA I suppose it was. In some sort of way.
Also I was the true military genius. And I gave him an excuse to separate from Mina.
LOLOLOLOL
Kaphengst: I put a portrait of him on the wall of the nice country palace he bought me. Does that qualify?
This is the part where I laughed out loud and D was like "what's so funny?" and I was like... "umm... it is one of those things where it would take quite a long time and a book in German to give you the context you'd need to appreciate it. But anyway it's one of my Fritz friends who wrote something really funny" and fortunately he accepted that or I'd still be here explaining it to him
Tauentzien: I don't know about altars, but I did get him to watch contemporary theatre, starring his brother.
*facepalm*
Heinrich was the best, and I adored him.
<333333 :D
The thing is, I bet a great many guys in their early 20s swear something like that in the heat of passion, but Lehndorff is one of the few whom we know to have kept this vow for their remaining life.
*nods* Yes, that's why I love Lehndorff so much <333333 *snuggly sparkly hearts* (and also why he is so hilarious -- it's partially, too, because with all that his thing for Heinrich doesn't get mentioned by all these editors??
Oh, the editor (Schmidt-Lötzen) mentions it, alright (as in: "to him, Heinrich was the Prince" or "when the author of these writings bursts into tears as the prospect of his beloved Prince Heinrich leaving Berlin for a few days, it is one more sign of a sentimental era"), it's just the reviewers of the 2007 re-edition of the first volume don't.
Something else that occured to me when thinking of the gallery of (known) Heinrich boyfriends: what's missing there is any type of erastes. Whereas Fritz has his sugar daddies as crown prince, complete with double Socrates/Alcibiades present for Mantteufel and Voltaire, and all the Suhm adoration. But while you could argue Heinrich himself played the erastes role in his late life affairs, in his youth he really seems at no point have wanted an older man to show him the ropes, so to speak. Either as a mentor or a lover, let alone both. If Ziebura is right about Marwitz being his first love, he starts with a guy three years older and keeps within his own generation until he hits middle life. Which is interesting in a man whom people, including Ziebura, assume to have had a kink for being dominated by his sex partners.
Ooh, I have so many things I want to say but I can't! The erastes point is very interesting, and not one I had noticed! I'll limit myself to:
1) I have never been convinced Heinrich was into being dominated. It's one possible explanation, of course, and one that I definitely find hot, but I think there are too many alternate explanations, at least given the limited evidence I have at my disposal. Ziebura may have a more accurate picture.
2) Hypothesis: Heinrich consistently started relationships with guys in their early 20s, whether he was 19 or 60. Counterevidence, selenak? I don't know all his boyfriends' birthdates, nor do I know when all the relationships started.
If so, possible evidence that sexual passion played a much stronger (although not exclusive) role in his relationships, compared to Fritz, who was a little more all over the place.
In addition to Voltaire, Manteuffel, and Suhm, let's not forget Katte was 26 when Fritz was 18, and Lt. Borcke, possible candidate for boyfriend and at the very least, close relationship, was, 10 years older than Fritz, so 25 when Fritz was 15. And it's been pointed out that the Rheinsberg circle, even the non-boyfriends, were by and large a generation older than Fritz. Fritz was definitely drawn to older mentors when he was younger, along with older romantic, maybe sexual partners.
Heinrich was indeed the Prince to our darling Lehndorff, glad to be wrong on that front :D (although lol to the "sentimental era") But this really shakes my faith in reviewers. How could they miss the biggest thing in Lehndorff's life??
Eeeeeee one of my Favorite Things Ever is your awesome synopses :DDDDDDD
I mean, sure, Kalckreuth claims Heinrich never loved her, but we're all clear on Kalckreuth being a jerk, right?
LOLOLOLOL
Clearly, SD was the one holding the family together!
That is... sure a theory, there.
No, I don't think Mina was at fault. But I'm not going to mention gayness in this preface. I would just like to add I don't think she had sex with Kalckreuth, because Kalckreuth, see above.
HAHAHAHAHAHA and also wow to all the dancing around.
P.S. It's not that I'm no-homo'ing, dear reader, for I do not deny anything, it's just that I don't mention even the possibility, despite simultanously helping my buddy Schmidt-Lötzen decypher Lehndorff's handwriting and French. Look: Fritz scholarship is my chosen calling in life, and I really don't want to piss off the Prussian State Archive in general and the current Hohenzollern family in particular."
Wow, you have gotten me both to laugh uncontrollably and to make me feel for Volz. That is an accomplishment <3
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rheinsberg
Re: Lehndorff
Anyway: hadn't seen the diary anywhere in German, hence have not read it (other than the quotes), considering all else I had to read. Have now quickly scanned Volz' preface. In which he takes a swipe at the editor of the Voss diary about the same thing I noticed when, upon seeing you have uploaded it as well, I just know read the preface there, too, to which, the editor of the Voss diary sucks in details, not realising that the "Frau von Pannewitz" which Wilhelmine mentions as the FW puncher in her memoirs is the mother of the diarist Fräulein von Pannewitz and later Frau von Voss (and object of AW's crush); instead, he assumes FW lusted after 11 years old Fräulein von Pannewitz, and wonders why she doesn't mention this anywhere in her diary, which, no. There are so many things you can accuse FW of, but pedophilia seriously was not one of them. Volz also chides the editor of the Voss diaries for confusing Mina's "Beautiful Fairy" nickname with another court beauty who was nicknamed "Bella Dea", and so forth and so on.
The Volz preface explains who was who among Mina's courtiers and household members, and among the courtiers she was otherwise close to and mentions in her diary, and gives an overview of the depressing tale of her marriage, which is as well as you can do it without mentioning homosexuality at once. It goes thusly: "So, we don't really know what exactly went wrong between Heinrich and Mina. What is sure is that Fritz thought his brother could only benefit from the education marriage would provide, see Fritz-Wilhelmine letter "marriage to a woman will do him good", my edition page XXX. That was after all arguing with young Heinrich. And look, Fritz let Heinrich choose which of the Hessian princessess he wanted! Also Mina was a great success when she first arrived at court. Everyone loved her. Heinrich for some reason seems to have regarded the marriage as some kind of sacrifice he made in order to get some more freedom from Big Bro, see Lehndorff's diary as translated by my buddy Schmidt-Lötzen, entry about Lehndorff attending Heinrich's wedding. But still, there were some happy years in the marriage. I mean, sure, Kalckreuth claims Heinrich never loved her, but we're all clear on Kalckreuth being a jerk, right? The Mina-AW and Mina-Ferdinand correspondance following these diaries further prove how happy those early years were. For Mina and her brothes-in-law, that is. And then the war happened, and then AW died, and then Heinrich got colder and colder to Mina, and then in the mid 60s they completely separated. But here's my theory: the turning point wasn't AW's death but SD's. Clearly, SD was the one holding the family together! And Heinrich felt free to be enstranged from his wife once his mother wasn't there anymore. You know, like Fritz with EC once FW had kicked it. No, I don't think Mina was at fault. But I'm not going to mention gayness in this preface. I would just like to add I don't think she had sex with Kalckreuth, because Kalckreuth, see above. Also, here's a quote from Ulrike when she was visiting in 1770: she wrote, paraphrased, that she managed to be on good terms with Mina and Heinrich both, but being Ulrike the former recipient of Voltairian love poetry, she naturally did this via quoting form Voltaire's Henriade - "I am on good terms with both Rome and Geneva". Yes, dear reader, I as a Fritz scholar do know my Voltaire by now and can recognize even a casual quote.
One more thing regarding the Mina/AW and Mina/Ferdinand letters: the Mina/AW letters show how completely he trusted her, and it can sound quite touching, but pray take all that venting about Fritz in the knowledge that he was wrong and Fritz was right, see my edition of the Fritz/AW correspondance. The Mina/Ferd letters before their fallout demonstrate further that Ferdinand had no thoughts of his own but just repeated Heinrich's opinions on his great brother, because how else to explain all the Fritz critique? Mina, incidentally, does not critisize her noble oldest brother-in-law at all, but sadly despite all the applause he had for her when she married Heinrich, they never seem to hit it off enough for him to correspond with her beyond two or three letters. No, I don't know why. In conclusion: poor Mina. P.S. It's not that I'm no-homo'ing, dear reader, for I do not deny anything, it's just that I don't mention even the possibility, despite simultanously helping my buddy Schmidt-Lötzen decypher Lehndorff's handwriting and French. Look: Fritz scholarship is my chosen calling in life, and I really don't want to piss off the Prussian State Archive in general and the current Hohenzollern family in particular."
Re: Lehndorff
Touché! Well, that's the sort of thing I easily miss, even when I'm reading in a language I actually know. I mean, having read Blanning, I theoretically passively knew about Other Seckendorff and his diary, and yet had to rediscover it through a completely circuitous route, and then be shocked later to find it had been in Blanning all along. I barely knew Lehndorff had a diary before
"Did [Lehndorff] write about Heinrich in his diary??": still the best question asked yet in this fandom. :D
of course in the one about the trio of unwanted wives
Which arrived in the mail today,
the editor of the Voss diary sucks in details, not realising that the "Frau von Pannewitz" which Wilhelmine mentions as the FW puncher in her memoirs is the mother of the diarist Fräulein von Pannewitz and later Frau von Voss (and object of AW's crush); instead, he assumes FW lusted after 11 years old Fräulein von Pannewitz, and wonders why she doesn't mention this anywhere in her diary, which, no.
Yep, that jumped out at me too. I was going to say something about it the next time I had computer time to talk about the recent uploads (which of course you're on top of already!).
FW as pedophile, yes; also--the timing is wrong! I mean, Wilhelmine is bad at dates, but if she's our only source on this, the date she gives is Fritz's wedding, i.e. 1733, i.e. when little Sophie was 4 years old! The 11 years old thing is simply the last possible date it could be FW. Apparently groping her on his deathbed.
But here's my theory: the turning point wasn't AW's death but SD's. Clearly, SD was the one holding the family together!
Yes, clearly! SD, the writer of "Everyone see what your idiot sister did? Having lunch with that WOMAN?!" letters to her children.
See, Volz, you may be better than the Voss editor at details, but like Koser and Preuss, you have some of the worst theories/opinions.
Look: Fritz scholarship is my chosen calling in life, and I really don't want to piss off the Prussian State Archive in general and the current Hohenzollern family in particular."
Attention Prussia and Prussian rulers! Fritz is always right! *cough*
...I'm so glad we're having our salon in 2020, for a number of reasons.
Thank you for the write-up!
Re: Lehndorff
Indeed it was. And I'm still bemused at the fact that not a single review of the 2007 re-edition of volume 1 mentions Heinrich anywhere. I mean. Even the censured volume 1 has "what a man to be worshipped!" and "Beautiful like an angel in his riding pants!"
FW as pedophile, yes; also--the timing is wrong! I mean, Wilhelmine is bad at dates, but if she's our only source on this, the date she gives is Fritz's wedding, i.e. 1733, i.e. when little Sophie was 4 years old! The 11 years old thing is simply the last possible date it could be FW. Apparently groping her on his deathbed.
Behold us, being sure of FW's innocence in something. ;) Seriously though, that guy is bad at both maths and logistics. Re: Wilhelmine being bad with dates; in this particular case, I think the fact she was in Berlin for eight months in late 1732/early 1733 would augur that if it wasn't on the wedding (summer of 1733) exactly, it was likely earlier, not later than that, because it's the kind of gossip Wilhelmine would more likely pick up when she's present as opposed to being told about it in Bayreuth via letter. And she describes FW's stalking of Frau von Pannewitz as something that had been going on for a while, so she might have observed something of it during those months in Berlin. (WHere she did need some distraction from Mom constantly dressing her down and Dad humiliating her husband.)
I'm so glad we are having it now, too. Another thing from the Voss diaries editor - or English translator, I haven't seen from my very quick skimming of the introduction whether it hails from the English translator or the original German editor - is that apparantly a female friend wrote to Sophie about AW's last month of life and death. Which the introduction text then quotes from. And the way she describes it sounds pretty familiar with all the other sources (Amalie's letters, Lehndorff's diary) except for one thing. The letter says that Fritz, upon hearing AW was ill, wrote tenderly to Amalie to convey his best wishes and love to AW. Which - what? Not in any of the preserved letters I've seen, and I should think that if there was such a letter, Preuss and his successors would have printed it poste haste to refute all the voiced and unvoiced accusations about Fritz' attitude towards AW until his death. It also doesn't fit with the letters Fritz simultanously wrote to Wilhelmine and the ones he did write to AW. Like, at all.
(ETA: also in the infamous "condolence" letter to Heinrich Fritz starts with saying these death news came as a total surprise to him, i.e. he hadn't known AW was ill.)
Now, I can imagine thath Sophie von Voss, née Pannewitz, had a friend who wanted to convey the bad news to her in a comforting manner, and assure here AW died sort of reconciled to the King. But that's still an extraordinary thing to claim and invent, since it's so easy to refute. (Even Fritz in his own rewriting of the past to Henri de Catt doesn't claim he wrote to give AW his love and get well wishes!) So my alternate theory is that no such letter existed and it was a 19th century addition when the Voss diaries were published to make the national hero look better.
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Still one of my favorite quotes from Lehndorff :D well, gosh, I have so many, but I mean. That one it is sort of hard to misinterpret. Unless you are, I guess, an editor... I also love it because of the evidence Heinrich wasn't conventionally beautiful :D
Wow, that's... an interesting letter. I mean, not only easily refutable, but unless Sophie and AW were a lot closer than I imagine they were, I don't really see why this friend would bother to say something like that to her? Like, wouldn't Sophie be more interested in it as (unfortunately tragic) gossip about old acquaintances than as something with marked emotional impact? And now we've seen enough adulteration of primary sources that... yeah, I kinda am going with your alternate theory as well.
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Well, AW was passionately in love with Sophie and fainted at her wedding, and Sophie had agreed to marry him, only Fritz said no, and rather than have extramarital sex, she decided to tell him no and marry someone else. See here for
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If you need a future exact citation, it's December 22, 1753, page 148 in the 2007 reprint of volume 1, and it says: Prince Heinrich comes to dinner in tight riding pants and beautiful like an angel. We are very high spirited. ("Wir sind sehr vergnügt" can also be translated as "we enjoy ourselves a lot".) All the more remarkable since in the previous entry from December 21, Lehndorff reports having had a long conversation with Heinrich that makes him feel very sad. But such is Lehndorff's normal state of being in the first half of the 1750s, all but holding a daisy and going "he loves me, he loves me not". The other entry of Lehndorff's that made us feel curious back in the day before reading the entire diary is cribbed from earlier that year, May 1st and May 2nd 1753, and that's young Lehndorff at his emo best, even m ore so in the full length version of those entries. Context: first AW and then Heinrich are about to leave Berlin. Not for another country! They're just going to Oranienburg and Potsdam respectively. Schönhausen, as a reminder, is where EC resides and Lehndorff is supposed to do his job.
May 1st. The saddest day of my life. The Prince of Prussia goes to Oranienburg, where he'll stay during the King's absence. Pöllnitz visits me and shows me his new memoirs about the last four rulers of our royal house. There are many strange anecdotes. I go to have supper with Prince Heinrich, my heart heavy. Here I dine with the old Baron and Bielfeld. I find it impossible to say a word. I go with the Prince to the Queen, where we have supper. Then I hurry to be alone with this dear Prince. But what a sad meeting! I leave him without having told him a word. I see his tears fall, the dearest of the world. What a man to be worshipped! What a loss for me! Yes, I swear eternal devotion to you! I return home without consolation. I can't sleep. I write a letter to the Prince.
May 2nd. I rise early. The Prince writes a letter to me which makes me melt into tears. I jump on a horse and want to rush to him. When I see his carriage from afar, I hide behind a house; for my heart would have burst into pieces if I had seen him. I go to Schönhausen, where I walk full of sadness. I return home and write a very sad letter to another person.* I could never have believed that it is possible to be so devoted to another man. But what a man it is I have to leave! In pagan times, they would have made him a god, in our time, all who know him build altars to him in their hearts.
*Asteriks: Schmidt-Lötzen tells us older Lehndorff annotated this to say his younger self meant Countess Bentinck, who as you may recall was on a vain quest for Heinrich herself at that time.
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Wait, I know you've excerpted this for us before and somehow either I missed the swearing eternal devotion or I forgot it. <33333333333333333333333
In pagan times, they would have made him a god, in our time, all who know him build altars to him in their hearts.
except all of Heinrich's actual loversAwwwwwwww!*Asteriks: Schmidt-Lötzen tells us older Lehndorff annotated this to say his younger self meant Countess Bentinck, who as you may recall was on a vain quest for Heinrich herself at that time.
That is amazingly hilarious. Now I'm just imagining Lehndorff and Countess Bentinck having soulful conversations (both in letter and in person) about Heinrich and how beautiful and unattainable he is :D
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except all of Heinrich's actual loversMarwitz: You try building altars to the King's younger brother when the King is looking over your shoulder the entire time. Go on. I dare you.
Reisewitz: Look, I swear I did adore him. Okay, so I was the first to spend lots of his money in dubious ways, but look at all the gardening I did at Rheinsberg! Also, I offed myself when the debts grew too many. Because I was sorry.
Lamberg: He dumped me for goddam Kalckreuth. That put an end to any altars right then and there.
Kalckreuth: I could have had the King, I'm sure of it, and I picked Heinrich anyway. That was mighty generous of me. Also I was the true military genius. And I gave him an excuse to separate from Mina. What did I get? I mean, other than lots of presents and promotions through the war. I got dumped for Kaphengst! Of all the indignities.
Kaphengst: I put a portrait of him on the wall of the nice country palace he bought me. Does that qualify?
Mara: You don't get anywhere with this prince if you don't behave like a bastard towards him. #canon
Tauentzien: I don't know about altars, but I did get him to watch contemporary theatre, starring his brother.
Antoine de la Roche-Raymon: Heinrich was the best, and I adored him. Why Lehndorff wouldn't believe I did, I have no idea. #finalguy
Now I'm just imagining Lehndorff and Countess Bentinck having soulful conversations (both in letter and in person) about Heinrich and how beautiful and unattainable he is :D
Your imagination is closer to the reality as depicted in the relevant diary entries than Charlotte Pangels, based on those same diary entries, imagining Lehndorff as a yenta shipping Heinrich/Bentinck. Mind you, later when Lehndorff was in one of his "he loves me not/he's so cold towards me, I just know it's all over!" parts of the cycle, they also bitched about him together, until she took off to greener pastures since her efforts to get Fritz to support her politically had failed as well.
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A great many guys in their early 20s swear something like that in the heat of passion, but Lehndorff is one of the few whom we know to have kept this vow for their remaining life.
Some manage it by dying in their mid 20s. </3
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Okay, posted! You remain, as always, the best.
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Marwitz: You try building altars to the King's younger brother when the King is looking over your shoulder the entire time. Go on. I dare you.
HAHAHAHA! Okay, Marwitz, I'll give you that. That would be kinda difficult.
Also, I offed myself when the debts grew too many. Because I was sorry.
Um, okay... :)
I could have had the King, I'm sure of it, and I picked Heinrich anyway. That was mighty generous of me.
HAHAHAHA I suppose it was. In some sort of way.
Also I was the true military genius. And I gave him an excuse to separate from Mina.
LOLOLOLOL
Kaphengst: I put a portrait of him on the wall of the nice country palace he bought me. Does that qualify?
This is the part where I laughed out loud and D was like "what's so funny?" and I was like... "umm... it is one of those things where it would take quite a long time
and a book in Germanto give you the context you'd need to appreciate it. But anyway it's one of my Fritz friends who wrote something really funny" and fortunately he accepted that or I'd still be here explaining it to himTauentzien: I don't know about altars, but I did get him to watch contemporary theatre, starring his brother.
*facepalm*
Heinrich was the best, and I adored him.
<333333 :D
The thing is, I bet a great many guys in their early 20s swear something like that in the heat of passion, but Lehndorff is one of the few whom we know to have kept this vow for their remaining life.
*nods* Yes, that's why I love Lehndorff so much <333333 *snuggly sparkly hearts* (and also why he is so hilarious -- it's partially, too, because with all that his thing for Heinrich doesn't get mentioned by all these editors??
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Something else that occured to me when thinking of the gallery of (known) Heinrich boyfriends: what's missing there is any type of erastes. Whereas Fritz has his sugar daddies as crown prince, complete with double Socrates/Alcibiades present for Mantteufel and Voltaire, and all the Suhm adoration. But while you could argue Heinrich himself played the erastes role in his late life affairs, in his youth he really seems at no point have wanted an older man to show him the ropes, so to speak. Either as a mentor or a lover, let alone both. If Ziebura is right about Marwitz being his first love, he starts with a guy three years older and keeps within his own generation until he hits middle life. Which is interesting in a man whom people, including Ziebura, assume to have had a kink for being dominated by his sex partners.
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1) I have never been convinced Heinrich was into being dominated. It's one possible explanation, of course, and one that I definitely find hot, but I think there are too many alternate explanations, at least given the limited evidence I have at my disposal. Ziebura may have a more accurate picture.
2) Hypothesis: Heinrich consistently started relationships with guys in their early 20s, whether he was 19 or 60. Counterevidence,
If so, possible evidence that sexual passion played a much stronger (although not exclusive) role in his relationships, compared to Fritz, who was a little more all over the place.
In addition to Voltaire, Manteuffel, and Suhm, let's not forget Katte was 26 when Fritz was 18, and Lt. Borcke, possible candidate for boyfriend and at the very least, close relationship, was, 10 years older than Fritz, so 25 when Fritz was 15. And it's been pointed out that the Rheinsberg circle, even the non-boyfriends, were by and large a generation older than Fritz. Fritz was definitely drawn to older mentors when he was younger, along with older romantic, maybe sexual partners.
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I am so delighted by the results of this :D
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I mean, sure, Kalckreuth claims Heinrich never loved her, but we're all clear on Kalckreuth being a jerk, right?
LOLOLOLOL
Clearly, SD was the one holding the family together!
That is... sure a theory, there.
No, I don't think Mina was at fault. But I'm not going to mention gayness in this preface. I would just like to add I don't think she had sex with Kalckreuth, because Kalckreuth, see above.
HAHAHAHAHAHA and also wow to all the dancing around.
P.S. It's not that I'm no-homo'ing, dear reader, for I do not deny anything, it's just that I don't mention even the possibility, despite simultanously helping my buddy Schmidt-Lötzen decypher Lehndorff's handwriting and French. Look: Fritz scholarship is my chosen calling in life, and I really don't want to piss off the Prussian State Archive in general and the current Hohenzollern family in particular."
Wow, you have gotten me both to laugh uncontrollably and to make me feel for Volz. That is an accomplishment <3