I can't believe I almost decided not to read past the War of the Spanish Succession in the Philip V bio! (Mostly because the only e-book I can find is archive.org, and I find the interface insanely difficult to work with.) I had completely forgotten that Rottemborg was envoy to Spain during Philip's reign, and I would get a whole lot of context for things relevant to my fix-it fic, if nothing else.
selenak, remember when you told us that Morgenstern said Rottembourg said he missed FW's Prussian when he was in Madrid? And we decided it was one of Morgenstern's sarcasms? I now actually believe it! Not that he loved Prussia so much--I've just confirmed he asked for his leave on all three of his missions, in one case within a few months of arrival--but I didn't realize that both Rottembourg's missions to Spain corresponded with the absolute nadir of Philip's mental health, and the effect was torture on ambassadors:
First mission (October 1727-April 1728) Rottembourg appears to have escaped before matters peaked in June, but I also don't know exactly when certain symptoms began. What I've got is this:
May 1727 - end of 1727: Philip V severely depressed, unwilling to speak to his ministers. Will listen to reports, but "no sign of hearing other than a gesture now and then or a fleeting smile."
Early 1728: Back in business, but severe attacks. Doesn't see ministers for weeks at a time, and then will only see them at night, and will keep them up until dawn. Audiences with ambassadors are held at midnight.
June is when he starts wanting to abdicate for the second time. (Remember, he abdicated once, gave the throne to his son, and his son died of smallpox after about 7 months.) His wife, Isabella, tries to prevent him. She has all writing implements removed, and keeps a close guard on him. So Philip tries escaping by sneaking out at 5 am, while she's asleep, and flees the palace in his nightshirt. She has the guards stop him, changes the locks, and gives the guards orders not to let him escape, but he tries this several times.
Finally, on June 28, he sneaks some paper while Isabella's in another room for a minute, writes out his abdication, and has his most trusted servant smuggle it into the council. The council session is discussing it when Isabella's messenger arrives, confiscates the piece of paper, and destroys it.
During this summer, and I don't know how early it started and whether some of them would have been affecting Rottembourg by April, but we've got these symptoms:
* Giving audiences to ambassadors either in his nightshirt or almost naked. * Paranoia, delusions, and hallucinations. * Biting himself. * Screaming and/or singing. * Urinating and defecating in bed. * Believing he's a frog (July). (Rottembourg's replacement as ambassador arrived in June. Man, I don't envy him.) * Believing that he's dead. * Bulimia.
Rottembourg gets the hell out just in time, it seems. But he's back in 1730, which is when things are really crazy, and for a much longer time.
Second mission: (December 1730-April 1734) During most of this time, the court isn't in Madrid, it's in Andalusia, and it's peripatetic. This is Isabella's idea for how to make Philip's mental health improve: change of scenery.
This means tons of expenses for the ambassadors. Ambassadors were notoriously in arrears for their salaries, and most were rich and the rest supported by their families. Random expenses like "The King decided to move his court" have to be covered out of pocket. So Rottembourg, who was himself very rich, had to sell property to cover these years.
And then there's the part where summer 1730 is when Philip's mental health crashes again. He's severely depressed, bulimic, and consuming vast amounts of poison antidotes (I don't know the details) because of his paranoia. He's convinced that his stools contain blood; when he inspects them and they aren't, he accuses the doctors of concealing the blood. His toenails get so long it's difficult to walk. He won't let anyone do his hair, so it turns into a complete mess. He smells terrible. His only entertainment is fishing...in his garden...at night...from a bowl that his attendants have placed fish in.
But he won't give up power, either. He walks around muttering, "I'm the boss here" (Je suis le maître), and making things difficult to prove it. If you give him a stack of papers to be signed in a certain order, he'll rearrange the papers when you're not looking.
And, of course, he's conducting all business at night. Upon arriving, Rottembourg describes the situation as "incomprehensible", and complains about being kept in meetings until 6 am. Meanwhile, Isabella is trying to conduct a normal life during the day and take care of her husband and help him with state business at night.
June 1731: Rottembourg reports that he shows up for an audience at night, but the queen has collapsed from exhaustion and is fast asleep, and Philip hasn't slept in 48 hours. So Rottembourg waits until 7 am, at which point he's told they can't see him until 5:30 pm.
By July, Philip is getting one hour of sleep a night, his legs are swollen, and everyone's convinced he's going to die.
A year later, after a brief manic episode, he's back to depressed, with no hygiene, and refusing to talk to anyone because he's dead. Also, he's extremely concerned that because he had abdicated, then became king again after his son died, his rule is invalid. By not talking, he can avoid ruling!
In October 1732, he decides he's going to talk, but only to his valet. He then starts explaining how he's going to unite the crowns of France and Spain to his valet...but no one else.
In November, he breaks his streak of not talking to ministers and ambassadors by insisting that he needs to talk to Rottembourg. "The startled count was presented with the spectacle of a king with clothing completely disordered, with a long and filthy beard, and wearing no trousers or shoes, his legs and feet naked."
This is the kind of thing that could make you miss FW forcing you to get drunk!
In conclusion, Rottembourg may well have been quoted as saying, "However bad Berlin was, it was better than Madrid!" (At least there was the SD court in Berlin when FW was away.)
Rottembourg's Health or "Health" Rottembourg's health, btw, is bad; in 1733 he starts requesting his recall, in 1734 it's granted, and in 1735 he dies. Did the stay in Spain make it worse? Who knows, but it can't have helped.
Speaking of his health, I've now refreshed my memory that during his first two missions to Berlin, he requested recall on the grounds of his health and the Berlin climate, and the third time, he requested permission for a short leave to take care of some personal affairs, which turned into a permanent absence. But as we've seen, most Frexits proceeded officially by complaining about the climate of Berlin, not complaints about the King!
Katte Visits Rottembourg?? Also, also, I have found a crux that I had noticed ages ago, but wasn't confident was a crux, because I wasn't sure which sources to trust. I now have confidence in saying that the claim in Kloosterhuis that Martin von Katte says that Hans Heinrich says that Hans Hermann went to Madrid in late 1728/early 1729 (exact date not given), and that he met Rottembourg there, is weird!
What Kloosterhuis says: "He went in October 1728 initially to Paris on a mission for his father, then on his own initiative to Madrid, in order to visit Count Rottembourg, who'd meanwhile been stationed there, and finally to London, where he crushed on Petronella."
But I am now quite confident that Rottembourg was sent to Spain in late 1727 to negotiate the end of the Anglo-Spanish War, and that when the Convention of El Pardo was signed on March 6, Rottembourg's work was done. He announced his departure on March 28, took his leave at court on April 3, and set off for France on April 7. The multi-volume collection of instructions to ambassadors from the French archives that is of such high quality that I found an expert on British diplomacy of the 1720s envying says that in October 1730, when he got his new mission to Spain, it had been 2.5 years since his return from Spain.
And though I don't have a date for his arrival in Paris, it only took him 3 weeks to get back in 1734, while traveling extremely sick. Even if you double that time because in 1728, he's in Madrid and 1734, he's in Andalusia, which is closer to the coast (we know that he traveled by Barcelona on his way to Seville in 1730) By, say, November or December 1728, it should be really obvious to Katte in Paris that Madrid is not where Rottembourg is. Based on the time for mail, and the fact that they may not have kept in super close touch, I'm willing to believe that when he set out from Berlin, Katte thought Rottembourg was in Madrid, but I'm very surprised that after visiting Paris he didn't. Even if Rottembourg wasn't in Paris, and I suspect he was, even if he was taking the waters somewhere, surely you'd ask around before setting off to Madrid!
Incidentally, depending on how long Katte stayed in Paris and how long it took him to travel to Spain, he might have arrived to find the court wasn't in Madrid; they arrived in Seville on February 3, 1729.
Anyway, this is kind of hilarious, because one plot twist in my fix-it fic was that Katte would set off from Edinburgh, kind of out of the loop, in late 1730, looking for Rottembourg in Madrid, and find that he wasn't there, but had been recalled to France. (This is because I was getting conflicting info on Rottembourg's dates in Spain; I now feel pretty clear on the ones I have and have updated the chronology in our library.)
So, what happened in late 1728? Our sources are mistaken? Katte left without adequate research and arrived in Madrid to an unpleasant surprise? Katte and Rottembourg did or didn't actually meet up, in Paris, in Madrid, or in Seville?
I should add that in addition to the Philip V bio, which I'm almost finished with and will have some Philip V updates on when I am, I have read two articles on diplomacy in Spain at the time that Rottembourg was present, found a dissertation and hunted for all the occurrences of his name, and skimmed the instructions given to him for his two missions to Spain, as well as my usual detective work across a few Google books hits, so I now have a much better idea of what Rottembourg was up to when and why in Spain. He actually got in (a little) trouble in 1727!
Name Spelling The collection of instructions to French ambassadors says that despite the varied spellings of the name Rottembourg (because it's of German origin; he was from Berlin and is cousin to Prussian count Rothenburg), the envoy himself always spelled it 'Rottembourg.'
Marital Status: Unknown Incidentally, our source, or one of our sources, on Rottembourg dying unmarried (remember, some of my sources give a marriage date and a wife's name and genealogy; others say never married): Saint-Simon, who was a contemporary, at Versailles with him, and ambassador to Spain in 1721. So you'd think he would know. In contrast to the source I've found for him being married, which is a 1733 genealogical history. On the other hand, the memoirs were published in 1886, which means who knows what's been done to them by the editor!
Yowsers. In this case, Morgenstern really wasn't kidding. I guess in our fictional 18th century envoys get together, we just have come across a new category to compete in: worst posting ever? Also, the otherwise thorough Kloosterhuis clearly didn't trouble to check and compare dates on Philip V. with the story of Katte's visit. I'm not surprised Martin von Katte didn't, he wasn't a professional historian and repeating a family story. It would be good to have Hans Heinrich's original letter and/or wording about this visit - maybe he just said that on what was supposed to be just a journey to France and back, Hans Herrmann met Rottembourg, the French envoy to Spain, and then proceeded to Britain. Which made Martin v. K. and after him Kloosterhuis draw the easy conclusion that the meeting in question had taken place in Spain, not France. But it also makes geographical sense if Katte went to Paris, met Rottembourg there, and then went on to London, without the major detour of a trip to Spain!
I guess in our fictional 18th century envoys get together, we just have come across a new category to compete in: worst posting ever?
Oh, I imagine that would absolutely be a hot topic. I'm reading a biography of Charles Whitworth, British diplomat, and so far he's absolutely hated his Regensburg posting (too much ceremonial at the Imperial Diet; the city was occupied and Diet effectively imprisoned at the beginning of the Seven Years' War), and Moscow (forced intoxication by Peter the Great)!
Re forced intoxication, I give you these passages:
Even when Peter was accessible, Whitworth felt that his own inability to drink heavily would mean he would never become a close confidant of the Tsar. In 1705 he commented on Peter’s ‘robust constitution’ and confided that ‘I despair as much of being a great favourit, as I do of ever becoming a tollerable drinker'.
Nevertheless, Captain John Perry, the English shipbuilder and hydraulic engineer in Russian service, claimed that it was due to Whitworth’s protests that the custom of ensuring that ‘Visitants [were] drunk before they had parted’, to the extent of locking the gates and doors (‘and to set a Guard that no Man should go away before he had his Load’), came to an end, at least amongst foreigners.
I feel like FW-enforced intoxication was more ad hoc and less systematic!
Though to point out the obvious: even if Rottembourg *did* long for FW's Prussia from Spain, it wasn't high praise of FW but more of a "it's a low bar, but you're better than Philip V urinating in bed and thinking he's a frog," imo.
Which made Martin v. K. and after him Kloosterhuis draw the easy conclusion that the meeting in question had taken place in Spain, not France. But it also makes geographical sense if Katte went to Paris, met Rottembourg there, and then went on to London, without the major detour of a trip to Spain!
Yes, that would make sense! And I very much wish we had the original letter or at least the Martin von Katte manuscript.
Also, the otherwise thorough Kloosterhuis clearly didn't trouble to check and compare dates on Philip V. with the story of Katte's visit.
Indeed, but I've caught the otherwise thorough man in a couple other chronological errors too. One is typographical: he gives two different months for Peter Keith's marriage, to the point where I'm not sure which is correct (though I'm inclined to go with the one that has the date, since the author's more likely to have typed that one while looking at it, and the other one from memory). K also, iirc, believes Peter left Wesel as a result of the "Sauvez-vous" letter, which means that not only did K not read/remember Koser refuting that claim, he didn't even notice the contradiction with his own materials. K's the one who includes the inventory of Peter's room on August 7 in his appendices! Not to mention the Mylius report.
I have to say, having a fic plot in my head is awesome: either I will write it someday (increasingly unlikely but still possible), in which case I have a whole lot more material in my head for the brief episode in Spain now, or I won't write it, but I'm still a whole lot more engaged in my reading because I'm paying close attention to specific events. Would I have read two scholarly articles on Spanish diplomacy of the late 1720s if not for my fictional interest in Rottembourg? I would not!
Btw, one of them was interesting enough that I put it in the library (restricted section): it's a good overview of the leadup to the 1729 Treaty of Seville and links together all the events I learned piecemeal. It also provides a different perspective on some of them (like how mad at Rottembourg was Fleury, really?).
ETA: Right, and Kloosterhuis also said Peter's mother had to remind Fritz to bring him back to August, meaning K missed the exchange in the PC where Fritz was having his envoy in Hanover research where Peter was and tell him to come home. So that's 4 minor chronological errors I've now caught K in.
Oh, something that's been bugging me for a while: Newly crowned Fritz asked his Hanoverian envoy to keep the search for Peter discreet. Any thoughts on why?
Also, in keeping of my theme that chronology is not just plot but characterization, the discovery that Katte might not have gone to Madrid is interesting. Given the difficulties of travel in the 18th century, if he did go to Madrid, that demonstrates an attachment to Rottembourg that's really above and beyond. I always explained it as Katte having an early-career crisis and really wanting some advice and a face-to-face talk, maybe a favor, that letters wouldn't suffice for.
My evidence being that he traveled to London on the same trip and considered leaving Prussian service, then let his father talk him into coming back, but got reprimanded by his superior in the army because he'd overstayed his leave. He might really have been trying to decide what he wanted to do with his life, and was desperate to talk to his French mentor. And I let the Madrid trip influence how I thought of the closeness between them. If Katte really met up with him in Paris, then maybe they were still super close, but it's no longer evidence for that, nor for the strength of the apparent crisis.
Maybe Katte traveled somewhere outside of Paris but not so far away, like Alsace or Aachen, who knows. I really wish we had the letter or at least the manuscript--we're playing a game of telephone here.
Oh, another minor chronological point: although Rottembourg had left Berlin in early 1727, he was due to come back, and not until October 1728 did he officially step down as envoy and say he wasn't coming back (the many-volumed series of instructions to French ambassadors is *really* detailed, and I am forever grateful, and understand the English scholar's envy). So Katte might well have set off thinking that he'd get to hang out with R in Berlin again, and only in Paris did he discover that wasn't going to be a thing, so he made a point of looking him up (wherever he was).
I feel like FW-enforced intoxication was more ad hoc and less systematic!
That's how it struck me, too. Though no wonder FW and Peter got along when they met. I remember from one of the Manteuffel biographies that Le Diable, who was the envoy in Berlin during Peter's last tour there, wasn't impressed with either of them and their revels in his reports to Fleming (though of course unlike poor Whitworth, he could roll with it enough when required to beome a member of the club.
Mind you, in that age, it's more difficult to find the monarchs or supreme rulers who valued sobriety instead. I mean, Philippe d'Orleans the Regent also got drunk so often that Saint-Simon thought it contributed to his early death at the age of 45. (Though he didn't get drunk with foreign envoys, he did it with his mates.) And it's a miracle August the Strong didn't die far sooner given all he ate and drank.
Though to point out the obvious: even if Rottembourg *did* long for FW's Prussia from Spain, it wasn't high praise of FW but more of a "it's a low bar, but you're better than Philip V urinating in bed and thinking he's a frog," imo.
Naturally. BTW, does the Philip biography have much to say about Farinelli? Covering the musical angle here for cahn.
In terms of envoys debating which was the worst posting: I'm trying to decide how the Hannover Georges would fare. On the one hand, London offers a great deal, from highbrow (Händel operas, Royal Society, great literature being written) to low brow (thriving brothels to the point that supposedly every fifth woman worked as a prostitute at least at some point in her life mid century, and there were "molly houses" for gay men, too). The press was freer than in any other European country. On the downside, no matter whether you arrived in the G1, G2 or G3 era, you were bound to have a constellation where the reigning monarch and the Prince of Wales cordially hate each other's guts. As envoy, you must of course mainly be on good terms with the reigning monarch, but pissing of the next one also isn't good idea. And because most of the power at this point is in the hands of the PM and parliament, you also have to get along with the top ministers.
Btw.: if instead of Fritz trying to escape Prussia, Fritz of Wales had shown up in Berlin/Potsdam, declaring himself a refugee from paternal (and maternal) naltreaatment, how do you think FW would have reacted? (Army desertion would not have been a factor in this case, since Fritz of Wales, unlike younger brother Cumberland, was not a member of the British army.) (Or the Hannoverian one, for that matter.) Delighted at the chance to annoy G2? Inconvenienced as what to do with the nephew? Caught between "children must obey and honor their fathers above all" and "hey, he's still the future heir, right? Let's get all the concessions!"
Newly crowned Fritz asked his Hanoverian envoy to keep the search for Peter discreet. Any thoughts on why?
That's easy, imo. Remember, everyone - well, not the French envoy, or Suhm, or Manteuffel - expected Fritz become a peacenik, pleasure loving king who, depending on your own pov, will be a philosopher or putty in the hand of his favourites. Recalling your old teacher openly is one thing - that's commendable, he's old, he's not a scandalous person, everyone will see this as positive and becoming gratitude in a monarch. Instantly summoning Algarotti: also not a problem, Algarotti is a new aquaintance and a much sought after international celebrity, he had nothing to do with pre 1730 Fritz. Promoting Hans Heinrich to Field Marshal: also not a problem. He has had the career to deserve it, and Hans Herrmann is dead. Again, very commendable. But Peter? Peter is the living embodiment of 1730. He is, without a question, a deserter, and Fritz' policy is to surprise his father's generals by solely dissolving the Giants and dispensing them onto other regiments but otherwise be behind the army 100%, no more "Sterbekittel" slanders. Peter also exactly who FW has always imagined King Fritz would be dominated by - a friend who from FW's pov encouraged him in his worst instincts, i.e. to go against his father's abuse wishes.
If Katte really met up with him in Paris, then maybe they were still super close, but it's no longer evidence for that, nor for the strength of the apparent crisis.
That is unfortunate, but then, you yourself have said you still wouldn't mind the Rokoko babysitting plot despite being convinced now that the unnamed brother from Fritz' letter was AW. Just proceed with Mentor!Rottembourg.
though of course unlike poor Whitworth, he could roll with it enough when required to beome a member of the club
It's 1716, and Whitworth has just announced that he likes Berlin best of all his postings so far! Considering his experience has been Regensburg both when under foreign occupation and when the Peace of Utrecht is being hammered out (and Whitworth is frustrated by the Diet's complete inability to get anything productive done), and Moscow, this is a low bar, but:
You see I am now settling into my new post, something more agreable, but much more expensive than Ratisbonne [Cahn: Regensburg] tho my Revenue is lesen'd by my new Establishment, but for better or for worse should be the motto of Ministers & married Men.
Whitworth, btw, is one of those relatively rare diplomats who *isn't* independently wealthy. Since salaries were low and more often than not, paid out several years after they were due, he's constantly asking his family for money, apologizing to them, complaining to his bosses, and wondering whether this is actually a viable career.
Fritz: See, this is why I said Peter Keith not being rich was a strike against him as envoy!
Naturally. BTW, does the Philip biography have much to say about Farinelli? Covering the musical angle here for cahn.
A little bit, yeah. Will include that in my Philip V write-up when I'm not hoping my insomnia ends soon.
Caught between "children must obey and honor their fathers above all" and "hey, he's still the future heir, right? Let's get all the concessions!"
This is my guess!
But Peter? Peter is the living embodiment of 1730.
I figured that would be your take on it. Poor Peter. :(
That is unfortunate, but then, you yourself have said you still wouldn't mind the Rokoko babysitting plot despite being convinced now that the unnamed brother from Fritz' letter was AW. Just proceed with Mentor!Rottembourg.
Oh, sure, for fanfic! It's just that putting on my historian hat, I have to adjust my headcanon now. But Mentor!Rottembourg is exactly the kind of fleshing out that fanfic is *for*! (I do think, historically, that Rottembourg was a mentor figure. I just no longer believe in "I need to talk to you in person SO BADLY that I will make an unauthorized detour to Spain!") Totally keeping the detour to Spain for fanfic, though, especially since there's additional plot reason for it.
And yes, would read the heck out of Heinrich babysitting even now that I think it was AW!
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Philip V and French Count Rottembourg
First mission (October 1727-April 1728)
Rottembourg appears to have escaped before matters peaked in June, but I also don't know exactly when certain symptoms began. What I've got is this:
May 1727 - end of 1727: Philip V severely depressed, unwilling to speak to his ministers. Will listen to reports, but "no sign of hearing other than a gesture now and then or a fleeting smile."
Early 1728: Back in business, but severe attacks. Doesn't see ministers for weeks at a time, and then will only see them at night, and will keep them up until dawn. Audiences with ambassadors are held at midnight.
June is when he starts wanting to abdicate for the second time. (Remember, he abdicated once, gave the throne to his son, and his son died of smallpox after about 7 months.) His wife, Isabella, tries to prevent him. She has all writing implements removed, and keeps a close guard on him. So Philip tries escaping by sneaking out at 5 am, while she's asleep, and flees the palace in his nightshirt. She has the guards stop him, changes the locks, and gives the guards orders not to let him escape, but he tries this several times.
Finally, on June 28, he sneaks some paper while Isabella's in another room for a minute, writes out his abdication, and has his most trusted servant smuggle it into the council. The council session is discussing it when Isabella's messenger arrives, confiscates the piece of paper, and destroys it.
During this summer, and I don't know how early it started and whether some of them would have been affecting Rottembourg by April, but we've got these symptoms:
* Giving audiences to ambassadors either in his nightshirt or almost naked.
* Paranoia, delusions, and hallucinations.
* Biting himself.
* Screaming and/or singing.
* Urinating and defecating in bed.
* Believing he's a frog (July). (Rottembourg's replacement as ambassador arrived in June. Man, I don't envy him.)
* Believing that he's dead.
* Bulimia.
Rottembourg gets the hell out just in time, it seems. But he's back in 1730, which is when things are really crazy, and for a much longer time.
Second mission: (December 1730-April 1734)
During most of this time, the court isn't in Madrid, it's in Andalusia, and it's peripatetic. This is Isabella's idea for how to make Philip's mental health improve: change of scenery.
This means tons of expenses for the ambassadors. Ambassadors were notoriously in arrears for their salaries, and most were rich and the rest supported by their families. Random expenses like "The King decided to move his court" have to be covered out of pocket. So Rottembourg, who was himself very rich, had to sell property to cover these years.
And then there's the part where summer 1730 is when Philip's mental health crashes again. He's severely depressed, bulimic, and consuming vast amounts of poison antidotes (I don't know the details) because of his paranoia. He's convinced that his stools contain blood; when he inspects them and they aren't, he accuses the doctors of concealing the blood. His toenails get so long it's difficult to walk. He won't let anyone do his hair, so it turns into a complete mess. He smells terrible. His only entertainment is fishing...in his garden...at night...from a bowl that his attendants have placed fish in.
But he won't give up power, either. He walks around muttering, "I'm the boss here" (Je suis le maître), and making things difficult to prove it. If you give him a stack of papers to be signed in a certain order, he'll rearrange the papers when you're not looking.
And, of course, he's conducting all business at night. Upon arriving, Rottembourg describes the situation as "incomprehensible", and complains about being kept in meetings until 6 am. Meanwhile, Isabella is trying to conduct a normal life during the day and take care of her husband and help him with state business at night.
June 1731: Rottembourg reports that he shows up for an audience at night, but the queen has collapsed from exhaustion and is fast asleep, and Philip hasn't slept in 48 hours. So Rottembourg waits until 7 am, at which point he's told they can't see him until 5:30 pm.
By July, Philip is getting one hour of sleep a night, his legs are swollen, and everyone's convinced he's going to die.
A year later, after a brief manic episode, he's back to depressed, with no hygiene, and refusing to talk to anyone because he's dead. Also, he's extremely concerned that because he had abdicated, then became king again after his son died, his rule is invalid. By not talking, he can avoid ruling!
In October 1732, he decides he's going to talk, but only to his valet. He then starts explaining how he's going to unite the crowns of France and Spain to his valet...but no one else.
In November, he breaks his streak of not talking to ministers and ambassadors by insisting that he needs to talk to Rottembourg. "The startled count was presented with the spectacle of a king with clothing completely disordered, with a long and filthy beard, and wearing no trousers or shoes, his legs and feet naked."
This is the kind of thing that could make you miss FW forcing you to get drunk!
In conclusion, Rottembourg may well have been quoted as saying, "However bad Berlin was, it was better than Madrid!" (At least there was the SD court in Berlin when FW was away.)
Rottembourg's Health or "Health"
Rottembourg's health, btw, is bad; in 1733 he starts requesting his recall, in 1734 it's granted, and in 1735 he dies. Did the stay in Spain make it worse? Who knows, but it can't have helped.
Speaking of his health, I've now refreshed my memory that during his first two missions to Berlin, he requested recall on the grounds of his health and the Berlin climate, and the third time, he requested permission for a short leave to take care of some personal affairs, which turned into a permanent absence. But as we've seen, most Frexits proceeded officially by complaining about the climate of Berlin, not complaints about the King!
Katte Visits Rottembourg??
Also, also, I have found a crux that I had noticed ages ago, but wasn't confident was a crux, because I wasn't sure which sources to trust. I now have confidence in saying that the claim in Kloosterhuis that Martin von Katte says that Hans Heinrich says that Hans Hermann went to Madrid in late 1728/early 1729 (exact date not given), and that he met Rottembourg there, is weird!
What Kloosterhuis says: "He went in October 1728 initially to Paris on a mission for his father, then on his own initiative to Madrid, in order to visit Count Rottembourg, who'd meanwhile been stationed there, and finally to London, where he crushed on Petronella."
But I am now quite confident that Rottembourg was sent to Spain in late 1727 to negotiate the end of the Anglo-Spanish War, and that when the Convention of El Pardo was signed on March 6, Rottembourg's work was done. He announced his departure on March 28, took his leave at court on April 3, and set off for France on April 7. The multi-volume collection of instructions to ambassadors from the French archives that is of such high quality that I found an expert on British diplomacy of the 1720s envying says that in October 1730, when he got his new mission to Spain, it had been 2.5 years since his return from Spain.
And though I don't have a date for his arrival in Paris, it only took him 3 weeks to get back in 1734, while traveling extremely sick. Even if you double that time because in 1728, he's in Madrid and 1734, he's in Andalusia, which is closer to the coast (we know that he traveled by Barcelona on his way to Seville in 1730) By, say, November or December 1728, it should be really obvious to Katte in Paris that Madrid is not where Rottembourg is. Based on the time for mail, and the fact that they may not have kept in super close touch, I'm willing to believe that when he set out from Berlin, Katte thought Rottembourg was in Madrid, but I'm very surprised that after visiting Paris he didn't. Even if Rottembourg wasn't in Paris, and I suspect he was, even if he was taking the waters somewhere, surely you'd ask around before setting off to Madrid!
Incidentally, depending on how long Katte stayed in Paris and how long it took him to travel to Spain, he might have arrived to find the court wasn't in Madrid; they arrived in Seville on February 3, 1729.
Anyway, this is kind of hilarious, because one plot twist in my fix-it fic was that Katte would set off from Edinburgh, kind of out of the loop, in late 1730, looking for Rottembourg in Madrid, and find that he wasn't there, but had been recalled to France. (This is because I was getting conflicting info on Rottembourg's dates in Spain; I now feel pretty clear on the ones I have and have updated the chronology in our library.)
So, what happened in late 1728? Our sources are mistaken? Katte left without adequate research and arrived in Madrid to an unpleasant surprise? Katte and Rottembourg did or didn't actually meet up, in Paris, in Madrid, or in Seville?
I should add that in addition to the Philip V bio, which I'm almost finished with and will have some Philip V updates on when I am, I have read two articles on diplomacy in Spain at the time that Rottembourg was present, found a dissertation and hunted for all the occurrences of his name, and skimmed the instructions given to him for his two missions to Spain, as well as my usual detective work across a few Google books hits, so I now have a much better idea of what Rottembourg was up to when and why in Spain. He actually got in (a little) trouble in 1727!
Name Spelling
The collection of instructions to French ambassadors says that despite the varied spellings of the name Rottembourg (because it's of German origin; he was from Berlin and is cousin to Prussian count Rothenburg), the envoy himself always spelled it 'Rottembourg.'
Marital Status: Unknown
Incidentally, our source, or one of our sources, on Rottembourg dying unmarried (remember, some of my sources give a marriage date and a wife's name and genealogy; others say never married): Saint-Simon, who was a contemporary, at Versailles with him, and ambassador to Spain in 1721. So you'd think he would know. In contrast to the source I've found for him being married, which is a 1733 genealogical history. On the other hand, the memoirs were published in 1886, which means who knows what's been done to them by the editor!
Re: Philip V and French Count Rottembourg
Re: Philip V and French Count Rottembourg
Oh, I imagine that would absolutely be a hot topic. I'm reading a biography of Charles Whitworth, British diplomat, and so far he's absolutely hated his Regensburg posting (too much ceremonial at the Imperial Diet; the city was occupied and Diet effectively imprisoned at the beginning of the Seven Years' War), and Moscow (forced intoxication by Peter the Great)!
Re forced intoxication, I give you these passages:
Even when Peter was accessible, Whitworth felt that his own inability to drink heavily would mean he would never become a close confidant of the Tsar. In 1705 he commented on Peter’s ‘robust constitution’ and confided that ‘I despair as much of being a great favourit, as I do of ever becoming a tollerable drinker'.
Nevertheless, Captain John Perry, the English shipbuilder and hydraulic engineer in Russian service, claimed that it was due to Whitworth’s protests that the custom of ensuring that ‘Visitants [were] drunk before they had parted’, to the extent of locking the gates and doors (‘and to set a Guard that no Man should go away before he had his Load’), came to an end, at least amongst foreigners.
I feel like FW-enforced intoxication was more ad hoc and less systematic!
Though to point out the obvious: even if Rottembourg *did* long for FW's Prussia from Spain, it wasn't high praise of FW but more of a "it's a low bar, but you're better than Philip V urinating in bed and thinking he's a frog," imo.
Which made Martin v. K. and after him Kloosterhuis draw the easy conclusion that the meeting in question had taken place in Spain, not France. But it also makes geographical sense if Katte went to Paris, met Rottembourg there, and then went on to London, without the major detour of a trip to Spain!
Yes, that would make sense! And I very much wish we had the original letter or at least the Martin von Katte manuscript.
Also, the otherwise thorough Kloosterhuis clearly didn't trouble to check and compare dates on Philip V. with the story of Katte's visit.
Indeed, but I've caught the otherwise thorough man in a couple other chronological errors too. One is typographical: he gives two different months for Peter Keith's marriage, to the point where I'm not sure which is correct (though I'm inclined to go with the one that has the date, since the author's more likely to have typed that one while looking at it, and the other one from memory). K also, iirc, believes Peter left Wesel as a result of the "Sauvez-vous" letter, which means that not only did K not read/remember Koser refuting that claim, he didn't even notice the contradiction with his own materials. K's the one who includes the inventory of Peter's room on August 7 in his appendices! Not to mention the Mylius report.
I have to say, having a fic plot in my head is awesome: either I will write it someday (increasingly unlikely but still possible), in which case I have a whole lot more material in my head for the brief episode in Spain now, or I won't write it, but I'm still a whole lot more engaged in my reading because I'm paying close attention to specific events. Would I have read two scholarly articles on Spanish diplomacy of the late 1720s if not for my fictional interest in Rottembourg? I would not!
Btw, one of them was interesting enough that I put it in the library (restricted section): it's a good overview of the leadup to the 1729 Treaty of Seville and links together all the events I learned piecemeal. It also provides a different perspective on some of them (like how mad at Rottembourg was Fleury, really?).
ETA: Right, and Kloosterhuis also said Peter's mother had to remind Fritz to bring him back to August, meaning K missed the exchange in the PC where Fritz was having his envoy in Hanover research where Peter was and tell him to come home. So that's 4 minor chronological errors I've now caught K in.
Oh, something that's been bugging me for a while: Newly crowned Fritz asked his Hanoverian envoy to keep the search for Peter discreet. Any thoughts on why?
Also, in keeping of my theme that chronology is not just plot but characterization, the discovery that Katte might not have gone to Madrid is interesting. Given the difficulties of travel in the 18th century, if he did go to Madrid, that demonstrates an attachment to Rottembourg that's really above and beyond. I always explained it as Katte having an early-career crisis and really wanting some advice and a face-to-face talk, maybe a favor, that letters wouldn't suffice for.
My evidence being that he traveled to London on the same trip and considered leaving Prussian service, then let his father talk him into coming back, but got reprimanded by his superior in the army because he'd overstayed his leave. He might really have been trying to decide what he wanted to do with his life, and was desperate to talk to his French mentor. And I let the Madrid trip influence how I thought of the closeness between them. If Katte really met up with him in Paris, then maybe they were still super close, but it's no longer evidence for that, nor for the strength of the apparent crisis.
Maybe Katte traveled somewhere outside of Paris but not so far away, like Alsace or Aachen, who knows. I really wish we had the letter or at least the manuscript--we're playing a game of telephone here.
Oh, another minor chronological point: although Rottembourg had left Berlin in early 1727, he was due to come back, and not until October 1728 did he officially step down as envoy and say he wasn't coming back (the many-volumed series of instructions to French ambassadors is *really* detailed, and I am forever grateful, and understand the English scholar's envy). So Katte might well have set off thinking that he'd get to hang out with R in Berlin again, and only in Paris did he discover that wasn't going to be a thing, so he made a point of looking him up (wherever he was).
Re: Philip V and French Count Rottembourg
That's how it struck me, too. Though no wonder FW and Peter got along when they met. I remember from one of the Manteuffel biographies that Le Diable, who was the envoy in Berlin during Peter's last tour there, wasn't impressed with either of them and their revels in his reports to Fleming (though of course unlike poor Whitworth, he could roll with it enough when required to beome a member of the club.
Mind you, in that age, it's more difficult to find the monarchs or supreme rulers who valued sobriety instead. I mean, Philippe d'Orleans the Regent also got drunk so often that Saint-Simon thought it contributed to his early death at the age of 45. (Though he didn't get drunk with foreign envoys, he did it with his mates.) And it's a miracle August the Strong didn't die far sooner given all he ate and drank.
Though to point out the obvious: even if Rottembourg *did* long for FW's Prussia from Spain, it wasn't high praise of FW but more of a "it's a low bar, but you're better than Philip V urinating in bed and thinking he's a frog," imo.
Naturally. BTW, does the Philip biography have much to say about Farinelli? Covering the musical angle here for
In terms of envoys debating which was the worst posting: I'm trying to decide how the Hannover Georges would fare. On the one hand, London offers a great deal, from highbrow (Händel operas, Royal Society, great literature being written) to low brow (thriving brothels to the point that supposedly every fifth woman worked as a prostitute at least at some point in her life mid century, and there were "molly houses" for gay men, too). The press was freer than in any other European country. On the downside, no matter whether you arrived in the G1, G2 or G3 era, you were bound to have a constellation where the reigning monarch and the Prince of Wales cordially hate each other's guts. As envoy, you must of course mainly be on good terms with the reigning monarch, but pissing of the next one also isn't good idea. And because most of the power at this point is in the hands of the PM and parliament, you also have to get along with the top ministers.
Btw.: if instead of Fritz trying to escape Prussia, Fritz of Wales had shown up in Berlin/Potsdam, declaring himself a refugee from paternal (and maternal) naltreaatment, how do you think FW would have reacted? (Army desertion would not have been a factor in this case, since Fritz of Wales, unlike younger brother Cumberland, was not a member of the British army.) (Or the Hannoverian one, for that matter.) Delighted at the chance to annoy G2? Inconvenienced as what to do with the nephew? Caught between "children must obey and honor their fathers above all" and "hey, he's still the future heir, right? Let's get all the concessions!"
Newly crowned Fritz asked his Hanoverian envoy to keep the search for Peter discreet. Any thoughts on why?
That's easy, imo. Remember, everyone - well, not the French envoy, or Suhm, or Manteuffel - expected Fritz become a peacenik, pleasure loving king who, depending on your own pov, will be a philosopher or putty in the hand of his favourites. Recalling your old teacher openly is one thing - that's commendable, he's old, he's not a scandalous person, everyone will see this as positive and becoming gratitude in a monarch. Instantly summoning Algarotti: also not a problem, Algarotti is a new aquaintance and a much sought after international celebrity, he had nothing to do with pre 1730 Fritz. Promoting Hans Heinrich to Field Marshal: also not a problem. He has had the career to deserve it, and Hans Herrmann is dead. Again, very commendable. But Peter? Peter is the living embodiment of 1730. He is, without a question, a deserter, and Fritz' policy is to surprise his father's generals by solely dissolving the Giants and dispensing them onto other regiments but otherwise be behind the army 100%, no more "Sterbekittel" slanders. Peter also exactly who FW has always imagined King Fritz would be dominated by - a friend who from FW's pov encouraged him in his worst instincts, i.e. to go against his father's
abusewishes.If Katte really met up with him in Paris, then maybe they were still super close, but it's no longer evidence for that, nor for the strength of the apparent crisis.
That is unfortunate, but then, you yourself have said you still wouldn't mind the Rokoko babysitting plot despite being convinced now that the unnamed brother from Fritz' letter was AW. Just proceed with Mentor!Rottembourg.
Re: Philip V and French Count Rottembourg
It's 1716, and Whitworth has just announced that he likes Berlin best of all his postings so far! Considering his experience has been Regensburg both when under foreign occupation and when the Peace of Utrecht is being hammered out (and Whitworth is frustrated by the Diet's complete inability to get anything productive done), and Moscow, this is a low bar, but:
You see I am now settling into my new post, something more agreable, but much more expensive than Ratisbonne [Cahn: Regensburg] tho my Revenue is lesen'd by my new Establishment, but for better or for worse should be the motto of Ministers & married Men.
Whitworth, btw, is one of those relatively rare diplomats who *isn't* independently wealthy. Since salaries were low and more often than not, paid out several years after they were due, he's constantly asking his family for money, apologizing to them, complaining to his bosses, and wondering whether this is actually a viable career.
Fritz: See, this is why I said Peter Keith not being rich was a strike against him as envoy!
Naturally. BTW, does the Philip biography have much to say about Farinelli? Covering the musical angle here for cahn.
A little bit, yeah. Will include that in my Philip V write-up when I'm not hoping my insomnia ends soon.
Caught between "children must obey and honor their fathers above all" and "hey, he's still the future heir, right? Let's get all the concessions!"
This is my guess!
But Peter? Peter is the living embodiment of 1730.
I figured that would be your take on it. Poor Peter. :(
That is unfortunate, but then, you yourself have said you still wouldn't mind the Rokoko babysitting plot despite being convinced now that the unnamed brother from Fritz' letter was AW. Just proceed with Mentor!Rottembourg.
Oh, sure, for fanfic! It's just that putting on my historian hat, I have to adjust my headcanon now. But Mentor!Rottembourg is exactly the kind of fleshing out that fanfic is *for*! (I do think, historically, that Rottembourg was a mentor figure. I just no longer believe in "I need to talk to you in person SO BADLY that I will make an unauthorized detour to Spain!") Totally keeping the detour to Spain for fanfic, though, especially since there's additional plot reason for it.
And yes, would read the heck out of Heinrich babysitting even now that I think it was AW!