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Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 27
Still going! :D
Brought to you by my recalling that idle joke about Katte and Rodrigo de Posa changing places, and the likely result this would have on the plot of Don Carlos and Fritz' life, respectively: I wonder about the rest of the cast. With the premise that only one literary character is allowed to exchange places with one rl character each (i.e. no Fritz and Katte switching at the same time):
FW for Philip of Spain (Schiller/Verdi version): FW is horrified to find himself as the most Catholic of monarchs, fires the Spanish Inquisition, orders everyone at court to become Protestant (either Lutheran or Calvinist would be fine), gets locked up as insane by Domino and Alba, dies, the end. Otoh, if the switch comes with FW forgetting his past and believing himself to Philip, the father/son problem still exists, but the Duke of Alba is very surprised that Philip now wants to start a tobacco-smoking hard drinking club with him, Lerma and some other courtiers. FW!Philip does not have sex with Eboli, and doesn't suspect Elisabeth of getting it on with Carlos, but he is absolutely convinced she's conspiring with Carlos and Posa against him and hones in on the political aspect there at once.
Philip!FW, otoh, let's see: a) with his memory: is horrified at what's been going on since his life time, has no problem with FW's personal austerity but does have a problem with the Potsdam Giants, glares witheringly at the Tobacco College the first time someone addresses him as "Colonel" and dissolves it, gets along with SD on a mutual leaving each other alone level much to her surprise and relief, and stuns everyone by being okay with the English marriages. (Why? Because clearly God means for him to finally get his hands on England, that wretched realm. Philip is a Habsburg. If the Armada failed, marriage will do it.) He's also fine with music and literature for Fritz, though very suspicious about various ambassadors courting the Crown Prince. The plot as we know it does not happen, but maybe another kind of father/son clash will, especially if Philip decides to relieve his loneliness via summoning Katte.
b) Without his memory, believing himself to be FW: Philip is absolutely convinced SD and his oldest kids are conspiring against him and is deeply hurt by this, but to Grumbkow's surprise, instead of honing in on the G2/English marriage angle, Philip!FW suspects SD of having an affair with one of the Schwedt cousins and of Fritz & Wilhelmine not being his kids. He definitely summons Katte. And puts the moves on Präulein von Pannewitz. The strangest thing, though: not a single "prank" on Gundling (or anyone else) is being played. Philip!FW is arrested as an impersonator by Old Dessauer.
FW for Philip of Spain (Schiller/Verdi version): FW is horrified to find himself as the most Catholic of monarchs, fires the Spanish Inquisition, orders everyone at court to become Protestant (either Lutheran or Calvinist would be fine), gets locked up as insane by Domino and Alba, dies, the end. Otoh, if the switch comes with FW forgetting his past and believing himself to Philip, the father/son problem still exists, but the Duke of Alba is very surprised that Philip now wants to start a tobacco-smoking hard drinking club with him, Lerma and some other courtiers. FW!Philip does not have sex with Eboli, and doesn't suspect Elisabeth of getting it on with Carlos, but he is absolutely convinced she's conspiring with Carlos and Posa against him and hones in on the political aspect there at once.
Philip!FW, otoh, let's see: a) with his memory: is horrified at what's been going on since his life time, has no problem with FW's personal austerity but does have a problem with the Potsdam Giants, glares witheringly at the Tobacco College the first time someone addresses him as "Colonel" and dissolves it, gets along with SD on a mutual leaving each other alone level much to her surprise and relief, and stuns everyone by being okay with the English marriages. (Why? Because clearly God means for him to finally get his hands on England, that wretched realm. Philip is a Habsburg. If the Armada failed, marriage will do it.) He's also fine with music and literature for Fritz, though very suspicious about various ambassadors courting the Crown Prince. The plot as we know it does not happen, but maybe another kind of father/son clash will, especially if Philip decides to relieve his loneliness via summoning Katte.
b) Without his memory, believing himself to be FW: Philip is absolutely convinced SD and his oldest kids are conspiring against him and is deeply hurt by this, but to Grumbkow's surprise, instead of honing in on the G2/English marriage angle, Philip!FW suspects SD of having an affair with one of the Schwedt cousins and of Fritz & Wilhelmine not being his kids. He definitely summons Katte. And puts the moves on Präulein von Pannewitz. The strangest thing, though: not a single "prank" on Gundling (or anyone else) is being played. Philip!FW is arrested as an impersonator by Old Dessauer.
ahahahaha this is excellent!! this whole comment was gold.
FW is horrified to find himself as the most Catholic of monarchs, fires the Spanish Inquisition, orders everyone at court to become Protestant (either Lutheran or Calvinist would be fine), gets locked up as insane by Domino and Alba, dies, the end.
LOL FOREVER, not least because, well, true. Way to shorten the play/opera :D
but the Duke of Alba is very surprised that Philip now wants to start a tobacco-smoking hard drinking club with him, Lerma and some other courtiers.
HAHAHAHA I think this is my favorite part of the entire comment (which was a super high bar, I'll have you know)
but he is absolutely convinced she's conspiring with Carlos and Posa against him and hones in on the political aspect there at once.
...ooooof. Yeah. And I suppose he would not be nearly as fascinated with Posa as Philip, soooo I might not be so interested in this whole triangle (because it's all about what I want to watch :) )
has no problem with FW's personal austerity but does have a problem with the Potsdam Giants
HAHAHAHA
gets along with SD on a mutual leaving each other alone level much to her surprise and relief
...well, at least someone is happy, yay?
and stuns everyone by being okay with the English marriages. (Why? Because clearly God means for him to finally get his hands on England, that wretched realm. Philip is a Habsburg. If the Armada failed, marriage will do it.)
...this is my second favorite part of the entire comment. LOL!
but maybe another kind of father/son clash will, especially if Philip decides to relieve his loneliness via summoning Katte.
Heh.
Katte: is an upright courtier but not particularly revolutionary or Enlightened
Philip: He's nice enough, but somehow... I wanted more...
and of Fritz & Wilhelmine not being his kids.
Hee. Of course he would.
The strangest thing, though: not a single "prank" on Gundling (or anyone else) is being played.
THANK YOU.
Yeah, Philip is cruel in a lot of ways, but not that one. (Well, Schiller/Verdi Philip wouldn't, perhaps for the obvious reason of being written much later. Have no idea about historical!Philip, but haven't you been telling me that FW is... not exactly common in this way even for his time period?)
FW is horrified to find himself as the most Catholic of monarchs, fires the Spanish Inquisition, orders everyone at court to become Protestant (either Lutheran or Calvinist would be fine), gets locked up as insane by Domino and Alba, dies, the end.
LOL FOREVER, not least because, well, true. Way to shorten the play/opera :D
but the Duke of Alba is very surprised that Philip now wants to start a tobacco-smoking hard drinking club with him, Lerma and some other courtiers.
HAHAHAHA I think this is my favorite part of the entire comment (which was a super high bar, I'll have you know)
but he is absolutely convinced she's conspiring with Carlos and Posa against him and hones in on the political aspect there at once.
...ooooof. Yeah. And I suppose he would not be nearly as fascinated with Posa as Philip, soooo I might not be so interested in this whole triangle (because it's all about what I want to watch :) )
has no problem with FW's personal austerity but does have a problem with the Potsdam Giants
HAHAHAHA
gets along with SD on a mutual leaving each other alone level much to her surprise and relief
...well, at least someone is happy, yay?
and stuns everyone by being okay with the English marriages. (Why? Because clearly God means for him to finally get his hands on England, that wretched realm. Philip is a Habsburg. If the Armada failed, marriage will do it.)
...this is my second favorite part of the entire comment. LOL!
but maybe another kind of father/son clash will, especially if Philip decides to relieve his loneliness via summoning Katte.
Heh.
Katte: is an upright courtier but not particularly revolutionary or Enlightened
Philip: He's nice enough, but somehow... I wanted more...
and of Fritz & Wilhelmine not being his kids.
Hee. Of course he would.
The strangest thing, though: not a single "prank" on Gundling (or anyone else) is being played.
THANK YOU.
Yeah, Philip is cruel in a lot of ways, but not that one. (Well, Schiller/Verdi Philip wouldn't, perhaps for the obvious reason of being written much later. Have no idea about historical!Philip, but haven't you been telling me that FW is... not exactly common in this way even for his time period?)
And I suppose he would not be nearly as fascinated with Posa as Philip, soooo I might not be so interested in this whole triangle (because it's all about what I want to watch :) )
Wellllllll..... I just had the meanest idea for a Rodrigo Lives!AU ever. Because if FW!Philip hears Posa's "Sire, geben Sie Gedankefreiheit!" speech, he may well react thusly: "You know what, I'm going to make you President of my new Academy of Science, so you can ensure that happens! And you're going to be my Secret Councillor, and a member of my newly founded Table Round! How about that! You can advise and influence my policy, I promise!"
Posa: *is tempted*
Bears: *are prepared*
Yeah, Philip is cruel in a lot of ways, but not that one. (Well, Schiller/Verdi Philip wouldn't, perhaps for the obvious reason of being written much later. Have no idea about historical!Philip
As far as I know, he wasn't into cruel pranks, either. Not his kind of humor, plus his was the court who truly invented Spanish Etiquette.
Wellllllll..... I just had the meanest idea for a Rodrigo Lives!AU ever. Because if FW!Philip hears Posa's "Sire, geben Sie Gedankefreiheit!" speech, he may well react thusly: "You know what, I'm going to make you President of my new Academy of Science, so you can ensure that happens! And you're going to be my Secret Councillor, and a member of my newly founded Table Round! How about that! You can advise and influence my policy, I promise!"
Posa: *is tempted*
Bears: *are prepared*
Yeah, Philip is cruel in a lot of ways, but not that one. (Well, Schiller/Verdi Philip wouldn't, perhaps for the obvious reason of being written much later. Have no idea about historical!Philip
As far as I know, he wasn't into cruel pranks, either. Not his kind of humor, plus his was the court who truly invented Spanish Etiquette.
"You know what, I'm going to make you President of my new Academy of Science, so you can ensure that happens! And you're going to be my Secret Councillor, and a member of my newly founded Table Round! How about that! You can advise and influence my policy, I promise!"
OH NOOOOOOO
(okay, I also laughed. This probably means I am going to hell. On the other hand, it is way more entertaining to think about Totally Fictional FW!Philip/Posa than real-life FW & Gundling.)
OH NOOOOOOO
(okay, I also laughed. This probably means I am going to hell. On the other hand, it is way more entertaining to think about Totally Fictional FW!Philip/Posa than real-life FW & Gundling.)
Hi! Uuuh Uni has been killing me for the past few months, so I haven't really been able to write much of anything I wanted to write or read much of anything I wanted to read (I started reading Lehndorff and I'm loving it), but I have drawn today! I should be working on my third research paper of this year, but a history degree is a fancy piece of paper and what is a drawing if not also a fancy piece of paper!
So I drew Katte. Because whenever I feel anxious about the future and my general existence I remind myself that at least that's not me. And I went outside of my comfort zone and drew a horse! Here it is:
I found this photo on tumblr months ago and thought "That looks pretty cool, I want to do that" and made a sketch and didn't finish it for ages. I really need to figure out a way to photograph coloured pencil drawings that makes them look true to life... Anyway! I drew something from the list too! Or I tried to. I found a small frame in my grandma's basement and drew a small Lehndorff for the small frame. He can hang next to Henri if I ever get that picture sorted out.
I hope you like the newest additions to the collection and will now disappear into the void again to pretend like I'm still managing Uni despite the pandemic! I hope you are and remain in good health and I will post again when I get everything sorted out :'D
So I drew Katte. Because whenever I feel anxious about the future and my general existence I remind myself that at least that's not me. And I went outside of my comfort zone and drew a horse! Here it is:
I found this photo on tumblr months ago and thought "That looks pretty cool, I want to do that" and made a sketch and didn't finish it for ages. I really need to figure out a way to photograph coloured pencil drawings that makes them look true to life... Anyway! I drew something from the list too! Or I tried to. I found a small frame in my grandma's basement and drew a small Lehndorff for the small frame. He can hang next to Henri if I ever get that picture sorted out.
I hope you like the newest additions to the collection and will now disappear into the void again to pretend like I'm still managing Uni despite the pandemic! I hope you are and remain in good health and I will post again when I get everything sorted out :'D
More art omg!!! I'm still amazed and awed at how you can produce art that looks like things, like how even does that work?? and even creative things! *is semi-coherent with flailing*
I am a huge fan of Katte on a horse, omg, as you could no doubt guess, but I am awed that Lehndorff was instantly recognizable. You have such talent! (Katte's CO once wrote that he was always either on a horse or playing the flute, so I love seeing him on a horse. <3)
but a history degree is a fancy piece of paper and what is a drawing if not also a fancy piece of paper!
LOL SO HARD
Because whenever I feel anxious about the future and my general existence I remind myself that at least that's not me.
Lolsob.
Good luck with uni! I think salon is going to be slow for a bit while I study German, but around the end of May![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
gambitten will be back from uni, and you'll be back, and I should hopefully be back from full-time German by then, and it will be amaaazing. :DDD
I've been thinking of you recently, because I have a request for you, but due to my hiatus and your uni, it will wait. Cheers!
I am a huge fan of Katte on a horse, omg, as you could no doubt guess, but I am awed that Lehndorff was instantly recognizable. You have such talent! (Katte's CO once wrote that he was always either on a horse or playing the flute, so I love seeing him on a horse. <3)
but a history degree is a fancy piece of paper and what is a drawing if not also a fancy piece of paper!
LOL SO HARD
Because whenever I feel anxious about the future and my general existence I remind myself that at least that's not me.
Lolsob.
Good luck with uni! I think salon is going to be slow for a bit while I study German, but around the end of May
gambitten will be back from uni, and you'll be back, and I should hopefully be back from full-time German by then, and it will be amaaazing. :DDDI've been thinking of you recently, because I have a request for you, but due to my hiatus and your uni, it will wait. Cheers!
Thank you for the lovely art you treat us with. Katte looks very dashing on his horse, and Lehndorff adorable (and instantly recognizable). I'm glad to hear you're enjoying his diaries. Btw, once you're through the initial volume which is still (or rather, again) in print, remember we have have volumes II (aka where Schmidt-Lötzen put all the censored bits, including even more fervent love declarations to Heinrich and the entire Marwitz tale, but also nearly all of Lehndorff's family and marriages entries - if you just read the original volume, where there's next to nothing about either, you'd think his wives and kids were non existent in his emotional life, which isn't true, and you're missing out both the heartbreak when the children die and the joy when one of them gets better and lives) and III in our PDF library linked at ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
rheinsberg.
Best of luck with Uni!
rheinsberg. Best of luck with Uni!
Still in a character switching mood, only this time only with real people: it occured to me that in most stories where characters wake up in each other's bodies, the narrative goal is both maximum hilarity and at least one of the two characters Learning An Important Lesson. (Obviously, back when I did my Lehndorff/Fontane time travelling switch, I weant for maximum hilarity and Fontane doing research. *g*)
Now, if we avoid time travel altogether, and allow switching only between people alive at the same time, what would be ideal combinations? For Fritz, I'm tempted to go with Madame de Pompadour.
The Marquise would work like a monkey paw as well. He wakes up in France, Versailles and/or Paris, no less, which he always wanted to visit, no one speaks German, he's surrounded only by French art, literature and music...but he's a woman. Who's a mistress, and whose worldly power entirely derives from that, meaning that if Fritz doesn't want to end up powerless again, he can't let Reinette repent and withdraw from court. (Depending on when this takes place, sex with Louis XV. isn't an issue anymore, but he doesn't know that.) He can be witty, in fact, it's expected of him, but he has to entertain the bored Louis most of all and never, ever, be sarcastic or mean towards him.
Ideally, this takes place in the late 1740s when Voltaire is still in France and Émilie is still alive, because I'd crown it with Fritz-in-Pompadour with clenched teeth deciding to confide in Voltaire, proving it's really him (which on one else in would be in a position to verify or believe) and ask for help to return in his rightful body, and Voltaire then saying that he's not the scientist, Émilie is. Only Émilie has found about about Voltaire/Madame Denis and isn't in the mood for any favours, so Fritz-in-Pompadour really has to offer her something major to convince her. Like, say, persuading Louis to change the law in France so the Academie Francaise accepts female members, starting with Émilie. *g*
Meanwhile, the Marquise de Pompadour in Fritz' body at first seems to have an ideal time. Everyone around her speaks French, so no linguistic trouble there, and she finally doesn't have to cater to Louis' moods anymore. Or suffer attacks from the clergy. She can just order stuff and it gets done. It's worth putting up with a less than ideal body for that, even though she immediately changes Fritz' hygeniec habits and puts an end to hiding the fact he still wears nice clothing in private, not just the eternal uniform. And his library is great! (She's an avid reader.)
...But there's that Chamberlain/Treasurer/Man of undefined offices NOT speaking French who eyes her with increasing suspicion. And she can't play the flute. (She can do many things and has had a top education, including music lessons, but that's not the same as being an accomplished flutist.) And she starts to wonder whether they'll decide she's in impostor and the real Fritz is kept prisoner somewhere or has been murdered, which probably means the death penalty in Prussia. So she, too, needs to figure out a way to reverse the switch! Whom to ask, to confide in? Why... newly returned to Prussia Algarotti, of course. Who's been flirting with her non-stop anyway and actually takes the news in stride, since he's suspected something like that (not that this stops him flirting) and has met the Marquise de Pompadour in Paris, so can verify she is who she says she is.
Thoughts? Other contemporary combinations for Fritz? Or anyone else?
(Me, I'm toying with G2/FW and Lehndorff/Lord Hervey, but I'm at a loss whom Wilhelmine should temporarily exchange places with...
Now, if we avoid time travel altogether, and allow switching only between people alive at the same time, what would be ideal combinations? For Fritz, I'm tempted to go with Madame de Pompadour.
The Marquise would work like a monkey paw as well. He wakes up in France, Versailles and/or Paris, no less, which he always wanted to visit, no one speaks German, he's surrounded only by French art, literature and music...but he's a woman. Who's a mistress, and whose worldly power entirely derives from that, meaning that if Fritz doesn't want to end up powerless again, he can't let Reinette repent and withdraw from court. (Depending on when this takes place, sex with Louis XV. isn't an issue anymore, but he doesn't know that.) He can be witty, in fact, it's expected of him, but he has to entertain the bored Louis most of all and never, ever, be sarcastic or mean towards him.
Ideally, this takes place in the late 1740s when Voltaire is still in France and Émilie is still alive, because I'd crown it with Fritz-in-Pompadour with clenched teeth deciding to confide in Voltaire, proving it's really him (which on one else in would be in a position to verify or believe) and ask for help to return in his rightful body, and Voltaire then saying that he's not the scientist, Émilie is. Only Émilie has found about about Voltaire/Madame Denis and isn't in the mood for any favours, so Fritz-in-Pompadour really has to offer her something major to convince her. Like, say, persuading Louis to change the law in France so the Academie Francaise accepts female members, starting with Émilie. *g*
Meanwhile, the Marquise de Pompadour in Fritz' body at first seems to have an ideal time. Everyone around her speaks French, so no linguistic trouble there, and she finally doesn't have to cater to Louis' moods anymore. Or suffer attacks from the clergy. She can just order stuff and it gets done. It's worth putting up with a less than ideal body for that, even though she immediately changes Fritz' hygeniec habits and puts an end to hiding the fact he still wears nice clothing in private, not just the eternal uniform. And his library is great! (She's an avid reader.)
...But there's that Chamberlain/Treasurer/Man of undefined offices NOT speaking French who eyes her with increasing suspicion. And she can't play the flute. (She can do many things and has had a top education, including music lessons, but that's not the same as being an accomplished flutist.) And she starts to wonder whether they'll decide she's in impostor and the real Fritz is kept prisoner somewhere or has been murdered, which probably means the death penalty in Prussia. So she, too, needs to figure out a way to reverse the switch! Whom to ask, to confide in? Why... newly returned to Prussia Algarotti, of course. Who's been flirting with her non-stop anyway and actually takes the news in stride, since he's suspected something like that (not that this stops him flirting) and has met the Marquise de Pompadour in Paris, so can verify she is who she says she is.
Thoughts? Other contemporary combinations for Fritz? Or anyone else?
(Me, I'm toying with G2/FW and Lehndorff/Lord Hervey, but I'm at a loss whom Wilhelmine should temporarily exchange places with...
omg this is sooooo coooool :DDDDDDD Art from the void! :D Katte on a horse!!
(Is that really how you hold a sword? I have no idea, lol.)
Oh man, your Lehndorff is so great and I could immediately tell he was a sweetheart, I love that that came through instantly <3 Cute frame, too! So small and cute, Lehndorff makes a great miniature <3 (Now we need to find you a locket, so you can draw Lehndorff and Heinrich side by side inside it ;) )
(Re reading Lehndorff: isn't Lehndorff such a sweetie!! I started reading to practice my own German and I was loving it but then my reading in general and my German in specific sort of fell off a cliff and now I've got Hugo reading, but I've been meaning to get back to it... maybe after the Hugos. Ping me when you get back from uni and maybe we can read together :) )
Because whenever I feel anxious about the future and my general existence I remind myself that at least that's not me.
Ha, I do that too! (But more with fictional characters.)
Good luck with uni, and looking forward to seeing you soon!
(Is that really how you hold a sword? I have no idea, lol.)
Oh man, your Lehndorff is so great and I could immediately tell he was a sweetheart, I love that that came through instantly <3 Cute frame, too! So small and cute, Lehndorff makes a great miniature <3 (Now we need to find you a locket, so you can draw Lehndorff and Heinrich side by side inside it ;) )
(Re reading Lehndorff: isn't Lehndorff such a sweetie!! I started reading to practice my own German and I was loving it but then my reading in general and my German in specific sort of fell off a cliff and now I've got Hugo reading, but I've been meaning to get back to it... maybe after the Hugos. Ping me when you get back from uni and maybe we can read together :) )
Because whenever I feel anxious about the future and my general existence I remind myself that at least that's not me.
Ha, I do that too! (But more with fictional characters.)
Good luck with uni, and looking forward to seeing you soon!
For Fritz, I'm tempted to go with Madame de Pompadour.
!!!! My reaction to this: okay I have got to ask for this for Yuletide
He wakes up in France, Versailles and/or Paris, no less, which he always wanted to visit, no one speaks German, he's surrounded only by French art, literature and music...but he's a woman. Who's a mistress, and whose worldly power entirely derives from that, meaning that if Fritz doesn't want to end up powerless again, he can't let Reinette repent and withdraw from court.
FRITZ. CAN YOU IMAGINE. THIS WOULD BE THE BEST.
Like, say, persuading Louis to change the law in France so the Academie Francaise accepts female members, starting with Émilie.
lolololol yes this is excellent
Mme Pompadour as Fritz is also great and I love her asking Algarotti for help! (lol to him flirting with both Pompadour and Fritz, btw, because of course he would!) Though since she probably stands to learn somewhat less than Fritz (except, gee, I always thought being a man would be better, and huh, except for the fear of being discovered it totally is!) I think Fritz as Pompadour fills me with rather more glee :)
Hmm, Wilhelmine. In the original Freaky Friday spirit, why not FW? :P Though it's not entirely clear that FW would learn anything really...
Oh, here's a question, who might Catherine/Sophie exchange with?
!!!! My reaction to this: okay I have got to ask for this for Yuletide
He wakes up in France, Versailles and/or Paris, no less, which he always wanted to visit, no one speaks German, he's surrounded only by French art, literature and music...but he's a woman. Who's a mistress, and whose worldly power entirely derives from that, meaning that if Fritz doesn't want to end up powerless again, he can't let Reinette repent and withdraw from court.
FRITZ. CAN YOU IMAGINE. THIS WOULD BE THE BEST.
Like, say, persuading Louis to change the law in France so the Academie Francaise accepts female members, starting with Émilie.
lolololol yes this is excellent
Mme Pompadour as Fritz is also great and I love her asking Algarotti for help! (lol to him flirting with both Pompadour and Fritz, btw, because of course he would!) Though since she probably stands to learn somewhat less than Fritz (except, gee, I always thought being a man would be better, and huh, except for the fear of being discovered it totally is!) I think Fritz as Pompadour fills me with rather more glee :)
Hmm, Wilhelmine. In the original Freaky Friday spirit, why not FW? :P Though it's not entirely clear that FW would learn anything really...
Oh, here's a question, who might Catherine/Sophie exchange with?
Belatedly, it occured to me that the big "what if?" in Wilhelmine's life was becoming Queen of England. But the problem here for story purposes is that Fritz of Wales never made it to the throne, he died first. so if Wilhelmine switched places with his wife Augusta, all she could learn would be what she's convinced of already: that Fritz of Bayreuth made a better husband, and that the Hannover cousins were as dysfunctional a family as the Hohenzollerns. She'd have to switch places with her not!mother-in-law Caroline to try out a time as Queen of England within her own (i.e. Wilhelmine's) life time. And Caroline dies in 1737, so it would have to happen before that point, ideally during one of the times when G2 was in Hannover and thus Caroline was Regent in England, which would give Wilhelmine the chance to rule (within constitutional bounds), and would spare her sex with Uncle George. (Because that marriage was decidedly not platonic even in middle age.)
Mind you, against the spirit of the trope, I can see only two reasons why she wouldn't thoroughly enjoy the experience: 1) Caroline's physical condition (Wilhelmine was no stranger to sickness herself, but Caroline in her final years had gout in her feet and suffered from the long term effects of the umbilical hernia she had experienced at the birth of her last child. and 2) 1735!Wilhelmine (that was the last year Caroline could be regent) would of course miss both Fritzes, her brother and her husband, as well as her daughter, and finding Caroline engaged in a feud of mutual loathing with Fritz of Wales would not be fun, either, though I doubt Wilhelmine would care much that Fritz of Wales resented his mother (especially given she did resent Caroline herself at this point; she might even stun the Hannover cousins by actually talking in a non-hostile way to "her" estranged son?).
Meanwhile, Caroline, stuck in a younger body in a backward tiny German principality, would just conclude that she definitely made the right choice back in the day when picking G2 over FW, and get to work on getting her rightful body back, current young adoring husband not withstanding.
Oh, here's a question, who might Catherine/Sophie exchange with?
Depending how serious or how cracky you want the story to be: either an exploited Russian serf (VERY serious variation) or one of her philosopher correspondents (crack variation). Say, Diderot. Diderot-in-Catherine would have the chance to actually start all those reforms he's been urging her to make, but he'd also manage to piss off the Russian nobility in no time flat, make Catherine's long term fave and minister Potemkin distrustful and weird out her boytoy du jour for no longer wanting enthusiastic sex. Since deposed rulers have a very limited life span in Russia, the switch back probably happens just in the nick of time to save both his and Catherine's lives. If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, he also manages to piss of the Russian nobility very quickly, but not as quite as fast, especially since his proposed law changes aren't quite as radical. Otoh, he might be eying the chance to use Catherine's armies against Constantinople as he's been arguing by letter, which some of them would still be keen on.
Meanwhile, Catherine-in-Diderot would at some lovel enjoy the Parisian philosophe life and being a man on a "this is me, taking a holiday" level, but she'd miss power, and while not averse to trying out f/f with Diderot's mistress du jour at least once would not cope with his pious, strong tempered wife for long. (She definitely did not miss being married!) She might involve Diderot in an m/m relationship before she leaves, though. Being on the other end of censorship again and having to worry about the church and state would not be new for her - she had had to watch her every word during her first two decades in Russia, after all - and thus there wouldn't be much to learn on that level.
If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, she'll get in a blazing row with Madame Denis in no times flat and will frighten the community of Ferney with her authoritarianism, thus ruining Voltaire's philanthropic reputation. Otoh, no more "I'm dying any minute!" hypochondria, and Voltaire to everyone's stunned surprise takes to horse riding in his old age and suddenly eats much more, thus losing his skeleton frame. He'll also put the moves on his next handsome, well educated yet not power hungry male visitor. (Casanova? Boswell?)
Mind you, against the spirit of the trope, I can see only two reasons why she wouldn't thoroughly enjoy the experience: 1) Caroline's physical condition (Wilhelmine was no stranger to sickness herself, but Caroline in her final years had gout in her feet and suffered from the long term effects of the umbilical hernia she had experienced at the birth of her last child. and 2) 1735!Wilhelmine (that was the last year Caroline could be regent) would of course miss both Fritzes, her brother and her husband, as well as her daughter, and finding Caroline engaged in a feud of mutual loathing with Fritz of Wales would not be fun, either, though I doubt Wilhelmine would care much that Fritz of Wales resented his mother (especially given she did resent Caroline herself at this point; she might even stun the Hannover cousins by actually talking in a non-hostile way to "her" estranged son?).
Meanwhile, Caroline, stuck in a younger body in a backward tiny German principality, would just conclude that she definitely made the right choice back in the day when picking G2 over FW, and get to work on getting her rightful body back, current young adoring husband not withstanding.
Oh, here's a question, who might Catherine/Sophie exchange with?
Depending how serious or how cracky you want the story to be: either an exploited Russian serf (VERY serious variation) or one of her philosopher correspondents (crack variation). Say, Diderot. Diderot-in-Catherine would have the chance to actually start all those reforms he's been urging her to make, but he'd also manage to piss off the Russian nobility in no time flat, make Catherine's long term fave and minister Potemkin distrustful and weird out her boytoy du jour for no longer wanting enthusiastic sex. Since deposed rulers have a very limited life span in Russia, the switch back probably happens just in the nick of time to save both his and Catherine's lives. If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, he also manages to piss of the Russian nobility very quickly, but not as quite as fast, especially since his proposed law changes aren't quite as radical. Otoh, he might be eying the chance to use Catherine's armies against Constantinople as he's been arguing by letter, which some of them would still be keen on.
Meanwhile, Catherine-in-Diderot would at some lovel enjoy the Parisian philosophe life and being a man on a "this is me, taking a holiday" level, but she'd miss power, and while not averse to trying out f/f with Diderot's mistress du jour at least once would not cope with his pious, strong tempered wife for long. (She definitely did not miss being married!) She might involve Diderot in an m/m relationship before she leaves, though. Being on the other end of censorship again and having to worry about the church and state would not be new for her - she had had to watch her every word during her first two decades in Russia, after all - and thus there wouldn't be much to learn on that level.
If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, she'll get in a blazing row with Madame Denis in no times flat and will frighten the community of Ferney with her authoritarianism, thus ruining Voltaire's philanthropic reputation. Otoh, no more "I'm dying any minute!" hypochondria, and Voltaire to everyone's stunned surprise takes to horse riding in his old age and suddenly eats much more, thus losing his skeleton frame. He'll also put the moves on his next handsome, well educated yet not power hungry male visitor. (Casanova? Boswell?)
Edited 2021-04-21 06:55 (UTC)
Heh, yeah, it does rather seem that Caroline and Wilhelmine might not exactly learn that much from the experience, although maybe Wilhelmine would feel even better about the English marriages not being made :)
Depending how serious or how cracky you want the story to be: either an exploited Russian serf (VERY serious variation) or one of her philosopher correspondents (crack variation).
my answer to this is YES :)
Heh, I quite like the idea of Diderot-in-Catherine, and him discovering that this ruling-without-getting-deposed thing is a liiiitle bit harder than it looks :)
If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, she'll get in a blazing row with Madame Denis in no times flat
Okay, I know this is partially because Orieux biased me against her, but even without that I would find Catherine kicking Mme Denis out hilarious.
He'll also put the moves on his next handsome, well educated yet not power hungry male visitor. (Casanova? Boswell?)
HAHAHAHAHA
Depending how serious or how cracky you want the story to be: either an exploited Russian serf (VERY serious variation) or one of her philosopher correspondents (crack variation).
my answer to this is YES :)
Heh, I quite like the idea of Diderot-in-Catherine, and him discovering that this ruling-without-getting-deposed thing is a liiiitle bit harder than it looks :)
If Catherine switches with Voltaire instead, she'll get in a blazing row with Madame Denis in no times flat
Okay, I know this is partially because Orieux biased me against her, but even without that I would find Catherine kicking Mme Denis out hilarious.
He'll also put the moves on his next handsome, well educated yet not power hungry male visitor. (Casanova? Boswell?)
HAHAHAHAHA
my Lehndorff/Fontane time travelling switch
Wait, did I miss that? ETA: Nevermind, found your comment from last year. :D
re: Wilhelmine, my thoughts went to MT, either pre-marriages (which would be rather sad for Wilhelmine upon switch-back) or later on (but not during war time I think).
As for Fritz, I'd like to stay close to home and propose Heinrich. Fritz could have his quiet Rheinsberg life - with occasional directives from the monarch - forever! Heinrich would get to actually decide and do something on his own for a change! Now let's see how they like it and if they can stay away from each other ... :D
Wait, did I miss that? ETA: Nevermind, found your comment from last year. :D
re: Wilhelmine, my thoughts went to MT, either pre-marriages (which would be rather sad for Wilhelmine upon switch-back) or later on (but not during war time I think).
As for Fritz, I'd like to stay close to home and propose Heinrich. Fritz could have his quiet Rheinsberg life - with occasional directives from the monarch - forever! Heinrich would get to actually decide and do something on his own for a change! Now let's see how they like it and if they can stay away from each other ... :D
Edited 2021-04-23 09:07 (UTC)
Now that would truly be in the spirit of finding out whether the road not taken really was the easier/harder one! Two questions immediately came to my mind:
1) Is or isn't Fritz' first comment after waking up at Rheinsberg in Heinrich's body: "He redecorated! Why did he redecorate?" and does he ever stop grumbling about this? (Not because he doesn't like the result. Their tastes in architecture and paintings were too similar for that. But the fact that Heinrich did make significant changes just would not go uncommented.)
2.) If this happens still in the Kaphengst years, does he break up with Kaphengst with or without having had sex with him to find out whether he really was that spectacular in bed to make all the years and all the expenses and the postponed Paris trip worth it?
As for Heinrich, much as he yearned for political action, I think the sheer amount of Fritz' punishing workload would be even more staggering than he'd imagined, but then Heinrich did argue for more delegation in his theoretical writings. I guess we'd find out whether he'd be able to follow suit if he has absolute power himself. One thing is for sure, though: no more eternal uniform. (Heinrich did not drink the cool-aid in that regard. He wanted to be buried in one, sure, but outside of special occasions, he wore civilian clothings.) And I bet the musicians get confused when the King takes up violin instead of the flute.
1) Is or isn't Fritz' first comment after waking up at Rheinsberg in Heinrich's body: "He redecorated! Why did he redecorate?" and does he ever stop grumbling about this? (Not because he doesn't like the result. Their tastes in architecture and paintings were too similar for that. But the fact that Heinrich did make significant changes just would not go uncommented.)
2.) If this happens still in the Kaphengst years, does he break up with Kaphengst with or without having had sex with him to find out whether he really was that spectacular in bed to make all the years and all the expenses and the postponed Paris trip worth it?
As for Heinrich, much as he yearned for political action, I think the sheer amount of Fritz' punishing workload would be even more staggering than he'd imagined, but then Heinrich did argue for more delegation in his theoretical writings. I guess we'd find out whether he'd be able to follow suit if he has absolute power himself. One thing is for sure, though: no more eternal uniform. (Heinrich did not drink the cool-aid in that regard. He wanted to be buried in one, sure, but outside of special occasions, he wore civilian clothings.) And I bet the musicians get confused when the King takes up violin instead of the flute.
Something that occurred to me re: Pompadour!Fritz - how much trouble would he have with the French court etiquette?
And on the other side of that switch, I do rather want that Pompadour - suspicious!Fredersdorff showdown...
Is or isn't Fritz' first comment after waking up at Rheinsberg in Heinrich's body: "He redecorated! Why did he redecorate?"
Overlapping with the second question, but I'd say that depends on who he wakes up with :P (By the way, do we know if Heinrich ever got drunk? Or was he as careful as Fritz in that regard?) But I guess it's better that Heinrich did indeed redecorate, or Fritz might not even realize what happened for a while, waking up from strange dreams about his future as king... (But where the heck is Fredersdorf and who stole his flute?)
As for the design work, I can't quite decide if he'd be impressed with Heinrich continuing the work in the gardens or if he'd end up missing Sanssouci. (Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.)
If this happens still in the Kaphengst years, does he break up with Kaphengst with or without having had sex with him
Well, I do think his personal distaste for the guy is going to win out, but in case he does feel especiallyhorny curious after all - what with inhabiting a younger body and all - I doubt it'll get anywhere productive regardless, because I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way).
As for Heinrich, I can imagine him seizing the day and immediately making some changes - by the way, would the dogs notice a switch? because that could be another obstacle for whoever gets to inhabit Fritz' body - but my real question is if he could resist making it personal re: Fritz.
And on the other side of that switch, I do rather want that Pompadour - suspicious!Fredersdorff showdown...
Is or isn't Fritz' first comment after waking up at Rheinsberg in Heinrich's body: "He redecorated! Why did he redecorate?"
Overlapping with the second question, but I'd say that depends on who he wakes up with :P (By the way, do we know if Heinrich ever got drunk? Or was he as careful as Fritz in that regard?) But I guess it's better that Heinrich did indeed redecorate, or Fritz might not even realize what happened for a while, waking up from strange dreams about his future as king... (But where the heck is Fredersdorf and who stole his flute?)
As for the design work, I can't quite decide if he'd be impressed with Heinrich continuing the work in the gardens or if he'd end up missing Sanssouci. (Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.)
If this happens still in the Kaphengst years, does he break up with Kaphengst with or without having had sex with him
Well, I do think his personal distaste for the guy is going to win out, but in case he does feel especially
As for Heinrich, I can imagine him seizing the day and immediately making some changes - by the way, would the dogs notice a switch? because that could be another obstacle for whoever gets to inhabit Fritz' body - but my real question is if he could resist making it personal re: Fritz.
Finished this a couple of days ago and the ending didn't get any easier from knowing it was coming. :(
On the contrary, spending all the years of their correspondence with them beforehand just made it worse. (Fritz, shut up already, you've made your point!) Sigh.
That said, I feel like it wasn't as unpredictable as I thought! The letters aren't always easy to judge on their own - and AW's 1756 ones to Mina that Volz included show that he talked about things very differently to her than he did to Fritz, long before the big implosion - but there were a couple of conflicts even during the earlier years; not just the Heinrich one in 1749, but also two with AW himself in 1750 and 1755, both about matters concerning Fritz's handling of AW's regiments, i.e. Fritz going over his head and AW taking it very personally (mentions of honour and feeling useless included). Even Fritz' accusation of only listening to flattery/the wrong people shows up way earlier and when AW wants him to name names, Fritz only answers with "I see you want to involve me in a drawn-out argument, not happening, I'm done".
My impression in general was that AW was rather insecure with Fritz (there's quite a lot of impersonal OTT praise for Fritz as king), that they talked at cross-purposes (and cross-expectations) at times, focusing on things very differently, and that Fritz' impatience did not help. And while Fritz' recurring "stop over-interpreting everything I say!" is his "who, me?" perspective, I do think - admittedly just from reading the correspondence, and as chosen by Volz - that he might have had a tiny point there. So you can kind of see some roots for 1757 if you know it's coming (but Fritz's explosion is still a shock).
One early and harmless illustration of disconnect that immediately stuck out to me was in September 1747: Fritz writes to AW from Sanssouci, in response to a letter in which AW said he'd be sad if he ended up like Moses and only got to see the beautiful vineyard and his brother from afar: I won't invite you to come here, nor will I send you fruit that you haven't picked yourself. You are old enough to do both and I told you often enough that nothing could delight me more than to see you. But I won't invite you. You will come when you want and go when you like. Brothers shouldn't be on flattery terms with each other ["nicht auf dem Komplimentierfuße stehen"]. I embrace you a thousand times.
It's on this fine line between sweet/playful and impatient/admonishing and where the relationship goes from there is quite open at that point, but turns into tragedy ten years later.
Staying on the positive side, I didn't know that AW got a Biche letter as well! In May 1749, right before the whole Heinrich kerfuffle, and a year after Wilhelmine's. Biche asks him to be godfather to her pups (their father is called Mylord by the way) and AW accepts in a letter to Fritz. Aw.
Amusing: November 1746, there are rumours that G2 might be dying. Says Fritz: If that's true, there will be a battle between him and our father at Pluto's. AW's answer: I'm sure one can talk to each other in the hereafter and I'm sure our father will treat him drastically and won't skimp on the most exquisite insults.
(Not many FW mentions otherwise, but, notably, AW implicitely invokes him in 1749, when trying to help Heinrich. I totally get his intention, but I feel like "you've been such a good and gracious king so far, don't become like dad now" might not have been the best course to take, and "you know how it felt" might seem like a sensible argument, but, well. Not with Fritz.)
Finally, while Fritz needling AW re: procreation and delivering heirs was another instance of "shut uuuup, Fritz", I was rather amused by a "the Stoics are tyrants, Epicurism all the way" letter from 1748. Unfortunately, Volz doesn't include the AW letter that prompted it (and Preuss has neither of them), but the context was Fritz taking the waters and everything that went with it, so I guess AW must have said something about Fritz' abstinence or something. Fritz then feels compelled to write a whole letter on natural drives and not suppressing them - he himself totally doesn't! - and I'm still wondering to what extent he's talking about sex here, when he lists hunger, sleep, and pleasure ("when our life and nature have accumulated surplus energy") as the three drives.
On the contrary, spending all the years of their correspondence with them beforehand just made it worse. (Fritz, shut up already, you've made your point!) Sigh.
That said, I feel like it wasn't as unpredictable as I thought! The letters aren't always easy to judge on their own - and AW's 1756 ones to Mina that Volz included show that he talked about things very differently to her than he did to Fritz, long before the big implosion - but there were a couple of conflicts even during the earlier years; not just the Heinrich one in 1749, but also two with AW himself in 1750 and 1755, both about matters concerning Fritz's handling of AW's regiments, i.e. Fritz going over his head and AW taking it very personally (mentions of honour and feeling useless included). Even Fritz' accusation of only listening to flattery/the wrong people shows up way earlier and when AW wants him to name names, Fritz only answers with "I see you want to involve me in a drawn-out argument, not happening, I'm done".
My impression in general was that AW was rather insecure with Fritz (there's quite a lot of impersonal OTT praise for Fritz as king), that they talked at cross-purposes (and cross-expectations) at times, focusing on things very differently, and that Fritz' impatience did not help. And while Fritz' recurring "stop over-interpreting everything I say!" is his "who, me?" perspective, I do think - admittedly just from reading the correspondence, and as chosen by Volz - that he might have had a tiny point there. So you can kind of see some roots for 1757 if you know it's coming (but Fritz's explosion is still a shock).
One early and harmless illustration of disconnect that immediately stuck out to me was in September 1747: Fritz writes to AW from Sanssouci, in response to a letter in which AW said he'd be sad if he ended up like Moses and only got to see the beautiful vineyard and his brother from afar: I won't invite you to come here, nor will I send you fruit that you haven't picked yourself. You are old enough to do both and I told you often enough that nothing could delight me more than to see you. But I won't invite you. You will come when you want and go when you like. Brothers shouldn't be on flattery terms with each other ["nicht auf dem Komplimentierfuße stehen"]. I embrace you a thousand times.
It's on this fine line between sweet/playful and impatient/admonishing and where the relationship goes from there is quite open at that point, but turns into tragedy ten years later.
Staying on the positive side, I didn't know that AW got a Biche letter as well! In May 1749, right before the whole Heinrich kerfuffle, and a year after Wilhelmine's. Biche asks him to be godfather to her pups (their father is called Mylord by the way) and AW accepts in a letter to Fritz. Aw.
Amusing: November 1746, there are rumours that G2 might be dying. Says Fritz: If that's true, there will be a battle between him and our father at Pluto's. AW's answer: I'm sure one can talk to each other in the hereafter and I'm sure our father will treat him drastically and won't skimp on the most exquisite insults.
(Not many FW mentions otherwise, but, notably, AW implicitely invokes him in 1749, when trying to help Heinrich. I totally get his intention, but I feel like "you've been such a good and gracious king so far, don't become like dad now" might not have been the best course to take, and "you know how it felt" might seem like a sensible argument, but, well. Not with Fritz.)
Finally, while Fritz needling AW re: procreation and delivering heirs was another instance of "shut uuuup, Fritz", I was rather amused by a "the Stoics are tyrants, Epicurism all the way" letter from 1748. Unfortunately, Volz doesn't include the AW letter that prompted it (and Preuss has neither of them), but the context was Fritz taking the waters and everything that went with it, so I guess AW must have said something about Fritz' abstinence or something. Fritz then feels compelled to write a whole letter on natural drives and not suppressing them - he himself totally doesn't! - and I'm still wondering to what extent he's talking about sex here, when he lists hunger, sleep, and pleasure ("when our life and nature have accumulated surplus energy") as the three drives.
there were a couple of conflicts even during the earlier years; not just the Heinrich one in 1749, but also two with AW himself in 1750 and 1755, both about matters concerning Fritz's handling of AW's regiments, i.e. Fritz going over his head and AW taking it very personally (mentions of honour and feeling useless included).
Ziebura does include those in her AW biography, and provides earlier context; the sense of being useless (and the idea of being regarded as useless by Fritz, specifically) starts between Silesian Wars, she says, when otoh AW is made Prince of Prussia (and hence officially designated as heir), but so far out of the loop for anything military and political that he has no idea Fritz will start the second Silesian War a week before it happens, as opposed to his correspondent Ferdinand of Braunschweig (EC's military gifted brother), who does. And then kid brother Heinrich, still a teenager, gets his Marschbefehl before AW does. Why Fritz didn't order both of them to join the army at the same time is Fritz' mystery. BTW, on the positive side, Ziebura says Fritz continued his campaign to get AW reading and to encourage him to self educate well into his kingship through their correspondence, and that AW responds positively as can be seen not just via letters but in his library including not just all the books Fritz reccommended but a lot more. Ziebura also analyses the memoranda AW wrote after the second Silesian War with "What I'd do were I in charge of Prussia" ideas. All of which seems to me coming down to: like Fritz, AW was the son of a workoholic who'd preached to all his kids that idleness was one of the worst sins ever and a man wasn't a man if he wasn't a) working, and b) also a respected soldier. And while FW was paranoia itself, he did put Crown Prince Fritz to work in terms other than military drill ones (the whole Küstrin "reeducation" procedure did include a crash course in economics, after all, and the duty to participate in Küstrin civilian administration. This was the basis of comparison AW had for how a sovereign treats a crown prince at his age. Whereas from Fritz, he gets mainly "go forth and multiply" instructions, gets absolutely no intel on the war(s) going on (and since Fritz was an active campaigner, Fritz could have died; the prospect of suddenly becoming King with zero knowledge of what's going on must have been terrifying); and then, when it's peacetime again and he does get regimental (drilling) duties, Fritz is micromanaging there, too. It would be hard not to wonder "does Fritz think I'm stupid and incapable?" under those circumstances.
(Whereas Fritz probably thought he was doing young AW a favor when not shoving responsibilities on him and letting him enjoy his youth a bit longer, plus his paranoia was even greater than FW's.)
Biche letter: I had come across it, I think in one of the Volz anthologies but I'm not sure, and agree, it's adorable, too. Also, tsk, Biche, cheating on Folichon with Mylord.
Amusing: November 1746, there are rumours that G2 might be dying. Says Fritz: If that's true, there will be a battle between him and our father at Pluto's. AW's answer: I'm sure one can talk to each other in the hereafter and I'm sure our father will treat him drastically and won't skimp on the most exquisite insults.
LOL. Good to know FW's sons feel the same popcorn glee about the FW/G2 feud as we do. (Mind you, we later borns can conclude G2 and FW were exactly as bad as each other and thus part of the fun is rooting for neither, whereas I expect Fritz and AW would not have been rooting for Uncle George.)
It's on this fine line between sweet/playful and impatient/admonishing and where the relationship goes from there is quite open at that point, but turns into tragedy ten years later.
I think part of the inherent tragedy is also that Fritz, as sovereign, has taken over the father role for his siblings in addition to the older brother role. Because mutual fraternal ribbing is possible and enjoyable in their society, but you can't tease Dad The King back (unless you're Charlotte), not in their family, at least.
Even Fritz' accusation of only listening to flattery/the wrong people shows up way earlier and when AW wants him to name names, Fritz only answers with "I see you want to involve me in a drawn-out argument, not happening, I'm done".
Now this is fascinating, and I can't make up my mind on various possibilities, such as:
1.) Fritz is simply evoking a trope. Which "you're listening to flattery/the wrong people" really really is for their day. It's the standard criticism of princes, both in and out of power. Of course, Fritz - who levels this charge at quite a number of princes, from Louis XV to the Hannover relations - prided himself on being immune to this, which is very much NOT what fond but critical observers like later Mitchell think (see his remarks on Fritz & the two Roman named guys, Lentulus & Quintus Icilius, for example). (And of course all the way back to the Crown Prince days, FW used this very trope against Fritz when accusing him of only listening to flatterers while disliking all his father's friends, etc. Always trust Fritz to reproduce his father's insults towards someone else.) Meaning: the reason why Fritz doesn't counter with specific names is that he can't think of any, he just used the trope.
2.) Fritz means Heinrich and wants to avoid another Heinrich argument. Argument for this: not just hindsight but contemporary sources like Tyrconnel, the French envoy after Valory, name Heinrich as the biggest influence on AW in the early 1750s. Argument against this: Fritz had no problem writing "Heinrich is your idol" and accusing AW of believing him over Fritz in the big 1749 argument. So why being coy this time around if Heinrich was whom he meant?
3.) Fritz means their dear departed father and is unable to say so because he KNOWS it would make him sound jealous. Because it was FW who declared, and not just once, that of all his children, AW was the one in whose future success and greatness he was confident.
4.) Fritz actually literally means what he says, people from AW's circle of friends. The problem here is the same as when Henri de Catt later reports him fuming against unnamed evil flatterers turning AW against him - why not call a spade a spade and say who? Also, if we go by those friends who were actually around AW till (nearly, since he self isolated in his last weeks) the end, other than family members and servants, these would be basically Isaac de Forcade (later appointed by Fritz as Hofmarschall to future FW2 after Borcke was fired, so hardly a suspect for anti-Fritzian sentiments to him) and Lehndorff (definitely someone prone to talk very complimentary to and about AW, but never encouraging him to feud with the King).
What do you think?
I was rather amused by a "the Stoics are tyrants, Epicurism all the way" letter from 1748. Unfortunately, Volz doesn't include the AW letter that prompted it (and Preuss has neither of them), but the context was Fritz taking the waters and everything that went with it, so I guess AW must have said something about Fritz' abstinence or something. Fritz then feels compelled to write a whole letter on natural drives and not suppressing them - he himself totally doesn't! - and I'm still wondering to what extent he's talking about sex here, when he lists hunger, sleep, and pleasure ("when our life and nature have accumulated surplus energy") as the three drives.
Ha. I'm having trouble not to read "pleasure" as sex in this context, either. BTW, two years later, AW discusses Epicure with Maupertuis in letters and unsuprisingly is pro Epicure, too. Maupertuis specifically points out that there are pleasures other than sex and argues that the enjoyment when listening to beautiful music, or reading books, or having interesting conversations may not be as strong as the one you have during sex with a lover, but on the plus side it doesn't weaken the body or distract the soul from duty, so these pleasures are preferable, Monseigneur. As to whether AW in 1750 instinctively defining pleasure as sexual pleasure until this is pointed out to him by Maupertuis supports or argues against Fritz using the term in the same sense - I could see it either way.
Ziebura does include those in her AW biography, and provides earlier context; the sense of being useless (and the idea of being regarded as useless by Fritz, specifically) starts between Silesian Wars, she says, when otoh AW is made Prince of Prussia (and hence officially designated as heir), but so far out of the loop for anything military and political that he has no idea Fritz will start the second Silesian War a week before it happens, as opposed to his correspondent Ferdinand of Braunschweig (EC's military gifted brother), who does. And then kid brother Heinrich, still a teenager, gets his Marschbefehl before AW does. Why Fritz didn't order both of them to join the army at the same time is Fritz' mystery. BTW, on the positive side, Ziebura says Fritz continued his campaign to get AW reading and to encourage him to self educate well into his kingship through their correspondence, and that AW responds positively as can be seen not just via letters but in his library including not just all the books Fritz reccommended but a lot more. Ziebura also analyses the memoranda AW wrote after the second Silesian War with "What I'd do were I in charge of Prussia" ideas. All of which seems to me coming down to: like Fritz, AW was the son of a workoholic who'd preached to all his kids that idleness was one of the worst sins ever and a man wasn't a man if he wasn't a) working, and b) also a respected soldier. And while FW was paranoia itself, he did put Crown Prince Fritz to work in terms other than military drill ones (the whole Küstrin "reeducation" procedure did include a crash course in economics, after all, and the duty to participate in Küstrin civilian administration. This was the basis of comparison AW had for how a sovereign treats a crown prince at his age. Whereas from Fritz, he gets mainly "go forth and multiply" instructions, gets absolutely no intel on the war(s) going on (and since Fritz was an active campaigner, Fritz could have died; the prospect of suddenly becoming King with zero knowledge of what's going on must have been terrifying); and then, when it's peacetime again and he does get regimental (drilling) duties, Fritz is micromanaging there, too. It would be hard not to wonder "does Fritz think I'm stupid and incapable?" under those circumstances.
(Whereas Fritz probably thought he was doing young AW a favor when not shoving responsibilities on him and letting him enjoy his youth a bit longer, plus his paranoia was even greater than FW's.)
Biche letter: I had come across it, I think in one of the Volz anthologies but I'm not sure, and agree, it's adorable, too. Also, tsk, Biche, cheating on Folichon with Mylord.
Amusing: November 1746, there are rumours that G2 might be dying. Says Fritz: If that's true, there will be a battle between him and our father at Pluto's. AW's answer: I'm sure one can talk to each other in the hereafter and I'm sure our father will treat him drastically and won't skimp on the most exquisite insults.
LOL. Good to know FW's sons feel the same popcorn glee about the FW/G2 feud as we do. (Mind you, we later borns can conclude G2 and FW were exactly as bad as each other and thus part of the fun is rooting for neither, whereas I expect Fritz and AW would not have been rooting for Uncle George.)
It's on this fine line between sweet/playful and impatient/admonishing and where the relationship goes from there is quite open at that point, but turns into tragedy ten years later.
I think part of the inherent tragedy is also that Fritz, as sovereign, has taken over the father role for his siblings in addition to the older brother role. Because mutual fraternal ribbing is possible and enjoyable in their society, but you can't tease Dad The King back (unless you're Charlotte), not in their family, at least.
Even Fritz' accusation of only listening to flattery/the wrong people shows up way earlier and when AW wants him to name names, Fritz only answers with "I see you want to involve me in a drawn-out argument, not happening, I'm done".
Now this is fascinating, and I can't make up my mind on various possibilities, such as:
1.) Fritz is simply evoking a trope. Which "you're listening to flattery/the wrong people" really really is for their day. It's the standard criticism of princes, both in and out of power. Of course, Fritz - who levels this charge at quite a number of princes, from Louis XV to the Hannover relations - prided himself on being immune to this, which is very much NOT what fond but critical observers like later Mitchell think (see his remarks on Fritz & the two Roman named guys, Lentulus & Quintus Icilius, for example). (And of course all the way back to the Crown Prince days, FW used this very trope against Fritz when accusing him of only listening to flatterers while disliking all his father's friends, etc. Always trust Fritz to reproduce his father's insults towards someone else.) Meaning: the reason why Fritz doesn't counter with specific names is that he can't think of any, he just used the trope.
2.) Fritz means Heinrich and wants to avoid another Heinrich argument. Argument for this: not just hindsight but contemporary sources like Tyrconnel, the French envoy after Valory, name Heinrich as the biggest influence on AW in the early 1750s. Argument against this: Fritz had no problem writing "Heinrich is your idol" and accusing AW of believing him over Fritz in the big 1749 argument. So why being coy this time around if Heinrich was whom he meant?
3.) Fritz means their dear departed father and is unable to say so because he KNOWS it would make him sound jealous. Because it was FW who declared, and not just once, that of all his children, AW was the one in whose future success and greatness he was confident.
4.) Fritz actually literally means what he says, people from AW's circle of friends. The problem here is the same as when Henri de Catt later reports him fuming against unnamed evil flatterers turning AW against him - why not call a spade a spade and say who? Also, if we go by those friends who were actually around AW till (nearly, since he self isolated in his last weeks) the end, other than family members and servants, these would be basically Isaac de Forcade (later appointed by Fritz as Hofmarschall to future FW2 after Borcke was fired, so hardly a suspect for anti-Fritzian sentiments to him) and Lehndorff (definitely someone prone to talk very complimentary to and about AW, but never encouraging him to feud with the King).
What do you think?
I was rather amused by a "the Stoics are tyrants, Epicurism all the way" letter from 1748. Unfortunately, Volz doesn't include the AW letter that prompted it (and Preuss has neither of them), but the context was Fritz taking the waters and everything that went with it, so I guess AW must have said something about Fritz' abstinence or something. Fritz then feels compelled to write a whole letter on natural drives and not suppressing them - he himself totally doesn't! - and I'm still wondering to what extent he's talking about sex here, when he lists hunger, sleep, and pleasure ("when our life and nature have accumulated surplus energy") as the three drives.
Ha. I'm having trouble not to read "pleasure" as sex in this context, either. BTW, two years later, AW discusses Epicure with Maupertuis in letters and unsuprisingly is pro Epicure, too. Maupertuis specifically points out that there are pleasures other than sex and argues that the enjoyment when listening to beautiful music, or reading books, or having interesting conversations may not be as strong as the one you have during sex with a lover, but on the plus side it doesn't weaken the body or distract the soul from duty, so these pleasures are preferable, Monseigneur. As to whether AW in 1750 instinctively defining pleasure as sexual pleasure until this is pointed out to him by Maupertuis supports or argues against Fritz using the term in the same sense - I could see it either way.
Something that occurred to me re: Pompadour!Fritz - how much trouble would he have with the French court etiquette?
Good question. Now I'm pretty sure SD would have insisted all her children being familiar with every fine point of court etiquette, especially her fave Fritz (whom she hoped would govern Hannover with an English princess at his side, after all), FW's opinion on this be damned. And those court etiquette lessons from the 1720s would have been modelled on Louis XIV style lVersailles, not the a bit more relaxed Louis XV. version. Also note that Wilhelmine is very aware on such finesses as what a chair with and without arms signifies when meeting the Empress Maria Josepha; same for two generations earlier, gread grandma Sophie when visiting Versailles. Fritz might have thought court etiquette was rubbish, but I have no doubt he was taught the necessary lessons as a boy.
Otoh: those early lessons were tailored for him as a prince of Prussia. Madame de Pompadour has a unique position not covered in these lessons (no Maitresse en titre at the Prussian court!), and in any case even with good spy reports, Fritz would not know how she interacts with Louis when no one else is present. (He'd know how she interacts with him and other members of the royal family in public, of course, including that she was the first royal mistress to make a point of befriending and being attentive to the Queen.) The smart thing would be to be polite to everyone, use "Sire" when talking to Louis and pick up your cues for future interaction from there, but would Fritz have the patience?
Wait, I just remembered: Fritz was exposed to at least one comparable example to the French court, to wit, the Saxon court under August the Strong. How good are his memories of Orzelska and how she interacted with courtiers and her father alike? (Too bad he couldn't consult her - or can he? I think she's already in Italy at this point.)
By the way, do we know if Heinrich ever got drunk? Or was he as careful as Fritz in that regard?
Hm, I don't recall anything specific. Lehndorff as a young man when partying with all three of the princes mentions a hangover now and then, but not when just with Heinrich, nor does he report - as far as I remember - Heinrich having one. Later, when they're older, he just mentions with disapproval that the favourites du jour - both Kaphengst and Mara are singled out for this - have unlimited access to Heinrich's kitchen and wine cellar and that Kaphengst exploits this, but this goes usually goes with "I don't understand what he sees in him, they're so different!" outbursts. And Henckel v. Donnersmark Jr. when talking about Heinrich's old age excentricities doesn't mention him getting drunk, either. (Though as far as I recall he does mention that Heinrich's pretense of having forgotten all his German and only speaking French loosened in late night meals with vivid discussions and toasting people with "und das will ich Ihnen auch noch sagen". So in all likelihood, like Fritz, he enjoyed a drink now and then, but not to the point of complete drunkenness.
But I guess it's better that Heinrich did indeed redecorate, or Fritz might not even realize what happened for a while, waking up from strange dreams about his future as king... (But where the heck is Fredersdorf and who stole his flute?)
LOL, yes.
Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.
AW, yes, that's lovely to know. Now I doubly regret I didn't stop in Ruppin last year, just drove through, but my time was limited!
I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way)
Arggh, yes, you're right. With Kaphengst, even if Fritz indulged in somehorniness curiosity, their ids would not match at all.
by the way, would the dogs notice a switch? because that could be another obstacle for whoever gets to inhabit Fritz' body
I've been wondering myself. On the one hand, the smell would not be different. (Though it would change somewhat the longer the body switcher stays, what with baths and washing now occuring more often.) Otoh, the behavior would be. I mean, for the Marquise: she had pets herself and would presumably like the dogs, but I don't think she'd allow one to stay the night in her bed room. If I'm right in my guess that the dogs and cats of Rheinsberg Heinrich mentions in his burial instructions (as to being kept away from his dead body) were the ones owned by his last boyfriend's wife, who was as big an animal lover as Fritz, though in her case more into cats than dogs, Heinrich was okay with the people around him having pets and had nothing against them but wasn't into them enough to have his own. Lehndorff also never mentions him having any favourite pets. Otoh Christian von Krockow points out that it's interesting Heinrich disliked hunting as much as Fritz did, which given that for Heinrich, not FW but Fritz was "die Schicksalsfigur, an der er sich rieb" begged the question "warum ärgerte er ihn nicht, indem er zum Nimrod wurde?" Which could be answered by Heinrich just not finding any pleasure in hunting/hurting animals. (Which was unusual for male royals of their day. Fritz and Heinrich were really the outliers there.)
Anyway, if Heinrich switches with Fritz, I think the dogs would not be neglected, exactly - especially since the day to day dogcare was done by servants in any case -, but there'd be less petting, to be sure, and as with the Marquise de Pompadour, no sleepovers. In both their cases, the greatest potential giveaway could be they wouldn't know one dog from the other at first! (Unless Heinrich has a good enough memory for dogs to know from his last visit which of them was Fritz' current fave.)
I don't think the dogs themselves would notice the switch immediately. Like I said, the smell wouldn't change, and neither Pompadour nor Heinrich would treat them badly. Plus, you know, there's a good chance Fritz' favourite dogs were the types of dogs to like anyone, as seen by the fact Nadasty's wife took to Biche at once and loved her, this when Biche was dognapped in potentially traumatic circumstances after the battle of Soor. However, Fredersdorf and any other of Fritz' immediate staff would notice the change of attitude towards the dogs (as well as the lack of flute playing). (Heinrich has an advantage over Pompadour here, of course, in that he knows how Fritz interacts with his dogs and could fake it if he figures out what happened quickly enough and thinks he'd better use this chance as much as he can.)
But my real question is if he could resist making it personal re: Fritz.
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive? :)
(If the switch takes place before the 7 Years War, it could also be: "Dear Brother, hope you enjoy being married as much as I do", with the irony being that Fritz just might find Mina - still living with Heinrich in the 1750s, let's not forget - to be better to be married to than poor EC. He did approve of her personally, after all, he liked her.)
Good question. Now I'm pretty sure SD would have insisted all her children being familiar with every fine point of court etiquette, especially her fave Fritz (whom she hoped would govern Hannover with an English princess at his side, after all), FW's opinion on this be damned. And those court etiquette lessons from the 1720s would have been modelled on Louis XIV style lVersailles, not the a bit more relaxed Louis XV. version. Also note that Wilhelmine is very aware on such finesses as what a chair with and without arms signifies when meeting the Empress Maria Josepha; same for two generations earlier, gread grandma Sophie when visiting Versailles. Fritz might have thought court etiquette was rubbish, but I have no doubt he was taught the necessary lessons as a boy.
Otoh: those early lessons were tailored for him as a prince of Prussia. Madame de Pompadour has a unique position not covered in these lessons (no Maitresse en titre at the Prussian court!), and in any case even with good spy reports, Fritz would not know how she interacts with Louis when no one else is present. (He'd know how she interacts with him and other members of the royal family in public, of course, including that she was the first royal mistress to make a point of befriending and being attentive to the Queen.) The smart thing would be to be polite to everyone, use "Sire" when talking to Louis and pick up your cues for future interaction from there, but would Fritz have the patience?
Wait, I just remembered: Fritz was exposed to at least one comparable example to the French court, to wit, the Saxon court under August the Strong. How good are his memories of Orzelska and how she interacted with courtiers and her father alike? (Too bad he couldn't consult her - or can he? I think she's already in Italy at this point.)
By the way, do we know if Heinrich ever got drunk? Or was he as careful as Fritz in that regard?
Hm, I don't recall anything specific. Lehndorff as a young man when partying with all three of the princes mentions a hangover now and then, but not when just with Heinrich, nor does he report - as far as I remember - Heinrich having one. Later, when they're older, he just mentions with disapproval that the favourites du jour - both Kaphengst and Mara are singled out for this - have unlimited access to Heinrich's kitchen and wine cellar and that Kaphengst exploits this, but this goes usually goes with "I don't understand what he sees in him, they're so different!" outbursts. And Henckel v. Donnersmark Jr. when talking about Heinrich's old age excentricities doesn't mention him getting drunk, either. (Though as far as I recall he does mention that Heinrich's pretense of having forgotten all his German and only speaking French loosened in late night meals with vivid discussions and toasting people with "und das will ich Ihnen auch noch sagen". So in all likelihood, like Fritz, he enjoyed a drink now and then, but not to the point of complete drunkenness.
But I guess it's better that Heinrich did indeed redecorate, or Fritz might not even realize what happened for a while, waking up from strange dreams about his future as king... (But where the heck is Fredersdorf and who stole his flute?)
LOL, yes.
Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.
AW, yes, that's lovely to know. Now I doubly regret I didn't stop in Ruppin last year, just drove through, but my time was limited!
I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way)
Arggh, yes, you're right. With Kaphengst, even if Fritz indulged in some
by the way, would the dogs notice a switch? because that could be another obstacle for whoever gets to inhabit Fritz' body
I've been wondering myself. On the one hand, the smell would not be different. (Though it would change somewhat the longer the body switcher stays, what with baths and washing now occuring more often.) Otoh, the behavior would be. I mean, for the Marquise: she had pets herself and would presumably like the dogs, but I don't think she'd allow one to stay the night in her bed room. If I'm right in my guess that the dogs and cats of Rheinsberg Heinrich mentions in his burial instructions (as to being kept away from his dead body) were the ones owned by his last boyfriend's wife, who was as big an animal lover as Fritz, though in her case more into cats than dogs, Heinrich was okay with the people around him having pets and had nothing against them but wasn't into them enough to have his own. Lehndorff also never mentions him having any favourite pets. Otoh Christian von Krockow points out that it's interesting Heinrich disliked hunting as much as Fritz did, which given that for Heinrich, not FW but Fritz was "die Schicksalsfigur, an der er sich rieb" begged the question "warum ärgerte er ihn nicht, indem er zum Nimrod wurde?" Which could be answered by Heinrich just not finding any pleasure in hunting/hurting animals. (Which was unusual for male royals of their day. Fritz and Heinrich were really the outliers there.)
Anyway, if Heinrich switches with Fritz, I think the dogs would not be neglected, exactly - especially since the day to day dogcare was done by servants in any case -, but there'd be less petting, to be sure, and as with the Marquise de Pompadour, no sleepovers. In both their cases, the greatest potential giveaway could be they wouldn't know one dog from the other at first! (Unless Heinrich has a good enough memory for dogs to know from his last visit which of them was Fritz' current fave.)
I don't think the dogs themselves would notice the switch immediately. Like I said, the smell wouldn't change, and neither Pompadour nor Heinrich would treat them badly. Plus, you know, there's a good chance Fritz' favourite dogs were the types of dogs to like anyone, as seen by the fact Nadasty's wife took to Biche at once and loved her, this when Biche was dognapped in potentially traumatic circumstances after the battle of Soor. However, Fredersdorf and any other of Fritz' immediate staff would notice the change of attitude towards the dogs (as well as the lack of flute playing). (Heinrich has an advantage over Pompadour here, of course, in that he knows how Fritz interacts with his dogs and could fake it if he figures out what happened quickly enough and thinks he'd better use this chance as much as he can.)
But my real question is if he could resist making it personal re: Fritz.
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive? :)
(If the switch takes place before the 7 Years War, it could also be: "Dear Brother, hope you enjoy being married as much as I do", with the irony being that Fritz just might find Mina - still living with Heinrich in the 1750s, let's not forget - to be better to be married to than poor EC. He did approve of her personally, after all, he liked her.)
I doubt it'll get anywhere productive regardless, because I don't think he'd be into the same things Heinrich was into in this particular case and the whole thing would blow up (and not in the fun way).
ahahaha I was going to say, he might be rather curious about itparticularly if this is a fic -- but I suppose you're right. Ah well.
(Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.)
Oh, that's really cool! <3
ahahaha I was going to say, he might be rather curious about it
(Apropos, I recently read that Heinrich personally intervened and saved Fritz' and Knobelsdorff's first building project, the Apollotempel in Ruppin, when the city wanted to tear it down in 1788 after a big fire the year before. I liked that detail.)
Oh, that's really cool! <3
Edited 2021-04-24 17:18 (UTC)
This is fascinating, thank you! It's so interesting to me that you see all the roots of these conflicts showing up much earlier.
One early and harmless illustration of disconnect that immediately stuck out to me was in September 1747: Fritz writes to AW from Sanssouci, in response to a letter in which AW said he'd be sad if he ended up like Moses and only got to see the beautiful vineyard and his brother from afar: I won't invite you to come here, nor will I send you fruit that you haven't picked yourself. You are old enough to do both and I told you often enough that nothing could delight me more than to see you. But I won't invite you. You will come when you want and go when you like. Brothers shouldn't be on flattery terms with each other ["nicht auf dem Komplimentierfuße stehen"]. I embrace you a thousand times.
It's on this fine line between sweet/playful and impatient/admonishing and where the relationship goes from there is quite open at that point, but turns into tragedy ten years later.
*nods* It could so easily have gone another way... but it didn't.
One early and harmless illustration of disconnect that immediately stuck out to me was in September 1747: Fritz writes to AW from Sanssouci, in response to a letter in which AW said he'd be sad if he ended up like Moses and only got to see the beautiful vineyard and his brother from afar: I won't invite you to come here, nor will I send you fruit that you haven't picked yourself. You are old enough to do both and I told you often enough that nothing could delight me more than to see you. But I won't invite you. You will come when you want and go when you like. Brothers shouldn't be on flattery terms with each other ["nicht auf dem Komplimentierfuße stehen"]. I embrace you a thousand times.
It's on this fine line between sweet/playful and impatient/admonishing and where the relationship goes from there is quite open at that point, but turns into tragedy ten years later.
*nods* It could so easily have gone another way... but it didn't.
I think part of the inherent tragedy is also that Fritz, as sovereign, has taken over the father role for his siblings in addition to the older brother role. Because mutual fraternal ribbing is possible and enjoyable in their society, but you can't tease Dad The King back (unless you're Charlotte), not in their family, at least.
Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. (Sibling ribbing in my family: OK. Parental ribbing: never. I was super shocked when I met D's parents and not only did they tease him, he teased them right back! WHAT)
Even Fritz' accusation of only listening to flattery/the wrong people shows up way earlier and when AW wants him to name names, Fritz only answers with "I see you want to involve me in a drawn-out argument, not happening, I'm done".
Now this is fascinating, and I can't make up my mind on various possibilities, such as:
My thought on this is mostly (1), with some (3) mixed in subconsciously. I think, as you say, he would have been more than happy to name Heinrich and/or his circle of friends if that's what he meant :)
Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. (Sibling ribbing in my family: OK. Parental ribbing: never. I was super shocked when I met D's parents and not only did they tease him, he teased them right back! WHAT)
Even Fritz' accusation of only listening to flattery/the wrong people shows up way earlier and when AW wants him to name names, Fritz only answers with "I see you want to involve me in a drawn-out argument, not happening, I'm done".
Now this is fascinating, and I can't make up my mind on various possibilities, such as:
My thought on this is mostly (1), with some (3) mixed in subconsciously. I think, as you say, he would have been more than happy to name Heinrich and/or his circle of friends if that's what he meant :)
Right, we have proof that at least Wilhelmine was very aware, I forgot.
Oh, but ... would Wilhelmine get more or less suspicious letters from France all of a sudden?
would Fritz have the patience?
Depends on how precarious he judges his position to be, so he might quickly decide to have some after falling on his nose for the first time! (Maybe a bit darker than intended, but I think he had to - and did - learn patience the hard way during the 1730s with FW. Although I might only be saying this because "I'm collecting stores of patience in advance" was one thing he wrote to AW before coming to Berlin during FW's worst days.)
begged the question "warum ärgerte er ihn nicht, indem er zum Nimrod wurde?" Which could be answered by Heinrich just not finding any pleasure in hunting/hurting animals.
This, yes, but also, the brothers already had their Nimrod (he's even called that occasionally between Fritz and AW) and since he clearly had the steadiest friendship with Fritz (:PPP), I don't know why Heinrich would have chosen it as a thing to annoy Fritz with, having proof that it wouldn't work anyway right in front of him.
I don't think the dogs themselves would notice the switch immediately. Like I said, the smell wouldn't change, and neither Pompadour nor Heinrich would treat them badly.
I'm not a dog person, so I really don't know, but cadence and manner of speech might play a role as well? And then there's the thing where in fanfic terms, we'd have to decide how exactly the switch works and if there's some kind of soul to be switched (could get complicated - or philosophically interesting! - for Fritz for entirely different reasons) and if that's something the dogs would be able to sense after all.
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive?
Basically. Although the marriage part would, for the reasons you mention, just convince him that he was totally right that Heinrich had it better.
Oh, but ... would Wilhelmine get more or less suspicious letters from France all of a sudden?
would Fritz have the patience?
Depends on how precarious he judges his position to be, so he might quickly decide to have some after falling on his nose for the first time! (Maybe a bit darker than intended, but I think he had to - and did - learn patience the hard way during the 1730s with FW. Although I might only be saying this because "I'm collecting stores of patience in advance" was one thing he wrote to AW before coming to Berlin during FW's worst days.)
begged the question "warum ärgerte er ihn nicht, indem er zum Nimrod wurde?" Which could be answered by Heinrich just not finding any pleasure in hunting/hurting animals.
This, yes, but also, the brothers already had their Nimrod (he's even called that occasionally between Fritz and AW) and since he clearly had the steadiest friendship with Fritz (:PPP), I don't know why Heinrich would have chosen it as a thing to annoy Fritz with, having proof that it wouldn't work anyway right in front of him.
I don't think the dogs themselves would notice the switch immediately. Like I said, the smell wouldn't change, and neither Pompadour nor Heinrich would treat them badly.
I'm not a dog person, so I really don't know, but cadence and manner of speech might play a role as well? And then there's the thing where in fanfic terms, we'd have to decide how exactly the switch works and if there's some kind of soul to be switched (could get complicated - or philosophically interesting! - for Fritz for entirely different reasons) and if that's something the dogs would be able to sense after all.
You mean, when does the letter "Dear brother, hope you remember it's time for the annual spring parade soon, I do expect you to salute me properly" arrive?
Basically. Although the marriage part would, for the reasons you mention, just convince him that he was totally right that Heinrich had it better.
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