Entry tags:
Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 27
Still going! :D
starts between Silesian Wars, she says, when otoh AW is made Prince of Prussia (and hence officially designated as heir), but so far out of the loop for anything military and political that he has no idea Fritz will start the second Silesian War a week before it happens
Interesting. I was wondering when exactly this started, because you only see the occasional flare-up in the letters, not a clear point of change. But now that you've said it ... I initially read AW's "when can I go to war? now? how about now?" letters in 1744/45 as very similar to how Fritz wrote to FW in 1735, at the exact same age (except that he was hoping to get away from his father, whereas AW wants to join Fritz), but looking at them again, I see that "I feel useless" shows up already. Also "ambition, preached to us from childhood on", which is rather telling, and "I'd be inconsolable if you thought me useful only for having children", which is rather sad.
Fritz' first reply in 1744 is "you should trust me, it's not the first time you do me injustice this way [!], but since it's not winter, come join me if you want" and then in 1745, he says that there isn't anything going on yet and nothing to do, so wait a while, and also, there are infectious diseases going around and he doesn't want to risk AW's "precious life" unnecessarily, what with him being the heir and all. (And by the way, AW to Mina in 1757: "As you know, the thing I always feared the most was to have one of my brothers with me; at least it doesn't seem like there's going to be a battle.")
Ziebura says Fritz continued his campaign to get AW reading and to encourage him to self educate well into his kingship through their correspondence, and that AW responds positively
Yeah, there a quite a few letters to that effect and they do occasionally talk about what AW read and even send each other books. Fritz also mentions AW's position as his heir a lot, not just when it comes to procreation - it comes up in the context of studying and accompanying him on trips and getting a look at how things worked as well. Case in point, February 1750, AW reports that he's visited the mint because there's been a coinage reform and Fritz answers: I see you are submerged in finance. It's very well that you educate yourself and learn about everything that's happening. You would delight me if you concerned yourself with it even more, because a prince of our house who will one day reign, should not be new to these things. He has to know about everything, to be able to deal with everything himself. Everything you learn now will shorten your way later. Whatever I get done, there'll be much good to do after my death, and if you know the state affairs and their inner relations, you can earn much glory. [etc, being useful and hard-working is good, etc]
So, just from the letters, I didn't get the impression that he deliberately kept AW away from everything, but letters and actions can of course differ and Fritz' paranoia was still a thing. And of course, studying is different from actually being in the loop and getting to act and I can see how Fritz might not have gone for the latter. Still, I'm wondering if some of this was another case of mismatched expectations.
Ziebura also analyses the memoranda AW wrote after the second Silesian War with "What I'd do were I in charge of Prussia" ideas.
Huh. Any great ideas?
Whereas Fritz probably thought he was doing young AW a favor when not shoving responsibilities on him and letting him enjoy his youth a bit longer
Possibly. There are a couple "you are young, enjoy it" lines (as opposed Fritz himself, old and decrepit :P - although, to be fair, the 1747 stroke reverberated for a while).
(By the way, does Ziebura mention a kerfuffle (somebody being indiscreet with information?) happening in late 1742, early 1743? The two letters dealing with this are quite cryptic and Volz says he couldn't determine what they were about.)
I think part of the inherent tragedy is also that Fritz, as sovereign, has taken over the father role for his siblings in addition to the older brother role. Because mutual fraternal ribbing is possible and enjoyable in their society, but you can't tease Dad The King back
Yeah, that makes sense. And I think Fritz was torn here as well - demanding freedom to act as souvereign and trying to educate his brothers for example (not to mention his "I know no family in military matters"), but also wanting an easy and fraternal relationship with them, and AW in particular, which he didn't get. I believe that he saw what AW and Heinrich (and even Ferdinand) had with each other and was somewhat envious there - yes, he did have a similiarly close relationship with Wilhelmine, but she was far away and she wasn't a brother - and he might have felt like AW chose Heinrich over him as the person to be close to.
The possibilities for Fritz not naming names: Volz believes it's #2, i.e. he's talking about Heinrich, and I agree that it's most likely in this case, because it's only a couple months after the Heinrich argument, Fritz already alluded to said argument to explain why he thinks AW is still a bit resentful, and he might be thinking that AW should have gotten the hint as to who he was talking about, so he isn't going to spell it out again and provoke yet another argument. And he did end the earlier one with "you took Heinrich's side, so I'm not going to say anything else" as well, similarly shutting things down.
FWIW, he never mentions any other friends of AW's, as far as I recall, so if he did have someone else in mind, I haven't got the first idea who. Also, if Volz didn't cut it, King Fritz - unlike Crown Prince Fritz - does not talk negatively about FW. AW is the only one who does, once, during the Heinrich argument, when he goes for the compare-and-contrast.
As for the trope, that is a possibility of course, but I still think it's mostly Heinrich he's talking about.
Also, on that topic, AW is actually the first to invoke it (at least in writing), again during the Heinrich argument, where, unsurprisingly, "maybe some scheming people biased you against Heinrich, please remember how this happened to you with FW" does not have the desired results.
I expect Fritz and AW would not have been rooting for Uncle George.
I expect so as well, not least because Fritz for one listed "G2 treated FW with contempt" as one of his reasons for starting the First Silesian War in his History of My Time. He even expands on that and says that Uncle George called FW "Brother Corporal" and a "King of Country Roads and the Empire's Arch-Sand-Distributor". I'm really wondering where he got that from.
Biche - I totally forgot to mention that her Austria adventure gets a shout-out! AW writes that Fritz might have to admonish their Mecklenburg neighbours for their behaviour re: recruits, Fritz answers that vague admonishments won't do much, he needs dates and facts, like so: But if you say: "Your partisan Nadasdy stole my English wippet called Biche on September 30th, 1745, while my servant Klaus was taking care of her", Nadasdy has to deny he has her, or give her back. :D (AW's reply has ellipses, so I sadly have no idea if he commented on this choice of example, but I for one was delighted that this is what came to mind. Wait, when did Biche die? ... December 1751, and this is April 1752. Aw.)
I'm having trouble not to read "pleasure" as sex in this context, either.
Quite. And I think he'd see reading and music as culture, not nature.
whether AW in 1750 instinctively defining pleasure as sexual pleasure until this is pointed out to him by Maupertuis supports or argues against Fritz using the term in the same sense - I could see it either way
Yeah. Either way, AW is quite happy to be living under Fritz' rule for a change, see his take on the Austrian court a couple months later: Suppers aren't fashionable and games take up the time for conversation. One has to live as chaste as a hermit to be well regarded at court. This has to be a sad and depressing life. Epicurus's pupils are treated there like the Jews in Spain; the only thing that's missing is the stake, but the inquisition is already there. I thank God, dear brother, that he gave you different views. You make your subjects happy - you enjoy the delights of life and you allow us to do the same!
Volz then quite predictably edits Fritz' reply, boo.
Interesting. I was wondering when exactly this started, because you only see the occasional flare-up in the letters, not a clear point of change. But now that you've said it ... I initially read AW's "when can I go to war? now? how about now?" letters in 1744/45 as very similar to how Fritz wrote to FW in 1735, at the exact same age (except that he was hoping to get away from his father, whereas AW wants to join Fritz), but looking at them again, I see that "I feel useless" shows up already. Also "ambition, preached to us from childhood on", which is rather telling, and "I'd be inconsolable if you thought me useful only for having children", which is rather sad.
Fritz' first reply in 1744 is "you should trust me, it's not the first time you do me injustice this way [!], but since it's not winter, come join me if you want" and then in 1745, he says that there isn't anything going on yet and nothing to do, so wait a while, and also, there are infectious diseases going around and he doesn't want to risk AW's "precious life" unnecessarily, what with him being the heir and all. (And by the way, AW to Mina in 1757: "As you know, the thing I always feared the most was to have one of my brothers with me; at least it doesn't seem like there's going to be a battle.")
Ziebura says Fritz continued his campaign to get AW reading and to encourage him to self educate well into his kingship through their correspondence, and that AW responds positively
Yeah, there a quite a few letters to that effect and they do occasionally talk about what AW read and even send each other books. Fritz also mentions AW's position as his heir a lot, not just when it comes to procreation - it comes up in the context of studying and accompanying him on trips and getting a look at how things worked as well. Case in point, February 1750, AW reports that he's visited the mint because there's been a coinage reform and Fritz answers: I see you are submerged in finance. It's very well that you educate yourself and learn about everything that's happening. You would delight me if you concerned yourself with it even more, because a prince of our house who will one day reign, should not be new to these things. He has to know about everything, to be able to deal with everything himself. Everything you learn now will shorten your way later. Whatever I get done, there'll be much good to do after my death, and if you know the state affairs and their inner relations, you can earn much glory. [etc, being useful and hard-working is good, etc]
So, just from the letters, I didn't get the impression that he deliberately kept AW away from everything, but letters and actions can of course differ and Fritz' paranoia was still a thing. And of course, studying is different from actually being in the loop and getting to act and I can see how Fritz might not have gone for the latter. Still, I'm wondering if some of this was another case of mismatched expectations.
Ziebura also analyses the memoranda AW wrote after the second Silesian War with "What I'd do were I in charge of Prussia" ideas.
Huh. Any great ideas?
Whereas Fritz probably thought he was doing young AW a favor when not shoving responsibilities on him and letting him enjoy his youth a bit longer
Possibly. There are a couple "you are young, enjoy it" lines (as opposed Fritz himself, old and decrepit :P - although, to be fair, the 1747 stroke reverberated for a while).
(By the way, does Ziebura mention a kerfuffle (somebody being indiscreet with information?) happening in late 1742, early 1743? The two letters dealing with this are quite cryptic and Volz says he couldn't determine what they were about.)
I think part of the inherent tragedy is also that Fritz, as sovereign, has taken over the father role for his siblings in addition to the older brother role. Because mutual fraternal ribbing is possible and enjoyable in their society, but you can't tease Dad The King back
Yeah, that makes sense. And I think Fritz was torn here as well - demanding freedom to act as souvereign and trying to educate his brothers for example (not to mention his "I know no family in military matters"), but also wanting an easy and fraternal relationship with them, and AW in particular, which he didn't get. I believe that he saw what AW and Heinrich (and even Ferdinand) had with each other and was somewhat envious there - yes, he did have a similiarly close relationship with Wilhelmine, but she was far away and she wasn't a brother - and he might have felt like AW chose Heinrich over him as the person to be close to.
The possibilities for Fritz not naming names: Volz believes it's #2, i.e. he's talking about Heinrich, and I agree that it's most likely in this case, because it's only a couple months after the Heinrich argument, Fritz already alluded to said argument to explain why he thinks AW is still a bit resentful, and he might be thinking that AW should have gotten the hint as to who he was talking about, so he isn't going to spell it out again and provoke yet another argument. And he did end the earlier one with "you took Heinrich's side, so I'm not going to say anything else" as well, similarly shutting things down.
FWIW, he never mentions any other friends of AW's, as far as I recall, so if he did have someone else in mind, I haven't got the first idea who. Also, if Volz didn't cut it, King Fritz - unlike Crown Prince Fritz - does not talk negatively about FW. AW is the only one who does, once, during the Heinrich argument, when he goes for the compare-and-contrast.
As for the trope, that is a possibility of course, but I still think it's mostly Heinrich he's talking about.
Also, on that topic, AW is actually the first to invoke it (at least in writing), again during the Heinrich argument, where, unsurprisingly, "maybe some scheming people biased you against Heinrich, please remember how this happened to you with FW" does not have the desired results.
I expect Fritz and AW would not have been rooting for Uncle George.
I expect so as well, not least because Fritz for one listed "G2 treated FW with contempt" as one of his reasons for starting the First Silesian War in his History of My Time. He even expands on that and says that Uncle George called FW "Brother Corporal" and a "King of Country Roads and the Empire's Arch-Sand-Distributor". I'm really wondering where he got that from.
Biche - I totally forgot to mention that her Austria adventure gets a shout-out! AW writes that Fritz might have to admonish their Mecklenburg neighbours for their behaviour re: recruits, Fritz answers that vague admonishments won't do much, he needs dates and facts, like so: But if you say: "Your partisan Nadasdy stole my English wippet called Biche on September 30th, 1745, while my servant Klaus was taking care of her", Nadasdy has to deny he has her, or give her back. :D (AW's reply has ellipses, so I sadly have no idea if he commented on this choice of example, but I for one was delighted that this is what came to mind. Wait, when did Biche die? ... December 1751, and this is April 1752. Aw.)
I'm having trouble not to read "pleasure" as sex in this context, either.
Quite. And I think he'd see reading and music as culture, not nature.
whether AW in 1750 instinctively defining pleasure as sexual pleasure until this is pointed out to him by Maupertuis supports or argues against Fritz using the term in the same sense - I could see it either way
Yeah. Either way, AW is quite happy to be living under Fritz' rule for a change, see his take on the Austrian court a couple months later: Suppers aren't fashionable and games take up the time for conversation. One has to live as chaste as a hermit to be well regarded at court. This has to be a sad and depressing life. Epicurus's pupils are treated there like the Jews in Spain; the only thing that's missing is the stake, but the inquisition is already there. I thank God, dear brother, that he gave you different views. You make your subjects happy - you enjoy the delights of life and you allow us to do the same!
Volz then quite predictably edits Fritz' reply, boo.
. And of course, studying is different from actually being in the loop and getting to act and I can see how Fritz might not have gone for the latter. Still, I'm wondering if some of this was another case of mismatched expectations.
Probably. In essence, AW hoped to be a post-Mondale Vice President, while Fritz was fine with him being a pre-Mondale style Vice President (i.e. not doing anything but cutting ribbons - and in Prussia's case, drilling regiments - in terms of active politics). Given that Fritz also treated FW2 this way, with the result that FW2 was entirely dependent on his advisors when starting his reign. To be fair, this is hardly a Fritz or Hohenzollern- only phenomenon, this inability of a man of power to actually delegate some power to his likely successor so that the sucessor can train. Men (and women) of power were more likely to squash any potential successors than not (see also: Bismarck creating a system that depended on him, or someone like him, keeping the balances, while simultanously not allow any able future potential chancellors to rise, with the result that we got Willy taking over). It's much harder to think of powerful people able to confront their mortality in time to look out and train successors, with the one example of such a great exception I can think of being Richelieu, whose instinct and ambition and hunger for power were certainly not lesser than Fritz' (and Bismarck's, etc.), but who was thoughtful enough to spot young Giulio Mazarini as someone with potential, bring him to France, train him, with the result that when he died, he could ask Louis XIII to appoint Mazarin as PM in his place, thus ensuring a smooth transition of power.
(Fritz to Heinrich, in the 1780s: Richelieu was THE WORST! Stop calling him a great man!)
(By the way, does Ziebura mention a kerfuffle (somebody being indiscreet with information?) happening in late 1742, early 1743?
No. I just checked, and late 1742 is covered by AW getting appointed as Commander of the Spandau-stationed regiment Derschau at the end of November and getting gifted Oranienburg in December.
Huh. Any great ideas?
AW adresses four major subsections: 1. Von der Verwaltung des Staates und der Finanzen .
2. Von der Religion .
3. Über den Hof.
4. Von dem Theater und den Vergnügungen .
The first one includes a reordering of the departments of the general directory responsible for state administration, which consists of four at this point; AW thinks it should be five, with newly acquired Silesia getting an extra one. (Fritz just gave it special status, so it wasn't administred by the general directory.) The ministers of the indidividual departments should be given more responsibility (delegate, Fritz! Delegate! will be a theme of Heinrich's later reform suggestions as well), and while they clearly should be punished severely if they enrich themselves at their province's expense, AW thinks the general salary for the civil servants should be raised to prevent temptation, as it's currently quite miserly. also, ministers in general should be like Louis XIV's minister Colbert, travelling through the provinces and reporting to the King in great detail all the time.
AW also wants to limit the King's authority over trade. Instead, there should be a separate ministry and department for trade, consisting of a "Collegium" with two representatives chosen by the merchants' guilds from each of big Prussian cities plus one chosen representative for the Jews living in Prussia (!) who should each have a seat and a vote, and should supervise the taxing of foreign goods when imported, and prohibit the exploitaton of monopolies.
Finally, AW thinks that if the King insists on leading his armies himself, then he should appoint a prince of the royal family as regent to govern in his absence in war time. HINT. HINT.
The subsection "Religion" is also interesting because it shows that AW in the mid 1740s is still influenced by Dad in this regard more than by Fritz, in that he thinks that since the King is head and protector of the Protestant faith in Prussia, he should attend church services regularly and present a good example to the faithful. Also, while Catholics should be allowed to live in Prussia, they do need special supervision because that faith just is Up To No Good.
Subsection "Court", otoh, shows AW unlike Fritz thinks the Queen Regnant (i.e. EC, or in AW's case Louise) should be given a greater budget than the Queen Mother and given preference to her in general, not the other way around. Since AW was not in love with his wife, this is all the more interesting. (It's also one of the very few hints he might have had a bit of a critical opinion of SD at times. Otherwise, like the rest of his brothers, he goes out of his way to make her happy, see also her visit to Oranienburg, the description of which by Pöllnitz Fontane quotes in his "Wanderungen".) AW also thoughtfully allows for the existence of a Maitresse en titre but thinks she, too, should in no way be treated in preference ot the Queen (let alone be given a greater budget.) Also younger sibs Amalie and Heinrich should be given a greater budget each, Fritz. Oh, and no exclusively male court events (like, say, at Sanssouci. Or for that matter the Tobacco Parliament, Dad.) Female courtiers are essential to keep the tone and company refined intead of barack-like.) (BTW, note that Heinrich, despite loathing marriage no less than Fritz and being just as gay, agrees. His little court at Rheinsberg will always include women as well, not just the wives of his boyfriends, either.)
And I think Fritz was torn here as well - demanding freedom to act as souvereign and trying to educate his brothers for example (not to mention his "I know no family in military matters"), but also wanting an easy and fraternal relationship with them, and AW in particular, which he didn't get. I believe that he saw what AW and Heinrich (and even Ferdinand) had with each other and was somewhat envious there - yes, he did have a similiarly close relationship with Wilhelmine, but she was far away and she wasn't a brother - and he might have felt like AW chose Heinrich over him as the person to be close to.
Agreed. (And when I read that teenage Heinrich gets his marching orders before AW does in the Silesian War my own suspicion was that Fritz was trying to play a little divide and rule there, which didn't work if that's what he intended, i.e. instead of resenting Heinrich for being called to join earlier, AW just saw it as judgment on himself.) I think when Fritz started to approach AW in the 1730s, it was from a variety of motives - Grumbkow had explicitly told him the King would like it if he made some efforts with his brothers instead of being just close to Wilhelmine, whom he on the contrary needed some boundaries with; he needed an ally at court and AW was already the family go to person if one wanted something from Dad; having a good relationship with AW might prevent AW being used as a rival successor; but also, he had lived with a close sibling relationship all his life, and he was lonely without one. But the odds were working against him there. I mean, from the quotes I've seen of the 1730s young AW letters, he thought Fritz was the coolest and was happy to help him out. But they didn't see each other that often, and Heinrich was the one AW was actually living with (ditto little Ferdinand, of course), and as Fritz himself would later write re: himself and Wihelmine in those 1758 letters to Heinrich, there's no bond like that of siblings who were raised together. Once Fritz was actually King, the power differential worked as an additional impediment to having a normal fraternal relationship.
In a way, Fritz concluding that AW chooses Heinrich over him and resenting this also echoes FW's idea that his oldest should be closest to him and massive disappointment and resentment when the kid is closer to Mom and Wilhelmine (and, well, everyone showing him affection instead of yelling) instead - I mean, it's hard to see in either case how else it could have gone (unless the prince in question would have been an opportunist craving closeness only to the most powerful person around) given the circumstances, on some level they must have known that, and yet.
, not least because Fritz for one listed "G2 treated FW with contempt" as one of his reasons for starting the First Silesian War in his History of My Time. He even expands on that and says that Uncle George called FW "Brother Corporal" and a "King of Country Roads and the Empire's Arch-Sand-Distributor". I'm really wondering where he got that from.
At a guess, FW himself? BTW, FW, no slouch in the insult department, as far as I know returned the favor by referring to G2 as his brother the Petit-Maitre. It's interesting that Hervey, who devotes several paragraphs in his memoirs to G2's loathing for FW, does not include any of these specific insults, though. Their almost duel in 1729 gets blamed on both of them being as bad as each other instead, and on a later occasion, to wit, Philipsburg, we get this gem:
The King's love for armies, his contempt for civil affairs, and the great capacity he thought he possessed for military exploits, inclined him still with greater violence to be meddling, and warped him yet more to the side of war. He used almost daily and hourly, during the beginning of this summer, to be telling Sir Robert Walpole with what eagerness he glowed to pull the laurels from the brows of the French generals, to bind his own temples ; that it was with the sword alone he desired to keep the balance of Europe, that war and action were his sole pleasures ; that age was coming fast upon him ; and that, if he lost the opportunity of this bustle, no other occasion possibly might offer in which he should be able to distinguish himself, or gather those glories which were now ready at his hand. He could not bear, he said, the thought of growing old in peace, and rusting in the cabinet, whilst other princes were busied in war and shining in the field; but what provoked him most of all, he confessed, was to reflect that, whilst he was only busied in treaties, letters, and despatches, his booby brother, the brutal and cowardly King of Prussia, should pass his time in camps, and in the midst of armies, neither desirous of the glory nor fit for the employment; whilst he, who coveted the one and was trained for the other, was, for cold prudential reasons, debarred the pleasure of indulging his inclination, and deprived of the advantage of showing his abilities.
So what Hervey recalls G2 calling FW is a coward, cruel and an idiot, which is both worse and different than "Brother Corporal" and the sandbox of the realm slight Fritz lists, which I find interesting. Now of course it's possible G2 used the milder insults in public (and thus they got reported to FW and after him Fritz via spies) while using the worse insults to interactions with Sir Robert Walpole, his PM, and thus Team Prussia never found out about them. (Walpole telling his ally Hervey but not others.) But it's also possible Fritz himself chose to be discreet in the Histoire.
Biche - I totally forgot to mention that her Austria adventure gets a shout-out!
Awww. You know, "The Adventures of Biche" would actually make a good topic for a children's book, and I'm surprised no one has written one yet, especially in the Fritz adoring 19th and early 20th century. (Or mabe they did, and we just don't know it yet.) This quote is also great because it tells us which servant was in charge of her during the Soor raid.
Of course, now I also can't help recalling that Fritz' (and Heinrich's) laundry was stolen on that occasion as well, hence AW writing to Ferdinand that "the King and Heinrich are wearing my shirts". :)
Probably. In essence, AW hoped to be a post-Mondale Vice President, while Fritz was fine with him being a pre-Mondale style Vice President (i.e. not doing anything but cutting ribbons - and in Prussia's case, drilling regiments - in terms of active politics). Given that Fritz also treated FW2 this way, with the result that FW2 was entirely dependent on his advisors when starting his reign. To be fair, this is hardly a Fritz or Hohenzollern- only phenomenon, this inability of a man of power to actually delegate some power to his likely successor so that the sucessor can train. Men (and women) of power were more likely to squash any potential successors than not (see also: Bismarck creating a system that depended on him, or someone like him, keeping the balances, while simultanously not allow any able future potential chancellors to rise, with the result that we got Willy taking over). It's much harder to think of powerful people able to confront their mortality in time to look out and train successors, with the one example of such a great exception I can think of being Richelieu, whose instinct and ambition and hunger for power were certainly not lesser than Fritz' (and Bismarck's, etc.), but who was thoughtful enough to spot young Giulio Mazarini as someone with potential, bring him to France, train him, with the result that when he died, he could ask Louis XIII to appoint Mazarin as PM in his place, thus ensuring a smooth transition of power.
(Fritz to Heinrich, in the 1780s: Richelieu was THE WORST! Stop calling him a great man!)
(By the way, does Ziebura mention a kerfuffle (somebody being indiscreet with information?) happening in late 1742, early 1743?
No. I just checked, and late 1742 is covered by AW getting appointed as Commander of the Spandau-stationed regiment Derschau at the end of November and getting gifted Oranienburg in December.
Huh. Any great ideas?
AW adresses four major subsections: 1. Von der Verwaltung des Staates und der Finanzen .
2. Von der Religion .
3. Über den Hof.
4. Von dem Theater und den Vergnügungen .
The first one includes a reordering of the departments of the general directory responsible for state administration, which consists of four at this point; AW thinks it should be five, with newly acquired Silesia getting an extra one. (Fritz just gave it special status, so it wasn't administred by the general directory.) The ministers of the indidividual departments should be given more responsibility (delegate, Fritz! Delegate! will be a theme of Heinrich's later reform suggestions as well), and while they clearly should be punished severely if they enrich themselves at their province's expense, AW thinks the general salary for the civil servants should be raised to prevent temptation, as it's currently quite miserly. also, ministers in general should be like Louis XIV's minister Colbert, travelling through the provinces and reporting to the King in great detail all the time.
AW also wants to limit the King's authority over trade. Instead, there should be a separate ministry and department for trade, consisting of a "Collegium" with two representatives chosen by the merchants' guilds from each of big Prussian cities plus one chosen representative for the Jews living in Prussia (!) who should each have a seat and a vote, and should supervise the taxing of foreign goods when imported, and prohibit the exploitaton of monopolies.
Finally, AW thinks that if the King insists on leading his armies himself, then he should appoint a prince of the royal family as regent to govern in his absence in war time. HINT. HINT.
The subsection "Religion" is also interesting because it shows that AW in the mid 1740s is still influenced by Dad in this regard more than by Fritz, in that he thinks that since the King is head and protector of the Protestant faith in Prussia, he should attend church services regularly and present a good example to the faithful. Also, while Catholics should be allowed to live in Prussia, they do need special supervision because that faith just is Up To No Good.
Subsection "Court", otoh, shows AW unlike Fritz thinks the Queen Regnant (i.e. EC, or in AW's case Louise) should be given a greater budget than the Queen Mother and given preference to her in general, not the other way around. Since AW was not in love with his wife, this is all the more interesting. (It's also one of the very few hints he might have had a bit of a critical opinion of SD at times. Otherwise, like the rest of his brothers, he goes out of his way to make her happy, see also her visit to Oranienburg, the description of which by Pöllnitz Fontane quotes in his "Wanderungen".) AW also thoughtfully allows for the existence of a Maitresse en titre but thinks she, too, should in no way be treated in preference ot the Queen (let alone be given a greater budget.) Also younger sibs Amalie and Heinrich should be given a greater budget each, Fritz. Oh, and no exclusively male court events (like, say, at Sanssouci. Or for that matter the Tobacco Parliament, Dad.) Female courtiers are essential to keep the tone and company refined intead of barack-like.) (BTW, note that Heinrich, despite loathing marriage no less than Fritz and being just as gay, agrees. His little court at Rheinsberg will always include women as well, not just the wives of his boyfriends, either.)
And I think Fritz was torn here as well - demanding freedom to act as souvereign and trying to educate his brothers for example (not to mention his "I know no family in military matters"), but also wanting an easy and fraternal relationship with them, and AW in particular, which he didn't get. I believe that he saw what AW and Heinrich (and even Ferdinand) had with each other and was somewhat envious there - yes, he did have a similiarly close relationship with Wilhelmine, but she was far away and she wasn't a brother - and he might have felt like AW chose Heinrich over him as the person to be close to.
Agreed. (And when I read that teenage Heinrich gets his marching orders before AW does in the Silesian War my own suspicion was that Fritz was trying to play a little divide and rule there, which didn't work if that's what he intended, i.e. instead of resenting Heinrich for being called to join earlier, AW just saw it as judgment on himself.) I think when Fritz started to approach AW in the 1730s, it was from a variety of motives - Grumbkow had explicitly told him the King would like it if he made some efforts with his brothers instead of being just close to Wilhelmine, whom he on the contrary needed some boundaries with; he needed an ally at court and AW was already the family go to person if one wanted something from Dad; having a good relationship with AW might prevent AW being used as a rival successor; but also, he had lived with a close sibling relationship all his life, and he was lonely without one. But the odds were working against him there. I mean, from the quotes I've seen of the 1730s young AW letters, he thought Fritz was the coolest and was happy to help him out. But they didn't see each other that often, and Heinrich was the one AW was actually living with (ditto little Ferdinand, of course), and as Fritz himself would later write re: himself and Wihelmine in those 1758 letters to Heinrich, there's no bond like that of siblings who were raised together. Once Fritz was actually King, the power differential worked as an additional impediment to having a normal fraternal relationship.
In a way, Fritz concluding that AW chooses Heinrich over him and resenting this also echoes FW's idea that his oldest should be closest to him and massive disappointment and resentment when the kid is closer to Mom and Wilhelmine (and, well, everyone showing him affection instead of yelling) instead - I mean, it's hard to see in either case how else it could have gone (unless the prince in question would have been an opportunist craving closeness only to the most powerful person around) given the circumstances, on some level they must have known that, and yet.
, not least because Fritz for one listed "G2 treated FW with contempt" as one of his reasons for starting the First Silesian War in his History of My Time. He even expands on that and says that Uncle George called FW "Brother Corporal" and a "King of Country Roads and the Empire's Arch-Sand-Distributor". I'm really wondering where he got that from.
At a guess, FW himself? BTW, FW, no slouch in the insult department, as far as I know returned the favor by referring to G2 as his brother the Petit-Maitre. It's interesting that Hervey, who devotes several paragraphs in his memoirs to G2's loathing for FW, does not include any of these specific insults, though. Their almost duel in 1729 gets blamed on both of them being as bad as each other instead, and on a later occasion, to wit, Philipsburg, we get this gem:
The King's love for armies, his contempt for civil affairs, and the great capacity he thought he possessed for military exploits, inclined him still with greater violence to be meddling, and warped him yet more to the side of war. He used almost daily and hourly, during the beginning of this summer, to be telling Sir Robert Walpole with what eagerness he glowed to pull the laurels from the brows of the French generals, to bind his own temples ; that it was with the sword alone he desired to keep the balance of Europe, that war and action were his sole pleasures ; that age was coming fast upon him ; and that, if he lost the opportunity of this bustle, no other occasion possibly might offer in which he should be able to distinguish himself, or gather those glories which were now ready at his hand. He could not bear, he said, the thought of growing old in peace, and rusting in the cabinet, whilst other princes were busied in war and shining in the field; but what provoked him most of all, he confessed, was to reflect that, whilst he was only busied in treaties, letters, and despatches, his booby brother, the brutal and cowardly King of Prussia, should pass his time in camps, and in the midst of armies, neither desirous of the glory nor fit for the employment; whilst he, who coveted the one and was trained for the other, was, for cold prudential reasons, debarred the pleasure of indulging his inclination, and deprived of the advantage of showing his abilities.
So what Hervey recalls G2 calling FW is a coward, cruel and an idiot, which is both worse and different than "Brother Corporal" and the sandbox of the realm slight Fritz lists, which I find interesting. Now of course it's possible G2 used the milder insults in public (and thus they got reported to FW and after him Fritz via spies) while using the worse insults to interactions with Sir Robert Walpole, his PM, and thus Team Prussia never found out about them. (Walpole telling his ally Hervey but not others.) But it's also possible Fritz himself chose to be discreet in the Histoire.
Biche - I totally forgot to mention that her Austria adventure gets a shout-out!
Awww. You know, "The Adventures of Biche" would actually make a good topic for a children's book, and I'm surprised no one has written one yet, especially in the Fritz adoring 19th and early 20th century. (Or mabe they did, and we just don't know it yet.) This quote is also great because it tells us which servant was in charge of her during the Soor raid.
Of course, now I also can't help recalling that Fritz' (and Heinrich's) laundry was stolen on that occasion as well, hence AW writing to Ferdinand that "the King and Heinrich are wearing my shirts". :)
Oh, but ... would Wilhelmine get more or less suspicious letters from France all of a sudden?
Oh, absolutely. Also, if Fritz is okay with using Wilhelmine as for attempts at backchannel diplomacy in the 7 Years War, including even an offer of bribery to the Marquise de Pompadour, she must have had French connections in addition to Voltaire. Mind you, these might have been forged rather recently during her months in France during her big journey.
Letters would have the big benefit of being in Fritz' handwriting, so Wilhelmine would know it was really him.
the brothers already had their Nimrod (he's even called that occasionally between Fritz and AW) and since he clearly had the steadiest friendship with Fritz (:PPP), I don't know why Heinrich would have chosen it as a thing to annoy Fritz with, having proof that it wouldn't work anyway right in front of him.
LOL. You speak truth.
if there's some kind of soul to be switched (could get complicated - or philosophically interesting! - for Fritz for entirely different reasons)
True, though I think he did believe there was a soul, just not that it was immortal. Otoh if it can be switched, there are actually long term implications possible for immortality, if you go with a horror scenario. (The villains of a Tad Williams novel have a scheme like this, I think, and also those of Dollhouse, i.e. body hopping as a way to escape death.) Mind you, I don't think Fritz would want that kind of immortality, and also would be just as likely to suspect an evil plot to oust him from power. You have a point about cadence and manner of speech, but I'm instinctively averse to dogs able to sense souls. There's an M.M. Kaye novel where a character quotes the "children and dogs always sense a good person" saying and the author is scathing about it, not least because in that case the person deemed good by the child and the dog in question is actually the villain of the story, and I must admit I sort of imprinted on that.
This said: fanfic allows the author absolute power over the rules, and if one rule is that the dog can sense the true identity of a soul, then so be it!
Something else: both Fritz and Heinrich were rationalists, so their first instinct to waking up in each other's bodies would be to assume it's a dream, possibly a fever dream if they're ill, and then the disquieting suspicion they might have gone insane. So in order to get to the fun part of a body switching tale, one would give them each an experience to assure them this is real as quickly as possible.
Oh, absolutely. Also, if Fritz is okay with using Wilhelmine as for attempts at backchannel diplomacy in the 7 Years War, including even an offer of bribery to the Marquise de Pompadour, she must have had French connections in addition to Voltaire. Mind you, these might have been forged rather recently during her months in France during her big journey.
Letters would have the big benefit of being in Fritz' handwriting, so Wilhelmine would know it was really him.
the brothers already had their Nimrod (he's even called that occasionally between Fritz and AW) and since he clearly had the steadiest friendship with Fritz (:PPP), I don't know why Heinrich would have chosen it as a thing to annoy Fritz with, having proof that it wouldn't work anyway right in front of him.
LOL. You speak truth.
if there's some kind of soul to be switched (could get complicated - or philosophically interesting! - for Fritz for entirely different reasons)
True, though I think he did believe there was a soul, just not that it was immortal. Otoh if it can be switched, there are actually long term implications possible for immortality, if you go with a horror scenario. (The villains of a Tad Williams novel have a scheme like this, I think, and also those of Dollhouse, i.e. body hopping as a way to escape death.) Mind you, I don't think Fritz would want that kind of immortality, and also would be just as likely to suspect an evil plot to oust him from power. You have a point about cadence and manner of speech, but I'm instinctively averse to dogs able to sense souls. There's an M.M. Kaye novel where a character quotes the "children and dogs always sense a good person" saying and the author is scathing about it, not least because in that case the person deemed good by the child and the dog in question is actually the villain of the story, and I must admit I sort of imprinted on that.
This said: fanfic allows the author absolute power over the rules, and if one rule is that the dog can sense the true identity of a soul, then so be it!
Something else: both Fritz and Heinrich were rationalists, so their first instinct to waking up in each other's bodies would be to assume it's a dream, possibly a fever dream if they're ill, and then the disquieting suspicion they might have gone insane. So in order to get to the fun part of a body switching tale, one would give them each an experience to assure them this is real as quickly as possible.
to confront their mortality in time
I feel like this particular bit wasn't Fritz' problem exactly.
No. I just checked, and late 1742 is covered by AW getting appointed as Commander of the Spandau-stationed regiment Derschau at the end of November and getting gifted Oranienburg in December.
Okay. Hm. Fritz at the end of January '43: I wish I could be useful to you. [Now there's a turn-around, that's usually AW's line.] I'm not as vengeful as you think and know to distinguish indiscretion from malice. The only consequence is that one has to beware of people who can't keep their mouth shut and only tell them things everybody already knows. But let's not talk about the past anymore. And then the next letter from May: It was natural that given my honest love for you, I suffered some displeasure this winter, which came from a direction I least expected. But I assure you, everything is forgotten, and you shall never notice any resentment from me towards you as long as you live. Feel free to come here whenever you want.
Which kind of sounds to me like someone in AW's circle (I hope not AW himself) might have talked about things they shouldn't have? AW's letters seem to be lost, since Volz doesn't know more either, but I wanted to put it out there in case anyone comes across something in the future. Mysteries in letters are intriguing. (And frustrating.)
AW thinks that if the King insists on leading his armies himself, then he should appoint a prince of the royal family as regent to govern in his absence in war time. HINT. HINT.
Heee.
Also, interesting, because he was so determined to join Fritz in the previous war and not particularly impressed with the "I want to protect you as the heir, so stay in Berlin" argument, but this suggests that he'd be fine with staying at home and not earning military honours as long as he feels like he gets to do something else that's useful. I know you said before that he became rather disenchanted with the whole idea of going to war and this fits right in. (Also fits my impression from his 1756/57 Mina letters that he was very torn - maybe without being quite aware of it - because he really seemed to hate war and like he wanted to be anywhere else, but also felt like he desperately needed to gain honour and usefulness as a commander.)
"Religion" is also interesting because it shows that AW in the mid 1740s is still influenced by Dad in this regard more than by Fritz
Yeah, also an impression I got, even with Volz' explicitely editing the topic (but largely on the Fritz side I suspect). There are repeated mentions of AW attending religious events, especially around Lent/Easter, and one time where Fritz point blank tells him that AW can do what he wants, but he, Fritz, is NOT going to attend anything, thank you, because he doesn't believe and doesn't want to be a hypocrite.
You know, "The Adventures of Biche" would actually make a good topic for a children's book,
True. I like that idea!
recalling that Fritz' (and Heinrich's) laundry was stolen on that occasion as well
One reason why I want to know if AW commented on Fritz' choice of example at all. (But as we've established, he hardly would have teased him about it, which is too bad.)
I feel like this particular bit wasn't Fritz' problem exactly.
No. I just checked, and late 1742 is covered by AW getting appointed as Commander of the Spandau-stationed regiment Derschau at the end of November and getting gifted Oranienburg in December.
Okay. Hm. Fritz at the end of January '43: I wish I could be useful to you. [Now there's a turn-around, that's usually AW's line.] I'm not as vengeful as you think and know to distinguish indiscretion from malice. The only consequence is that one has to beware of people who can't keep their mouth shut and only tell them things everybody already knows. But let's not talk about the past anymore. And then the next letter from May: It was natural that given my honest love for you, I suffered some displeasure this winter, which came from a direction I least expected. But I assure you, everything is forgotten, and you shall never notice any resentment from me towards you as long as you live. Feel free to come here whenever you want.
Which kind of sounds to me like someone in AW's circle (I hope not AW himself) might have talked about things they shouldn't have? AW's letters seem to be lost, since Volz doesn't know more either, but I wanted to put it out there in case anyone comes across something in the future. Mysteries in letters are intriguing. (And frustrating.)
AW thinks that if the King insists on leading his armies himself, then he should appoint a prince of the royal family as regent to govern in his absence in war time. HINT. HINT.
Heee.
Also, interesting, because he was so determined to join Fritz in the previous war and not particularly impressed with the "I want to protect you as the heir, so stay in Berlin" argument, but this suggests that he'd be fine with staying at home and not earning military honours as long as he feels like he gets to do something else that's useful. I know you said before that he became rather disenchanted with the whole idea of going to war and this fits right in. (Also fits my impression from his 1756/57 Mina letters that he was very torn - maybe without being quite aware of it - because he really seemed to hate war and like he wanted to be anywhere else, but also felt like he desperately needed to gain honour and usefulness as a commander.)
"Religion" is also interesting because it shows that AW in the mid 1740s is still influenced by Dad in this regard more than by Fritz
Yeah, also an impression I got, even with Volz' explicitely editing the topic (but largely on the Fritz side I suspect). There are repeated mentions of AW attending religious events, especially around Lent/Easter, and one time where Fritz point blank tells him that AW can do what he wants, but he, Fritz, is NOT going to attend anything, thank you, because he doesn't believe and doesn't want to be a hypocrite.
You know, "The Adventures of Biche" would actually make a good topic for a children's book,
True. I like that idea!
recalling that Fritz' (and Heinrich's) laundry was stolen on that occasion as well
One reason why I want to know if AW commented on Fritz' choice of example at all. (But as we've established, he hardly would have teased him about it, which is too bad.)
I don't think Fritz would want that kind of immortality
Oh, me neither.
suspect an evil plot to oust him from power
Ha. I don't actually know Freaky Friday and have no idea what's the cause there, but somebody setting this in motion for political reasons sounds rather intriguing - either as a successful switch that turns out differently than expected, or as a "gone wrong" version where he's switched with a different person than intended.
Oh, me neither.
suspect an evil plot to oust him from power
Ha. I don't actually know Freaky Friday and have no idea what's the cause there, but somebody setting this in motion for political reasons sounds rather intriguing - either as a successful switch that turns out differently than expected, or as a "gone wrong" version where he's switched with a different person than intended.
These are indeed intriguing quotes, and I'm tempted to say if an expert like Volz didn't find an explanation, we won't, either, but! Considering no one before us seems to have picked up on Fritz lying to Katte about being pressed to marry an Archduchess, this does not need to be true.
Which kind of sounds to me like someone in AW's circle (I hope not AW himself) might have talked about things they shouldn't have?
Yes, that's what it sounds like to me, too. Now for some speculation about possible subjects. I don't think it can be anything political or military, since AW hadn't been told anything in this regard to begin with, and so his circle couldn't have learned something from him (deliberately or accidentally), either. What was he as of the end of 1742 in a position to know that found its way back to Fritz in the winter causing "some displeasure" but seems to have been sincerely forgiven, given that Fritz does not bring it up in later years as an example of AW wronging him?
Possibilities:
1) The aborted France/Straßburg trip. AW, who had been a member of the party, could have talked to people about it, and given that we've seen he either somewhat exaggarates or was under a mistaken impression about the (not) arrest when writing down the trip for his newborn son in 1744, he might have included this in a story told to his friends, too, who in turn talked about it to someone else. Fritz didn't exactly keep that trip secret, he described it to Voltaire and others in letters, after all, but he might not wanted it to be told in the AW version by people not belonging to his own circle? (Would also provide yet another reason why AW gets edited out years later when Fritz mentions the trip to others.
2) Anything to do with their family horror show of the FW years, possibly something that didn't sound too bad for AW but was to Fritz?
3) Considered by me but regretfully abandoned, because AW wasn't with the army in the summer of 1741 and thus would not have known: the Handsome Hussar Georgii/Frederdorf Temporarily Out of The Tent affair.
4) Possibly something to do with Fritz and EC. it's the date more than anything that makes me wonder, because 1742 is AW's first year of marriage to EC's sister. Yes, the marriage itself is a political arrangement and he'll get more distant, not closer to his wife in time, but in the first year, and before Mina or Sophie von Pannewitz (later Voss) are an issue, and with the "male heirs NOW!" pressure, he must have spent considerable time with his new wife. So maybe they talked about their siblings, and AW said something along the line that he doesn't think (as opposed to what EC still believed) this then new separation was just because of the war but that Fritz really means it to be permanent, or, well, anything, and Louise told this to EC, who was the unexpected corner from which Fritz heard it in the winter?
Also, interesting, because he was so determined to join Fritz in the previous war and not particularly impressed with the "I want to protect you as the heir, so stay in Berlin" argument, but this suggests that he'd be fine with staying at home and not earning military honours as long as he feels like he gets to do something else that's useful. I know you said before that he became rather disenchanted with the whole idea of going to war and this fits right in.
And let's not forget, the second Silesian War included the experience (for Fritz, AW and Heinrich at the same time) of nearly dying and seeing Heinrich's page getting his head torn off by a shot that could have easily killed the rest of them as well. There's a big difference between playing soldier because Dad and your entire society has raised you to believe this was the highest purpose for a man and experiencing a war this way. I think AW after the second Silesian War must have lived through an increasing disconnected with the values he was raised with, and even the slightly different ones of Fritz' Prussia (but not different in this key regard), and the increasing realisation that he didn't enjoy war and heroics. Plus there was the inescapable problem that distinguishing yourself militarily was the only option for a prince in Prussia to achieve anything. There wasn't an alternative career available.
Which kind of sounds to me like someone in AW's circle (I hope not AW himself) might have talked about things they shouldn't have?
Yes, that's what it sounds like to me, too. Now for some speculation about possible subjects. I don't think it can be anything political or military, since AW hadn't been told anything in this regard to begin with, and so his circle couldn't have learned something from him (deliberately or accidentally), either. What was he as of the end of 1742 in a position to know that found its way back to Fritz in the winter causing "some displeasure" but seems to have been sincerely forgiven, given that Fritz does not bring it up in later years as an example of AW wronging him?
Possibilities:
1) The aborted France/Straßburg trip. AW, who had been a member of the party, could have talked to people about it, and given that we've seen he either somewhat exaggarates or was under a mistaken impression about the (not) arrest when writing down the trip for his newborn son in 1744, he might have included this in a story told to his friends, too, who in turn talked about it to someone else. Fritz didn't exactly keep that trip secret, he described it to Voltaire and others in letters, after all, but he might not wanted it to be told in the AW version by people not belonging to his own circle? (Would also provide yet another reason why AW gets edited out years later when Fritz mentions the trip to others.
2) Anything to do with their family horror show of the FW years, possibly something that didn't sound too bad for AW but was to Fritz?
3) Considered by me but regretfully abandoned, because AW wasn't with the army in the summer of 1741 and thus would not have known: the Handsome Hussar Georgii/Frederdorf Temporarily Out of The Tent affair.
4) Possibly something to do with Fritz and EC. it's the date more than anything that makes me wonder, because 1742 is AW's first year of marriage to EC's sister. Yes, the marriage itself is a political arrangement and he'll get more distant, not closer to his wife in time, but in the first year, and before Mina or Sophie von Pannewitz (later Voss) are an issue, and with the "male heirs NOW!" pressure, he must have spent considerable time with his new wife. So maybe they talked about their siblings, and AW said something along the line that he doesn't think (as opposed to what EC still believed) this then new separation was just because of the war but that Fritz really means it to be permanent, or, well, anything, and Louise told this to EC, who was the unexpected corner from which Fritz heard it in the winter?
Also, interesting, because he was so determined to join Fritz in the previous war and not particularly impressed with the "I want to protect you as the heir, so stay in Berlin" argument, but this suggests that he'd be fine with staying at home and not earning military honours as long as he feels like he gets to do something else that's useful. I know you said before that he became rather disenchanted with the whole idea of going to war and this fits right in.
And let's not forget, the second Silesian War included the experience (for Fritz, AW and Heinrich at the same time) of nearly dying and seeing Heinrich's page getting his head torn off by a shot that could have easily killed the rest of them as well. There's a big difference between playing soldier because Dad and your entire society has raised you to believe this was the highest purpose for a man and experiencing a war this way. I think AW after the second Silesian War must have lived through an increasing disconnected with the values he was raised with, and even the slightly different ones of Fritz' Prussia (but not different in this key regard), and the increasing realisation that he didn't enjoy war and heroics. Plus there was the inescapable problem that distinguishing yourself militarily was the only option for a prince in Prussia to achieve anything. There wasn't an alternative career available.
This is an essay in an interdisciplinary anthology on the subject of violence and language from the (German) middle ages to the early modern age. As opposed to a great many of the documents we'read, it's primarily a literary analysis and argumentation, though the historical perspective comes into it as well, of course. But what this isn't, for example, is a compare and contrast between Wilhelmine's memoirs and various other descriptions of the same events, let alone an attempt to figure out what "really" happened. It is an astute analysis of how violence of different types is presented in the text, how the different kinds of violence are tied to emotion, and the cathartic experience of the writing act. Jarzebowski doesn't argue with other interpretations, though she is a bit sarcastic in the footnotes, as in: Older historians aren't free of prejudice twoards the memoirs of the sister of their victorious King. (She lists Droysen and von Ranke.) Carlyle judges the memoirs specifically in regards to their female authorship: "A human book, however, not a pedant one; there is a most shrill female soul busy with intense earnestness there. (...) It is full of istakes, indeed, and exaggarates dreadfully, in its shrill female way."
The text excerpts Jarzebowski analyses - using Annette Kolb's translation into German, which is the one currently available in paperback and in print still and based on the longest version of the Memoirs -you're all already familiar with: physical abuse by Leti, humiliation by third parties (such as having repeatedly to strip for visiting ladies from Hannover to prove she doesn't have a hunchback), verbal abuse by FW and SD, food withdrawal or bad food, drinking enforcement (I had forgotten this happens to Wilhelmine as well at one point!), isolation as punishment, and, in tandem with 18th century beliefs, various physical illnessses as the result of verbal abuse. J. points out the structure and repeated cycles typical for the Memoirs:
Verbal abuse (insults like "English canaille" or "villain of a Fritz") => physical trespasses and encroachment (i.e. for example being forced to eat or drink) => humiliationg situations (being forced to vomit, being forced to show your naked back to visitors) => threats of physical violence => attempted physical violence, which if unsuccessful (beause, say, Wilhelmine is able to avoid the stick) of which triggers more verbal abuse => physical breakdown and illness on Wilhelmine's part.
J. points out while Wilhelmine describes these cycles for both herself and Fritz, she differentiates in one key regard. For Fritz, FW actually beating him (and in front of witnesses) is crossing a line that triggers, though the underlying causes are already multiple, the escape plans becoming serious. Fritz (in Wilhelmine's memoirs; remember, this is a textual analysis) thus sees physical violence by Dad against himself as different in quality from the previous forms of violence. Whereas, J. argues, Wilhelmine does not make this differentiation. When FW succesfully hits her (i.e. in the big August return scene), this isn't presented as worse than his previous verbal abuse or the various humiliations. It's all part of the same and she responds the same. Conversely, SD not becoming physically abusive isn't presented as better, once Wilhelmine has accepted the Bayreuth marriage and SD starts with the insults in earnest.
J. also positions that while Wilhelmine as narrator has no problem describing the physical violence of Leti the governess towards herself as wrong in as many words, even there there are mixed feelings (child!Wilhelmine asks FW not to send Leti to Spandau), and of course there are in a hopeless mess re: her parents, with narrator!Wilhelmine insisting they loved her, and she loved them, and sometimes they even loved her best (yet she never provides examples for those times). Of particular interest to me was J. pointing towards two particular scenes featuring Wilhelmine's sisters. When Friederike gets married first, she gives FW attitude for the bad food etc. (remember, this triggers FW throwing plates but not at Friederike but at Fritz and Wilhemine.) And during Wilhelmine's 32/33 visit, she has this dialogue with Charlotte, after stating Charlotte badmouthed her to SD: One day, when (SD) had maltreated me again and I cried in a corner of my room, (Charlotte) adressed me: "What's the matter with you?" "I'm desperate", I said, "because the Queen can't stand me anymore; and if this continues, I'll die of grief." Charlotte then replies: "How silly you are! (...) I only laugh when she scolds, and that's the best way to handle it." "Then you don't love her," I said, "for if one loves someone, one can't be indifferent to their opinion."
J. deduces mixed feelings from narrator Wilhelmine - on the one hand, there's (barely concealed) envy for the more distant relationship the younger sibs have towards their parents, on the other, there's the need to believe that this is solely possible because they love (and are loved) less, that the sisters have given up the ability to love in order to achieve this immunity.
Quote from the end of the essay: Thus it is possible to talk of a context of emotional violence in which Wilhelmine places her experiences for the most part, and which she submits her perception of her experiences to. The atmosphere of emotional violence becomes the dominating horizon of experience in the Memoirs. Thus, Wilhelmine's Memoirs become a perspective speficially tied to her status and critical of it at the same time. Her experiences of violence happen at different places and are transformed in various stages of remembrance until finding their final form in the Memoirs, the reliving, the alteration, the reordering, and thus don't render a final result but the process of reliving the past itself. Her text shows that she's conscious of the changeability of memories and experiences while writing them. To insist on analysing it for a definite singular statment or to read the text for finate statements would mean to ignore a key quality of the partly contradictory, heterogenous and argumentative text. Her Memoirs can be understood as an attempt to render an atmosphere of emotional violence which she perceived as inescapable, with experiences and memories becoming condensed. The text of the Memoirs thus can be understood as another arena in which said violence is (re)experienced.
The text excerpts Jarzebowski analyses - using Annette Kolb's translation into German, which is the one currently available in paperback and in print still and based on the longest version of the Memoirs -you're all already familiar with: physical abuse by Leti, humiliation by third parties (such as having repeatedly to strip for visiting ladies from Hannover to prove she doesn't have a hunchback), verbal abuse by FW and SD, food withdrawal or bad food, drinking enforcement (I had forgotten this happens to Wilhelmine as well at one point!), isolation as punishment, and, in tandem with 18th century beliefs, various physical illnessses as the result of verbal abuse. J. points out the structure and repeated cycles typical for the Memoirs:
Verbal abuse (insults like "English canaille" or "villain of a Fritz") => physical trespasses and encroachment (i.e. for example being forced to eat or drink) => humiliationg situations (being forced to vomit, being forced to show your naked back to visitors) => threats of physical violence => attempted physical violence, which if unsuccessful (beause, say, Wilhelmine is able to avoid the stick) of which triggers more verbal abuse => physical breakdown and illness on Wilhelmine's part.
J. points out while Wilhelmine describes these cycles for both herself and Fritz, she differentiates in one key regard. For Fritz, FW actually beating him (and in front of witnesses) is crossing a line that triggers, though the underlying causes are already multiple, the escape plans becoming serious. Fritz (in Wilhelmine's memoirs; remember, this is a textual analysis) thus sees physical violence by Dad against himself as different in quality from the previous forms of violence. Whereas, J. argues, Wilhelmine does not make this differentiation. When FW succesfully hits her (i.e. in the big August return scene), this isn't presented as worse than his previous verbal abuse or the various humiliations. It's all part of the same and she responds the same. Conversely, SD not becoming physically abusive isn't presented as better, once Wilhelmine has accepted the Bayreuth marriage and SD starts with the insults in earnest.
J. also positions that while Wilhelmine as narrator has no problem describing the physical violence of Leti the governess towards herself as wrong in as many words, even there there are mixed feelings (child!Wilhelmine asks FW not to send Leti to Spandau), and of course there are in a hopeless mess re: her parents, with narrator!Wilhelmine insisting they loved her, and she loved them, and sometimes they even loved her best (yet she never provides examples for those times). Of particular interest to me was J. pointing towards two particular scenes featuring Wilhelmine's sisters. When Friederike gets married first, she gives FW attitude for the bad food etc. (remember, this triggers FW throwing plates but not at Friederike but at Fritz and Wilhemine.) And during Wilhelmine's 32/33 visit, she has this dialogue with Charlotte, after stating Charlotte badmouthed her to SD: One day, when (SD) had maltreated me again and I cried in a corner of my room, (Charlotte) adressed me: "What's the matter with you?" "I'm desperate", I said, "because the Queen can't stand me anymore; and if this continues, I'll die of grief." Charlotte then replies: "How silly you are! (...) I only laugh when she scolds, and that's the best way to handle it." "Then you don't love her," I said, "for if one loves someone, one can't be indifferent to their opinion."
J. deduces mixed feelings from narrator Wilhelmine - on the one hand, there's (barely concealed) envy for the more distant relationship the younger sibs have towards their parents, on the other, there's the need to believe that this is solely possible because they love (and are loved) less, that the sisters have given up the ability to love in order to achieve this immunity.
Quote from the end of the essay: Thus it is possible to talk of a context of emotional violence in which Wilhelmine places her experiences for the most part, and which she submits her perception of her experiences to. The atmosphere of emotional violence becomes the dominating horizon of experience in the Memoirs. Thus, Wilhelmine's Memoirs become a perspective speficially tied to her status and critical of it at the same time. Her experiences of violence happen at different places and are transformed in various stages of remembrance until finding their final form in the Memoirs, the reliving, the alteration, the reordering, and thus don't render a final result but the process of reliving the past itself. Her text shows that she's conscious of the changeability of memories and experiences while writing them. To insist on analysing it for a definite singular statment or to read the text for finate statements would mean to ignore a key quality of the partly contradictory, heterogenous and argumentative text. Her Memoirs can be understood as an attempt to render an atmosphere of emotional violence which she perceived as inescapable, with experiences and memories becoming condensed. The text of the Memoirs thus can be understood as another arena in which said violence is (re)experienced.
Huh, this is really interesting.
Older historians aren't free of prejudice twoards the memoirs of the sister of their victorious King.
Heh, yay, call them out!
drinking enforcement (I had forgotten this happens to Wilhelmine as well at one point!)
I think I must have blocked this one out (if I got that far). Geez, FW.
J. points out the structure and repeated cycles typical for the Memoirs:
Wow, ugh. I did subconsciously notice that, because while I didn't realize it consciously, when you wrote the cycle out I was nodding and going "yup, yup, that was exactly what happened."
J. deduces mixed feelings from narrator Wilhelmine - on the one hand, there's (barely concealed) envy for the more distant relationship the younger sibs have towards their parents, on the other, there's the need to believe that this is solely possible because they love (and are loved) less, that the sisters have given up the ability to love in order to achieve this immunity.
That makes a lot of sense, that she's got to rationalize and in some sense validate the relationship she has with her parents. UGH.
Her Memoirs can be understood as an attempt to render an atmosphere of emotional violence which she perceived as inescapable, with experiences and memories becoming condensed. The text of the Memoirs thus can be understood as another arena in which said violence is (re)experienced.
In other words, as you and mildred would say: therapy via memoir! :P
Older historians aren't free of prejudice twoards the memoirs of the sister of their victorious King.
Heh, yay, call them out!
drinking enforcement (I had forgotten this happens to Wilhelmine as well at one point!)
I think I must have blocked this one out (if I got that far). Geez, FW.
J. points out the structure and repeated cycles typical for the Memoirs:
Wow, ugh. I did subconsciously notice that, because while I didn't realize it consciously, when you wrote the cycle out I was nodding and going "yup, yup, that was exactly what happened."
J. deduces mixed feelings from narrator Wilhelmine - on the one hand, there's (barely concealed) envy for the more distant relationship the younger sibs have towards their parents, on the other, there's the need to believe that this is solely possible because they love (and are loved) less, that the sisters have given up the ability to love in order to achieve this immunity.
That makes a lot of sense, that she's got to rationalize and in some sense validate the relationship she has with her parents. UGH.
Her Memoirs can be understood as an attempt to render an atmosphere of emotional violence which she perceived as inescapable, with experiences and memories becoming condensed. The text of the Memoirs thus can be understood as another arena in which said violence is (re)experienced.
In other words, as you and mildred would say: therapy via memoir! :P
drinking enforcement (I had forgotten this happens to Wilhelmine as well at one point!)
I think I must have blocked this one out (if I got that far). Geez, FW.
It happens after the plate throwing at Fritz and Wihelmine scene. What happens next, the essay reminds me, is that after this scene, Wilhelmine gets fever and a rash at night, but has to present herself to her father the next morning, as per regular.
What's the matter with you?" he asked. "You look completely changed. But I'll have you cured on the double." And he ordered a large mug full of old, very strong Rhine wine for me, which he forced me to drink. As soon as I had emptied the mug, my fever got stronger, and I started to hallucinate.
To be fair, what FW is doing here isn't meant as a punishment or a disciplinary measure. Making someone who looks feverish drink alcohol was a standard practice (and hey, up to and including the Spanish Flu in the 20th century people kept doing that). But it's of course anything but helpful. BTW, the scene does illustrate that 18th century medicine aside, a great many of Wilhelmine's various illnesses look like psychosomatic manifestations of the rebellion she can't express otherwise.
I've also by now read a short book from 1865 about Wilhelmine and Voltaire, and the 19th century author reminded me again on how deep and lasting the taboo to say anything critical about your parents was, especially if you were a woman, since there's an entire paragraph saying "readers, you'll have heard the Margravine was a bad daughter for writing this way about her parents, and it's true, she does that, offending our tender notions of family life, but it has to be said that 18th century people just weren't as committed to the family ideal and respect for one's elders the way we 19th century people are!"
(Note that the problem doesn't seem to be in the reported abuse but in the reporting.)
Now Voltaire of course also was less than respectful about his parents, but the writer doesn't even try to defend him on this account. (Possibly because he's French, and possibly because he's a man.) I'll do a write up of the Wilhelmine and Voltalire book - which is online - in some weeks, I can't right now, safe to say the other very 19th century attitude gem is this, only slightly paraphrased: "Now a hundred years later, we can see that Voltaire, unlike Fritz, wasn't a genius, he was just a talent, with his personality being more interesting than any of his works. Fritz was just more deep, you know? While both he and Voltaire were sarcastic, Fritz achieved a moral high standing that forever eluded Voltaire."
That's...err. Yeah. Tells you all about the mental attitude in Germany five years before the Franco-Prussian war.
Back to the J essay: In other words, as you and mildred would say: therapy via memoir! :P
Yes, and the refreshing thing is that unlike all the other writers, Jarzebowksi doesn't see this as devalueing the worth of the Memoirs. (Who aren't written as a history but as a highly personal work.) I mean, obviously if you want to find out what exactly happened, it's always important to see whether there's a second source backing Wilhelmine up or presenting a different version. But if you want to know how Wilhelmine felt about the various events during the years she was writing this, then it's invaluable.
I think I must have blocked this one out (if I got that far). Geez, FW.
It happens after the plate throwing at Fritz and Wihelmine scene. What happens next, the essay reminds me, is that after this scene, Wilhelmine gets fever and a rash at night, but has to present herself to her father the next morning, as per regular.
What's the matter with you?" he asked. "You look completely changed. But I'll have you cured on the double." And he ordered a large mug full of old, very strong Rhine wine for me, which he forced me to drink. As soon as I had emptied the mug, my fever got stronger, and I started to hallucinate.
To be fair, what FW is doing here isn't meant as a punishment or a disciplinary measure. Making someone who looks feverish drink alcohol was a standard practice (and hey, up to and including the Spanish Flu in the 20th century people kept doing that). But it's of course anything but helpful. BTW, the scene does illustrate that 18th century medicine aside, a great many of Wilhelmine's various illnesses look like psychosomatic manifestations of the rebellion she can't express otherwise.
I've also by now read a short book from 1865 about Wilhelmine and Voltaire, and the 19th century author reminded me again on how deep and lasting the taboo to say anything critical about your parents was, especially if you were a woman, since there's an entire paragraph saying "readers, you'll have heard the Margravine was a bad daughter for writing this way about her parents, and it's true, she does that, offending our tender notions of family life, but it has to be said that 18th century people just weren't as committed to the family ideal and respect for one's elders the way we 19th century people are!"
(Note that the problem doesn't seem to be in the reported abuse but in the reporting.)
Now Voltaire of course also was less than respectful about his parents, but the writer doesn't even try to defend him on this account. (Possibly because he's French, and possibly because he's a man.) I'll do a write up of the Wilhelmine and Voltalire book - which is online - in some weeks, I can't right now, safe to say the other very 19th century attitude gem is this, only slightly paraphrased: "Now a hundred years later, we can see that Voltaire, unlike Fritz, wasn't a genius, he was just a talent, with his personality being more interesting than any of his works. Fritz was just more deep, you know? While both he and Voltaire were sarcastic, Fritz achieved a moral high standing that forever eluded Voltaire."
That's...err. Yeah. Tells you all about the mental attitude in Germany five years before the Franco-Prussian war.
Back to the J essay: In other words, as you and mildred would say: therapy via memoir! :P
Yes, and the refreshing thing is that unlike all the other writers, Jarzebowksi doesn't see this as devalueing the worth of the Memoirs. (Who aren't written as a history but as a highly personal work.) I mean, obviously if you want to find out what exactly happened, it's always important to see whether there's a second source backing Wilhelmine up or presenting a different version. But if you want to know how Wilhelmine felt about the various events during the years she was writing this, then it's invaluable.
Lol. I am LITERALLY looking at them right now, and engaged in an internal debate. Nominations + treats are more likely than signing up, the way things have been going, but hmmm.
ETA: ALSO. Regardless of whether I sign up, someone owes me a Peter Keith fic. Just saying. :)
ETA: ALSO. Regardless of whether I sign up, someone owes me a Peter Keith fic. Just saying. :)
Edited 2021-05-09 19:31 (UTC)
I nominated him
:DDD
I had checked, but didn't see him, so figured you either hadn't gotten around to nominating yet or yours hadn't gone through. Good to know it's the latter!
Also. Hmm. I do have a biographical essay on Peter in the works. Perhaps I could use RMSE as an added incentive to, you know, actually finish writing it. For research purposes.
After all, it was RMSE that inspired me to finally track down his obituary a year ago, I just remembered.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
cahn, how do you feel about corporate AU RMSE? That would probably be easier than anything for me at this point, and we could game our signups. And then you wouldn't have to beta my 30k word fic for selenak, and you'd have time to write your own fic, win-win. :P
:DDD
I had checked, but didn't see him, so figured you either hadn't gotten around to nominating yet or yours hadn't gone through. Good to know it's the latter!
Also. Hmm. I do have a biographical essay on Peter in the works. Perhaps I could use RMSE as an added incentive to, you know, actually finish writing it. For research purposes.
After all, it was RMSE that inspired me to finally track down his obituary a year ago, I just remembered.
cahn, how do you feel about corporate AU RMSE? That would probably be easier than anything for me at this point, and we could game our signups. And then you wouldn't have to beta my 30k word fic for selenak, and you'd have time to write your own fic, win-win. :PSo we don't do doubles, here are my Frederician nominations:
?! Ernst Ahasverus von Lehndorff/Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
?! Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great/Peter Karl Christoph von Keith
?! Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great/Voltaire (Writer)
?! Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf/Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
?! Friedrich II von Preußen/Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
?! Francesco Algarotti/Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
?! Ernst Ahasverus von Lehndorff/Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
?! Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great/Peter Karl Christoph von Keith
?! Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great/Voltaire (Writer)
?! Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf/Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
?! Friedrich II von Preußen/Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
?! Francesco Algarotti/Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Still brainstorming, but this is my list so far, based on what I'm likely to request:
Fritz/Peter
Fritz/Katte
Peter/Algarotti
Peter/Katte
Fritz/Peter/Katte
Fritz/Algarotti
Heinrich/Kaphengst
ETA: Oh, Fritz/Suhm, of course.
Btw, hoping to return to salon soon, as indicated in my most recent post. I need some variety in my Fritzian fandom activities (A fan shall not live by German study alone), and I miss you all!
Fritz/Katte
Peter/Algarotti
Peter/Katte
Fritz/Peter/Katte
Fritz/Algarotti
Heinrich/Kaphengst
ETA: Oh, Fritz/Suhm, of course.
Btw, hoping to return to salon soon, as indicated in my most recent post. I need some variety in my Fritzian fandom activities (A fan shall not live by German study alone), and I miss you all!
Edited 2021-05-09 19:53 (UTC)
LOL. I was looking through last year's Original Work nominations for inspiration, and what should I find but
King Who Fought in the War/Prince of Enemy Country He's Marrying as Part of the Peace Treaty
YES THIS.
Now seriously entertaining nominating Fritz/Joseph. :P Maybe Fritz/(P)Russian Pete.
Selena, are there any books you can recommend in German on our ViennaJoe? I was going to wait until after I'd finished Stollberg-Rilinger to ask, but...might as well ask now.
King Who Fought in the War/Prince of Enemy Country He's Marrying as Part of the Peace Treaty
YES THIS.
Now seriously entertaining nominating Fritz/Joseph. :P Maybe Fritz/(P)Russian Pete.
Selena, are there any books you can recommend in German on our ViennaJoe? I was going to wait until after I'd finished Stollberg-Rilinger to ask, but...might as well ask now.
Okay WHAT IF...
AnhaltSophie is married to Heinrich and playing Game of Thrones, and Fritz marries (P)Russian Pete during the Seven Years' War, and then AnhaltSophie has Peter killed because of *handwaves* reasons, and then the war ends a year later and as part of the peace treaty, Fritz marries ViennaJoe and it's GAME ON for everyone and their ambitions.
:D :D :D
WHY must my brain produce plotty AU ideas, WHY.
Feel free to write this
AnhaltSophie is married to Heinrich and playing Game of Thrones, and Fritz marries (P)Russian Pete during the Seven Years' War, and then AnhaltSophie has Peter killed because of *handwaves* reasons, and then the war ends a year later and as part of the peace treaty, Fritz marries ViennaJoe and it's GAME ON for everyone and their ambitions.
:D :D :D
WHY must my brain produce plotty AU ideas, WHY.
Feel free to write this
arrrrgh I was going to say RMSE is just NOT catering to my likes because i don't really want particular relationships in general (I just like character-based exchanges), and I honestly really don't have slash relationships I care deeply about. BUT I would totally sign up for the chance of this :P Also Worldcon is not going to be held right at the same time as the due date, AND the due date is after my next big work deadline, so, ugh. Maybe :)
No, I can't, since I haven't yet read any, but you're reminding me that I've been meaning to check out that book about him and his five lady friends (you kow, whom he thanked on his deathbed for "tolerating me" and whom Leopold complained about him listening to). I'll check what the Stabi has.
But yeah, LOL on the prompt fitting our very first crack fic so precisely. Well, except for the part where the narrative emphasis on that one was on the Fritz & MT and Heinrich & FS interactions and ViennaJoe only came in the last reel, which presumably would incense a recipient in a slahsh ficathon. :)
But yeah, LOL on the prompt fitting our very first crack fic so precisely. Well, except for the part where the narrative emphasis on that one was on the Fritz & MT and Heinrich & FS interactions and ViennaJoe only came in the last reel, which presumably would incense a recipient in a slahsh ficathon. :)
We miss you desperately, too. Also, hey, if you do nominate Heinrich/Kaphengst, I'm going to ask for it, because he's the Heinrich boyfriend I haven't yet a fictional handle on, and since it's a key relationship in his life, I would like someone to tell me what's going on inside Kaphengst (other than the obvious benefit from being a prince's favourite, obviously).
Meanwhile, I'm delighted for having those options to provide you finally with the Peter fic with. If, that is, you and/orcahn take part in the ficathon, because let's face it, no one else will ask for Peter! (Even if a stray Fritz/Katte shipper should find their way to the ficathon. Can't you persuade the Mobster Author to join?)
Meanwhile, I'm delighted for having those options to provide you finally with the Peter fic with. If, that is, you and/or
cahn take part in the ficathon, because let's face it, no one else will ask for Peter! (Even if a stray Fritz/Katte shipper should find their way to the ficathon. Can't you persuade the Mobster Author to join?) I know, I'm still undecided too. I'll just say I started outlining the worldbuilding for this one last night. ;)
How do you feel about Fritz/Mike Corporate AU with heavy doses of less slashy stuff?
How do you feel about Fritz/Mike Corporate AU with heavy doses of less slashy stuff?
. Well, except for the part where the narrative emphasis on that one was on the Fritz & MT and Heinrich & FS interactions and ViennaJoe only came in the last reel, which presumably would incense a recipient in a slahsh ficathon. :)
Exceptcahn. :P But yeah, if I were going to write this, I would go heavy on the plotty AU, as you can tell from where my brain started going with this.
The problem is that I don't know Joseph well enough to make him party to the main pairing, something I've been meaning to remedy, but wouldn't happen in time for this exchange. (Same reason I don't want to write Catherine/AnhaltSophie until I've had a chance to do more research.) (See, I knew salon would give my motivation a kick.)
I'll check what the Stabi has.
Thanks!
Except
cahn. :P But yeah, if I were going to write this, I would go heavy on the plotty AU, as you can tell from where my brain started going with this.The problem is that I don't know Joseph well enough to make him party to the main pairing, something I've been meaning to remedy, but wouldn't happen in time for this exchange. (Same reason I don't want to write Catherine/AnhaltSophie until I've had a chance to do more research.) (See, I knew salon would give my motivation a kick.)
I'll check what the Stabi has.
Thanks!
Also, hey, if you do nominate Heinrich/Kaphengst, I'm going to ask for it, because he's the Heinrich boyfriend I haven't yet a fictional handle on
Hmmm. Will keep this in mind! I have thoughts, though not fully developed ones, since I haven't actually written a fic focusing on these two.
Can't you persuade the Mobster Author to join?)
Alas, not likely, judging by our conversation yesterday, but I will point out that she writes me Peter fic *without* me having to sign up for exchanges, hint hint. :D
Hmmm. Will keep this in mind! I have thoughts, though not fully developed ones, since I haven't actually written a fic focusing on these two.
Can't you persuade the Mobster Author to join?)
Alas, not likely, judging by our conversation yesterday, but I will point out that she writes me Peter fic *without* me having to sign up for exchanges, hint hint. :D
Stabi has this and other Joseph bios; I'm posting the link here for myself so I'll find them again easier once I can order new books again (I'm still busy with the six I ordered, of which the Wilhelmine essay one is but one, since I have other stuff to research, not salon-related):
ViennaJoe books here.
ViennaJoe books here.
Page 2 of 13