Sugar Hoarder‘s title: Schmidt-Lötzen translates this as Oberhofmarschall, not Oberhofmeister.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is there a huge difference? He seems to be the guy in charge of the courtiers either way. At least enough, I would think, to make the identification.
Lehndorff might not have been interested in Hans Herrmann, but he sure delivers on gossip about Hans Herrmann‘s family, doesn‘t he?
He sure does! Of course I wish he did both, but since he's supplying what no one else did, in a way that's even better? Because at least then Hans Hermann has some family members, which comes in useful for fic. (I was going to say, family members that are more than just names, but we didn't even have their names until we started trying to figure out how Lehndorff's gossip targets were related to our Hans Hermann!)
I will check out the volume register, if there is one, but it might be a while - I‘m on the road pretty much the entire next week.
No rush, just offering to do more research to satisfy your curiosity if I have more data. :)
I suspect more of general Fritz paranoia and/or spite re: his nephew.
Agreed. Fritz's control issues come to the fore whenever his heir is concerned: zero chill whatsoever.
No difference, Oberhofmarschall sounds more grandiose, that's all. There's an amusing interlude when the court is evacuating Berlin the second time, Amalie takes old Pöllnitz along in her carriage because no one else is offering a place in the hectic mess, and Lehndorff regards this as a proof no good deed goes unpunished because Pöllnitz promptly appoints himself Amalie's Oberhofmarschall (she doesn't have one since doesn't have a large enough Household of her own), to which everyone goes "oh no you're not!" (Wartensleben, too, of course!)
So: what was a type like Ludwig the sugar hoarder like as a young man, and was Fritz promoting or punishing him when making him his unwanted wife's Oberhofmarschall? Also, how come Grandpa Wartensleben, who was a baroque splendour guy, had such a cheapskate son? Then again: F1 had FW!
No difference, Oberhofmarschall sounds more grandiose, that's all.
Ah, okay, I thought you were presenting this as possible counterevidence to the identification. Looks like we're all on the same page, then.
Lehndorff regards this as a proof no good deed goes unpunished because Pöllnitz promptly appoints himself Amalie's Oberhofmarschall (she doesn't have one since doesn't have a large enough Household of her own), to which everyone goes "oh no you're not!"
LOL. Lehndorff has the best (non-Hans Hermann) gossip!
So: what was a type like Ludwig the sugar hoarder like as a young man, and was Fritz promoting or punishing him when making him his unwanted wife's Oberhofmarschall?
Both very good questions! In answer to the second one, probably a little of both: Fritz obviously didn't think highly enough of him to give him a better job, but it is respectable. What was he like as a young man? Your guess is as good as mine. Hans Hermann must have experienced a very different side of young Fritz than older Lehndorff did, and ditto with cousin Ludolf the diligent participator in youthful escapades and future terrible husband, so Hans Hermann may also have seen future sugar hoarder at his best. Or they may have hated each other, or anything in between, who knows.
Also, how come Grandpa Wartensleben, who was a baroque splendour guy, had such a cheapskate son? Then again: F1 had FW!
Incidentally, if sugar hoarder Ludwig did indeed make a pass at EC (in between hitting on the staff) and if Friedrich Sophus thought she was hot, that makes two Wartenslebens who considered her attractive.
AS for cousin Ludolf the future terrible husband: Lehndorff himself admists elsewhere that beloved Prince of Prussia AW was also a terrible husband. (By neglect, not by active insult, but stll, neglect hurts, too.)So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife. Especially if she, too, had feelings for Lehndorff when she married. I mean, we don't know that. For all we know, it was entirely on Lehndorff's side, and she just thought he was her nice cousin but didn't care either way whom she married as long as it was a good prospect, which Ludolf certainly was. But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
Incidentally, she ended up as chief Lady in Waiting to Ferdinand's wife so spent a lot of time in Ferdinand's residence Friedrichsruh, or when Ferdinand & family were visiting Heinrich came along.
Incidentally, if sugar hoarder Ludwig did indeed make a pass at EC (in between hitting on the staff) and if Friedrich Sophus thought she was hot, that makes two Wartenslebens who considered her attractive.
Sorry, my wording was confusing. What I meant was that Friedrich Sophus said *Fritz* said she was hot. (This is in the 1730s, when the big Hohenzollern question of the decade is: is Fritz trying to get an heir on his wife or not?)
So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife.
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. And who else was a terrible husband but great fun for young Hans Hermann to hang out with? Fritz!
But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
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Re: Wartenslebens
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Is there a huge difference? He seems to be the guy in charge of the courtiers either way. At least enough, I would think, to make the identification.
Lehndorff might not have been interested in Hans Herrmann, but he sure delivers on gossip about Hans Herrmann‘s family, doesn‘t he?
He sure does! Of course I wish he did both, but since he's supplying what no one else did, in a way that's even better? Because at least then Hans Hermann has some family members, which comes in useful for fic. (I was going to say, family members that are more than just names, but we didn't even have their names until we started trying to figure out how Lehndorff's gossip targets were related to our Hans Hermann!)
I will check out the volume register, if there is one, but it might be a while - I‘m on the road pretty much the entire next week.
No rush, just offering to do more research to satisfy your curiosity if I have more data. :)
I suspect more of general Fritz paranoia and/or spite re: his nephew.
Agreed. Fritz's control issues come to the fore whenever his heir is concerned: zero chill whatsoever.
Re: Wartenslebens
So: what was a type like Ludwig the sugar hoarder like as a young man, and was Fritz promoting or punishing him when making him his unwanted wife's Oberhofmarschall? Also, how come Grandpa Wartensleben, who was a baroque splendour guy, had such a cheapskate son? Then again: F1 had FW!
Re: Wartenslebens
Ah, okay, I thought you were presenting this as possible counterevidence to the identification. Looks like we're all on the same page, then.
Lehndorff regards this as a proof no good deed goes unpunished because Pöllnitz promptly appoints himself Amalie's Oberhofmarschall (she doesn't have one since doesn't have a large enough Household of her own), to which everyone goes "oh no you're not!"
LOL. Lehndorff has the best (non-Hans Hermann) gossip!
So: what was a type like Ludwig the sugar hoarder like as a young man, and was Fritz promoting or punishing him when making him his unwanted wife's Oberhofmarschall?
Both very good questions! In answer to the second one, probably a little of both: Fritz obviously didn't think highly enough of him to give him a better job, but it is respectable. What was he like as a young man? Your guess is as good as mine. Hans Hermann must have experienced a very different side of young Fritz than older Lehndorff did, and ditto with cousin Ludolf the diligent participator in youthful escapades and future terrible husband, so Hans Hermann may also have seen future sugar hoarder at his best. Or they may have hated each other, or anything in between, who knows.
Also, how come Grandpa Wartensleben, who was a baroque splendour guy, had such a cheapskate son? Then again: F1 had FW!
I see you answered your own question. ;)
Re: Wartenslebens
AS for cousin Ludolf the future terrible husband: Lehndorff himself admists elsewhere that beloved Prince of Prussia AW was also a terrible husband. (By neglect, not by active insult, but stll, neglect hurts, too.)So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife. Especially if she, too, had feelings for Lehndorff when she married. I mean, we don't know that. For all we know, it was entirely on Lehndorff's side, and she just thought he was her nice cousin but didn't care either way whom she married as long as it was a good prospect, which Ludolf certainly was. But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
Incidentally, she ended up as chief Lady in Waiting to Ferdinand's wife so spent a lot of time in Ferdinand's residence Friedrichsruh, or when Ferdinand & family were visiting Heinrich came along.
Re: Wartenslebens
Sorry, my wording was confusing. What I meant was that Friedrich Sophus said *Fritz* said she was hot. (This is in the 1730s, when the big Hohenzollern question of the decade is: is Fritz trying to get an heir on his wife or not?)
So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife.
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. And who else was a terrible husband but great fun for young Hans Hermann to hang out with? Fritz!
But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
*nod* Quite possible.