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Frederick the Great, discussion post 5: or: Yuletide requests are out!
All Yuletide requests are out!
Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!
-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)
Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!
-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French
-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...
Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links
Yuletide related:
-it is sad that I can't watch opera quickly enough these days to have offered any of them, these requests are delightful!
-That is... sure a lot of prompts for MCS/Jingyan. But happily some that are not :D (I like MCS/Jingyan! But there are So Many Other characters!)
Frederician-specific:
-I am so excited someone requested Fritz/Voltaire, please someone write it!!
-I also really want someone to write that request for Poniatowski, although that is... definitely a niche request, even for this niche fandom. But he has memoirs?? apparently they are translated from Polish into French
-But while we are waiting/writing/etc., check out this crack commentfic where Heinrich and Franz Stefan are drinking together while Maria Theresia and Frederick the Great have their secret summit, which turns into a plot to marry the future Emperor Joseph to Fritz...
Master link to Frederick the Great posts and associated online links
What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
"Her numerous births have made her quite heavy. Nonetheless, she carries herself vivaciously, and has a majestic bearing. Her looks are impressive, though she spoils them by the way she dresses.(...) She has a round face, the hairs are blond without being reddish. Her eyes are large and sparkling, yet due to their bright blue colouring also benevolent. A small nose, neither an eagle's beak nor a pointed stub. The mouth is quite large, but still beautiful. Her teeth are white. A pleasant smile. Her neck and breasts are well formed. (...) Her expression is open and amused. Her look smiling and gracious. One cannot deny that she is a beautiful person."
(At this point, I imagine Fritz drumming his fingers and grumbling "Dude, did I ask ou to write a "MT, Hot or Not?" assessment? Do I need to replace you? What is she like?"
"The Queen (of Hungary) is a good actress. When she ascended the throne, she discovered the secret of appearing lovable and admirable by putting her sex, her beauty and her pregnancies in the foreground. She observed herself and only showed her good sides, friendly, pious, liberal, compassionate, courageous generous; thus, she won the hearts of her subjects. (...) Everyone competed to sacrifice themselves for the best of princesses. But it is hard to maintain an assumed character. The queen could not force herself to do this for long."
So, after the first Silesian War, says the good Ambassador, she revealed her true nature:
Her efforts to disguise her ambition beneath the veil of the dangers she was under relented. One slowly realised that far from being touched by the misery of her people, she was only driven by the ambition to enlarge her territory and thus continued the war without blushing. All the praise the world had heaped on her and a lot of her own self regard gave her a high opinion of her own abilities and made her authoritarian. Now, she listens to little advice, shows as much pride as her ancestors did and shows herself vengeful and unforgiving.
(Three guesses towards whom. However, the ambassador admits that she's not entirely undeserving of praise even now, for:)
"She has a quick and thorough mind and knows to devote herself to the matters of state with an eagerness that helps her solve difficulties. She combines a good memory with an assured judgment. She also knows very well to pretend and to keep her thoughts to herself so I find it difficult to read what is in her heart from her face. Nearly always, she appears to be friendly, warmhearted and encouraging towards those who are shy. Her manners are uncomplicated and thoughtful. She speaks clearly, acts graciously, and sometimes enjoys hearing herself talk. It is still relatively easy to address her, though not as much as at the beginning of her rule. She listens to the suggestions one makes with patience and kindness, and sometimes accepts the petitions for help directly."
But what does her army think of serving a woman who can't command them in the field?
"She is much beloved by the troops whose respect she earned by the courage she showed during the cruel defeats at the start of her rule. It is said that for a time, she was even seriously determined to command her armies herself, before being dissuaded. Generall speaking, she appears to stay away from the weaknesses of her sex and seeks to cultivate the virtues least fitting for it. (...) She seems to dislike being born a woman, for she does not pay enough attention to preserving her beauty,exposing herself without caution to the dangers of the weather, walking outside for hours in searing heat or bitter coldness, which she can endure even better than the heat. She lacks care for her finery, and except for holidays dresses in a simple fashion, with the court following her example."
Now if you've seen any portrait of MT, at whatever age, you might be tempted to exclaim "simple?". But leaving aside all portraits use carefully chosen costumes; what the ambassador here in particular is referring to is that MT, which we know from her letters as well, had no time for those extremely wide hoop skirts which for example her daughter MA favoured; in her every day life, she preferred as small a hoop as she could get away with in the fashion of the day, which made movement easier (especially once she'd gained weight).
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
AHAHAHAHAAA, I'm laughing so hard you have no idea. Fritz! Bielfeld wrote a "Hot or Not" assessment of you in 1738! Admittedly to his brother in a personal capacity, and not to his monarch in an official capacity. Still.
Now if you've seen any portrait of MT, at whatever age, you might be tempted to exclaim "simple?". But leaving aside all portraits use carefully chosen costumes;
Ooh, yes, the part about the hoop is very interesting, but indeed, I would never take a portrait to be representative of a monarch's everyday wear. I have in fact read that the way Fritz was always depicted in uniform after he became king was because that's how he appeared in public and the only way he wanted to be depicted; at home in the palace, he was still attending balls in the kind of fancy French dress that his father objected to so much when he was younger. Which, of course, is completely contrary to the myth of Old Fritz.
she was only driven by the ambition to enlarge her territory
Quelle horreur! A monarch driven only by the ambition to enlarge their territory!
I think I've invoked this quote before, but I can't help it: every time someone gets mad at MT for fighting to regain Silesia, all I can think of is Vizzini. "You're trying to kidnap what I have rightfully stolen!"
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
It's always tricky to assess historical people's looks, and portraits don't help much, since in most cases they've been comimissioned and were executed by painters who wanted to get paid. (Though it's still amazing that Goya was not only paid but was the court painter given how he made the Spanish Royals of his day look.) Beauty ideals change, plus nobility had the advantage of being far better fed and healthier than your avarage citizen, so they must have looked like coming from another world by that virtue alone. For example, when Goethe reports his parents described MT as beautiful to him, I'm taking this to mean that your avarage Frankfurt citizen saw her in her FS coronation finery, as far as one could see from a waving distance, she had regular features, they were impressed, no more than that. The Prussian ambassador who saw her up close and has no reason to flatter her in a report written for her (immune to female charms) arch nemesis is a somewhat more reliable witness, but still,beautiful for a Rokoko princess doesn't necessarily mean more than "had the fashionable colouring (blond, blue eyed) for her day, regular features and enough force of personality and charm to make an impression even after she had put on more weight than even at her era was thought desirable".
Re: Fritz dressing up in French finery out of the public's eye, yup, have read this, too. It seems he and MT went in opposite directions in their private/public looks,since she when representing was supposed to dazzle in her wardrobe. (See the ambassador's disapprovalf or her not doing so outside of the holidays.9
Quelle horreur! A monarch driven only by the ambition to enlarge their territory!
It's shocking, simply shocking. Seriously though, one reads this, remembers whom it's adressed to and wonders "was he trolling Fritz or did he really believe in this double standard so much?" Alas, I fear it was the later.
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
Along the lines of what you summarize as fashionable coloring for his day, regular features, and enough force of personality and charm to make an impression, even though I don't think anyone's ever convincingly called him good-looking.
"He is not of a remarkable stature, and would not have been chosen to have ruled in the place of Saul, but when we consider the strength and beauty of his genius, we cannot but desire, for the prosperity of the people, to see him fill the throne of Prussia. His features are highly pleasing, with a sprightly look and a noble air, and it depends altogether on himself to appear perfectly engaging. A petit maître of Paris would not perhaps admire his frisure; his hair however is of a bright brown, carelessly curled, but well adapted to his countenance. His large blue eyes have at once something severe, soft, and gracious. I was surprised to find in him so youthful an air. His behavior in every respect, is that of a person of exalted rank, and he is the most polite man in all that kingdom over which he is born to rule."
"His features are highly pleasing" I am taking to mean "regular enough, not strikingly good looking, well fed*, and it barely matters because he has charisma."
* Aside from when his father was starving him, all descriptions of Fritz I've seen, including from his own mouth, have him on the plump side.
Alas, I fear it was the later.
Alas, I'm inclined to agree. Also, let's not forget Fritz's Very Important Historical Claim to Silesia! Obviously MT is in the wrong here. :P
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
"He is small and of noble comportment. His build is irregular; his hips sit too high and his legs are too fat. He has handsome blue eyes, which bulge out a little too much, but which easily betray his mood; so that their expression changes according to his different states of mind...His hair is thick, he has a winning mouth and nose, his smile is amiable and spiritual, but often bitter and mocking."
Other people who commented on Fritz's eyes being the most striking part of his appearance: Voltaire, Catt, Countess Egloffstein, Lafayette. Given the intensity of his personality, that does not surprise me at all.
"The French seem to have been particularly susceptible to Frederick's big blue eyes—'the most beautiful I have ever seen' was the verdict of the Marquis de Lafayette, who had looked into quite a few beautiful eyes in his time—quoted in Bernd Klesmann, 'Friedrich II. und Frankreich: Faszination und Skepsis,' in Friederisiko, Ausstellung, p. 144."
Ha! Lafayette/Fritz? :P
Voltaire, like Valory, also seems to have found Fritz's smile attractive, at least before their falling out.
Somebody write Fritz/Voltaire:PRe: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
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Emmanuel de Croy: Wow. Just wow. Captain Cook is a most valiant man. May he go on exploring the planet some more and write about it so I can read it! Hang on, zomg, I've just remembered: He's British. We're at cold-hot-cold-hot war with England. What if our ships meet him at seas and stop this most wonderful man from exploring? #saveJamesCook
*goes on to write a memo to the French admirality that all French ships should be told to treat Captain Cook with the utmost courtesy should they meet him*
Admirality: Okay, Monsieur Le Duc, you have the requisite number of ancestors, so... I guess we'll forward the memo.
EdC: Excellent! But wait! What if AMERICAN buccaneers encounter and harm wonderful Captain Cook? #saveJamesCook
*off he goes to Franklin*
F: Hi, glad to see you. We're as always out of money and guns and would be grateful for more of same. More Lafayettes, too.
EdC: I sympathize, but that's not why I'm here. We must #saveJamesCook! Promise me! No American ship must ever harm him and stop him from exploring!!!!
F:...Okay.
When I read that I thought the Duke was lucky not to have run into the considerably more short tempered John Adams, who was replacing Franklin as Ambassador until he in turn was replaced by Jefferson. BTW, the Duke was also thrilled when the brothers Montgolfier did their great balloon launch at Versailles, something that's wonderfully visualized in the miniseries John Adams, because Adams, Abigail and Jefferson watched it together, here.
The Duke was so thrilled that he made his own little balloon (without a living person in it) afterwards and send it across the channel in the general direction of Dover, noting in his diary how lucky he was to have lived into a time where people could now fly and the wonderful Captain Cook was exploring the other side of the planet. #saveJamesCook
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This is 1785, just a year before Fritz died--possibly from all that snuff-taking. I would love to see a portrait of Old Fritz that depicts the state of his clothes, but I guess that's too much realism even for him. :P I just keep running across it in like every description of a foreign visitor. Nobody can pass by him in their memoirs without mentioning that he's covered in snuff. (I guess it's memorable when you start sneezing as you approach him, which at least one visitor accused him of.)
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
Because I have the epic rap battle permanently stuck in my head, I am reminded by this, and also the "as charming an expression...as he can take a rough and threatening one at the head of his troops" in the above quote, of "I've got creative talents and battle malice; hard as steel on the field, genteel in the palace."
This is why people entitle biographies of him with words like "enigma" and "contradictions."
I am also reminded of his ability to charm young Catherine the Great at dinner. He could switch it on when he wanted to, no question.
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
Re: the eyes, remember when I mentioned that Amalie was supposedly the sibling with the closest physical resemblance to Fritz? Goethe's late age pen pal Zelter, a musician, once got her to let him go through her cherished collection of rare original Bach manuscripts (as far as we know, she did not have an affair with Friedemann, but she did manage to gather the most impressive collection of hand-written Bach scores - both JB himself and his sons; Carl Emmanual also called her his patroness and wrote a dedication to her), and here's how Zelter describes it - Amalie was an old lady at that point:
"Princess Amalie once let me see her musical collection, but only the titles, through the glass of the cupboards. One of the works, she took out, but kept it in her hands, and only let me look. But then I grabbed it in order to further browse through it, and shocked, her eyes grew large as wheels. They were the eyes of her brother."
(„Prinzeß Amalie ließ mich einmal ihre Musikalien sehen, aber nur die Titel, durch das Glas der Schränke. Ein Werk nahm sie heraus, behielt es aber in Händen und ließ mich nur hineingucken. Da griff ich aber zu, um darin blättern zu können, und sie, erschrocken, machte Augen wie Wagenräder. Es waren die Augen ihres Bruders.“)
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Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
She listens to the suggestions one makes with patience and kindness, and sometimes accepts the petitions for help directly.
Now, she listens to little advice, shows as much pride as her ancestors did and shows herself vengeful and unforgiving.
...these both don't sound consistent, ambassador! Although, lol, I can see how "no, you still can't have Silesia" might come across as "unforgiving" to Fritz partisans.
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
Indeed; this is the same ambassador who wrote "she does not deny your majesty's abilities, but she cannot forgive Silesia" in another dispatch. Basic attitude: why does she keep making a fuss about what we've rightfully stolen, and anyway, it's unwomanly! Why she doesn't spend three hours a day on her make-up and hair style (this was the non-MT avarage for a noble lady in Vienna at that time) is beyond me, unless she really wants to be a man, amirite?
Re: What the Prussian Ambassador Wrote
But I'm sure Fritz would like her to spend less time managing her country and army so effectively, and more time playing music. :P Much more appropriate for women.
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this is why I want someone to write it