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Odyssey Books 1-3 (trans. Wilson)
I have not read the Odyssey since I was in middle school, and (as will rapidly become clear) I remember basically nothing about the poem itself, although I'm familiar with all the elements of the story. Thanks to ![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
selenak, I'm reading the Emily Wilson translation, which I'm enjoying! I had a lot of fun with my Aeneid read a while back, and in the interest of spurring Classics salon discussion I am gonna semi-liveblog my Odyssey read too.
I have not yet read any of the copious intro notes (which I always enjoy) as I didn't want to be spoiled for this, uh, thousands-of-years-old epic. I'll read them at the end, remind me if I don't!
In these books, Telemachus is oppressed by the suitors for his mom's hand eating him out of house and home, and Athena appears to him periodically in the guise of older men to get him moving. Athena gets him to the point where in book 3 Telemachus visits Nestor, who gives him all the hot gossip on how everyone fared at the end of the Trojan War. (Alas, he does not know where Odysseus is.)
- Okay, so, I'm kind of impressed how little I remember about the Odyssey -- I kind of thought it would directly be about, you know, Odysseus? Who has not had any screen time at all so far, unless you count the very beginning where there's a little blurb where the gods chat about what he's been up to, and how he's (sadly... so they say...) chilling with Calypso right now while everything is going to pieces in Ithaca. It's the Telemachus show!
- I really like the translation so far. It seems to me to be very readable, and although I haven't really read large parts of it aloud, the bits I've read aloud (or aloud-inside-my-head) have worked well that way too. I had seen some talk about how "Tell me about a complicated man" isn't a good translation of the first line, but as English poetry I think it works.
- Athena/Mentes:
But I am sure that he [Odysseus]
is not yet dead. The wide sea keeps him trapped
upon some island, captured by fierce men
who will not let him go.
Heh, Athena/Mentes, not mentioning Calypso this time, are you?
- Boy, this poet is sure upset about Aegisthus killing Agamemnon. It's come up twice so far in reasonably large sections, and mentioned at least once more besides that.
- Other things that have come up twice: Telemachus saying (to Athena/Mentes in Book 1 and then Nestor in Book 3) that he believes his father won't come back, and the implication that it's not clear whether he's Odysseus's son (first Telemachus says it to Athena/Mentes in Book 1, and then Athena/Mentor says it back to him in Book 2). The first sort of makes sense to me, as it's presumably safer for Telemachus if he asserts that. The second idk, is this some kind of cultural thing? Is the idea that everyone is waiting to see if he turns out like his dad (whether or not, as Athena points out, it says anything about his biological status, as sons don't always turn out like fathers)? Anyway, seems tough on Penelope, either way...
- Poor Penelope, in general. Although we hear about how awesome she is (the whole weaving trick), the only bit of screen time she's gotten is where she asks the singer not to sing songs that remind her of her missing husband, and then her son yells at her. Not cool, Telemachus!
-So far Athena seems pretty reasonable, for a god. Hopefully that continues!
selenak, I'm reading the Emily Wilson translation, which I'm enjoying! I had a lot of fun with my Aeneid read a while back, and in the interest of spurring Classics I have not yet read any of the copious intro notes (which I always enjoy) as I didn't want to be spoiled for this, uh, thousands-of-years-old epic. I'll read them at the end, remind me if I don't!
In these books, Telemachus is oppressed by the suitors for his mom's hand eating him out of house and home, and Athena appears to him periodically in the guise of older men to get him moving. Athena gets him to the point where in book 3 Telemachus visits Nestor, who gives him all the hot gossip on how everyone fared at the end of the Trojan War. (Alas, he does not know where Odysseus is.)
- Okay, so, I'm kind of impressed how little I remember about the Odyssey -- I kind of thought it would directly be about, you know, Odysseus? Who has not had any screen time at all so far, unless you count the very beginning where there's a little blurb where the gods chat about what he's been up to, and how he's (sadly... so they say...) chilling with Calypso right now while everything is going to pieces in Ithaca. It's the Telemachus show!
- I really like the translation so far. It seems to me to be very readable, and although I haven't really read large parts of it aloud, the bits I've read aloud (or aloud-inside-my-head) have worked well that way too. I had seen some talk about how "Tell me about a complicated man" isn't a good translation of the first line, but as English poetry I think it works.
- Athena/Mentes:
But I am sure that he [Odysseus]
is not yet dead. The wide sea keeps him trapped
upon some island, captured by fierce men
who will not let him go.
Heh, Athena/Mentes, not mentioning Calypso this time, are you?
- Boy, this poet is sure upset about Aegisthus killing Agamemnon. It's come up twice so far in reasonably large sections, and mentioned at least once more besides that.
- Other things that have come up twice: Telemachus saying (to Athena/Mentes in Book 1 and then Nestor in Book 3) that he believes his father won't come back, and the implication that it's not clear whether he's Odysseus's son (first Telemachus says it to Athena/Mentes in Book 1, and then Athena/Mentor says it back to him in Book 2). The first sort of makes sense to me, as it's presumably safer for Telemachus if he asserts that. The second idk, is this some kind of cultural thing? Is the idea that everyone is waiting to see if he turns out like his dad (whether or not, as Athena points out, it says anything about his biological status, as sons don't always turn out like fathers)? Anyway, seems tough on Penelope, either way...
- Poor Penelope, in general. Although we hear about how awesome she is (the whole weaving trick), the only bit of screen time she's gotten is where she asks the singer not to sing songs that remind her of her missing husband, and then her son yells at her. Not cool, Telemachus!
-So far Athena seems pretty reasonable, for a god. Hopefully that continues!
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as opposed to an adaptation/retelling for kids (where the story was told in a linear fashion, i.e. we were following Odysseus from Troy and the Telemachus and Penelope sections didn‘t come until the last fourth or so
Yes, this! I've read retellings just like this, where you got Odysseus's various adventures with Circe and the Cyclops and so on, and then Telemachus and Penelope were at the end. So that was very surprising to me :)
as a true son of Odysseus, he should be able to kick out the suitors and/or deal with them on his lonesome, instead of being essentially still treated as a child by both the suitors and his mother.
Ahhhh that makes a lot of sense.
in the Odyssey, Aigisthus is still seen as the primary killer and Clytemnestra his helper, whereas by the time Aischylus, Sophocles and Euripides sharpen their pen some centuries later, Clytemnestra is the primary killer and Aigisthus just her loverboy, err, loverman sidekick.
Ah right, I remember you said that now! I had temporarily forgotten while reading, but I have read at least synopses of Sophocles and Euripides, so I definitely had in my head that Clytemnestra was the primary killer instead of someone who was just carried along by Aegisthus (though I couldn't remember at the time of reading whether I'd picked that up from modernist feminist retellings -- thinking of Marion Zimmer Bradley's Firebrand here (I know, I know) -- or from retellings that were closer to ancient source material). Anyway, I guess Odysseus should feel lucky that he had Penelope in his corner...
Either way, the reason why this keeps being brought up AGAIN AND AGAIN in this epic, I guess, is that this is the nightmare scenario all the men are afraid of and why Penelope‘s behavior is contrasted with - „their“ woman has found someone else, and instead of being welcomed, they‘re literally stabbed and replaced. (It‘s extremely patriarchal of course, since the lot of the Achaean warriors at Troy all kept sleeping with (or to call it what it is, raping) enslaved captives.)
Also. Dude. It's been literally TWENTY YEARS. (I guess only ten for Clytemnestra, but that's still a very long time!) I think the men would have moved on by then, even if they hadn't been raping the captives!
looking at you too, Aeneas