Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 44

[cahn]

Not only are these posts still going, there is now (more) original research going on in them deciphering and translating letters in archives that apparently no one has bothered to look at before?? (Which has now conclusively exonerated Fritz's valet/chamberlain Fredersdorf from the charge that he was dismissed because of financial irregularities and died shortly thereafter "ashamed of his lost honor," as Wikipedia would have it. I'M JUST SAYING.)

Comments

Re: Letter from Fritz...to Peter?

[selenak]

In conclusion, if I were going to date this, I would tentatively date it to 1727-1728. 1729 is a possibility, but Peter and Fritz were trying to escape from Potsdam in November 1729, and this doesn't seem consistent with that. Of course, Fritz possibly means, "Come visit me so we can talk about things I don't dare put in writing," so 1729 is not ruled out.

I'm with you there. 1729 isn't impossible, but 1728 is more likely. I mean, Fritz had a bad time in Dear Old Wusterhausen in 1727, 1728, 1729, so that criteria doesn#t give much away by itself, but....

However, your point about autumn being Wusterhausen time is an excellent one: for Fritz being especially miserable, for Peter being separated from them (minimal servants--as we saw, there was no place for anyone to sleep anyway!), and for Peter being able to sneak out and come visit.

*nods* The minimum staff factor really makes Wusterhausen the choice over Potsdam palace or the Berlin town palace, so page!Peter is not required to attend FW, and having been there, Wusterhausen is close enough that you can go there on horseback from Berlin and still be back before the next morning (if Peter has to report to whoever is in charge of the pages).

It would be worth cross-checking Stratemann for when Fritz and FW left Wusterhausen in 1727-1729.

That sounds like a good idea but alas I really don't have the time right now. felis? But I did think of another possible way to exclude one of the years - when was it that FW was really really sick in the late 20s? Because presumably once that happened, he'd been moved to Berlin to have more doctors able to attend him?

Re: Letter from Fritz...to Peter?

[felis]

Stratemann's account only starts in 1728, but from FW's letters to Old Dessauer, we have the following dates:

1727: in Wusterhausen from September 2nd until at least October 23rd (which covers both Freilinghausen's visit in September and Francke's in October), then there's an inconvenient gap, next letter is December 30th from Berlin

ETA: By the way, do we know for sure that Peter was already FW's page in 1727?

1728: letters from Wusterhausen September 10th and October 14th (this one includes plans to visit Dessau October 27th), letter from Potsdam November 4th, then back and forth between Berlin and Potsdam until he's in Wusterhausen again December 14th

Stratemann mentions that FW and Fritz returned to Potsdam middle of October and that FW went on a journey to Dessau/Halle/Sachsen afterwards

ETA2: Consulting our chronology tells me that they must have returned pretty much immediately after the Hubertus disaster, which was October 19th. (And then during the following trip, the Antisobres were founded.)

/sidenote: November 24th letter from Berlin has this: You'll be so good as to sent ["Keut"] back to me, he is supposed to go before the two Doctors [?], tell him he has order to order the relay horses. The footnote identifies Keut as Keith, a.k.a. Peter - if so, that would mean he accompanied FW on his journey and stayed behind in Dessau for some reason.

1729: Wusterhausen letters September 30th and October 11th, Stratemann says both FW and Fritz visit Berlin for a marriage October 13th/14th, then back to Wusterhausen, letter from Potsdam October 25th (Stratemann: FW only left Wusterhausen for a couple of days, then went back and he and the rest of the family return mid-November), Wusterhausen letters from November 1st and 16th, Stratemann say FW and Fritz visited Frankfurt on the 14th, then returned to Potsdam and stayed there for weeks, letters are from Potsdam for most of December

Re: Letter from Fritz...to Peter?

[mildred_of_midgard]

I was going to do this myself, but I had forgotten about the Dessauer letters, so I'm glad you were on it!

/sidenote: November 24th letter from Berlin has this: You'll be so good as to sent ["Keut"] back to me, he is supposed to go before the two Doctors [?], tell him he has order to order the relay horses. The footnote identifies Keut as Keith, a.k.a. Peter - if so, that would mean he accompanied FW on his journey and stayed behind in Dessau for some reason.

I remember this from Kloosterhuis, and he's not 100% sure it's Peter, but it may be. There are a bunch of Keiths, after all!

ETA: By the way, do we know for sure that Peter was already FW's page in 1727?

We do not. We don't have a start date. The only pre-1730 mentions we have are the letter you found, and a June 1729 letter from FW asking an officer in Magdeburg to send "your page Keith" to Potsdam. Kloosterhuis says that *if* 1728 Keith refers to Peter, 1729 Keith is probably the younger brother.

But looking through his memoirs, they say what Formey said: that Peter's father introduced him to FW and FW took him as page. They're so short that maybe he elided over working his way up as page from someone else, but if they can be taken at face value, then 1728 Keith is probably Peter, and thus he may have been around in 1728 or even 1727.

(Yes, I will share the memoirs at some point, I'm just trying to do a first pass through the whole thing to get used to the handwriting and to put off the most difficult spots until the end, and I keep getting side-tracked by things like "which Robert Keith is this?" and "what is up with that letter in German anyway?"

letter from Potsdam October 25th (Stratemann: FW only left Wusterhausen for a couple of days, then went back and he and the rest of the family return mid-November), Wusterhausen letters from November 1st and 16th, Stratemann say FW and Fritz visited Frankfurt on the 14th, then returned to Potsdam and stayed there for weeks, letters are from Potsdam for most of December

Yeah, this is what I found, and it's consistent with Fritz already being in Potsdam in November in time to escape. Now, maybe he didn't *know* he'd be returning so soon when he wrote the letter and was depressed at the thought of being stuck there more, but it's more evidence for 1729 being the wrong year.

Re: Letter from Fritz...to Peter?

[mildred_of_midgard]

That sounds like a good idea but alas I really don't have the time right now.

Oh, I had meant me! Cross-checking is a favorite activity for detectives who can read small amounts of Fraktur at a time but not 6 volumes of Nicolai in one week. :P I had already had a quick skim and found much of what Felis did, and made a note to come back to it later.

But I see Felis is not only on it, but has gone above and beyond with remembering the Old Dessauer letters too!

I'm with you there. 1729 isn't impossible, but 1728 is more likely. I mean, Fritz had a bad time in Dear Old Wusterhausen in 1727, 1728, 1729, so that criteria doesn#t give much away by itself, but....

Yeah, 1727 is when he writes from Wusterhausen to Borcke about his melancholy, and 1728 is the infamous forced drunkenness episode.

Now it's possible he hit the breaking point in 1729, this letter reflects that, and when he came back to Potsdam he was like, "Peter, we gotta get out of here now!" But it doesn't sound like someone who's already planning to run away and has an escape route planned with the person he's writing to.