Between ruling the country and being emotionally available to one messed up monarch 24/7, Moltke must have had his plate more than full.
*And* the Academy of Arts, *and* the Asiatic Company--he reminds me of Fredersdorf! A finger in every pie.
I think what saved him was that he wasn't a micromanager or autocrat, that he was willing to let the committees of other nobles do most of the work, and his job was to review their write-ups and guide Frederik in making a decision. Still a lot of work! But not Fritzian levels. That's also, as you and various authors have noted, partly how he managed to hang onto his position: he was a good team player.
Also, re the 24/7 thing, the good news is that after more research, I've come to the tentative conclusion that at least during most of Frederik's reign, Moltke lived with his (Weasley) family and only joined Frederik at the palace in the morning, after breakfast. During the crown prince days, he slept in the same room or next door to Frederik, and when Frederik was dying, he slept in the same room, but other than that, I suspect he had some alone time/family time. Which might explain why he lasted so long (also relevant to your other comment, which I'll reply to).
This also makes me think that a lot of the apology letters might be pre-emptive, when Frederik woke up realizing what he'd done and frantically apologizing in writing *before* he got the silent treatment. Though I still have some memories of at least a few being "Please talk to me!", I would need to do a closer reading to see if that holds up.
And most neglected children aren't going to love the guy their neglectful father was crazy about.
Ding ding ding! Because I got to the part in Moltke's memoirs yesterday where he talks about his dismissal, and you get one guess who he blames.
...Dun dun dun...
The evil advisors!
And I was like, "Moltke, I like you well enough from this very safe distance, but I know what Christian's childhood was like. His father ignored him, his governor abused him, and you did nothing about either of these things. In fact, you may even have been responsible for appointing the governor, I have no idea. But Holm or Oettinger said that the governor said that he had never once spoken to Frederik, so...I don't see why Christian *would* like you."
Moltke: But dying Frederik specifically told Christian to be especially nice to me, because I had served him faithfully and well since he was 7!
Me: Frederik...the neglectful and probably abusive father? Look, I respect that you didn't drop Frederik like a hot potato as soon as it became clear he was dying, but there's only so much you can expect from the abused child who got no attention from either of you!
Another unstable prince to care for would have been just too much.
Absolutely, and there's no guarantee that he would have clicked or been successful with the other unstable prince, even if he'd been willing to give it his best effort. Frederik and Christian seem to have had very different mental health issues and very different personalities.
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Of course he does. It's really the go to explanation through the centuries.
Hervey: Not for me. I'm quite happy blaming Fritz of Wales for everything personally in my memoirs. And in my letters, especially for dumping me.
Leopold: I was also happy to blame Joseph, personally. I mean, I also bitched about the low company he kept on the one hand and those bigotted high born ladies on the other, but "Joseph is the worst!" still was my go to explanation in my la familiglia rant about everything he did wrong.
Selena: Which didn't include dumping you, so you don't count.
I don't see why Christian *would* like you."
Me neither. Moltke should have seen this coming. Perhaps did, but doesn't want to say so in the memoirs, because that's not the convention. He'd have to admit to the neglect and abuse first.
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Hervey: Not for me. I'm quite happy blaming Fritz of Wales for everything personally in my memoirs. And in my letters, especially for dumping me.
Leopold: I was also happy to blame Joseph, personally. I mean, I also bitched about the low company he kept on the one hand and those bigotted high born ladies on the other, but "Joseph is the worst!" still was my go to explanation in my la familiglia rant about everything he did wrong.
Selena: Which didn't include dumping you, so you don't count.
HAHAHAHAHA!
Moltke should have seen this coming. Perhaps did, but doesn't want to say so in the memoirs, because that's not the convention. He'd have to admit to the neglect and abuse first.
IDK, adults, especially not-super-self-aware adults, often have a very different idea as to how kids ought to feel about things vs how they actually feel...
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
IDK, adults, especially not-super-self-aware adults, often have a very different idea as to how kids ought to feel about things vs how they actually feel...
Yeah, I would be shocked if Moltke was consciously aware of how bad and also how unjustified it was. To the extent that he was paying attention, he probably wrote it off as "disciplining a kid who needs discipline." Especially if young Christian's mental health issues were manifesting as erratic behavior already. :/
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Hervey: Not for me. I'm quite happy blaming Fritz of Wales for everything personally in my memoirs. And in my letters, especially for dumping me.
Leopold: I was also happy to blame Joseph, personally. I mean, I also bitched about the low company he kept on the one hand and those bigotted high born ladies on the other, but "Joseph is the worst!" still was my go to explanation in my la familiglia rant about everything he did wrong.
Hahaha!
Me neither. Moltke should have seen this coming. Perhaps did, but doesn't want to say so in the memoirs, because that's not the convention. He'd have to admit to the neglect and abuse first.
Moltke admit to something? Never!
As I said to Cahn, I doubt he admitted it to himself consciously. But he might have seen this coming in the sense that he might very well have known he didn't have a bond with Christian and Christian was not a fan. As you say, politically powerful favorites to consecutive monarchs are very rare, and Moltke must have known this.
Although sometimes the favorite survives the transition to the new regime, even if he's not the *favorite* of the new monarch, like Mazarin. I suspect it helped Louis's acceptance of him that he wasn't an emotional favorite of Dad's, just a political colleague, and he was the emotional favorite of *Mom*. And of course the regency: Christian came to power when he was 17, old enough to reign in his own name.
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Christian came to power when he was 17, old enough to reign in his own name.
Yes, that makes a big difference. Louis XIV was literally a child.
Still, it could have gone worse for Moltke. At least he wasn't banished, or stripped of his earthly possessions or something like that.
(Heinrich: Or despite NOT having been a favourite of the previous King basically told he should stay in retirement and that his services were unwanted for anything but reading tips. Grrr. Argh.)
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Louis XIII appointed him at a dying Richelieu's request and himself died within a year, so I don't think kid Louis XIV saw Mazarin in a context to his late father, but, as you say, very much in a context with his mother.
I'd forgotten it was within a year, though I did remember he wasn't Louis XIII's favorite, just "a" favorite of the previous regime and could easily have been dismissed when Louis XIV came of age.
Still, it could have gone worse for Moltke. At least he wasn't banished, or stripped of his earthly possessions or something like that.
Very true. It went: "dimissed without a pension, restored, dismissed without a pension, pension eventually granted."
(Heinrich: Or despite NOT having been a favourite of the previous King basically told he should stay in retirement and that his services were unwanted for anything but reading tips. Grrr. Argh.)
Aww. Poor Heinrich! Well, salon loves you, Heinrich!
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
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Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
*And* the Academy of Arts, *and* the Asiatic Company--he reminds me of Fredersdorf! A finger in every pie.
I think what saved him was that he wasn't a micromanager or autocrat, that he was willing to let the committees of other nobles do most of the work, and his job was to review their write-ups and guide Frederik in making a decision. Still a lot of work! But not Fritzian levels. That's also, as you and various authors have noted, partly how he managed to hang onto his position: he was a good team player.
Also, re the 24/7 thing, the good news is that after more research, I've come to the tentative conclusion that at least during most of Frederik's reign, Moltke lived with his (Weasley) family and only joined Frederik at the palace in the morning, after breakfast. During the crown prince days, he slept in the same room or next door to Frederik, and when Frederik was dying, he slept in the same room, but other than that, I suspect he had some alone time/family time. Which might explain why he lasted so long (also relevant to your other comment, which I'll reply to).
This also makes me think that a lot of the apology letters might be pre-emptive, when Frederik woke up realizing what he'd done and frantically apologizing in writing *before* he got the silent treatment. Though I still have some memories of at least a few being "Please talk to me!", I would need to do a closer reading to see if that holds up.
And most neglected children aren't going to love the guy their neglectful father was crazy about.
Ding ding ding! Because I got to the part in Moltke's memoirs yesterday where he talks about his dismissal, and you get one guess who he blames.
...Dun dun dun...
The evil advisors!
And I was like, "Moltke, I like you well enough from this very safe distance, but I know what Christian's childhood was like. His father ignored him, his governor abused him, and you did nothing about either of these things. In fact, you may even have been responsible for appointing the governor, I have no idea. But Holm or Oettinger said that the governor said that he had never once spoken to Frederik, so...I don't see why Christian *would* like you."
Moltke: But dying Frederik specifically told Christian to be especially nice to me, because I had served him faithfully and well since he was 7!
Me: Frederik...the neglectful and probably abusive father? Look, I respect that you didn't drop Frederik like a hot potato as soon as it became clear he was dying, but there's only so much you can expect from the abused child who got no attention from either of you!
Another unstable prince to care for would have been just too much.
Absolutely, and there's no guarantee that he would have clicked or been successful with the other unstable prince, even if he'd been willing to give it his best effort. Frederik and Christian seem to have had very different mental health issues and very different personalities.
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Of course he does. It's really the go to explanation through the centuries.
Hervey: Not for me. I'm quite happy blaming Fritz of Wales for everything personally in my memoirs. And in my letters, especially for dumping me.
Leopold: I was also happy to blame Joseph, personally. I mean, I also bitched about the low company he kept on the one hand and those bigotted high born ladies on the other, but "Joseph is the worst!" still was my go to explanation in my la familiglia rant about everything he did wrong.
Selena: Which didn't include dumping you, so you don't count.
I don't see why Christian *would* like you."
Me neither. Moltke should have seen this coming. Perhaps did, but doesn't want to say so in the memoirs, because that's not the convention. He'd have to admit to the neglect and abuse first.
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Hervey: Not for me. I'm quite happy blaming Fritz of Wales for everything personally in my memoirs. And in my letters, especially for dumping me.
Leopold: I was also happy to blame Joseph, personally. I mean, I also bitched about the low company he kept on the one hand and those bigotted high born ladies on the other, but "Joseph is the worst!" still was my go to explanation in my la familiglia rant about everything he did wrong.
Selena: Which didn't include dumping you, so you don't count.
HAHAHAHAHA!
Moltke should have seen this coming. Perhaps did, but doesn't want to say so in the memoirs, because that's not the convention. He'd have to admit to the neglect and abuse first.
IDK, adults, especially not-super-self-aware adults, often have a very different idea as to how kids ought to feel about things vs how they actually feel...
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Yeah, I would be shocked if Moltke was consciously aware of how bad and also how unjustified it was. To the extent that he was paying attention, he probably wrote it off as "disciplining a kid who needs discipline." Especially if young Christian's mental health issues were manifesting as erratic behavior already. :/
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Leopold: I was also happy to blame Joseph, personally. I mean, I also bitched about the low company he kept on the one hand and those bigotted high born ladies on the other, but "Joseph is the worst!" still was my go to explanation in my la familiglia rant about everything he did wrong.
Hahaha!
Me neither. Moltke should have seen this coming. Perhaps did, but doesn't want to say so in the memoirs, because that's not the convention. He'd have to admit to the neglect and abuse first.
Moltke admit to something? Never!
As I said to Cahn, I doubt he admitted it to himself consciously. But he might have seen this coming in the sense that he might very well have known he didn't have a bond with Christian and Christian was not a fan. As you say, politically powerful favorites to consecutive monarchs are very rare, and Moltke must have known this.
Although sometimes the favorite survives the transition to the new regime, even if he's not the *favorite* of the new monarch, like Mazarin. I suspect it helped Louis's acceptance of him that he wasn't an emotional favorite of Dad's, just a political colleague, and he was the emotional favorite of *Mom*. And of course the regency: Christian came to power when he was 17, old enough to reign in his own name.
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
Now, Mazarin able to win Anne's favour despite being Cardinal Richelieu's chosen protegé, given the long time Anne & Richelieu hostility, that is a rare case indeed.
Christian came to power when he was 17, old enough to reign in his own name.
Yes, that makes a big difference. Louis XIV was literally a child.
Still, it could have gone worse for Moltke. At least he wasn't banished, or stripped of his earthly possessions or something like that.
(Heinrich: Or despite NOT having been a favourite of the previous King basically told he should stay in retirement and that his services were unwanted for anything but reading tips. Grrr. Argh.)
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke
I'd forgotten it was within a year, though I did remember he wasn't Louis XIII's favorite, just "a" favorite of the previous regime and could easily have been dismissed when Louis XIV came of age.
Still, it could have gone worse for Moltke. At least he wasn't banished, or stripped of his earthly possessions or something like that.
Very true. It went: "dimissed without a pension, restored, dismissed without a pension, pension eventually granted."
(Heinrich: Or despite NOT having been a favourite of the previous King basically told he should stay in retirement and that his services were unwanted for anything but reading tips. Grrr. Argh.)
Aww. Poor Heinrich! Well, salon loves you, Heinrich!
Re: Danish kings and their favorites: Frederik V and Moltke