after he goes to university with his brother and appears briefly in the Adresskalendar circa 1764, he disappears off the map
I've been wondering if the fact that he doesn't show up in the "heir" column of Ariane's death record means that he's dead for sure, or if he would have been omitted there either way because he wasn't the oldest. No idea. I guess there is the possibility that he died in 1764/65 - maybe even explaining why his brother doesn't show up anywhere in 1766 - but if it happened in Berlin, I feel like Lehndorff might have mentioned it. Hm.
By the way, regarding the Friesland connection - I've since turned up this book, which unfortunately only gives the smallest snippets in the google preview, but I've extracted the following info: She [Oriana Luise] inherited the dominion [Herrlichkeit] Jennelt from her siblings [might make sense since none of her brothers had kids] and left it to her son, the Prussian Geh. Legationsrat and Chamberlain von Keith. After his death in 1822 this old Knyphausen-property reverted back to the family. So this would suggest that Carl Ernst Reinhard was the owner of Jennelt for a bit, although I'm still a bit skeptical re: female inheritance. (The book also briefly mentions Peter and has a chapter on Friedrich Ernst, but as I found the parts where it talks about their deaths, I don't think there are any burial places mentioned.)
I've been wondering if the fact that he doesn't show up in the "heir" column of Ariane's death record means that he's dead for sure, or if he would have been omitted there either way because he wasn't the oldest. No idea. I guess there is the possibility that he died in 1764/65
Yeah, I've wondered that too. It's possible he entered foreign service and ended up far away, maybe in the colonies somewhere, but it's entirely likely he died circa 1764/65. I've tried searching his name and those years in hopes of finding a death year, but no joy. We're getting into really obscure territory with him, though
although I'm still a bit skeptical re: female inheritance.
Could happen, though; didn't Fredersdorf specify female inheritance in his will?
(The book also briefly mentions Peter and has a chapter on Friedrich Ernst
I see it's University of California, which means my friend the Royal Patron should have access, but since he can't download, only screenshot, and doesn't know even as much German I do, asking him to screenshot an entire chapter would be a bit much.
I managed to read the entire Peter part on page 157, though, due to cunning use of snippet view, and I don't see anything about his burial place, no.
But Jennelt, that's interesting! I definitely ran across that when looking up Knyphausen burial places per selenak's suggestions. There's a well-preserved vault in the church, but my German listening comprehension isn't quite up to the tour. (I also concluded, once I realized where it was located, that it was unlikely Peter, dying in Berlin during wartime, would be shipped all the way out to East Frisia to be buried with his wife's family, so I didn't put a whole lot of effort into following that lead.) But if Carl Ernst Reinhard was lord of the manor, he just *might* have been buried there.
Could happen, though; didn't Fredersdorf specify female inheritance in his will?
I think so? As did Knoblesdorff of course, but I feel like an old family like the Knyphausen's might have their own rules. But hey, it's perfectly possible if the chronicle says so and since, as I said, none of Ariane's brothers had kids.
(Speaking of inheritances - I checked the Brandenburg archive where Engel found Knobelsdorff's testament, just in case there was a digitized version. There wasn't of course, just the database entry, but I found some other things listed: Peter's mother-in-law's will from 1750/51, four different last will entries for Carl Ernst Reinhard v. Keith, chamberlain (1x 1806 / 3x 1812), and: lots of Zernikow related documents, including the deed of gift from June 1740, and a copy of Fredersdorf's will with additional documents about inheritance negotiations - there seem to have been some disputes (even without an unlikely Deschampes claim in the mix :P), which got settled in 1760. None of these are digitized, but still interesting to know.)
But if Carl Ernst Reinhard was lord of the manor, he just *might* have been buried there.
But only after Ariane and all her brothers were dead themselves, decades later - and since she herself was buried in Berlin, I'd say the chances are slim to none that Peter wasn't.
I feel like an old family like the Knyphausen's might have their own rules. But hey, it's perfectly possible if the chronicle says so and since, as I said, none of Ariane's brothers had kids.
Yeah, I mean, Wust definitely went to the first cousin in the male Katte line, not to any of Hans Heinrich's daughters and their kids.
Archive findings: neat!
I'd say the chances are slim to none that Peter wasn't.
Yeah, agreed. I'm still curious where in Berlin! (But it's awesome that we found Ariane. :D)
By the way, I just watched the short vid you linked and there isn't anything immediately useful for us, as it only talks about people who lived in the 17th century and were buried there.
That said, still interesting, especially with some more googling afterwards! Apparently, people for the longest time assumed that the most elaborate and splendid coffin in the crypt had to be Dodo (I.) v. Knyphausen's, who was a big deal during the Thirty Years War and all - but it wasn't! It belonged to a woman, his daughter-in-law, called Occa Johanna, who became Oberhofmeisterin of the Swedish Queen, kept an all-female salon to discuss theology, and wrote a cookbook, among other things. She was the last person to be buried in the Jennelt crypt, so everybody who died afterwards was buried in a different church called Bargebur. Her son was another Dodo (II.), who was in Prussian service under great-grandpa FW, the Great Elector, as well as under F1. He also was Friedrich Ernst's dad, i.e. Ariane's grandfather. His wife, Hedwig Orianna (which seems to be the Frisian family spelling of the name), is buried in Bargebur, as is one of Friedrich Ernst's brothers, Wilhelm, who died in 1695, at only 19 years old, during the Nine Years War.
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Re: FamilySearch
I've been wondering if the fact that he doesn't show up in the "heir" column of Ariane's death record means that he's dead for sure, or if he would have been omitted there either way because he wasn't the oldest. No idea. I guess there is the possibility that he died in 1764/65 - maybe even explaining why his brother doesn't show up anywhere in 1766 - but if it happened in Berlin, I feel like Lehndorff might have mentioned it. Hm.
By the way, regarding the Friesland connection - I've since turned up this book, which unfortunately only gives the smallest snippets in the google preview, but I've extracted the following info: She [Oriana Luise] inherited the dominion [Herrlichkeit] Jennelt from her siblings [might make sense since none of her brothers had kids] and left it to her son, the Prussian Geh. Legationsrat and Chamberlain von Keith. After his death in 1822 this old Knyphausen-property reverted back to the family. So this would suggest that Carl Ernst Reinhard was the owner of Jennelt for a bit, although I'm still a bit skeptical re: female inheritance.
(The book also briefly mentions Peter and has a chapter on Friedrich Ernst, but as I found the parts where it talks about their deaths, I don't think there are any burial places mentioned.)
Re: FamilySearch
Yeah, I've wondered that too. It's possible he entered foreign service and ended up far away, maybe in the colonies somewhere, but it's entirely likely he died circa 1764/65. I've tried searching his name and those years in hopes of finding a death year, but no joy. We're getting into really obscure territory with him, though
although I'm still a bit skeptical re: female inheritance.
Could happen, though; didn't Fredersdorf specify female inheritance in his will?
(The book also briefly mentions Peter and has a chapter on Friedrich Ernst
I see it's University of California, which means my friend the Royal Patron should have access, but since he can't download, only screenshot, and doesn't know even as much German I do, asking him to screenshot an entire chapter would be a bit much.
I managed to read the entire Peter part on page 157, though, due to cunning use of snippet view, and I don't see anything about his burial place, no.
But Jennelt, that's interesting! I definitely ran across that when looking up Knyphausen burial places per
Re: FamilySearch
I think so? As did Knoblesdorff of course, but I feel like an old family like the Knyphausen's might have their own rules. But hey, it's perfectly possible if the chronicle says so and since, as I said, none of Ariane's brothers had kids.
(Speaking of inheritances - I checked the Brandenburg archive where Engel found Knobelsdorff's testament, just in case there was a digitized version. There wasn't of course, just the database entry, but I found some other things listed: Peter's mother-in-law's will from 1750/51, four different last will entries for Carl Ernst Reinhard v. Keith, chamberlain (1x 1806 / 3x 1812), and: lots of Zernikow related documents, including the deed of gift from June 1740, and a copy of Fredersdorf's will with additional documents about inheritance negotiations - there seem to have been some disputes (even without an unlikely Deschampes claim in the mix :P), which got settled in 1760. None of these are digitized, but still interesting to know.)
But if Carl Ernst Reinhard was lord of the manor, he just *might* have been buried there.
But only after Ariane and all her brothers were dead themselves, decades later - and since she herself was buried in Berlin, I'd say the chances are slim to none that Peter wasn't.
Re: FamilySearch
Yeah, I mean, Wust definitely went to the first cousin in the male Katte line, not to any of Hans Heinrich's daughters and their kids.
Archive findings: neat!
I'd say the chances are slim to none that Peter wasn't.
Yeah, agreed. I'm still curious where in Berlin! (But it's awesome that we found Ariane. :D)
Re: FamilySearch
That said, still interesting, especially with some more googling afterwards! Apparently, people for the longest time assumed that the most elaborate and splendid coffin in the crypt had to be Dodo (I.) v. Knyphausen's, who was a big deal during the Thirty Years War and all - but it wasn't! It belonged to a woman, his daughter-in-law, called Occa Johanna, who became Oberhofmeisterin of the Swedish Queen, kept an all-female salon to discuss theology, and wrote a cookbook, among other things. She was the last person to be buried in the Jennelt crypt, so everybody who died afterwards was buried in a different church called Bargebur. Her son was another Dodo (II.), who was in Prussian service under great-grandpa FW, the Great Elector, as well as under F1. He also was Friedrich Ernst's dad, i.e. Ariane's grandfather. His wife, Hedwig Orianna (which seems to be the Frisian family spelling of the name), is buried in Bargebur, as is one of Friedrich Ernst's brothers, Wilhelm, who died in 1695, at only 19 years old, during the Nine Years War.