Well, good, I'm glad that despite the inevitable historical boo-boos, it's got information you had been looking for!
but I'll forgive Exner for not knowing that since it's outside her main subject.
Alas, rheinsberg did not exist in 2010 as a reference for dissertation writers. ;)
More seriously, I noticed she's in the department of music, not the department of history.
Which reminds me, one of these very busy days maybe you or me should collect all the Austrian marriage intrigue quotes together with Katte's interrogation statements for a separate Rheinsberg entry to demonstrate something which no biographer has clued into about one of Katte's motivations.
Us and our original research. :D I've put it on my list.
She says that Ledebur says Fredersdorf met Fritz some time before 1734 when visiting Frankfurt an der Oder with his father, and is basing that on Manger. I don't know about Ledebur, but I do know about Manger, who does not mention "with his father" nor "before 1734" at all but has the student Christmas concert for Fritz of 1731 in Frankfurt an der Oder variation
I noticed!
Okay, so I checked out Ledebur, and I think she's misreading it (unless my German sucks): it says that as Fritz was traveling through Frankfurt a.d.O. (no date), there was a concert and he met Fredersdorf, liked him, summoned him the next day, and asked Schwerin for him. Then when Fritz and FW were traveling to the Rhine in 1734 (this is the Philipsburg campaign, cahn), Fredersdorf was taken along, and acquitted himself so well that Fritz made him valet and gave him Zernikow (either chronological nonsense on Ledebur's part or very poor German reading on my part). Now, I have read that Fredersdorf worked his way up, from lackey and musician to valet (and musician), so if he was only valet in 1734, that makes as much sense as anything (notice how cahn and I both played with his job role in Christmas 1733), but, if that's riding on mid-19th century Ledebur's account, then I don't consider him reliable enough for that.
Also of interest: Fredersdorf was a musician and son of a musician, but because he was so tall and well-built/well-grown? (gut gewachsen), he had to serve in the army!
Also, he was so intelligent that his 1750 trip to Paris, which was supposed to be for his health, was rumored to be a diplomatic mission! I thought he went for art purposes, but given Fritz and Fredersdorf's relationship, their secrecy and Fritz's paranoia, and Fritz's disastrous Algarotti mission, maybe he said, "Go and check out some art for me, and while you're there, keep your eyes and ears open." But to be clear, Ledebur isn't saying he was sent on a diplomatic mission, just that there were rumors to this effect, which I totally believe!
Also, reports that Fritz was supposed to have had tears in his eyes when he got the report of Fredersdorf's death in Dresden (was he in Dresden? I would have to check, I thought he was in Silesia, but he did move around a lot). I mean, I believe he did! I just want to know our source.
Ledebur's footnote says this is mostly based on Manger, but reports König's version as well.
Will get this in the library later today! (Note that I am reading the German quickly on an empty stomach, so accuracy may be worse than usual. ;) Otoh, the font is surprisingly not terrible!)
Re: the Bach dedication - that's a slight misreading of both Exner on your part and possibly by Exner.
That's totally what I thought it said, so thank you for clarifying the German for me. Still cool!
And that also gives us a glimpse at Fredersdorf's post 1740 feelings about music in addition to having to hire and fire musicians for Fritz.
Tears in his eyes: that's from Manger, though I'm not sure Manger says "Dresden"; in any event, Fritz wasn't there, he was in Breslau. With Amalie visiting. Which I happen to know. (Lehndorff writes about her visiting Fritz there in January. Winter HQ 1758: definitely BRESLAU.) As to who Manger might have it from: well, Fritz' idea of keeping him busy in the later 7 Years War was to let him teach the younger pages. (He even mentions a von Pirch as his favourite student, but it can't have been Carel since Manger says his von Pirch later went into French service, and Carel died.) So maybe from them?
acquitted himself so well that Fritz made him valet and gave him Zernikow (either chronological nonsense on Ledebur's part
Definitely that, as Exner claims it as well, and yeah, no. We have the 1740 dcoument (with all of Fritz' shiny new titles, remember), since Fahlenkamp thankfully reprinted it. Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
Speaking of rumors about Fredersdorf's Paris trip, something I didn't tell you is that Manger says there were rumors he met Louis XIV there. Which he doesn't believe, but there were rumors. Good on you for not believing them, Manger, what with Le Roi Soleil being dead since decades and Fredersdorf not into necromancy...
Also of interest: Fredersdorf was a musician and son of a musician, but because he was so tall and well-built/well-grown? (gut gewachsen), he had to serve in the army!
Well that was in Fahlenkamp as well. Again, I say, he so lucked out FW didn't recruit him as his personal oboist!
Tears in his eyes: that's from Manger, though I'm not sure Manger says "Dresden"; in any event, Fritz wasn't there, he was in Breslau. With Amalie visiting. Which I happen to know.
I know you know! But what I don't know is whether Fritz made a quick trip to Dresden while in winter quarters even if he was staying in Silesia. (Which he was doing because he had just taken Breslau after Leuthen, something I have reason to know about myself. ;) Breslau, which I remind you, had to be retaken because it just been surrendered by letter-forwarding, soon-to-be-cashiered cousin Katte.)
Speaking of cashiering, it in no way excuses Fritz's behavior toward AW, nor does it negate the psychological aspects of militarily crushing Dad's favorite son, the one he thought had so much military promise, but the more I read, the more I see the English cutting off the heads of admirals and generals who didn't engage with the enemy when the government thought they should have. I know Voltaire had satirized this in Candide (inventing the phrase "pour encourager les autres"), but I've now seen two English generals lose their heads in the War of the Spanish Succession too, fifty years earlier. Now, if Voltaire could see that this is outrageous, I'm not excusing Fritz, but when he said, "I would be justified in having your head cut off," there is contemporary military precedent. (The fraternal aspect and their joint FW history is what makes it so special.)
(He even mentions a von Pirch as his favourite student, but it can't have been Carel since Manger says his von Pirch later went into French service, and Carel died.
Also because Fredersdorf outlived Carel by a few months, if Carel died in 1757. But he had brothers, so who knows.
We have the 1740 dcoument (with all of Fritz' shiny new titles, remember)
I remember!
Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
No. What I also can't imagine is 1730s Fritz being stupid enough to do it. :P
"But Dad! He's so frugal! He's making it thrive! There's mulberry trees and everything. And he's tall and played the oboe in the military! Wouldn't you give him an estate??" :'D
Good on you for not believing them, Manger, what with Le Roi Soleil being dead since decades and Fredersdorf not into necromancy...
Lol! Um, any chance of a typo? I could see rumors that he met Louis XV, and people speculating about the political import of that meeting.
Well that was in Fahlenkamp as well.
Argh, when will my copy come so I can read it myself and remember what's in it? :P
Again, I say, he so lucked out FW didn't recruit him as his personal oboist!
Exactly the context in which I was reporting this!
Exner continues to be informative, but every now and then keeps including little mistakes which make me hickup. She seems to think Fredersdorf was actually one of the students in Frankfurt an der Oder, and got his musical training at college there. (As opposed to Dad the town piper.) And then she observes that Fritz' Rheinsberg capella is lacking an oboist and that "it is every unlikely that either Frederick himself or Fredersdorf were trained in playing the oboe".
Otoh, her pointing out that unlike Fritz' pre 1740 friends, his Rheinsberg musicians, as much as he'd occasionally bitch about them being an unruly lot in letters to Wilhelmine, survived the transition to the King Fritz era completely is very true. But no sooner do I nod that there's a sentence like her statement that Fritz, unlike many other kings, "did not give cabinet jobs to his drinking and hunting companions". Considering she keeps quoting from Thomas Carlyle and he's bound to have included that factoid in his many volumed biography, you'd think she knew that Fritz didn't have hunting companions. ;) (Also, there's the perfect Fritz quote expressing the same basic idea ready - his explanation as to why he doesn't want to talk politics with Voltaire: "That would be like drinking tea with one's mistress."
Cutting of heads: I hear you, and agree that it's the fraternal aspect and their shared FW history that makes it special. And, I might add, the following year. There's a reason why so many biographies tend to flash forward from Bautzen (casheering) to Oranienburg (AW dying) a year later, and don't mention the long year in between. Fritz had been pissed off at Schmettau, too, but Schmettau didn't get "it's your fault if we lose this war and all die!" and "the only thing you're fit to command is a seraglio" type of letters.
Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
No. What I also can't imagine is 1730s Fritz being stupid enough to do it. :P
LOL, agreed. Also, I dimly seem to recall Fritz didn't even own Zernikow until 1737 - he bought it then, it wasn't crown property but privately owned by a Colonel something or the other.
Pity lots of little historical details are off, but we'll forgive her.
"it is every unlikely that either Frederick himself or Fredersdorf were trained in playing the oboe".
*hiccup* Though I'm sure that's what they told FW!
LOL, agreed. Also, I dimly seem to recall Fritz didn't even own Zernikow until 1737 - he bought it then, it wasn't crown property but privately owned by a Colonel something or the other.
Good memory!
The Zernikow website provides the history of the estate before and after. It was chronically mismanaged and in debt through F1 and FW's reigns, and often changed its owner accordingly. Fritz bought it as Crown Prince in 1737 from the previous owner, a Lieutenant de Beville (who himself had bought it in 1731), and at first rented it to six citizens in the area. In 1740, when he ascended to the throne, he ended the contracts and gave it to Fredersdorf, who despite all his work for Fritz found time to completely reorganize the estate.
ETA:
Considering she keeps quoting from Thomas Carlyle and he's bound to have included that factoid in his many volumed biography, you'd think she knew that Fritz didn't have hunting companions. ;)
Or drinking companions. (Watered-down champagne doesn't count.) But let's be real: who reads the many volumed Carlyle biography in toto? Because I haven't, and as far as I know, you haven't. :P felis? Cover-to-cover?
But you should know that for other reasons, if your dissertation is on Fritz.
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Music diss
but I'll forgive Exner for not knowing that since it's outside her main subject.
Alas,
More seriously, I noticed she's in the department of music, not the department of history.
Which reminds me, one of these very busy days maybe you or me should collect all the Austrian marriage intrigue quotes together with Katte's interrogation statements for a separate Rheinsberg entry to demonstrate something which no biographer has clued into about one of Katte's motivations.
Us and our original research. :D I've put it on my list.
She says that Ledebur says Fredersdorf met Fritz some time before 1734 when visiting Frankfurt an der Oder with his father, and is basing that on Manger. I don't know about Ledebur, but I do know about Manger, who does not mention "with his father" nor "before 1734" at all but has the student Christmas concert for Fritz of 1731 in Frankfurt an der Oder variation
I noticed!
Okay, so I checked out Ledebur, and I think she's misreading it (unless my German sucks): it says that as Fritz was traveling through Frankfurt a.d.O. (no date), there was a concert and he met Fredersdorf, liked him, summoned him the next day, and asked Schwerin for him. Then when Fritz and FW were traveling to the Rhine in 1734 (this is the Philipsburg campaign, cahn), Fredersdorf was taken along, and acquitted himself so well that Fritz made him valet and gave him Zernikow (either chronological nonsense on Ledebur's part or very poor German reading on my part). Now, I have read that Fredersdorf worked his way up, from lackey and musician to valet (and musician), so if he was only valet in 1734, that makes as much sense as anything (notice how
Also of interest: Fredersdorf was a musician and son of a musician, but because he was so tall and well-built/well-grown? (gut gewachsen), he had to serve in the army!
Also, he was so intelligent that his 1750 trip to Paris, which was supposed to be for his health, was rumored to be a diplomatic mission! I thought he went for art purposes, but given Fritz and Fredersdorf's relationship, their secrecy and Fritz's paranoia, and Fritz's disastrous Algarotti mission, maybe he said, "Go and check out some art for me, and while you're there, keep your eyes and ears open." But to be clear, Ledebur isn't saying he was sent on a diplomatic mission, just that there were rumors to this effect, which I totally believe!
Also, reports that Fritz was supposed to have had tears in his eyes when he got the report of Fredersdorf's death in Dresden (was he in Dresden? I would have to check, I thought he was in Silesia, but he did move around a lot). I mean, I believe he did! I just want to know our source.
Ledebur's footnote says this is mostly based on Manger, but reports König's version as well.
Will get this in the library later today! (Note that I am reading the German quickly on an empty stomach, so accuracy may be worse than usual. ;) Otoh, the font is surprisingly not terrible!)
Re: the Bach dedication - that's a slight misreading of both Exner on your part and possibly by Exner.
That's totally what I thought it said, so thank you for clarifying the German for me. Still cool!
And that also gives us a glimpse at Fredersdorf's post 1740 feelings about music in addition to having to hire and fire musicians for Fritz.
Yesss. <3
Re: Music diss
acquitted himself so well that Fritz made him valet and gave him Zernikow (either chronological nonsense on Ledebur's part
Definitely that, as Exner claims it as well, and yeah, no. We have the 1740 dcoument (with all of Fritz' shiny new titles, remember), since Fahlenkamp thankfully reprinted it. Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
Speaking of rumors about Fredersdorf's Paris trip, something I didn't tell you is that Manger says there were rumors he met Louis XIV there. Which he doesn't believe, but there were rumors. Good on you for not believing them, Manger, what with Le Roi Soleil being dead since decades and Fredersdorf not into necromancy...
Also of interest: Fredersdorf was a musician and son of a musician, but because he was so tall and well-built/well-grown? (gut gewachsen), he had to serve in the army!
Well that was in Fahlenkamp as well. Again, I say, he so lucked out FW didn't recruit him as his personal oboist!
Re: Music diss
I know you know! But what I don't know is whether Fritz made a quick trip to Dresden while in winter quarters even if he was staying in Silesia. (Which he was doing because he had just taken Breslau after Leuthen, something I have reason to know about myself. ;) Breslau, which I remind you, had to be retaken because it just been surrendered by letter-forwarding, soon-to-be-cashiered cousin Katte.)
Speaking of cashiering, it in no way excuses Fritz's behavior toward AW, nor does it negate the psychological aspects of militarily crushing Dad's favorite son, the one he thought had so much military promise, but the more I read, the more I see the English cutting off the heads of admirals and generals who didn't engage with the enemy when the government thought they should have. I know Voltaire had satirized this in Candide (inventing the phrase "pour encourager les autres"), but I've now seen two English generals lose their heads in the War of the Spanish Succession too, fifty years earlier. Now, if Voltaire could see that this is outrageous, I'm not excusing Fritz, but when he said, "I would be justified in having your head cut off," there is contemporary military precedent. (The fraternal aspect and their joint FW history is what makes it so special.)
(He even mentions a von Pirch as his favourite student, but it can't have been Carel since Manger says his von Pirch later went into French service, and Carel died.
Also because Fredersdorf outlived Carel by a few months, if Carel died in 1757. But he had brothers, so who knows.
We have the 1740 dcoument (with all of Fritz' shiny new titles, remember)
I remember!
Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
No. What I also can't imagine is 1730s Fritz being stupid enough to do it. :P
"But Dad! He's so frugal! He's making it thrive! There's mulberry trees and everything. And he's tall and played the oboe in the military! Wouldn't you give him an estate??" :'D
Good on you for not believing them, Manger, what with Le Roi Soleil being dead since decades and Fredersdorf not into necromancy...
Lol! Um, any chance of a typo? I could see rumors that he met Louis XV, and people speculating about the political import of that meeting.
Well that was in Fahlenkamp as well.
Argh, when will my copy come so I can read it myself and remember what's in it? :P
Again, I say, he so lucked out FW didn't recruit him as his personal oboist!
Exactly the context in which I was reporting this!
Re: Music diss
Otoh, her pointing out that unlike Fritz' pre 1740 friends, his Rheinsberg musicians, as much as he'd occasionally bitch about them being an unruly lot in letters to Wilhelmine, survived the transition to the King Fritz era completely is very true. But no sooner do I nod that there's a sentence like her statement that Fritz, unlike many other kings, "did not give cabinet jobs to his drinking and hunting companions". Considering she keeps quoting from Thomas Carlyle and he's bound to have included that factoid in his many volumed biography, you'd think she knew that Fritz didn't have hunting companions. ;) (Also, there's the perfect Fritz quote expressing the same basic idea ready - his explanation as to why he doesn't want to talk politics with Voltaire: "That would be like drinking tea with one's mistress."
Cutting of heads: I hear you, and agree that it's the fraternal aspect and their shared FW history that makes it special. And, I might add, the following year. There's a reason why so many biographies tend to flash forward from Bautzen (casheering) to Oranienburg (AW dying) a year later, and don't mention the long year in between. Fritz had been pissed off at Schmettau, too, but Schmettau didn't get "it's your fault if we lose this war and all die!" and "the only thing you're fit to command is a seraglio" type of letters.
Can you imagine what FW would have said if Fritz had given Fredersdorf something like Zernikow in his life time? *head explodes*
No. What I also can't imagine is 1730s Fritz being stupid enough to do it. :P
LOL, agreed. Also, I dimly seem to recall Fritz didn't even own Zernikow until 1737 - he bought it then, it wasn't crown property but privately owned by a Colonel something or the other.
Re: Music diss
"it is every unlikely that either Frederick himself or Fredersdorf were trained in playing the oboe".
*hiccup* Though I'm sure that's what they told FW!
LOL, agreed. Also, I dimly seem to recall Fritz didn't even own Zernikow until 1737 - he bought it then, it wasn't crown property but privately owned by a Colonel something or the other.
Good memory!
The Zernikow website provides the history of the estate before and after. It was chronically mismanaged and in debt through F1 and FW's reigns, and often changed its owner accordingly. Fritz bought it as Crown Prince in 1737 from the previous owner, a Lieutenant de Beville (who himself had bought it in 1731), and at first rented it to six citizens in the area. In 1740, when he ascended to the throne, he ended the contracts and gave it to Fredersdorf, who despite all his work for Fritz found time to completely reorganize the estate.
ETA:
Considering she keeps quoting from Thomas Carlyle and he's bound to have included that factoid in his many volumed biography, you'd think she knew that Fritz didn't have hunting companions. ;)
Or drinking companions. (Watered-down champagne doesn't count.) But let's be real: who reads the many volumed Carlyle biography in toto? Because I haven't, and as far as I know, you haven't. :P
But you should know that for other reasons, if your dissertation is on Fritz.