Du Bourgé is Dubourgay/Du Bourguai/Du Bourgay, who is in fact the English envoy to Prussia! 1724-1730, according to Wikipedia. He shows up in Lavisse and Wilhelmine's memoirs as deeply involved in the marriage intrigues with SD. If Suhm was actually friends with him and reporting to him, that makes me think even more that Suhm wanted the English marriages to happen and that that was part of his desire to reconcile FW and G2.
Berlin members apparently sent to August in November 1728. Said letter gives a whole list of members and their nicknames beyond the big five, and among them is: "Suhm, surnommé le Diaphane". I had no idea that he was a member - given the political aspect of this Saxon/Prussian society and his position as Saxon envoy, it kind of makes sense, but, aw, poor Suhm - and that the nickname was in use there (which makes me wonder if he chose it himself).
Oh, wow, that's interesting on at least three counts. That's the earliest reference to the nickname I've seen! It means it wasn't developed after Wilhelmine married and left, but it may have been a recent development that she hadn't gotten used to (since in ~1736 she's still referring to him as Diablotin, and Fritz, who's clearly more used to calling him Diaphane, replies with "Diablotin or Diaphane").
Maybe he did assign it himself!
Also, Suhm as a member of the Antisobriety society, lolsob. I mean, like you say, it makes sense, because if the Saxons and Prussians are setting up a society that's supposed to improve relations between them, I can see why the Saxon envoy can't exactly get out of it.
But November 1728! That's a fascinating date! Because it was October 21, 1728 that Suhm to August reported on the infamous St. Hubertus feast where FW forced Fritz to get drunk, Fritz cried that he loved FW, and Suhm had to help carry him to bed.
And if you've forgotten, this was Suhm's "baptism", which we took to mean his first hunt with the king, and he used that as an excuse to get out of having to drink every time FW took a drink. (Or he says he did; apparently Grumbkow greatly exaggerated his sobriety in his reports. But of Suhm I actually believe he tried to drink as little as possible, unlike Biberius.) And I'm supposed to believe that a couple weeks later he's a member of the Antisobres? More lolsob.
So I'm getting the impression that Manteuffel, who is not a big drinker by nature, is waaay better at adopting a persona for diplomacy's sake than Suhm, who is not a big drinker, but may be a wee bit better at being what we call "diplomatic" in English: phrasing things so as not to give offense. I find this fascinating.
But it still at least suggests that FW didn't trust Suhm and that's why Polenz was deployed in September.
Well, I mean, FW was threatening to hang him in 1727! But admittedly that was for stuff that August and his ministers did, which suggests that FW didn't *like* Suhm at all, but if by 1729, he's specifically suspicious of Suhm's intrigues, that does make sense.
And yeah, I now think Suhm was quietly trying to make the English marriages happen! Which is interesting, because I never see him mentioned in that context.
Or, alternately, no, wait, I have a better idea. The one who suspects him of intriguing with Dubourgay is FW. Maybe Suhm was just averting his eyes a lot because FW was terrifying and Suhm *wasn't* in a position of counter-power due to intriguing (unlike certain people), and that led FW to become suspicious that he was intriguing, because FW's judgment of who's intriguing is exactly like his judgment on who will raise his kids in the FW-approved way! (Admittedly the last one was more a case of him not being able to find anyone because there *was* almost no one, because the FW-approved way died at Leuctra (when the Spartans were defeated by the Thebans in the 4th century BC :P). Joking, but the point is that he was definiteliy not a man of his time).
So, headcanon: poor Suhm is terrified of FW, hates being forced to drink, is deeply in sympathy with abused Fritz but wants Fritz to try to appease FW so FW will let him leave voluntarily, and is secretly hoping the English marriage project pans out but is probably not risking a lot to make it happen, until that last offer to reconcile them (which might have been about avoiding an outbreak of war as much as anything). But it does sound like he's politically more inclined toward England than the Empire (which, remember that Suhm and most of his countrymen are Protestant--Suhm studied in Geneva--even if August and his son converted).
So while searching for references to Dubourgay in MacDonogh, who does a *very* detailed account of the years of English marriage negotiations, I found his source: Oncken 1894-1895, who wrote an account called "Sir Charles und Friedrich Wilhelm I im Jahre 1730." He's apparently one of those 19th century scholars who decided to go through the archives (of Vienna and London in this case) and publish previously unpublished documents. It seems to be an article incorporating passage after passage from various letters and possibly envoy reports, helpfully translated into German. I see the occasional brief quote in English, but we can all handle that. ;)
I had to download every page individually, because argh Hathitrust and Royal Patron is busy, but it was only 67 pages, so I did. It's now in the library. I suspect that there will be stuff new to us (lots of mentions of Dubourgay!), and even if none of the new stuff is interesting (and it may well be), it will be helpful to know the sources for claims we've encountered in secondary sources.
Let me know if I missed any pages or got them out of order, because the process was a little error prone and it's easy to fix, but be aware that the article was a two-parter published in two subsequent volumes of a journal, so there will be a page number jump right at the start of the second article, which is clearly signaled.
First of all, thank you for your dedication. The dispatches qoted are far longer than I've seen elsewhere. Secondly, these are two articles; Oncken mentions a third in which he'll finish the job of revealing the full extent of British infamy and Raumer & Carlyle slander against FW. By which you can gather we have a late 19th century guy in full nationalistic fervour at our hand, only in his case it's not the French, it's perfidious Albion.
Now, the main conclusion he reaches aren't new to us, i.e.: the Brits in 1730 weren't interested in getting just a Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales match, or even that much into a double marriage; their main interest was to get FW away from the Emperor and more into a British alliance, and getting rid of Grumbkow, with a Fritz/Amalia match as a second (also desirable, but not the main issue) goal. The whole final phase of the interminable English marriages project starts when SD, on December 17, writes to Caroline a letter that basically says: Dear Caroline, my husband right now absolutely won't agree to a Fritz/Amalia match, so Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales is the only thing on the table; can we proceed on the basis you're going for that unconditionally?
Caroline's reply basically says: Dear SD, I'm positively shocked you'd think that as a loving and caring mother I'd agree to let any of my kids marry under such terms as "unconditionally". George says hi.
Oncken: HOW DISGUSTINGLY IMPUDENT.
Now, no one tells FW about Caroline's reply, only about SD's letter. When Hotham shows up - and btw, learned a new thing, Sir Charles Hotham was married to the Earl of Chesterfield's sister! Which means he was related to the Schulenburgs and thus to the Kattes in a roundabout way -, as far as FW is concerned, he's there to officially propose in Fritz of Wales name to Wilhelmine, without any further conditions. Hotham, otoh, has instructions to absolutely avoid doing anything like that and only refer to the reason for his arrival as "the matter addressed in the Queen of Prussia's letter" , and to secure the following from FW:
1.) Getting rid of Grumbkow, moving FW to Team Britain and away from Team Vienna. 2.) Getting the current Prussian envoy to London fired, who has a way too good spy network and also pissed everyone in government off. 3.) Fritz/Amalia-Emily, with Fritz and Amalia governing Hannover, preferably with Amalia in charge.
Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales at this point just isn't an issue anymore as far as the Brits are concerned.
There's initial diplomatic double talk where Hotham painfully avoids saying anything when FW goes on about the happy Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales nuptials now that G2 doesn't want any double marriage anymore. At the first reception for Hotham, FW gets drunk and even makes a toast to the match (we have a Stratemann report on this, too), only to tell everyone the next morning he's gone too far and they're not supposed to spread the story. Hotham, realistically, says given the number of guests and servants attending, he doubts this can be done and he was clear instructions from London for how to proceed, given that clearly Caroline's letter (which has made it clear Wihelmine/FoW is not on the table) has had no effect here.
Cue disaster unfolding, on every level. What baffles me is that Oncker otoh points out Caroline's "impudent" letter already made it clear the Brits would not go for solely Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales, let alone "unconditionally", but otoh goes on and on about how insidious and deceptive it was to use SD's letter as a pretext to show up under the false pretense of Wilhelmine/FoW to achieve their sinister aims.
He also otoh demolishes Carlyle (also Raumer) for only quoting partially from Hotham's dispatches, thus creating the impression Hotham did deliver a marriage proposal upon arrival and FW was the one to reject it and doom the marriage, and prides himself on being the first to quote Hotham's reports almost uncut. Otoh, though, when Hotham reports Knyphausen told him FW said to Knyphausen about Fritz "I hate him and he hates me" and that Fritz going to Hannover might be good after all because it would give them a break from each other (a quote that made it into various biographies), Oncken flatly states this is a complete and utter lie on Knyphausen's part and can't have happened because "The King never hated his son" and also the Hannover regency was a British/Knyphausen idea anyway. Note: he doesn't say "I think it's unlikely that" or "Knyphausen could have made this up because this and that", he just states it is a lie, it can't be anything else,because "King Friedrich Wilhelm never hated his son".
At this point I lost my professional respect. I can take 19th century nationalism, but look,you can't otoh complain about Caryle falsifying evidence by selected quotes and otoh dismiss something you don't like as a lie just because it doesn't fit with your idea of a historical personality.
Anyway, Hotham's report show him between Scylla and Charybdis, because obviously what FW wants and what London wants is imcompatible, except for the withdrawal of the Prussian envoy which will happen in summer, but, Oncken announces, in a way that's like "a fist in Hotham's face" and which he'll describe in his third article about honest and misunderstood FW vs Perfidious Albion (and his own family who are ready to stab him in the back).
ETA: A few more thoughts about British goals at this point. The disinterest in a FoW/Wilhelmine match could have both political and personal reasons. Political: if Fritz marries Amalia/Emily, they already have a match affirming the Prussia alliance, so Wilhelmine doesn't deliver any additional political advantage, and with FW's thriftiness, she won't deliver a huge dowry, either.
Personal: Fritz of Wales has now been in England for less than two years, but it's already obvious the gap between him and the rest of his family which fourteen years apart have left won't heal, and besides, George and Caroline are already trying to figure out a way in which younger beloved son Cumberland, aka Bill the future Butcher, can inherit after all, if not the crown, then at last part of the kingdom. The ideal solution, though it will take a few arguments and years more for them to say it out loud, is for FoW to die without an heir, so Bill of Cumberland becomes the next crown prince. I'm not saying this was coldbloodedly plotted out, but it might be behind dragging out any - not just the one with Wilhelmine - potential marriage projects for Fritz of Wales in his parents' subconscious. He did marry relatively late for one of only two sons in an age where securing the male line of succession (for a relatively new dynasty as far as Britain was concerned) was key.
Also: if you want to know why Wilhelmine is so snarky about Caroline ("Agrippina" comparison and all) in her memoirs despite never having met her, look no further than that letter. (Well, okay, look further to being raised for twenty years with the No.1. goal of your education being to please these people, this causing incredibly heartache to you because it's a big reason for your father to treat you as the enemy, and then they just dismiss you like that.)
Thank you for your dedication! I'm glad it contained raw material we hadn't seen, and am headdesking right along with you on the 19th century-ism and the poor scholarship. I notice a few end notes further along in MacDonogh, he did warn me: "There is an anti English tone throughout Oncken's essays, which may have something to do with the time in which he was writing."
He made it look like there were only parts 1 and 2, but I checked the subsequent volume, and lo! there is a part 3. So the pdf in the library has now been updated to include pages 68-98. If it turns out there's a part 4, let me know!
In the meantime, I look forward to more on how perfidious Albion betrayed everyone and how Raumer and Carlyle TOTALLY misrepresented FW.
No part 4 indication. Now, part 2 already described the letters affair which I think you must know from Horowski and elsewhere, i.e. the Brits via Hotham presented FW with the letters Grumbkow and Reichenbach (the Prussian resident in London) exchanged as proof for Grumbkow being the worst. Cue much indignation from Oncken about the disgraceful opening of diplomatic letters. Hothan is the most provocative worst envoy England ever sent. While this was going on, Hotham also had been authorized to offer the old compromise, i.e. a double wedding, but Fritz/one of G2's daughters was a must.
(Reminder: ever since the Clement affair, the Prussians also opened envoy letters they got their hands on. Not all the time, but often enough. If you read Oncken, you'd think the Brits were the only ones to open letters and invented the practice.)
FW throws the Grumbkow letter on the floor and yells at Hotham. Not only is he refusing to believe ill of Grumbkow, he is promoting Reichenbach to, as Hotham reports home, "vice president of all spiritual affairs of the country", with a salary of 1000 Taler per annum. Hotham now wants to leave, but this is when Guy Dickens has his first secret meeting with Fritz and of course immediately reports to Hotham that the Crown Prince wants to leave (via France but with Britain as his long term destination). Now Hotham stays, Dickens goes to Britain immediately to report this to G2. G2 sends a letter back that's essentially "calm down, nephew, you have our sympathies, but maybe not do a runner?" (remember, the near war/duel was just last year; methinks G2 actually does believe FW would go to war if Fritz shows up in England). During the Dickens trip to London and back, there are slightly contradictory reports from Hotham, Seckendorff and Grumbkow in their respective letters as to whether or not Hotham offered FW as a last minute compromise what FW wanted all along, the separation of the two marriages, with FoW/Wilhelmine now, and Fritz/any of G2's daughters he wants a few years later. But for Oncken, all is clear: the true criminals which are at fault for the big tragedy in Fritz' life are the Hannover cousins. Not content with sending Hotham for an anti Grumbkow, anti HRE maneuvre disguised as a marriage negotiation, they encourage SD, Wilhelmine and Fritz in their behaviour towards FW, thus creating and deepening a rift in the Prussian royal family. Then they seduce Fritz into believing he'd be received with open arms by this ambigous mumbling instead of saying clearly that they don't care about the marriages, and of course they don't warn FW. And then they look cold heartedly at the ensuing tragedy. Which would not have happened but for perfidious Albion!
FW, meanwhile, only acted like the thoroughly decent honest man he was, indignant about all this British double talk, about the disregard of private mail and about the slander of his faithful servants, and deeply wounded in the backstabbing from his own family. So there.
Reminder: ever since the Clement affair, the Prussians also opened envoy letters they got their hands on. Not all the time, but often enough. If you read Oncken, you'd think the Brits were the only ones to open letters and invented the practice.
Lolol, everyone was opening all the letters they could!
there are slightly contradictory reports from Hotham, Seckendorff and Grumbkow in their respective letters as to whether or not Hotham offered FW as a last minute compromise what FW wanted all along, the separation of the two marriages, with FoW/Wilhelmine now, and Fritz/any of G2's daughters he wants a few years later
See, that's the kind of thing I wanted to know! It's useful when you're reading other sources that say one or the other.
FW, meanwhile, only acted like the thoroughly decent honest man he was, indignant about all this British double talk, about the disregard of private mail and about the slander of his faithful servants, and deeply wounded in the backstabbing from his own family. So there.
Facepalming so hard. I was about to thank you for taking one for the team again, and that reminded me--there was the 1944 (!) book that we think might have the source for the Fredersdorf embezzlement accusation.
Alfred Weise: König und Kämmerer - Eine Freundschaft. Berlin 1944.
Any chance you can get your hands on that via book order?
(You spoil us so much that we just want more! :D <3)
(Still waiting for my copy of Fahlenkamp, btw, sigh. It's now taken almost as long as the calendar!)
re: the Weise book - I doubt it. The problem is the age of the book. There's no way I'll be allowed to read a book that old outside of the reading room, and the reading rooms aren't available yet, and won't be any time soon the way our infection numbers are on the rise again due to the mutations and the slow vaccinations.
This was helpful, thank you for reading (and putting up with Oncken) and summarizing for us. Our gratitude is eternal, O Royal Reader. Even with his ridiculous commentary, the original sources are useful.
and btw, learned a new thing, Sir Charles Hotham was married to the Earl of Chesterfield's sister! Which means he was related to the Schulenburgs and thus to the Kattes in a roundabout way
Good to know! As Horowski says more than once, you have to pay attention to mistresses, wives, aunts, etc. in order to understand the networking of the 18th century.
At this point I lost my professional respect. I can take 19th century nationalism, but look,you can't otoh complain about Caryle falsifying evidence by selected quotes and otoh dismiss something you don't like as a lie just because it doesn't fit with your idea of a historical personality.
Right? Omg. Ugh.
he was clear instructions from London for how to proceed
Wants clear instructions? I read that as "has" initially, but I'm thinking "wants" makes more sense.
Anyway, Hotham's report show him between Scylla and Charybdis, because obviously what FW wants and what London wants is imcompatible
Yeah, they really have conflicting interests there.
what London wants is imcompatible, except for the withdrawal of the Prussian envoy which will happen in summer
So remind me--that was Reichenbach? Who was Degenfeld, his replacement?
George and Caroline are already trying to figure out a way in which younger beloved son Cumberland, aka Bill the future Butcher, can inherit after all, if not the crown, then at last part of the kingdom. The ideal solution, though it will take a few arguments and years more for them to say it out loud, is for FoW to die without an heir, so Bill of Cumberland becomes the next crown prince.
look no further than that letter. (Well, okay, look further to being raised for twenty years with the No.1. goal of your education being to please these people, this causing incredibly heartache to you because it's a big reason for your father to treat you as the enemy, and then they just dismiss you like that.)
Yep. :/ I feel so sorry for all of these children of royal parents.
Wooooow to Caroline's letter and to FW only knowing about SD's letter, I can just see how that could lead to a disaster of epic proportions!
Oncken flatly states this is a complete and utter lie on Knyphausen's part and can't have happened because "The King never hated his son"
I may have yelled a little at the screen here. Okay, I'm not the scholar you guys are, so my reaction was less about his scholarship and more on the order of "?????? This is, like, the one thing I know about FW!" (Well, I know a little more about him now, but. STILL.)
The ideal solution, though it will take a few arguments and years more for them to say it out loud, is for FoW to die without an heir, so Bill of Cumberland becomes the next crown prince. I'm not saying this was coldbloodedly plotted out, but it might be behind dragging out any - not just the one with Wilhelmine - potential marriage projects for Fritz of Wales in his parents' subconscious.
This is fascinating and rings true (especially since you are implying they did eventually think/say it out loud?) if also, as mildred says, DYSFUNCTION EVERYWHERE.
especially since you are implying they did eventually think/say it out loud?)
For the repeated times Caroline later said out loud she wished Fritz of Wales was dead, see my write-up of Hervey's memoirs. The Victorian editor of which also footnotes with the tale of how George and Caroline already started to try and find a way to circumvent the laws of primogeniture and let Bill of Cumberland get at least part of the Kingdom before Fritz of Wales ever came to Britain, i.e. when he was still growing up in Hannover with no chance to either please or disgust them; one of the ideas was to split up Britain and Hannover again and give one to FoW and the other to Bill. AS I recall, one of the ministers even advised G1, who was still alive at the time, that he should bring over Fritz (of Gloucester at that point, since future G2 was still Prince of Wales) to Britain within his life time or else he'd never get there the way the Prince and Crown Princess were acting.
I stand corrected! (Thwarted by phonetic spelling, ha. ETA: Ha, I just saw that Blanning even mentions him and quotes some of his Fritz-related reports (via Carlyle). Did not remember that.) But that's good to know. Even if he didn't actively try to make anything happen, I can easily believe that Suhm was in favour of the English marriages and that FW would find him suspicious, particularly if he noticed that Suhm was friendly with Fritz. And as you said in another comment above, he really did get out just in time. If FW thought he was working with the English in 1729 already, true or not (FW's paranoia is certainly not enough evidence), it would not have gone well for him in 1730. No wonder FW called him an arch villain whom he should have hanged in 1737, and that Fritz and Suhm had to take some precautions with their correspondence. ... but now I'm wondering what it must have been like for Suhm to follow the whole 1730 drama from afar. :(
what we call "diplomatic" in English: phrasing things so as not to give offense
Ha, I just saw that Blanning even mentions him and quotes some of his Fritz-related reports (via Carlyle). Did not remember that.
This is why I periodically reread key works. When I first read Wilhelmine's memoirs, I had no idea who most of the characters in volume 1 were! And only recently did I get Duke Anton Ulrich straight in my head, just in time for my Suhm letters reread.
If FW thought he was working with the English in 1729 already, true or not (FW's paranoia is certainly not enough evidence)
Yep, that's the conclusion I came to. Btw, if Diaphane did nickname himself specifically for the drinking club, part of me thinks a possible interpretation was "transparent," i.e. "not hiding anything from you, FW, totally. Straightforward straight-shooter, I am!"
No wonder FW called him an arch villain whom he should have hanged in 1737, and that Fritz and Suhm had to take some precautions with their correspondence.
Indeed. We wondered at the time if there was a reason other than Fritz/Suhm, and now I think we've found it! Or one. Possibly he didn't convincingly drink enough. :P
... but now I'm wondering what it must have been like for Suhm to follow the whole 1730 drama from afar. :(
I've wondered that for a long time, especially since writing their post-1730 reunion in "Heaven." It wasn't all that afar--Suhm was in Berlin! Just not at court, or not officially. (Even if he was showing up at court from time to time, I bet he kept a low profile August-January that year.)
what we call "diplomatic" in English: phrasing things so as not to give offense
Same in German. :)
Good to know, thank you! (Learning German one word at a time, lol.)
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Re: Le Diable: The Political Biography - B
Berlin members apparently sent to August in November 1728. Said letter gives a whole list of members and their nicknames beyond the big five, and among them is: "Suhm, surnommé le Diaphane". I had no idea that he was a member - given the political aspect of this Saxon/Prussian society and his position as Saxon envoy, it kind of makes sense, but, aw, poor Suhm - and that the nickname was in use there (which makes me wonder if he chose it himself).
Oh, wow, that's interesting on at least three counts. That's the earliest reference to the nickname I've seen! It means it wasn't developed after Wilhelmine married and left, but it may have been a recent development that she hadn't gotten used to (since in ~1736 she's still referring to him as Diablotin, and Fritz, who's clearly more used to calling him Diaphane, replies with "Diablotin or Diaphane").
Maybe he did assign it himself!
Also, Suhm as a member of the Antisobriety society, lolsob. I mean, like you say, it makes sense, because if the Saxons and Prussians are setting up a society that's supposed to improve relations between them, I can see why the Saxon envoy can't exactly get out of it.
But November 1728! That's a fascinating date! Because it was October 21, 1728 that Suhm to August reported on the infamous St. Hubertus feast where FW forced Fritz to get drunk, Fritz cried that he loved FW, and Suhm had to help carry him to bed.
And if you've forgotten, this was Suhm's "baptism", which we took to mean his first hunt with the king, and he used that as an excuse to get out of having to drink every time FW took a drink. (Or he says he did; apparently Grumbkow greatly exaggerated his sobriety in his reports. But of Suhm I actually believe he tried to drink as little as possible, unlike Biberius.) And I'm supposed to believe that a couple weeks later he's a member of the Antisobres? More lolsob.
So I'm getting the impression that Manteuffel, who is not a big drinker by nature, is waaay better at adopting a persona for diplomacy's sake than Suhm, who is not a big drinker, but may be a wee bit better at being what we call "diplomatic" in English: phrasing things so as not to give offense. I find this fascinating.
But it still at least suggests that FW didn't trust Suhm and that's why Polenz was deployed in September.
Well, I mean, FW was threatening to hang him in 1727! But admittedly that was for stuff that August and his ministers did, which suggests that FW didn't *like* Suhm at all, but if by 1729, he's specifically suspicious of Suhm's intrigues, that does make sense.
And yeah, I now think Suhm was quietly trying to make the English marriages happen! Which is interesting, because I never see him mentioned in that context.
Or, alternately, no, wait, I have a better idea. The one who suspects him of intriguing with Dubourgay is FW. Maybe Suhm was just averting his eyes a lot because FW was terrifying and Suhm *wasn't* in a position of counter-power due to intriguing (unlike certain people), and that led FW to become suspicious that he was intriguing, because FW's judgment of who's intriguing is exactly like his judgment on who will raise his kids in the FW-approved way! (Admittedly the last one was more a case of him not being able to find anyone because there *was* almost no one, because the FW-approved way died at Leuctra (when the Spartans were defeated by the Thebans in the 4th century BC :P). Joking, but the point is that he was definiteliy not a man of his time).
So, headcanon: poor Suhm is terrified of FW, hates being forced to drink, is deeply in sympathy with abused Fritz but wants Fritz to try to appease FW so FW will let him leave voluntarily, and is secretly hoping the English marriage project pans out but is probably not risking a lot to make it happen, until that last offer to reconcile them (which might have been about avoiding an outbreak of war as much as anything). But it does sound like he's politically more inclined toward England than the Empire (which, remember that Suhm and most of his countrymen are Protestant--Suhm studied in Geneva--even if August and his son converted).
English marriage intrigues
I had to download every page individually, because argh Hathitrust and Royal Patron is busy, but it was only 67 pages, so I did. It's now in the library. I suspect that there will be stuff new to us (lots of mentions of Dubourgay!), and even if none of the new stuff is interesting (and it may well be), it will be helpful to know the sources for claims we've encountered in secondary sources.
Let me know if I missed any pages or got them out of order, because the process was a little error prone and it's easy to fix, but be aware that the article was a two-parter published in two subsequent volumes of a journal, so there will be a page number jump right at the start of the second article, which is clearly signaled.
Re: English marriage intrigues
Now, the main conclusion he reaches aren't new to us, i.e.: the Brits in 1730 weren't interested in getting just a Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales match, or even that much into a double marriage; their main interest was to get FW away from the Emperor and more into a British alliance, and getting rid of Grumbkow, with a Fritz/Amalia match as a second (also desirable, but not the main issue) goal. The whole final phase of the interminable English marriages project starts when SD, on December 17, writes to Caroline a letter that basically says: Dear Caroline, my husband right now absolutely won't agree to a Fritz/Amalia match, so Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales is the only thing on the table; can we proceed on the basis you're going for that unconditionally?
Caroline's reply basically says: Dear SD, I'm positively shocked you'd think that as a loving and caring mother I'd agree to let any of my kids marry under such terms as "unconditionally". George says hi.
Oncken: HOW DISGUSTINGLY IMPUDENT.
Now, no one tells FW about Caroline's reply, only about SD's letter. When Hotham shows up - and btw, learned a new thing, Sir Charles Hotham was married to the Earl of Chesterfield's sister! Which means he was related to the Schulenburgs and thus to the Kattes in a roundabout way -, as far as FW is concerned, he's there to officially propose in Fritz of Wales name to Wilhelmine, without any further conditions. Hotham, otoh, has instructions to absolutely avoid doing anything like that and only refer to the reason for his arrival as "the matter addressed in the Queen of Prussia's letter" , and to secure the following from FW:
1.) Getting rid of Grumbkow, moving FW to Team Britain and away from Team Vienna.
2.) Getting the current Prussian envoy to London fired, who has a way too good spy network and also pissed everyone in government off.
3.) Fritz/Amalia-Emily, with Fritz and Amalia governing Hannover, preferably with Amalia in charge.
Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales at this point just isn't an issue anymore as far as the Brits are concerned.
There's initial diplomatic double talk where Hotham painfully avoids saying anything when FW goes on about the happy Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales nuptials now that G2 doesn't want any double marriage anymore. At the first reception for Hotham, FW gets drunk and even makes a toast to the match (we have a Stratemann report on this, too), only to tell everyone the next morning he's gone too far and they're not supposed to spread the story. Hotham, realistically, says given the number of guests and servants attending, he doubts this can be done and he was clear instructions from London for how to proceed, given that clearly Caroline's letter (which has made it clear Wihelmine/FoW is not on the table) has had no effect here.
Cue disaster unfolding, on every level. What baffles me is that Oncker otoh points out Caroline's "impudent" letter already made it clear the Brits would not go for solely Wilhelmine/Fritz of Wales, let alone "unconditionally", but otoh goes on and on about how insidious and deceptive it was to use SD's letter as a pretext to show up under the false pretense of Wilhelmine/FoW to achieve their sinister aims.
He also otoh demolishes Carlyle (also Raumer) for only quoting partially from Hotham's dispatches, thus creating the impression Hotham did deliver a marriage proposal upon arrival and FW was the one to reject it and doom the marriage, and prides himself on being the first to quote Hotham's reports almost uncut. Otoh, though, when Hotham reports Knyphausen told him FW said to Knyphausen about Fritz "I hate him and he hates me" and that Fritz going to Hannover might be good after all because it would give them a break from each other (a quote that made it into various biographies), Oncken flatly states this is a complete and utter lie on Knyphausen's part and can't have happened because "The King never hated his son" and also the Hannover regency was a British/Knyphausen idea anyway. Note: he doesn't say "I think it's unlikely that" or "Knyphausen could have made this up because this and that", he just states it is a lie, it can't be anything else,because "King Friedrich Wilhelm never hated his son".
At this point I lost my professional respect. I can take 19th century nationalism, but look,you can't otoh complain about Caryle falsifying evidence by selected quotes and otoh dismiss something you don't like as a lie just because it doesn't fit with your idea of a historical personality.
Anyway, Hotham's report show him between Scylla and Charybdis, because obviously what FW wants and what London wants is imcompatible, except for the withdrawal of the Prussian envoy which will happen in summer, but, Oncken announces, in a way that's like "a fist in Hotham's face" and which he'll describe in his third article about honest and misunderstood FW vs Perfidious Albion (and his own family who are ready to stab him in the back).
ETA: A few more thoughts about British goals at this point. The disinterest in a FoW/Wilhelmine match could have both political and personal reasons. Political: if Fritz marries Amalia/Emily, they already have a match affirming the Prussia alliance, so Wilhelmine doesn't deliver any additional political advantage, and with FW's thriftiness, she won't deliver a huge dowry, either.
Personal: Fritz of Wales has now been in England for less than two years, but it's already obvious the gap between him and the rest of his family which fourteen years apart have left won't heal, and besides, George and Caroline are already trying to figure out a way in which younger beloved son Cumberland, aka Bill the future Butcher, can inherit after all, if not the crown, then at last part of the kingdom. The ideal solution, though it will take a few arguments and years more for them to say it out loud, is for FoW to die without an heir, so Bill of Cumberland becomes the next crown prince. I'm not saying this was coldbloodedly plotted out, but it might be behind dragging out any - not just the one with Wilhelmine - potential marriage projects for Fritz of Wales in his parents' subconscious. He did marry relatively late for one of only two sons in an age where securing the male line of succession (for a relatively new dynasty as far as Britain was concerned) was key.
Also: if you want to know why Wilhelmine is so snarky about Caroline ("Agrippina" comparison and all) in her memoirs despite never having met her, look no further than that letter. (Well, okay, look further to being raised for twenty years with the No.1. goal of your education being to please these people, this causing incredibly heartache to you because it's a big reason for your father to treat you as the enemy, and then they just dismiss you like that.)
Re: English marriage intrigues
He made it look like there were only parts 1 and 2, but I checked the subsequent volume, and lo! there is a part 3. So the pdf in the library has now been updated to include pages 68-98. If it turns out there's a part 4, let me know!
In the meantime, I look forward to more on how perfidious Albion betrayed everyone and how Raumer and Carlyle TOTALLY misrepresented FW.
More when time permits!
Re: English marriage intrigues
(Reminder: ever since the Clement affair, the Prussians also opened envoy letters they got their hands on. Not all the time, but often enough. If you read Oncken, you'd think the Brits were the only ones to open letters and invented the practice.)
FW throws the Grumbkow letter on the floor and yells at Hotham. Not only is he refusing to believe ill of Grumbkow, he is promoting Reichenbach to, as Hotham reports home, "vice president of all spiritual affairs of the country", with a salary of 1000 Taler per annum. Hotham now wants to leave, but this is when Guy Dickens has his first secret meeting with Fritz and of course immediately reports to Hotham that the Crown Prince wants to leave (via France but with Britain as his long term destination). Now Hotham stays, Dickens goes to Britain immediately to report this to G2. G2 sends a letter back that's essentially "calm down, nephew, you have our sympathies, but maybe not do a runner?" (remember, the near war/duel was just last year; methinks G2 actually does believe FW would go to war if Fritz shows up in England). During the Dickens trip to London and back, there are slightly contradictory reports from Hotham, Seckendorff and Grumbkow in their respective letters as to whether or not Hotham offered FW as a last minute compromise what FW wanted all along, the separation of the two marriages, with FoW/Wilhelmine now, and Fritz/any of G2's daughters he wants a few years later. But for Oncken, all is clear: the true criminals which are at fault for the big tragedy in Fritz' life are the Hannover cousins. Not content with sending Hotham for an anti Grumbkow, anti HRE maneuvre disguised as a marriage negotiation, they encourage SD, Wilhelmine and Fritz in their behaviour towards FW, thus creating and deepening a rift in the Prussian royal family. Then they seduce Fritz into believing he'd be received with open arms by this ambigous mumbling instead of saying clearly that they don't care about the marriages, and of course they don't warn FW. And then they look cold heartedly at the ensuing tragedy. Which would not have happened but for perfidious Albion!
FW, meanwhile, only acted like the thoroughly decent honest man he was, indignant about all this British double talk, about the disregard of private mail and about the slander of his faithful servants, and deeply wounded in the backstabbing from his own family. So there.
Re: English marriage intrigues
Reminder: ever since the Clement affair, the Prussians also opened envoy letters they got their hands on. Not all the time, but often enough. If you read Oncken, you'd think the Brits were the only ones to open letters and invented the practice.
Lolol, everyone was opening all the letters they could!
there are slightly contradictory reports from Hotham, Seckendorff and Grumbkow in their respective letters as to whether or not Hotham offered FW as a last minute compromise what FW wanted all along, the separation of the two marriages, with FoW/Wilhelmine now, and Fritz/any of G2's daughters he wants a few years later
See, that's the kind of thing I wanted to know! It's useful when you're reading other sources that say one or the other.
FW, meanwhile, only acted like the thoroughly decent honest man he was, indignant about all this British double talk, about the disregard of private mail and about the slander of his faithful servants, and deeply wounded in the backstabbing from his own family. So there.
Facepalming so hard. I was about to thank you for taking one for the team again, and that reminded me--there was the 1944 (!) book that we think might have the source for the Fredersdorf embezzlement accusation.
Alfred Weise: König und Kämmerer - Eine Freundschaft. Berlin 1944.
Any chance you can get your hands on that via book order?
(You spoil us so much that we just want more! :D <3)
(Still waiting for my copy of Fahlenkamp, btw, sigh. It's now taken almost as long as the calendar!)
Re: English marriage intrigues
Re: English marriage intrigues
Re: English marriage intrigues
and btw, learned a new thing, Sir Charles Hotham was married to the Earl of Chesterfield's sister! Which means he was related to the Schulenburgs and thus to the Kattes in a roundabout way
Good to know! As Horowski says more than once, you have to pay attention to mistresses, wives, aunts, etc. in order to understand the networking of the 18th century.
At this point I lost my professional respect. I can take 19th century nationalism, but look,you can't otoh complain about Caryle falsifying evidence by selected quotes and otoh dismiss something you don't like as a lie just because it doesn't fit with your idea of a historical personality.
Right? Omg. Ugh.
he was clear instructions from London for how to proceed
Wants clear instructions? I read that as "has" initially, but I'm thinking "wants" makes more sense.
Anyway, Hotham's report show him between Scylla and Charybdis, because obviously what FW wants and what London wants is imcompatible
Yeah, they really have conflicting interests there.
what London wants is imcompatible, except for the withdrawal of the Prussian envoy which will happen in summer
So remind me--that was Reichenbach? Who was Degenfeld, his replacement?
George and Caroline are already trying to figure out a way in which younger beloved son Cumberland, aka Bill the future Butcher, can inherit after all, if not the crown, then at last part of the kingdom. The ideal solution, though it will take a few arguments and years more for them to say it out loud, is for FoW to die without an heir, so Bill of Cumberland becomes the next crown prince.
Hohenzollerns: dysfunctional.
Hanovers: dysfunctional.
Hohenzollern + Hanover marriage negotiations = dysfunction squared.
look no further than that letter. (Well, okay, look further to being raised for twenty years with the No.1. goal of your education being to please these people, this causing incredibly heartache to you because it's a big reason for your father to treat you as the enemy, and then they just dismiss you like that.)
Yep. :/ I feel so sorry for all of these children of royal parents.
Re: English marriage intrigues
Yes, should have been "Wants", sorry.
So remind me--that was Reichenbach? Who was Degenfeld, his replacement?
Yes and yes.
Hohenzollerns: dysfunctional.
Hanovers: dysfunctional.
Hohenzollern + Hanover marriage negotiations = dysfunction squared.
No kidding!
Re: English marriage intrigues
Oncken flatly states this is a complete and utter lie on Knyphausen's part and can't have happened because "The King never hated his son"
I may have yelled a little at the screen here. Okay, I'm not the scholar you guys are, so my reaction was less about his scholarship and more on the order of "?????? This is, like, the one thing I know about FW!" (Well, I know a little more about him now, but. STILL.)
The ideal solution, though it will take a few arguments and years more for them to say it out loud, is for FoW to die without an heir, so Bill of Cumberland becomes the next crown prince. I'm not saying this was coldbloodedly plotted out, but it might be behind dragging out any - not just the one with Wilhelmine - potential marriage projects for Fritz of Wales in his parents' subconscious.
This is fascinating and rings true (especially since you are implying they did eventually think/say it out loud?) if also, as mildred says, DYSFUNCTION EVERYWHERE.
Re: English marriage intrigues
For the repeated times Caroline later said out loud she wished Fritz of Wales was dead, see my write-up of Hervey's memoirs. The Victorian editor of which also footnotes with the tale of how George and Caroline already started to try and find a way to circumvent the laws of primogeniture and let Bill of Cumberland get at least part of the Kingdom before Fritz of Wales ever came to Britain, i.e. when he was still growing up in Hannover with no chance to either please or disgust them; one of the ideas was to split up Britain and Hannover again and give one to FoW and the other to Bill. AS I recall, one of the ministers even advised G1, who was still alive at the time, that he should bring over Fritz (of Gloucester at that point, since future G2 was still Prince of Wales) to Britain within his life time or else he'd never get there the way the Prince and Crown Princess were acting.
Re: Le Diable: The Political Biography - B
... but now I'm wondering what it must have been like for Suhm to follow the whole 1730 drama from afar. :(
what we call "diplomatic" in English: phrasing things so as not to give offense
Same in German. :)
Re: Le Diable: The Political Biography - B
This is why I periodically reread key works. When I first read Wilhelmine's memoirs, I had no idea who most of the characters in volume 1 were! And only recently did I get Duke Anton Ulrich straight in my head, just in time for my Suhm letters reread.
If FW thought he was working with the English in 1729 already, true or not (FW's paranoia is certainly not enough evidence)
Yep, that's the conclusion I came to. Btw, if Diaphane did nickname himself specifically for the drinking club, part of me thinks a possible interpretation was "transparent," i.e. "not hiding anything from you, FW, totally. Straightforward straight-shooter, I am!"
No wonder FW called him an arch villain whom he should have hanged in 1737, and that Fritz and Suhm had to take some precautions with their correspondence.
Indeed. We wondered at the time if there was a reason other than Fritz/Suhm, and now I think we've found it! Or one. Possibly he didn't convincingly drink enough. :P
... but now I'm wondering what it must have been like for Suhm to follow the whole 1730 drama from afar. :(
I've wondered that for a long time, especially since writing their post-1730 reunion in "Heaven." It wasn't all that afar--Suhm was in Berlin! Just not at court, or not officially. (Even if he was showing up at court from time to time, I bet he kept a low profile August-January that year.)
what we call "diplomatic" in English: phrasing things so as not to give offense
Same in German. :)
Good to know, thank you! (Learning German one word at a time, lol.)