You're linking to books faster than I can download them and upload them to the library! (I was in the middle of trying to catch up on some of your recent findings when this came in.)
Thank you! (Also, I thought 6 weeks was surprisingly short and was trying to come up with a reason. In my head when I wrote "Grind", my guess was 6 months.
Also...there's a whole book/longish essay on Fritz's last hours and funeral arrangements? Hmmm. That's Mildred catnip. :D
Having browsed through it, it is incredibly detailed, includes stuff like the exact clothing dead Fritz was dressed in, or that his "thin grey hair" was combed and powdered into "loose curls", and the name of the servant who held him when he died. (I'll translate the passage for you.) The whole tone is legic and hyperpatriotic, and this means the author runs into an obvious problem, to wit, that the whole funeral arrangements and procedure which he describes in loving detail was something the "Hochseliger" as he refers to Fritz, the late King of blessed memory, would explicitly not have wanted. At which point our author commits a blatant falsehood and goes (paraphrased): "Dear readers, you may have heard the story that Fritz wanted to be buried in Sanssouci. Well, maybe the whim struck him on one of those lovely evenings sitting out there, and he made a remark to that effect to a visitor, but I can assure you it really was no more than that, no written instructions anyway, and so our noble new king, who just couldn't know for sure one way or the other, decided to bury him worthily in royal style!"
The only point where he says something critical about the funeral arrangements etc. at all is when in the memorial service they play a new composition with Latin text by Luccessini, and the author chides that it being in Latin means that most of the people assembled in the Garnisonskirche would have understood a word, and provides the text with German translation in an appendix. (It's basically "Who was the greatest? FRITZ! Fuck Yeah!" in Latin, in several verses, listing individual accomplishments - the land winning by river draining projects, Silesia, making his enemies quail in the 7 Years War, philosopher and writer.)
The death scene, starting on the evening: They say the King had asked about the time, and when he was told that it was 9 pm, he supposedly said then it was time for him to retire. There are a lot of other stories, the veracity of which I can't swear to, so I won't repeat them here. Finally, his breath became shorter and shorter, the moaning sound became softer and softer, as is the habit with a marusmus senilis, and at last, he took his last breath on Thursday morning at 2 am 19 minutes, leaning forwards to one side, with the head pressed against the body of the chamber servant ("Kammerlakei") Strizky.
Present during the death of this great monarch were, aside from the two royal chamber hussars, Mr. Neumann and Mr. Schöning, various other servants. His excellency the state and cabinet minister Baron von Herzberg, Generallieutenant Count von Görtz, and General Major and Master of the Horse Schwerin were situated in the side chambers next door. The royal physician, Dr. Selle, immediately called his excellency state and cabinet minister von Herzberg, who then signalled to the stableboy waiting at the ramp of Sanssouci that the King was dead, and the later immediately brought the news to his excellency Generallieutenant von Röddich and to the Prince of Prussia, now the current King's Majesty.
FW2 was in Sanssouci within hours. (And moved in one of the rooms for the next few days until everything administartive was transferred to the Berlin town palace, though he resided in one of the guest rooms; Fritz' chamber was sealed off.) Because Fritz had strictly forbidden an autopsy and an embalming (his mother had done the same thing; AW was the outlier with explicitly requesting an autopsy after his death), and it was August, the funeral really happened very quickly because of the threatening decay, and the death mask was also taken quickly for that reason. Otoh, the three coffins Fritz was put in were all openened again before they found their final place in case the body had been shaken and moved through the transport and had to be put back into dignified position.
Alas, no mentioning as to what became of the dogs in the entire text that I could see! (Though maybe I overlooked it, it was a very quick reading on my part.) I remember this was one of our old questions.
the author runs into an obvious problem, to wit, that the whole funeral arrangements and procedure which he describes in loving detail was something the "Hochseliger" as he refers to Fritz, the late King of blessed memory, would explicitly not have wanted
I noticed that! Manger had a similar problem when describing the Sanssouci vault and Fritz' wish to be buried there, but was a bit less embellishing: It's possible that he changed his mind over time, or that one didn't think it necessary to follow his instruction.
Kletschke, by the way, is this guy, military and court chaplain, and also responsible for and invested in reforming the military schools and the military orphanage in Potsdam during Fritz' last years, continuing that under FWII.
Because Fritz had strictly forbidden an autopsy and an embalming (his mother had done the same thing; AW was the outlier with explicitly requesting an autopsy after his death), and it was August, the funeral really happened very quickly because of the threatening decay, and the death mask was also taken quickly for that reason.
Yeah. FWIII wrote his own description of the day (which can be found in Vol. 3 of Volz' "Spiegel") - he was woken during the night, arrived shortly after his father, and mentions that two servants kept away the flies with green branches while Fritz' body was still in Sanssouci (the music room) and before he was washed with spirit alcohol. (No embalming, as we know, but they did make a couple of incisions to get rid of the water, and FWIII comments that if they could have done that when he was still alive, he might not have died.) Also: It has been said that the king probably never rested as gently as he does now that he is dead; for it must be remembered that the most blessed king lay on mattresses at all times during his lifetime and that the pillows in the coffin are extremely soft. No mention of the dogs from him either. Which is almost surprising, given that he spent so much time in Sanssouci that day, but I guess they were brought away pretty quickly after Fritz' death, as to not be underfoot during the proceedings.
Kletschke, by the way, is this guy, military and court chaplain, and also responsible for and invested in reforming the military schools and the military orphanage in Potsdam during Fritz' last years, continuing that under FWII.
Ah, thank you! I had been wondering who our author was.
the king probably never rested as gently as he does now that he is dead; for it must be remembered that the most blessed king lay on mattresses at all times during his lifetime
That tells you something about mattresses of the time!
No mention of the dogs from him either. Which is almost surprising, given that he spent so much time in Sanssouci that day, but I guess they were brought away pretty quickly after Fritz' death, as to not be underfoot during the proceedings.
Awww. I can see why, but Fritz would have wanted them underfoot. </3 (Sorry, I'm a dog person, can't help it. ;))
they did make a couple of incisions to get rid of the water, and FWIII comments that if they could have done that when he was still alive, he might not have died.
Wait, why is this? Did they think he died of the dropsy?
I think so, yes. Dropsy is repeatedly described as "fatal", and much of the treatment Fritz's doctors were recommending (which he blithely ignored) in his last year was aimed at bringing the water retention down via diuretics. Everyone noticed that people who got dropsy (FW! Wilhelmine! Fritz!) tended to die, but I imagine the connection to underlying organ failure wasn't really well understood.
Thank you for this! Some of it (like the thin grey hair being powdered and curled) I had run into, and Strizky for example I'd seen written as Strutski, but certainly not all of it, and I didn't know what the source of any of this was. It's good to know!
maybe the whim struck him on one of those lovely evenings sitting out there, and he made a remark to that effect to a visitor, but I can assure you it really was no more than that
WHAT. What about the WHOLE VAULT he had constructed all the way back in the 1740s??? >:-(
It's basically "Who was the greatest? FRITZ! Fuck Yeah!"
LOLOL. Der Einzige! My fave.
Alas, no mentioning as to what became of the dogs in the entire text that I could see!
WHAT. What about the WHOLE VAULT he had constructed all the way back in the 1740s??? >:-(
I know. Kletschke sounds otherwise like a great, standup guy in the wiki entry Felis linked, campaigning tirelessly for direly needed reform schools, but that claim is a giant whopper. Even Mnager's "maybe he changed his mind late in the day?" is more of an effort to get around the "current day monarch, who is paying my salary and whom I want more money from for my big school project did go directly against wish from dead monarch" problem. There's just no way laudatory to both Kings you can say "and then FW2 must have thought, fuck you, Uncle Fritz, I know the perfect way to thank you for a life time of verbal abuse and a childhood spent in terror of you and all those teachers you ordered to taunt me as often as possible! I'll put your dead body next to your Dad's for the rest of eternity!"
It's a shame no one mentions the dogs. The dogs are important! We want to know!
Yeah, everyone writing was kind of stuck in a tight spot there. That said, if you *must* flatter both monarchs (and I accept that in Prussia, you must), Formey's approach of "LA LA LA what escape attempt? BECAUSE OF REASONS, Keith had to leave his post at Wesel," is, while definitely frustrating to us, at least not a lie of commission.
It's a shame no one mentions the dogs. The dogs are important! We want to know!
I know! Maybe one day we'll turn it up. Anybody know where we can find EC letters to her family from the late 1780s? Ferdinand's still alive, maybe she mentioned it to him.
It's basically "Who was the greatest? FRITZ! Fuck Yeah!" in Latin
LOL! I love your way with words.
...okay, I have to ask, why would you forbid an autopsy and embalming? I can see why AW would request one, but as a child of the post-Enlightenment world I don't really see what the problem is in getting an autopsy. Is it because it messes with the dead body and people thought that was weird??
Well, if Dr. Zimmermann - he of the broken penis theory - is to be trusted, the problem was that Fritz didn't want to be seen in the nude by anoyne, which if your dead body gets embalmed is inevitable, whether or not there's an autopsy first. This might have been SD's reason as well. Caveat here: as among other things the detailed "last days and funeral" report felis unearthed shows, dead nude Fritz was, in fact, seen by several someones, not least because his body was cleaned up from head to to and dressed in a uniform, which he had to know would happen even if he had gotten the funeral of his choice, so forbidding embalming for that reason alone would have been illogical.
Now today, I know a good share of people who don't want to be embalmed, but they usually buy burial places under trees in a "Friedwald" so their dead bodies can become one with nature, if they don't opt to be cremated to begin with. Wanting to become one with nature definitely wasn't an option for SD, though! So I'm left there with "she probably thought doctors cutting her open would be terribly undignified"?
Huh. So I assumed that when Fritz and FW forbade it, it was part of their joint refusal to participate in royal rituals. Unlike Fritz, FW wanted an actual funeral, but embalming was expensive, and I assumed that was part of why he didn't want that. (He may also have had religious reasons, I'm not sure about his particular beliefs.)
Fritz, as we all know (contra Manger and Kletschke), wanted a simple funeral because he believed death was the end, and he wanted to be buried like a philosopher, not a king. I always assumed "no embalming" was part of that.
But SD. Huh. I would have assumed she would have gone full-blown royal treatment! Maybe it was modesty/squeamishness.
I came across the SD thing when looking up her funeral because reasons these last few months. Since she also died in the summer, her not wanting any embalming (or autopsy) was one big reason why Amalie didn't have the time to wait for Fritz' instructions regarding the manner of the funeral and organized it post haste herself. (It's all in Lehndorff's diaries; he was one of the coffin carriers, and she was rather heavy.)
wanted to be buried like a philosopher, not a king. I always assumed "no embalming" was part of that.
Yeah, I think that's certainly a big part of it in Fritz' case, even including the "return to nature" aspect, see the introductory context in his will:
Gladly and without regret, I return my breath of life to the beneficial nature that graciously lent it to me, and my body to the elements of which it is made. I lived as a philosopher and want to be buried as such, without pageantry and ceremonial pomp. I don't want to be dissected or embalmed. [Followed by the vault details and the "like Moritz von Nassau, who was buried in a bosk" reference, i.e. more nature.]
That said, and Zimmermann aside, no autopsy (as opposed to no "kingly" embalming) might still have been an expression of his control issues, i.e. not wanting anybody to mess with his body after his death? Not sure how much his pragmatic belief that death was the end would have affected that, or what the general view of autopsies was around the time. But in addition to mentioning it in both versions of his will (see below), he also makes sure to include it in two "in case I get killed" instructions in 1757 (pre-Leuthen) and 1758 (pre-Zorndorf), solely, without mentioning embalming as well. So it must have been rather important to him. (The German version from 1758: Man soll mir nicht öffnen, sondern stille nach Sanssouci bringen und in meinem Garten begraben lassen.) By the way, the first of his wartime "in case I die" instructions from 1741 actually says he wants to be cremated (in the Roman style) and buried in an urn grave at Rheinsberg. Interesting to see the changes over time.
Speaking of! I just realized that there were two versions of his will, 1752 and 1769, and that the second is slightly different and condensed when it comes to the burial instructions, i.e. he left out the whole dramatic "third day at midnight, by latern light, nobody following" part in the second one. (The middle step being a simple "at night" in 1757.) I'm curious if he had a template/reference for that earlier scenario, do we know?
Also, Preuss says that the 1769 testament was opened and read by the Minister of State v. Hertzberg, on August 18, 1786, at the castle of Berlin, in the presence of the new king, of the princes Heinrich and Ferdinand, and of the Minister of State Count Finck of Finckenstein, which made me wonder if we have any comments from Heinrich (or Ferdinand) about FWII disregarding Fritz' wishes?
Not that Ziebura quoted them in her biography. Mind you, I always suspected that Heinrich micromanaging his own funeral in advance was partly because of that. As to how Heinrich and Ferdinand felt about FW2 disregarding Fritz' wishes re: the manner of his burial: mixed, probably. Between AW's fate and FW2's youth,they might have seen it as an avenging gesture FW2 was entitled to, or they could have seen it as disrespect towards the older generation not boding well for their own futures. (Well, Heinrich's future at any rate, since Ferdinand didn't have any hopes of getting back into politics and the military now, which Heinrich in 1786 most certainly did, only for FW2 to refuse to let him rejoin the army - which he'd left in the Bavarian war - and thereby set the tone for the rest of his life.)
I'm sure Heinrich would have said something on this matter to his personal circle of friends, but alas, Lehndorff's diaries from that time are lost. Anyway, I just checked with Ziebura again who gives Heinrich's precise orders for how his dead body and funeral are to be handled, and while he doesn't mention either prohibiting or allowing autopsy or embalming, the rest is very Fritz like, as befits l'autre moi-meme, especially point 5 (wants to be dressed in his oldest uniform, and if his legs are swollen, the boots can be cut upon, he doesn't want to be a disgusting spectacle for the world), 10) (no torches around his body when it's laid out, just a single guard to make sure he's really dead for a night and to keep the cats and dogs from having a go at it, no flowers and other decorations on his coffin), and 9) Count Roedern is supposed to remind the King (FW3) that the Comte de la Roche-Raymon is in charge of the funeral and that Heinrich wants to be buried at Rheinsberg in the vault he built for himself, with the epitaph he wrote.
BTW, cats and dogs: I never realised this before, but that means Heinrich must have kept some at Rheinsberg, or people from his household did.
BTW, cats and dogs: I never realised this before, but that means Heinrich must have kept some at Rheinsberg, or people from his household did.
Evidently! I think I had raised an eyebrow at that when reading Ziebura, but then totally forgotten (has it really been almost a year? OMG), so thank you for the reminder! Since we don't hear about them from Lehndorff, I'm guessing they weren't nearly as important to Heinrich as the greyhounds were to Fritz.
just a single guard to make sure he's really dead for a night and to keep the cats and dogs from having a go at it
Incidentally, this is something I agonized over in "Grind." We have a hungry dog complaining about how there's nothing to eat, and there's a fresh corpse right there. :P But for obvious reasons I didn't want to touch that with a ten-foot-pole, and I decided to handwave it with "I don't know how long it takes before pets start eating their owners, but hopefully longer than 10 minutes?" And then cahn didn't call me on it while betaing, so I just went "la la la" in hopes no one would notice. ;)
There are other major plot holes that I agonized over, but so far, aside from Heinrich's mishandling of Fritz, no one's called me on them either, phew. My excuse for all is the deadline!
I return my breath of life to the beneficial nature that graciously lent it to me, and my body to the elements of which it is made.
Oooh, I remembered the second part but had forgotten the first! Thank you!
I'm curious if he had a template/reference for that earlier scenario, do we know?
I don't. I assumed all those were attempts to keep it small and ceremony-less. At night so that no one sees it happening and no crowd gathers spontaneously. No one following, ditto. A lantern because it's night and there are no streetlamps. ;) And possibly as opposed to something fancier, like illuminating the gardens or whatever.
Gladly and without regret, I return my breath of life to the beneficial nature that graciously lent it to me, and my body to the elements of which it is made. I lived as a philosopher and want to be buried as such, without pageantry and ceremonial pomp. I don't want to be dissected or embalmed.
Oh lol, of course FW would have wanted to save money on embalming! Heh.
I suppose it could have been religious, at that. I was shocked to find when my mother-in-law died that there are American Protestants (their pastor, in particular) who have decided religious opinions against cremation, because in his mind it was correlated with not taking resurrection seriously. (Most Protestants I know don't necessarily choose cremation, but have no real religious opinion on it.)
There were various ways of disposing of the bodies of royals in medieval and early modern Europe that the Church was opposed to, so I have no idea what FW's religious beliefs were on the subject.
Embalming was a sign of having money, and it only became cost-effective enough for common people to use it in the 19th century. Now, I don't know that that was FW's objection, but it's a reasonable guess!
This is as good a point as any to bring up the manner in which the Habsburgs were buried. To quote a website: In Vienna there was the custom of separate burials for monarchs, princes, dukes and higher-ranking nobles. That is why the corpses of the Habsburgs are in the Capuchin Crypt, the entrails in the crypt of St. Stephen's Cathedral and the hearts in the "Herzl Crypt" in the Augustinian Church.
There is a lively discussion among historians as to what exactly this ritual refers to. It is possible that the ancient Egyptian pharaohs were models. There were also practical reasons, because the corpse could be better preserved, especially in the case of longer evacuations and laying out. Political backgrounds tend to be excluded.
Separate entombment was practiced long before the Habsburgs. Especially during the crusades, when many crusaders died far from home, it was customary to remove their organs, to boil the corpse with red wine in order for it to better survive the long return journey. The organs of Barbararossa (1122-1190) and Richard the Lionheart (1157-1199) were buried in other places.
This unusual Habsburg protocol was practiced until 1878. The entrails of the dead were removed, wrapped in silk scarves, placed in alcohol and the containers soldered shut. The heart as the seat of the soul was given a special place in a heart urn.
Founder of this tradition is said to be Ferdinand III. (1608-1657). He wanted the hearts of the Habsburgs to be laid out in the Augustinian Church. His successor, Ferdinand IV., venerated the Madonna of Loreto with her shrine in the Augustinian Church and decreed that his heart should be buried there.
This custom was particularly widespread among the Habsburgs in the 16th and 17th centuries. Later there were many exceptions. Emperor Franz Joseph was strictly against it and his body was completely buried in the Capuchin crypt.
The last emperor, Charles I, who died in exile on Madeira, was also buried there, but his heart is in the Swiss monastery of Muri, together with the heart of his wife Zita. Her body, however, rests in the Capuchin crypt and her burial was considered the last official imperial burial in 1989.
The son of the two, Otto Habsburg, is also in the Capuchin crypt, but his heart was buried at his own request in the Hungarian monastery of Pannonhalma. He was raised as a child by the monks of the monastery and had a special bond with Hungary.
Nowadays, this type of burial is generally no longer allowed in Austria. However, exemptions can be requested from the Ministry of Health.
As I think I mentioned before, the sole female non-Habsburg buried in the Capuchin crypt (body intact, one assumes) was MT's governess Karoline von Fuchs-Mollard, "die Fuchsin", because MT ordered it. The sole male non-Habsburg is Charles de Lorraine, Prince Bishop of Trier, who died surprisingly when visiting Vienna in 1715. (As this was two years before MT was born, his being buried there had nothing to do with her later marrying one of his relations and everything with his high standing as a prince of the church, one assumes.)
Ha, sorry! I was on a bit of a roll this past week and it's too easy to get sucked into following new references and/or questions that present themselves while reading one thing.
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Re: Various questions from Mildred
Thank you! (Also, I thought 6 weeks was surprisingly short and was trying to come up with a reason. In my head when I wrote "Grind", my guess was 6 months.
Also...there's a whole book/longish essay on Fritz's last hours and funeral arrangements? Hmmm. That's Mildred catnip. :D
Re: Various questions from Mildred
The only point where he says something critical about the funeral arrangements etc. at all is when in the memorial service they play a new composition with Latin text by Luccessini, and the author chides that it being in Latin means that most of the people assembled in the Garnisonskirche would have understood a word, and provides the text with German translation in an appendix. (It's basically "Who was the greatest? FRITZ! Fuck Yeah!" in Latin, in several verses, listing individual accomplishments - the land winning by river draining projects, Silesia, making his enemies quail in the 7 Years War, philosopher and writer.)
The death scene, starting on the evening: They say the King had asked about the time, and when he was told that it was 9 pm, he supposedly said then it was time for him to retire. There are a lot of other stories, the veracity of which I can't swear to, so I won't repeat them here. Finally, his breath became shorter and shorter, the moaning sound became softer and softer, as is the habit with a marusmus senilis, and at last, he took his last breath on Thursday morning at 2 am 19 minutes, leaning forwards to one side, with the head pressed against the body of the chamber servant ("Kammerlakei") Strizky.
Present during the death of this great monarch were, aside from the two royal chamber hussars, Mr. Neumann and Mr. Schöning, various other servants. His excellency the state and cabinet minister Baron von Herzberg, Generallieutenant Count von Görtz, and General Major and Master of the Horse Schwerin were situated in the side chambers next door. The royal physician, Dr. Selle, immediately called his excellency state and cabinet minister von Herzberg, who then signalled to the stableboy waiting at the ramp of Sanssouci that the King was dead, and the later immediately brought the news to his excellency Generallieutenant von Röddich and to the Prince of Prussia, now the current King's Majesty.
FW2 was in Sanssouci within hours. (And moved in one of the rooms for the next few days until everything administartive was transferred to the Berlin town palace, though he resided in one of the guest rooms; Fritz' chamber was sealed off.) Because Fritz had strictly forbidden an autopsy and an embalming (his mother had done the same thing; AW was the outlier with explicitly requesting an autopsy after his death), and it was August, the funeral really happened very quickly because of the threatening decay, and the death mask was also taken quickly for that reason. Otoh, the three coffins Fritz was put in were all openened again before they found their final place in case the body had been shaken and moved through the transport and had to be put back into dignified position.
Alas, no mentioning as to what became of the dogs in the entire text that I could see! (Though maybe I overlooked it, it was a very quick reading on my part.) I remember this was one of our old questions.
Re: Various questions from Mildred
I noticed that! Manger had a similar problem when describing the Sanssouci vault and Fritz' wish to be buried there, but was a bit less embellishing: It's possible that he changed his mind over time, or that one didn't think it necessary to follow his instruction.
Kletschke, by the way, is this guy, military and court chaplain, and also responsible for and invested in reforming the military schools and the military orphanage in Potsdam during Fritz' last years, continuing that under FWII.
Because Fritz had strictly forbidden an autopsy and an embalming (his mother had done the same thing; AW was the outlier with explicitly requesting an autopsy after his death), and it was August, the funeral really happened very quickly because of the threatening decay, and the death mask was also taken quickly for that reason.
Yeah. FWIII wrote his own description of the day (which can be found in Vol. 3 of Volz' "Spiegel") - he was woken during the night, arrived shortly after his father, and mentions that two servants kept away the flies with green branches while Fritz' body was still in Sanssouci (the music room) and before he was washed with spirit alcohol. (No embalming, as we know, but they did make a couple of incisions to get rid of the water, and FWIII comments that if they could have done that when he was still alive, he might not have died.) Also: It has been said that the king probably never rested as gently as he does now that he is dead; for it must be remembered that the most blessed king lay on mattresses at all times during his lifetime and that the pillows in the coffin are extremely soft.
No mention of the dogs from him either. Which is almost surprising, given that he spent so much time in Sanssouci that day, but I guess they were brought away pretty quickly after Fritz' death, as to not be underfoot during the proceedings.
Re: Various questions from Mildred
Ah, thank you! I had been wondering who our author was.
the king probably never rested as gently as he does now that he is dead; for it must be remembered that the most blessed king lay on mattresses at all times during his lifetime
That tells you something about mattresses of the time!
No mention of the dogs from him either. Which is almost surprising, given that he spent so much time in Sanssouci that day, but I guess they were brought away pretty quickly after Fritz' death, as to not be underfoot during the proceedings.
Awww. I can see why, but Fritz would have wanted them underfoot. </3 (Sorry, I'm a dog person, can't help it. ;))
Re: Various questions from Mildred
Wait, why is this? Did they think he died of the dropsy?
Re: Various questions from Mildred
Re: Various questions from Mildred
maybe the whim struck him on one of those lovely evenings sitting out there, and he made a remark to that effect to a visitor, but I can assure you it really was no more than that
WHAT. What about the WHOLE VAULT he had constructed all the way back in the 1740s??? >:-(
It's basically "Who was the greatest? FRITZ! Fuck Yeah!"
LOLOL. Der Einzige! My fave.
Alas, no mentioning as to what became of the dogs in the entire text that I could see!
Alas! That was indeed one of our questions.
Re: Various questions from Mildred
I know. Kletschke sounds otherwise like a great, standup guy in the wiki entry Felis linked, campaigning tirelessly for direly needed reform schools, but that claim is a giant whopper. Even Mnager's "maybe he changed his mind late in the day?" is more of an effort to get around the "current day monarch, who is paying my salary and whom I want more money from for my big school project did go directly against wish from dead monarch" problem. There's just no way laudatory to both Kings you can say "and then FW2 must have thought, fuck you, Uncle Fritz, I know the perfect way to thank you for a life time of verbal abuse and a childhood spent in terror of you and all those teachers you ordered to taunt me as often as possible! I'll put your dead body next to your Dad's for the rest of eternity!"
It's a shame no one mentions the dogs. The dogs are important! We want to know!
Re: Various questions from Mildred
It's a shame no one mentions the dogs. The dogs are important! We want to know!
I know! Maybe one day we'll turn it up. Anybody know where we can find EC letters to her family from the late 1780s? Ferdinand's still alive, maybe she mentioned it to him.
Re: Various questions from Mildred
LOL! I love your way with words.
...okay, I have to ask, why would you forbid an autopsy and embalming? I can see why AW would request one, but as a child of the post-Enlightenment world I don't really see what the problem is in getting an autopsy. Is it because it messes with the dead body and people thought that was weird??
Re: Various questions from Mildred
Now today, I know a good share of people who don't want to be embalmed, but they usually buy burial places under trees in a "Friedwald" so their dead bodies can become one with nature, if they don't opt to be cremated to begin with. Wanting to become one with nature definitely wasn't an option for SD, though! So I'm left there with "she probably thought doctors cutting her open would be terribly undignified"?
Re: Various questions from Mildred
Fritz, as we all know (contra Manger and Kletschke), wanted a simple funeral because he believed death was the end, and he wanted to be buried like a philosopher, not a king. I always assumed "no embalming" was part of that.
But SD. Huh. I would have assumed she would have gone full-blown royal treatment! Maybe it was modesty/squeamishness.
Re: Various questions from Mildred
Re: Various questions from Mildred
Yeah, I think that's certainly a big part of it in Fritz' case, even including the "return to nature" aspect, see the introductory context in his will:
Gladly and without regret, I return my breath of life to the beneficial nature that graciously lent it to me, and my body to the elements of which it is made. I lived as a philosopher and want to be buried as such, without pageantry and ceremonial pomp. I don't want to be dissected or embalmed. [Followed by the vault details and the "like Moritz von Nassau, who was buried in a bosk" reference, i.e. more nature.]
That said, and Zimmermann aside, no autopsy (as opposed to no "kingly" embalming) might still have been an expression of his control issues, i.e. not wanting anybody to mess with his body after his death? Not sure how much his pragmatic belief that death was the end would have affected that, or what the general view of autopsies was around the time. But in addition to mentioning it in both versions of his will (see below), he also makes sure to include it in two "in case I get killed" instructions in 1757 (pre-Leuthen) and 1758 (pre-Zorndorf), solely, without mentioning embalming as well. So it must have been rather important to him. (The German version from 1758: Man soll mir nicht öffnen, sondern stille nach Sanssouci bringen und in meinem Garten begraben lassen.) By the way, the first of his wartime "in case I die" instructions from 1741 actually says he wants to be cremated (in the Roman style) and buried in an urn grave at Rheinsberg. Interesting to see the changes over time.
Speaking of! I just realized that there were two versions of his will, 1752 and 1769, and that the second is slightly different and condensed when it comes to the burial instructions, i.e. he left out the whole dramatic "third day at midnight, by latern light, nobody following" part in the second one. (The middle step being a simple "at night" in 1757.) I'm curious if he had a template/reference for that earlier scenario, do we know?
Also, Preuss says that the 1769 testament was opened and read by the Minister of State v. Hertzberg, on August 18, 1786, at the castle of Berlin, in the presence of the new king, of the princes Heinrich and Ferdinand, and of the Minister of State Count Finck of Finckenstein, which made me wonder if we have any comments from Heinrich (or Ferdinand) about FWII disregarding Fritz' wishes?
Re: Various questions from Mildred
I'm sure Heinrich would have said something on this matter to his personal circle of friends, but alas, Lehndorff's diaries from that time are lost. Anyway, I just checked with Ziebura again who gives Heinrich's precise orders for how his dead body and funeral are to be handled, and while he doesn't mention either prohibiting or allowing autopsy or embalming, the rest is very Fritz like, as befits l'autre moi-meme, especially point 5 (wants to be dressed in his oldest uniform, and if his legs are swollen, the boots can be cut upon, he doesn't want to be a disgusting spectacle for the world), 10) (no torches around his body when it's laid out, just a single guard to make sure he's really dead for a night and to keep the cats and dogs from having a go at it, no flowers and other decorations on his coffin), and 9) Count Roedern is supposed to remind the King (FW3) that the Comte de la Roche-Raymon is in charge of the funeral and that Heinrich wants to be buried at Rheinsberg in the vault he built for himself, with the epitaph he wrote.
BTW, cats and dogs: I never realised this before, but that means Heinrich must have kept some at Rheinsberg, or people from his household did.
Re: Various questions from Mildred
Evidently! I think I had raised an eyebrow at that when reading Ziebura, but then totally forgotten (has it really been almost a year? OMG), so thank you for the reminder! Since we don't hear about them from Lehndorff, I'm guessing they weren't nearly as important to Heinrich as the greyhounds were to Fritz.
Re: Various questions from Mildred
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Aw, I remember reading these points but had forgotten about them. Heinrich <3333
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Pesne painting
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Incidentally, this is something I agonized over in "Grind." We have a hungry dog complaining about how there's nothing to eat, and there's a fresh corpse right there. :P But for obvious reasons I didn't want to touch that with a ten-foot-pole, and I decided to handwave it with "I don't know how long it takes before pets start eating their owners, but hopefully longer than 10 minutes?" And then
There are other major plot holes that I agonized over, but so far, aside from Heinrich's mishandling of Fritz, no one's called me on them either, phew. My excuse for all is the deadline!
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Dog diets
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Oooh, I remembered the second part but had forgotten the first! Thank you!
I'm curious if he had a template/reference for that earlier scenario, do we know?
I don't. I assumed all those were attempts to keep it small and ceremony-less. At night so that no one sees it happening and no crowd gathers spontaneously. No one following, ditto. A lantern because it's night and there are no streetlamps. ;) And possibly as opposed to something fancier, like illuminating the gardens or whatever.
But maybe he had a template in mind!
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Ohhhh, I really like that.
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I suppose it could have been religious, at that. I was shocked to find when my mother-in-law died that there are American Protestants (their pastor, in particular) who have decided religious opinions against cremation, because in his mind it was correlated with not taking resurrection seriously. (Most Protestants I know don't necessarily choose cremation, but have no real religious opinion on it.)
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Embalming was a sign of having money, and it only became cost-effective enough for common people to use it in the 19th century. Now, I don't know that that was FW's objection, but it's a reasonable guess!
Re: Various questions from Mildred
In Vienna there was the custom of separate burials for monarchs, princes, dukes and higher-ranking nobles. That is why the corpses of the Habsburgs are in the Capuchin Crypt, the entrails in the crypt of St. Stephen's Cathedral and the hearts in the "Herzl Crypt" in the Augustinian Church.
There is a lively discussion among historians as to what exactly this ritual refers to. It is possible that the ancient Egyptian pharaohs were models. There were also practical reasons, because the corpse could be better preserved, especially in the case of longer evacuations and laying out. Political backgrounds tend to be excluded.
Separate entombment was practiced long before the Habsburgs. Especially during the crusades, when many crusaders died far from home, it was customary to remove their organs, to boil the corpse with red wine in order for it to better survive the long return journey. The organs of Barbararossa (1122-1190) and Richard the Lionheart (1157-1199) were buried in other places.
This unusual Habsburg protocol was practiced until 1878. The entrails of the dead were removed, wrapped in silk scarves, placed in alcohol and the containers soldered shut. The heart as the seat of the soul was given a special place in a heart urn.
Founder of this tradition is said to be Ferdinand III. (1608-1657). He wanted the hearts of the Habsburgs to be laid out in the Augustinian Church. His successor, Ferdinand IV., venerated the Madonna of Loreto with her shrine in the Augustinian Church and decreed that his heart should be buried there.
This custom was particularly widespread among the Habsburgs in the 16th and 17th centuries. Later there were many exceptions. Emperor Franz Joseph was strictly against it and his body was completely buried in the Capuchin crypt.
The last emperor, Charles I, who died in exile on Madeira, was also buried there, but his heart is in the Swiss monastery of Muri, together with the heart of his wife Zita. Her body, however, rests in the Capuchin crypt and her burial was considered the last official imperial burial in 1989.
The son of the two, Otto Habsburg, is also in the Capuchin crypt, but his heart was buried at his own request in the Hungarian monastery of Pannonhalma. He was raised as a child by the monks of the monastery and had a special bond with Hungary.
Nowadays, this type of burial is generally no longer allowed in Austria. However, exemptions can be requested from the Ministry of Health.
As I think I mentioned before, the sole female non-Habsburg buried in the Capuchin crypt (body intact, one assumes) was MT's governess Karoline von Fuchs-Mollard, "die Fuchsin", because MT ordered it. The sole male non-Habsburg is Charles de Lorraine, Prince Bishop of Trier, who died surprisingly when visiting Vienna in 1715. (As this was two years before MT was born, his being buried there had nothing to do with her later marrying one of his relations and everything with his high standing as a prince of the church, one assumes.)
Freaking weird Habsburg burial protocols
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Re: Various questions from Mildred
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