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Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 24
Every post I can't believe this is still going on, and yet, here we are :D
Glasow was the son of a "Zeugleutnant" of a Zeughaus in Brieg, Silesia. He had joined the infantry regiment at Brief when still a very young man of 16 years. The King took him out of it due to his advantageous form, made him a chamber hussar and planned to educate this young man, whom he also had taught by various teachers. He liked him enormously, and thus usually called him by his first name: Karlchen
(Mes amies, you know that Karlchen is little Charles, a form of address hat denotes affection, right? Much like FW, in a good mood, occasionally speaks of Fritzchen, so noted by Seckendorf Jr. early in his diary.)
When the King had to take to the field in 1756, the Secret Chamberlain Fredersdorf couldn't join the King on his campaign due to his long term illness of which he did die not too long thereafter. So the King transferred everything to Glasow, whom he made his valet on this occasion, had tailored some very beautiful civilian clothing for him, and gave him his personal treasury and the supervision about his household, despite Glasow still being very young.
For a few days, the King told him personally how he had to run everything; especially, he taught him how to do the accounts about the income and expenditure of the royal household. Now there was a particular secretary in charge of this, but that one remained with Fredersdorf, and wasn't called to Dresden until the opening of the next campaign on the following year in the spring of 1757; until then Völker, who was a smart fellow, administrated this office together with Glasow.
(Not to spoil anything, but Völker will be the villain of this tale. It's the first time I've heard of his existence; he's introduced only in the previous page as "a man named Völker" who supposedly did the much rumored poison attempt together with Glasow, a story Niicolai sets out to rectify. How Völker got into this story pre Nicolai, I have no idea; note that neither Lehndorff nor Kalckreuth nor Münchow nor von Henckel mention him at all. I haven't seen mention of any "Völker" in 20th century biographies, either, Mildred, have you?
ETA: Aha and shame on me. Not Völker, but Henckel von Donnersmarck, reading his journal entry again, which I just linked to, does mention a "Wöllner" as Glasow's good friend who got also arrested and condemned to running the gauntlet. Okay then, and apologies, Nicolai, there was indeed a second person involved./ETA
The King showed even more grace to Glasow, and often made him large presents; but Glasow was not always grateful. When the King had his winter quarters in Dresden in the winter of 1756, Glasow started to consort with two women. The King didn't like his people to have this kind of relationships at all; and in this particular case, additional circumstances were there why these relationships should be suspicious and dislikeable to the King for political reasons.
(Interestingly, Nicolai does not name the Countess Brühl, as opposed to Henckel, Lehndorff and Kalckreuth. Possibly because they are nobles writing their diaries and dictating memoirs and thus not having to fear law suits, whereas Nicolai is a commoner writing for publication?)
He therefore strictly forbade Glasow this kind of consorting, but the later didn't stop doing it. Glasow, whom the King had sleeping in the room next to his, wasn't in his bed for entire nights, and when he was missing, the King could easily guess where he had to be spending his time. Now the man who encouraged young Glasow in this kind of loose living because he could take advantage from his wastefulness was the King's Kammerlakei and Treasurer Völker.
The King knew very well about the connection between these two men, and thus blamed Völker for Glasow's debauchings, as he knew Völker as an otherwise not at all foolish man, and held him to be the seducer of the young and inexperienced Glasow.
Now despite the King tried to improve his valet's behavior through harsh reprimands, threats and punishments, his affairs grew steadily worse when the King near the end of March 1757 took his main quarters at Lockwitz, a small mile away from Dresden. Glasow continued to keep up his relationships in Dresden. Nearly every night, he rode to Dresden. The King couldn't fail to notice this and grew even more disgruntled. However, as Glasow otherwise was still in favor with the King, it was all too understandable that no one dared the tell the King about the exact nature of the consorting this favourite was doing.
Glasow took into his service a fellow named B*** who until then had been in service with an officer from the Garde du Corps who lived near Berlin, but then kicked him out in disgrace some time later. This B*** subsequently went to his old master. B*** now started to talk very loudly about Glasow's suspcious relationships in Dresden, and that Völker was seducing him into them, and added that if the King only knew the true circumstances, whom he should be told about, both of them would suffer evil consequences.
Völker knew that what this fellow was saying was the truth, and he grew greatly afraid that through either him or his master the King should find out the true circumstances. He therefore persuaded Glasow that it was necessary to get rid of this fellow for their shared safety's sake.
Through Völker's persuasions, the young and inconsiderate Glasow was seduced to start a very serious enterprise worthy of punishment. Völker wrote an order of arrest to the commander of Magdeburg in the name of the King, Glasow used the King's small seal, B*** was arrested, and sent via transport to Magdeburg.
The commander in Magdeburg thought the order of arrest which hadn't been signed by the King to be suspicious. Some claim that it had been signed by the King's name, but in an unreadable fashion. The Commander now sent the original arrest warrant to the King, and asked whether the King truly wished the arrestant to be brought to this fortress.
The King was not a little amazed about this turn of events. He investigated further, and Vöker's own handwriting testified against him, and proved he had seduced Glasow into such a punishable abuse of the royal authority. The King was incensed. He ordered that the prisoner was to be released at once. He sent Glasow for a year to the fortress Spandau, and Völker had to run the gauntlet twentyfour times, and later was put into the third bataillon of the guard as a common soldier. The type of punishment alone proves enough that a crime such a poisoning can't have beeen an issue. Also, people who are well informed have testified the complete truth of all of the above named circumstances to me.
The King had to punish the irresponsible abuse of his authority by Glasow, but he still kept being fond of him, as he seemed to be convinced that Glasow as a young man had simply been seduced, and hadn't acted out of malice. He even asked how (Glasow) was doing during his imprisonment. If Glasow had survived the time of his arrest, there can't be any doubt that he'd been accepted back into the King's favour, and might even have been put back on his old posts. However, he died in Spandau three weeks before his term of imprisonment was over. When the King heard about his death, he cried a few tears, and was even more angry with Völker, whom he saw as the seducer of the poor young man.
Völker accepted his fate, and during the war became a sutler. After the war, he found opportunity to leave the army through the fact hat he could create Russian leather, got his dismissal, and started to work in the Russian leather factory of the manufacturer Schneider in Berlin. As he didn't have luck in this art, he then found a way to get a job in Prussia via the recently installed tobacco administration. Carelessly, he signed a report which ended up being read by the King. The King noticed the name. He asked, and when he learned that this was the same man who had been in his service, he had him casheered at once and ordered to put im into a garnison regiment, where Völker died only a few years ago.
This ends the Nicolai version of the tale of Glasow (and Völker). If you want to refresh your memory on what people at the time it happened (i.e. 1750s) or shortly thereafter wrote about Glasow, the relevent Rheinsberg collection is here. There are just enough common elements to show Nicolai got his story from people who themselves had at least some part of the tale, but the differences are still startling and fascinating.
Most of all, of course, "Völker". Now, see above, I just saw there was not a "Völker" but a "Wöllner, the King's footman and coffeemaker" who got indeed arrested and punished along with Glasow according to Henckel von Donnersmarck, Heinrich's AD who was around at the time. However, Henckel seems to have had no doubt that Glasow was the main culprit, and far from being a seduced youth manipulated by someone else was "the tyrant of the Royal Household" in the post-Fredersdorf era. Sadly, Nicolai doesn't say where he has the story from, other than that the people are trustworthy. The other pro-Glasow source we have is Kalckreuth, but Kalckreuth blames Glasow's dismissed servant for wrongly accusing him and doesn't say anything about Völker/Wöllner at all, so I don't think Kalkreuth is Nicolai's source. (My other reason for doubting it is that Heinrich doesn't get mentioned once in six volumes of anecdotes, and I think if Nicolai had an in with Heinrich's formerboyfriend AD, there's be some stories at least co-starring him.)
Next: "Karlchen". Glasow's first two names were Christian Friedrich, without a "Carl" (or Karl). However, there was, of course, Carl "Carel" the favoured page, and I suspect in the retellings, he and Glasow might have gotten mixed up somewhat. (It was also Carel who got the teachers.)
As we now know due to the state archive letters from Fredesdorf's actual successor to Fredersdorf, Glasow did indeed abuse a seal, only it was Fredersdorf's, not Fritz'. And Nicolai was right in that a poisoning attempt is unlikely to have happened if you look at the punishment, but nothing in Fritz' granting mercy in reaction to Glasow's father's petition makes it sound as if Glasow would only have been in Spandau for a year if he hadn't died.
Lastly: Fritz objecting to Glasow's "consorting with women", and noticing Glasow's nightly absence: I don't think Nicolai is trying to insinuate something - as valet, it would have been Glasow's duty to be available next door or in the King's room itself -, and he's far less blatant than Kalckreuth or Lehndorff about Glasow's good looks originally getting him noticed by Fritz, but he does mention it. Otoh, Nicolai unlike Lehndorff and writing with the hindsight of knowing Fredersdorf would die does not mention the possibility of jealousy and presents it as straightforward that Glasow got the valet job because Frederdorf was too ill.
So, friends, what do you think? Were Glasow's shady actions due to manipulations by Völker/Wöllner or was the later just a confederate? Is it significant that Völker/Wöllner was the coffeemaker (though I still think an actual poison attempt would have had far more serious consequences)? And who were Nicolai's absolutely trustworthy sources he can't name by name? (Very much as opposed to his sources elsewhere about other things, including the Katte anecdotes, where he gives the names each time.)
(Mes amies, you know that Karlchen is little Charles, a form of address hat denotes affection, right? Much like FW, in a good mood, occasionally speaks of Fritzchen, so noted by Seckendorf Jr. early in his diary.)
When the King had to take to the field in 1756, the Secret Chamberlain Fredersdorf couldn't join the King on his campaign due to his long term illness of which he did die not too long thereafter. So the King transferred everything to Glasow, whom he made his valet on this occasion, had tailored some very beautiful civilian clothing for him, and gave him his personal treasury and the supervision about his household, despite Glasow still being very young.
For a few days, the King told him personally how he had to run everything; especially, he taught him how to do the accounts about the income and expenditure of the royal household. Now there was a particular secretary in charge of this, but that one remained with Fredersdorf, and wasn't called to Dresden until the opening of the next campaign on the following year in the spring of 1757; until then Völker, who was a smart fellow, administrated this office together with Glasow.
(Not to spoil anything, but Völker will be the villain of this tale. It's the first time I've heard of his existence; he's introduced only in the previous page as "a man named Völker" who supposedly did the much rumored poison attempt together with Glasow, a story Niicolai sets out to rectify. How Völker got into this story pre Nicolai, I have no idea; note that neither Lehndorff nor Kalckreuth nor Münchow nor von Henckel mention him at all. I haven't seen mention of any "Völker" in 20th century biographies, either, Mildred, have you?
ETA: Aha and shame on me. Not Völker, but Henckel von Donnersmarck, reading his journal entry again, which I just linked to, does mention a "Wöllner" as Glasow's good friend who got also arrested and condemned to running the gauntlet. Okay then, and apologies, Nicolai, there was indeed a second person involved./ETA
The King showed even more grace to Glasow, and often made him large presents; but Glasow was not always grateful. When the King had his winter quarters in Dresden in the winter of 1756, Glasow started to consort with two women. The King didn't like his people to have this kind of relationships at all; and in this particular case, additional circumstances were there why these relationships should be suspicious and dislikeable to the King for political reasons.
(Interestingly, Nicolai does not name the Countess Brühl, as opposed to Henckel, Lehndorff and Kalckreuth. Possibly because they are nobles writing their diaries and dictating memoirs and thus not having to fear law suits, whereas Nicolai is a commoner writing for publication?)
He therefore strictly forbade Glasow this kind of consorting, but the later didn't stop doing it. Glasow, whom the King had sleeping in the room next to his, wasn't in his bed for entire nights, and when he was missing, the King could easily guess where he had to be spending his time. Now the man who encouraged young Glasow in this kind of loose living because he could take advantage from his wastefulness was the King's Kammerlakei and Treasurer Völker.
The King knew very well about the connection between these two men, and thus blamed Völker for Glasow's debauchings, as he knew Völker as an otherwise not at all foolish man, and held him to be the seducer of the young and inexperienced Glasow.
Now despite the King tried to improve his valet's behavior through harsh reprimands, threats and punishments, his affairs grew steadily worse when the King near the end of March 1757 took his main quarters at Lockwitz, a small mile away from Dresden. Glasow continued to keep up his relationships in Dresden. Nearly every night, he rode to Dresden. The King couldn't fail to notice this and grew even more disgruntled. However, as Glasow otherwise was still in favor with the King, it was all too understandable that no one dared the tell the King about the exact nature of the consorting this favourite was doing.
Glasow took into his service a fellow named B*** who until then had been in service with an officer from the Garde du Corps who lived near Berlin, but then kicked him out in disgrace some time later. This B*** subsequently went to his old master. B*** now started to talk very loudly about Glasow's suspcious relationships in Dresden, and that Völker was seducing him into them, and added that if the King only knew the true circumstances, whom he should be told about, both of them would suffer evil consequences.
Völker knew that what this fellow was saying was the truth, and he grew greatly afraid that through either him or his master the King should find out the true circumstances. He therefore persuaded Glasow that it was necessary to get rid of this fellow for their shared safety's sake.
Through Völker's persuasions, the young and inconsiderate Glasow was seduced to start a very serious enterprise worthy of punishment. Völker wrote an order of arrest to the commander of Magdeburg in the name of the King, Glasow used the King's small seal, B*** was arrested, and sent via transport to Magdeburg.
The commander in Magdeburg thought the order of arrest which hadn't been signed by the King to be suspicious. Some claim that it had been signed by the King's name, but in an unreadable fashion. The Commander now sent the original arrest warrant to the King, and asked whether the King truly wished the arrestant to be brought to this fortress.
The King was not a little amazed about this turn of events. He investigated further, and Vöker's own handwriting testified against him, and proved he had seduced Glasow into such a punishable abuse of the royal authority. The King was incensed. He ordered that the prisoner was to be released at once. He sent Glasow for a year to the fortress Spandau, and Völker had to run the gauntlet twentyfour times, and later was put into the third bataillon of the guard as a common soldier. The type of punishment alone proves enough that a crime such a poisoning can't have beeen an issue. Also, people who are well informed have testified the complete truth of all of the above named circumstances to me.
The King had to punish the irresponsible abuse of his authority by Glasow, but he still kept being fond of him, as he seemed to be convinced that Glasow as a young man had simply been seduced, and hadn't acted out of malice. He even asked how (Glasow) was doing during his imprisonment. If Glasow had survived the time of his arrest, there can't be any doubt that he'd been accepted back into the King's favour, and might even have been put back on his old posts. However, he died in Spandau three weeks before his term of imprisonment was over. When the King heard about his death, he cried a few tears, and was even more angry with Völker, whom he saw as the seducer of the poor young man.
Völker accepted his fate, and during the war became a sutler. After the war, he found opportunity to leave the army through the fact hat he could create Russian leather, got his dismissal, and started to work in the Russian leather factory of the manufacturer Schneider in Berlin. As he didn't have luck in this art, he then found a way to get a job in Prussia via the recently installed tobacco administration. Carelessly, he signed a report which ended up being read by the King. The King noticed the name. He asked, and when he learned that this was the same man who had been in his service, he had him casheered at once and ordered to put im into a garnison regiment, where Völker died only a few years ago.
This ends the Nicolai version of the tale of Glasow (and Völker). If you want to refresh your memory on what people at the time it happened (i.e. 1750s) or shortly thereafter wrote about Glasow, the relevent Rheinsberg collection is here. There are just enough common elements to show Nicolai got his story from people who themselves had at least some part of the tale, but the differences are still startling and fascinating.
Most of all, of course, "Völker". Now, see above, I just saw there was not a "Völker" but a "Wöllner, the King's footman and coffeemaker" who got indeed arrested and punished along with Glasow according to Henckel von Donnersmarck, Heinrich's AD who was around at the time. However, Henckel seems to have had no doubt that Glasow was the main culprit, and far from being a seduced youth manipulated by someone else was "the tyrant of the Royal Household" in the post-Fredersdorf era. Sadly, Nicolai doesn't say where he has the story from, other than that the people are trustworthy. The other pro-Glasow source we have is Kalckreuth, but Kalckreuth blames Glasow's dismissed servant for wrongly accusing him and doesn't say anything about Völker/Wöllner at all, so I don't think Kalkreuth is Nicolai's source. (My other reason for doubting it is that Heinrich doesn't get mentioned once in six volumes of anecdotes, and I think if Nicolai had an in with Heinrich's former
Next: "Karlchen". Glasow's first two names were Christian Friedrich, without a "Carl" (or Karl). However, there was, of course, Carl "Carel" the favoured page, and I suspect in the retellings, he and Glasow might have gotten mixed up somewhat. (It was also Carel who got the teachers.)
As we now know due to the state archive letters from Fredesdorf's actual successor to Fredersdorf, Glasow did indeed abuse a seal, only it was Fredersdorf's, not Fritz'. And Nicolai was right in that a poisoning attempt is unlikely to have happened if you look at the punishment, but nothing in Fritz' granting mercy in reaction to Glasow's father's petition makes it sound as if Glasow would only have been in Spandau for a year if he hadn't died.
Lastly: Fritz objecting to Glasow's "consorting with women", and noticing Glasow's nightly absence: I don't think Nicolai is trying to insinuate something - as valet, it would have been Glasow's duty to be available next door or in the King's room itself -, and he's far less blatant than Kalckreuth or Lehndorff about Glasow's good looks originally getting him noticed by Fritz, but he does mention it. Otoh, Nicolai unlike Lehndorff and writing with the hindsight of knowing Fredersdorf would die does not mention the possibility of jealousy and presents it as straightforward that Glasow got the valet job because Frederdorf was too ill.
So, friends, what do you think? Were Glasow's shady actions due to manipulations by Völker/Wöllner or was the later just a confederate? Is it significant that Völker/Wöllner was the coffeemaker (though I still think an actual poison attempt would have had far more serious consequences)? And who were Nicolai's absolutely trustworthy sources he can't name by name? (Very much as opposed to his sources elsewhere about other things, including the Katte anecdotes, where he gives the names each time.)
Edited 2021-02-23 12:29 (UTC)
Because I would feel like a cruel Royal Reader indeed if I didn't translate it for Mildred, instead of just summarizing it.
I previously didn't dare to protest against the commonly shared tale that (Katte) had been with the King and the Crown Prince in Wesel. But now Landrat Baron v. Hertefeld zu Boetzelaar near Xanten has been kind enough to share with me from the trustworthy narration of his late father the true circumstances of the arrest of the unfortunate Herr v. Katte. I believe my readers will thank me for sharing the both interesting and trustworthy news in this gentleman's own words.
"My father, born in the year 1709, served in the year 1730 with the Gens d'Armes at a Lieutenant, together with his unfortunate friend, Lieutenant von Katte. The later, Lieutenant von Keith and Lieutenant von Spaen were the confidants of the then crown prince, who were meant to support his escape to England. Katte remained in Berlin and was supposed to follow the Crown Prince via Leipzig through the HRE. Keith, who was stationed in Wesel, had the task to prepare the flight. Spaen, then a Lieutenant with the tall guard at Potsdam, knew about the plans but had no active part in them. The escape of the Crown Prince was supposed to happen in the moment when the King departed from Wesel; for as the Crown Prince usually travelled behind the King from their various stops, he would have won a few hours before his escape became known to the King.
Katte had taken a leave of absence when the King had departed from Berlin in order to visit the countryside. He delayed his departure to the date when he supposed the King would arrive at Wesel, and the need to repair his carriage kept him a day longer than he wanted in Berlin. At the evening of his departure he met Major v. Asseburg from the Gens d'Armes who told him with a frightened face: "Are you still here? I am amazed!"
Katte replied to him: I travel this very night. Asseburg knew that a courier had brought the news of the Crown Prince's arrest, but he couldn't say more due to the distrust which was then dominating in Berlin. At night, Colonel von Pannewitz, the commander of the Gens d'Armes, received the order to arrest Lieutenant von Katte; he delayed this until morning in the hope Katte would have been escaped by then, then he sent the regiment's AD to him who still found him and brought him the order to immediately report to the Colonel. At 8 o'clock in the morning my father, who had then guard duty, the order to send a subaltern officer and four men to the Colonel's quarters; and at half past 8 Katte was brought in the Colonel's carriage in the company of the AD and the guard to my father in the Gens d'Armes guards house, with the order: he was now responsible for the prisoner with his head, to be transmitted from one officer on guard's duty to the next.
When Katte was transported to Küstrin, my father took leave of him with the words: j'espére de vous revoir bientot; and (Katte) replied: Non, mon ami, le Tyran demande du sang. He gave my father some books as presents in which he'd written his name, as a souvenir, and I still own some of them.
Spaen was arrested the very same day at Potsdam by Colonel von Kneseback. After Katte's death, he was casheered, and brought to Spandau for a yar; immedately after his release, he went to the Netherlands to serve there, and died in the year 1768 at his country estate Bellevue near KLeve, as a Generalmajor in Dutch service. He told everyone that the Crown Prince had planned to go to England in order to marry an English Princess; and that, if Katte had managed to escape, he himself would have lost his head for sure, since the raging King would have demanded another sacrifice. Frederick the Great had done nothing for Spaen after his ascension; but when he travelled to Kleve in the year 1763, he did take lodgings with General von Spaen, was very gracious and confidential towards him, reminded him of stories of their shared youth, but did not mention the year 1730 with one word; which is why General von Spaen used to joke that the King had an excellent memory right up to 1730.
Keith had been in Wesel when the Crown Prince was arrested. The later found means and ways to send a note to him, on which he'd written with a pencil: Sauvez-vous, tout es découvert. Keith recognizes the handwriting, goes to his stable, puts his saddle on his horse himself and under the pretense of a leisurely ride he happily leaves through the Brün Gate, from which he gallops until Dingden, the first village belonging to Münster, one mile away from Wesel; from there, he hurries through upper Wesel county straight the The Hague, where he goes to an ambassador - I forgot whether my father said it was the English or the French ambassador -, tells him of his fate, and pleads for his protection. The envoy promises said protection to him, and escorts him personally to the mansard roof, and orders his valet to serve this gentleman exclusively, and not to tell anyone else that there is a stranger lodging in this house. The envoy advised Keith to go to England and from there to Portugal, where foreign officers were sought after.
Meanwhile, the King was angry to the utmost degree that Keith had escaped him. At once Colonel von Dumoulin, later General lieutenant von Dumoulin, had to take up the pursuit of Keith, and he was given a letter to the King's envoy at the Hague, which ordered the later to assist Dumoulin in demanding Keith should be surrendered. Dumoulin and Meinertzhagen learned that one day a foreign officer had arrived and had gone to the envoy in question, without ever having been seen again. Their spies told them that in the mansard roof of the envoy's house, light was burning late at night, and that this room had not been used before. From these circumstances they concluded that Keith was hiding at the envoy's, and now their spy didn't let the envoy's house out of his sight. The envoy learned of this and that Keith's habit of reading late at night had given him away.
The following morning, the envoy came to Keith and told him: You are betrayed. Your King has spies after you, so be ready, I'll bring you to Scheveningen today, and everything there is ready for your transport to England. In the evening, he brought Keith in his own carriage to Scheveningen, and gave him letters of reccomendation for London, and didn't leave him until he saw him depart on a fisherman's boat. Keith happily arrived in England, from where he went into Portueguese service armed with reccommendations from the court. A few days later, Dumoulin learned by accident that Keith had escaped. He had gone to Scheveningen in order to see the fishermen arrive and was surprised that they dared to brave the sea in such little boats. One of the fishermen told him: With such a boat, we even make the trip to England; I'm just returning from there, and have transported a foreign officer. Dumoulin demanded a description of the officer, and from the circumstance that said man had been crosseyed, he concluded that it had been Keith.
Keith returned to Berlin in the year 1741, was appointed Colonel lieutenant and Master of the Horse, and became curator at the Academy of Sciences. My father knew Herr von Keith very well, and was told by him the way of his escape.
V. Hertefeld."
I previously didn't dare to protest against the commonly shared tale that (Katte) had been with the King and the Crown Prince in Wesel. But now Landrat Baron v. Hertefeld zu Boetzelaar near Xanten has been kind enough to share with me from the trustworthy narration of his late father the true circumstances of the arrest of the unfortunate Herr v. Katte. I believe my readers will thank me for sharing the both interesting and trustworthy news in this gentleman's own words.
"My father, born in the year 1709, served in the year 1730 with the Gens d'Armes at a Lieutenant, together with his unfortunate friend, Lieutenant von Katte. The later, Lieutenant von Keith and Lieutenant von Spaen were the confidants of the then crown prince, who were meant to support his escape to England. Katte remained in Berlin and was supposed to follow the Crown Prince via Leipzig through the HRE. Keith, who was stationed in Wesel, had the task to prepare the flight. Spaen, then a Lieutenant with the tall guard at Potsdam, knew about the plans but had no active part in them. The escape of the Crown Prince was supposed to happen in the moment when the King departed from Wesel; for as the Crown Prince usually travelled behind the King from their various stops, he would have won a few hours before his escape became known to the King.
Katte had taken a leave of absence when the King had departed from Berlin in order to visit the countryside. He delayed his departure to the date when he supposed the King would arrive at Wesel, and the need to repair his carriage kept him a day longer than he wanted in Berlin. At the evening of his departure he met Major v. Asseburg from the Gens d'Armes who told him with a frightened face: "Are you still here? I am amazed!"
Katte replied to him: I travel this very night. Asseburg knew that a courier had brought the news of the Crown Prince's arrest, but he couldn't say more due to the distrust which was then dominating in Berlin. At night, Colonel von Pannewitz, the commander of the Gens d'Armes, received the order to arrest Lieutenant von Katte; he delayed this until morning in the hope Katte would have been escaped by then, then he sent the regiment's AD to him who still found him and brought him the order to immediately report to the Colonel. At 8 o'clock in the morning my father, who had then guard duty, the order to send a subaltern officer and four men to the Colonel's quarters; and at half past 8 Katte was brought in the Colonel's carriage in the company of the AD and the guard to my father in the Gens d'Armes guards house, with the order: he was now responsible for the prisoner with his head, to be transmitted from one officer on guard's duty to the next.
When Katte was transported to Küstrin, my father took leave of him with the words: j'espére de vous revoir bientot; and (Katte) replied: Non, mon ami, le Tyran demande du sang. He gave my father some books as presents in which he'd written his name, as a souvenir, and I still own some of them.
Spaen was arrested the very same day at Potsdam by Colonel von Kneseback. After Katte's death, he was casheered, and brought to Spandau for a yar; immedately after his release, he went to the Netherlands to serve there, and died in the year 1768 at his country estate Bellevue near KLeve, as a Generalmajor in Dutch service. He told everyone that the Crown Prince had planned to go to England in order to marry an English Princess; and that, if Katte had managed to escape, he himself would have lost his head for sure, since the raging King would have demanded another sacrifice. Frederick the Great had done nothing for Spaen after his ascension; but when he travelled to Kleve in the year 1763, he did take lodgings with General von Spaen, was very gracious and confidential towards him, reminded him of stories of their shared youth, but did not mention the year 1730 with one word; which is why General von Spaen used to joke that the King had an excellent memory right up to 1730.
Keith had been in Wesel when the Crown Prince was arrested. The later found means and ways to send a note to him, on which he'd written with a pencil: Sauvez-vous, tout es découvert. Keith recognizes the handwriting, goes to his stable, puts his saddle on his horse himself and under the pretense of a leisurely ride he happily leaves through the Brün Gate, from which he gallops until Dingden, the first village belonging to Münster, one mile away from Wesel; from there, he hurries through upper Wesel county straight the The Hague, where he goes to an ambassador - I forgot whether my father said it was the English or the French ambassador -, tells him of his fate, and pleads for his protection. The envoy promises said protection to him, and escorts him personally to the mansard roof, and orders his valet to serve this gentleman exclusively, and not to tell anyone else that there is a stranger lodging in this house. The envoy advised Keith to go to England and from there to Portugal, where foreign officers were sought after.
Meanwhile, the King was angry to the utmost degree that Keith had escaped him. At once Colonel von Dumoulin, later General lieutenant von Dumoulin, had to take up the pursuit of Keith, and he was given a letter to the King's envoy at the Hague, which ordered the later to assist Dumoulin in demanding Keith should be surrendered. Dumoulin and Meinertzhagen learned that one day a foreign officer had arrived and had gone to the envoy in question, without ever having been seen again. Their spies told them that in the mansard roof of the envoy's house, light was burning late at night, and that this room had not been used before. From these circumstances they concluded that Keith was hiding at the envoy's, and now their spy didn't let the envoy's house out of his sight. The envoy learned of this and that Keith's habit of reading late at night had given him away.
The following morning, the envoy came to Keith and told him: You are betrayed. Your King has spies after you, so be ready, I'll bring you to Scheveningen today, and everything there is ready for your transport to England. In the evening, he brought Keith in his own carriage to Scheveningen, and gave him letters of reccomendation for London, and didn't leave him until he saw him depart on a fisherman's boat. Keith happily arrived in England, from where he went into Portueguese service armed with reccommendations from the court. A few days later, Dumoulin learned by accident that Keith had escaped. He had gone to Scheveningen in order to see the fishermen arrive and was surprised that they dared to brave the sea in such little boats. One of the fishermen told him: With such a boat, we even make the trip to England; I'm just returning from there, and have transported a foreign officer. Dumoulin demanded a description of the officer, and from the circumstance that said man had been crosseyed, he concluded that it had been Keith.
Keith returned to Berlin in the year 1741, was appointed Colonel lieutenant and Master of the Horse, and became curator at the Academy of Sciences. My father knew Herr von Keith very well, and was told by him the way of his escape.
V. Hertefeld."
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selenak, you are the very best, and I am a deeply grateful royal readee! <3Mondays and Tuesdays are the worst days for me in terms of having time for salon, but I am reading avidly (perhaps too avidly :P), and will comment as soon as I can.
Love the Quantz stories, and from Fritz' letters to Wilhelmine, I remember that there were ups and downs even during the crown prince years. Also, Quantz' direct quote is lovely, particularly the German phrasing. It keeps being interesting that Fritz could have that effect on people. (Even Heinrich, kind of. :P)
"Non, mon ami, le tyran demande du sang" - seeing the context in your other comment, i.e. not coming back soon, one could interpret this as him speaking metaphorically, about imprisonment/physical punishment? Possibly?
"Non, mon ami, le tyran demande du sang" - seeing the context in your other comment, i.e. not coming back soon, one could interpret this as him speaking metaphorically, about imprisonment/physical punishment? Possibly?
I was going to hold off on clearing that up, but quickly:
No, it's a matter of chronological confusion on Selena's part (probably from reading fast). She originally wrote, "I don't think it occured to Katte this early," but then the full translation (thank you!) says:
When Katte was transported to Küstrin
Now, that was November 3. By then, Katte knew he was on his way to his execution, had written his pleas for pardon in vain, and all but the faintest shred of hope was lost. This is the point at which he's giving away all his books. :(
No, it's a matter of chronological confusion on Selena's part (probably from reading fast). She originally wrote, "I don't think it occured to Katte this early," but then the full translation (thank you!) says:
When Katte was transported to Küstrin
Now, that was November 3. By then, Katte knew he was on his way to his execution, had written his pleas for pardon in vain, and all but the faintest shred of hope was lost. This is the point at which he's giving away all his books. :(
Good to see that Nicolai didn't actually fall for something entirely made-up here, aside from details like the probable Karlchen confusion. No Völker mention in the digital part of the state archive (also, that name is really impractical as a search term), but I saw that Preuss in his Fritz-bio sums it up in a very no-nonsense way, saying about the poisoning stories that "[t]his is all made up. Glasow abused the governement seal [he says Regierungssiegel, not the King's, so I suspect he read the state archive letters, too] to issue some orders in the King's name, with the help of the Kaffetier Völker." So no mention of seduced Glasow, which means he isn't just following Nicolai I'd say.
The other thing about all this? I'm amused that "Kaffetier" is an official job description. (And probably one that aided the poisoning rumours.)
The other thing about all this? I'm amused that "Kaffetier" is an official job description. (And probably one that aided the poisoning rumours.)
I don't, but I've often wondered.
I'm amused that "Kaffetier" is an official job description. (And probably one that aided the poisoning rumours.)
That does make sense!
That does make sense!
Re: What if: FW vs G2 duel goes go through, ends lethally
mildred_of_midgard
2021-02-24 01:06 am (UTC)(link)
I agree with this. He's in the experimenting stage, and he's invested so much that I don't think he needs to be guilted into it.
(as Mildred would say, cost/sunk facility).
Sunk cost fallacy. :)
Plus, of course, there's always the possibility that there's a kernel of truth in the later "prostitutes/loose living = STD" stories.
His 1737 letter to Duhan about trying to make up for lost time wasted on pleasures in his youth, combined with Wilhelmine's frustration at 16-yo Fritz's dissolute life after Duhan left, suggest that *something* happened when he was young. Though for all we know it was along the lines of walks in the park with Doris Ritter.
(as Mildred would say, cost/sunk facility).
Sunk cost fallacy. :)
Plus, of course, there's always the possibility that there's a kernel of truth in the later "prostitutes/loose living = STD" stories.
His 1737 letter to Duhan about trying to make up for lost time wasted on pleasures in his youth, combined with Wilhelmine's frustration at 16-yo Fritz's dissolute life after Duhan left, suggest that *something* happened when he was young. Though for all we know it was along the lines of walks in the park with Doris Ritter.
Völker is a terrible name for searching! As Preuss had access to the state archives, it makes sense he'd have looked it up. (Especially since a sensational story like "poison attempt on our glorious King by his evil enemies via a minion!" actually would have been a Prussian propaganda friendly story.
....mind you, I do think there might have been more to it than just Glasow (and friend) helping themselves to money and issuing fake orders, because Lehndorff, Henckel and Kalckreuth (who is pro Glasow and thinks he got framed!) all mention he hand contact with the Countess Brühl, and if you're the second most important lady of Saxony, with still ample cash at your disposal, you don't hang out with a valet to the King who has just invaded because you just feel like it. So he might have sold some copies of letters to the Saxons as well, stuff like that.
I'm still curious as to who Nicolai's source was, and why they were so insistant that Glasow was "seduced" and just a naive young man (of 22, as of the mercy petition his father wrote to Fritz) while the true villain was Völker. Like I said, Nicolai elsewhere usually names his sources, which is really helpful. If he is vague about this one, then the only idea I have is that they might still be serving in the current (i.e. FW2) royal household. Which would surprise me, though; anyone who knew Glasow - who died in 1757 - would have been really old in 1792, plus I doubt FW2 used any of Fritz' staff (as opposed to letting them retire honorably) - he had had his own for years and years as Prince of Prussia.
(Incidentally, Mildred - the term Nicolai keeps using is indeed "verführen" and "verführt", same as when FW asks Fritz whether he seduced Katte or vice versa.)
Now Lehndorff, Henckel and Kalckreuth - who all had seen him in person - all agree that Glasow was extremely handsome, and this was how he caught Fritz' eye originally. Lehndorff and Henckel see him as a high-handed guy throwing his weight around as the new Fredersdorf (in his own eyes) (and as an ungrateful treacherous bastard), while Kalckreuth thinks he was a good egg and it framed by his dismissed servant who had it in for him. (Whereas said dismissed servant is the hero of the tale in the other accounts, even in Nicolai's.) None of them think that Glasow was seduced and manipulated by the coffee maker.
Conclusion: could whoever told the story to Nioolai maybe a) have fallen for young Glasow himself back in the day, and/or b) bear a grudge against Völker/Wöllner?
Or, crazy out there theory: Nicolai was born in 1733, which means that when Glasow rose to prominence in 1755 (when he is Fritz' companion on the incognito trip to the Netherlands), he was Glasow's age - maybe he himself had fallen for the dashing young Glasow, wants to believe the best of his youthful crush and that's why he can't name sources when he does so everywhere else?
....mind you, I do think there might have been more to it than just Glasow (and friend) helping themselves to money and issuing fake orders, because Lehndorff, Henckel and Kalckreuth (who is pro Glasow and thinks he got framed!) all mention he hand contact with the Countess Brühl, and if you're the second most important lady of Saxony, with still ample cash at your disposal, you don't hang out with a valet to the King who has just invaded because you just feel like it. So he might have sold some copies of letters to the Saxons as well, stuff like that.
I'm still curious as to who Nicolai's source was, and why they were so insistant that Glasow was "seduced" and just a naive young man (of 22, as of the mercy petition his father wrote to Fritz) while the true villain was Völker. Like I said, Nicolai elsewhere usually names his sources, which is really helpful. If he is vague about this one, then the only idea I have is that they might still be serving in the current (i.e. FW2) royal household. Which would surprise me, though; anyone who knew Glasow - who died in 1757 - would have been really old in 1792, plus I doubt FW2 used any of Fritz' staff (as opposed to letting them retire honorably) - he had had his own for years and years as Prince of Prussia.
(Incidentally, Mildred - the term Nicolai keeps using is indeed "verführen" and "verführt", same as when FW asks Fritz whether he seduced Katte or vice versa.)
Now Lehndorff, Henckel and Kalckreuth - who all had seen him in person - all agree that Glasow was extremely handsome, and this was how he caught Fritz' eye originally. Lehndorff and Henckel see him as a high-handed guy throwing his weight around as the new Fredersdorf (in his own eyes) (and as an ungrateful treacherous bastard), while Kalckreuth thinks he was a good egg and it framed by his dismissed servant who had it in for him. (Whereas said dismissed servant is the hero of the tale in the other accounts, even in Nicolai's.) None of them think that Glasow was seduced and manipulated by the coffee maker.
Conclusion: could whoever told the story to Nioolai maybe a) have fallen for young Glasow himself back in the day, and/or b) bear a grudge against Völker/Wöllner?
Or, crazy out there theory: Nicolai was born in 1733, which means that when Glasow rose to prominence in 1755 (when he is Fritz' companion on the incognito trip to the Netherlands), he was Glasow's age - maybe he himself had fallen for the dashing young Glasow, wants to believe the best of his youthful crush and that's why he can't name sources when he does so everywhere else?
What Mildred said re: hastily made mistake which I then when translating every word recognized as such.
Quantz' direct quote is lovely, particularly the German phrasing.
Isn't it just? Sadly I can't get across the flavour of Mensch in English, since it's man just as if he'd said Mann. Human being sounds clumsily. And "Mensch" in Yiddish means something slightly different. And the passive construction of "mir nötig" also can't be repeated in English.
Nicolai, btw, is a big Quantz admirer, regrets that his work hardly gets played anymore at the time of writing (because musical taste moves on) and defends him against the accusation of his flute pieces being repetitive by saying that many of these were composed explicitly for Fritz who hated completely new stuff, so there had to be something familiar in each one.
See, Fritz, that's why MT and later Joseph get Gluck and later Mozart respectively, aka the musical innovators of the age. His taste in everything really was frozen somewhere in the 1730s.
Quantz' direct quote is lovely, particularly the German phrasing.
Isn't it just? Sadly I can't get across the flavour of Mensch in English, since it's man just as if he'd said Mann. Human being sounds clumsily. And "Mensch" in Yiddish means something slightly different. And the passive construction of "mir nötig" also can't be repeated in English.
Nicolai, btw, is a big Quantz admirer, regrets that his work hardly gets played anymore at the time of writing (because musical taste moves on) and defends him against the accusation of his flute pieces being repetitive by saying that many of these were composed explicitly for Fritz who hated completely new stuff, so there had to be something familiar in each one.
See, Fritz, that's why MT and later Joseph get Gluck and later Mozart respectively, aka the musical innovators of the age. His taste in everything really was frozen somewhere in the 1730s.
Well, I just had to, sooner or later - here’s the Fritz and Voltaire saga in emojii form:
🤴🏻 Fritz, a King
👨🏻💻 Voltaire, a writer
👩🏻🎓 Émilie, a lady of science
👨🏻🎓 König, a gentleman of science
👨🏻🚀 Maupertuis, an explorer, later head of the Academy
👨🦱 Fredersdorf, a Consigliere
👩🏻🦰 Madame Denis, a niece
👮🏻♂️ Freytag, a Prussian resident in Frankfurt
👥 Academy members; later, the rest of Europe
👩🏻🦱: Wilhelmine, a sister
🤴🏻: 💌 👨🏻💻
👨🏻💻: 💌 🤴🏻
🤴🏻: 📖📝👐😇❓
👩🏻🎓: 🤨🗝❗️
👨🏻💻: 🤷🏻♂️
🤴🏻: 😣
🤴🏻: 💌🧳🏰❓
👨🏻💻: 👩🏻🎓❤️👨🏻💻🧳❓
🤴🏻: 👨🏻💻❗️👩🏻🎓❌
👨🏻💻: 😶
👩🏻🎓: 🤔
👩🏻🎓: ⚰️
👨🏻💻: 😭
🤴🏻: 🤩🧳🏰❓
👨🏻💻: 👣🏰
🤴🏻👨🏻💻: 🪢💍
Act 2:
👨🏻🚀: 🥸👥
👨🏻🎓: 🖕
👨🏻🚀: 💪🏻🦶🏻👥
👨🏻💻: 😈👅👨🏻🚀
🤴🏻: ❗️🤐❗️
👨🏻💻: 🤥😇; 📝😈
🤴🏻: ⁉️📝🗞
👨🏻💻: 🖕🗞📕📗📘👅
👥: 😯
🤴🏻: 💥🔥📚
👨🏻💻: 🧳
Act 3:
🤴🏻: 📖⁉️🤫
👨🦱: ✉️👮🏻♂️
👨🏻💻👩🏻🦰: 🧳🏤
👮🏻♂️: ⛓👩🏻🦰👨🏻💻
👥: 😱
👨🏻💻: 🤬📖🔙👮🏻♂️
🏤: 💶❗️
👨🏻💻: 😤💶✔️
👨🏻💻👩🏻🦰: 🧳
👨🏻💻: 😡💔
🤴🏻: 😡💔
Act 4:
🤴🏻: ⚔️🗺😰
👩🏻🦱: ✉️ 👨🏻💻👐
👨🏻💻: ✉️ 😼🤴🏻
🤴🏻: ❗️😍😡📩
👨🏻💻: 😍😡📩
👨🏻💻🤴🏻: 💌👅💌👅⏳
👥: 🤯
🤴🏻👨🏻💻: 😎
🤴🏻 Fritz, a King
👨🏻💻 Voltaire, a writer
👩🏻🎓 Émilie, a lady of science
👨🏻🎓 König, a gentleman of science
👨🏻🚀 Maupertuis, an explorer, later head of the Academy
👨🦱 Fredersdorf, a Consigliere
👩🏻🦰 Madame Denis, a niece
👮🏻♂️ Freytag, a Prussian resident in Frankfurt
👥 Academy members; later, the rest of Europe
👩🏻🦱: Wilhelmine, a sister
🤴🏻: 💌 👨🏻💻
👨🏻💻: 💌 🤴🏻
🤴🏻: 📖📝👐😇❓
👩🏻🎓: 🤨🗝❗️
👨🏻💻: 🤷🏻♂️
🤴🏻: 😣
🤴🏻: 💌🧳🏰❓
👨🏻💻: 👩🏻🎓❤️👨🏻💻🧳❓
🤴🏻: 👨🏻💻❗️👩🏻🎓❌
👨🏻💻: 😶
👩🏻🎓: 🤔
👩🏻🎓: ⚰️
👨🏻💻: 😭
🤴🏻: 🤩🧳🏰❓
👨🏻💻: 👣🏰
🤴🏻👨🏻💻: 🪢💍
Act 2:
👨🏻🚀: 🥸👥
👨🏻🎓: 🖕
👨🏻🚀: 💪🏻🦶🏻👥
👨🏻💻: 😈👅👨🏻🚀
🤴🏻: ❗️🤐❗️
👨🏻💻: 🤥😇; 📝😈
🤴🏻: ⁉️📝🗞
👨🏻💻: 🖕🗞📕📗📘👅
👥: 😯
🤴🏻: 💥🔥📚
👨🏻💻: 🧳
Act 3:
🤴🏻: 📖⁉️🤫
👨🦱: ✉️👮🏻♂️
👨🏻💻👩🏻🦰: 🧳🏤
👮🏻♂️: ⛓👩🏻🦰👨🏻💻
👥: 😱
👨🏻💻: 🤬📖🔙👮🏻♂️
🏤: 💶❗️
👨🏻💻: 😤💶✔️
👨🏻💻👩🏻🦰: 🧳
👨🏻💻: 😡💔
🤴🏻: 😡💔
Act 4:
🤴🏻: ⚔️🗺😰
👩🏻🦱: ✉️ 👨🏻💻👐
👨🏻💻: ✉️ 😼🤴🏻
🤴🏻: ❗️😍😡📩
👨🏻💻: 😍😡📩
👨🏻💻🤴🏻: 💌👅💌👅⏳
👥: 🤯
🤴🏻👨🏻💻: 😎
cahn,blue was Prussia's color - Preussisch blau - while red as you probably know was what the Brits wore in this era. Hence FW's thing about the colors. In the summer of the year 1730, shortly before the King undertook the journey with the Crown Prince which was to lead them through the Empire until Wesel, where the Crown Prince had intended to escape to England, followed by the known unfortunate results, Quantz - - Nicolai spells it Quanz all the time, btw - , too, was in Berlin, in order to play with the Crown Prince sometimes early in the morning around 6 am, but usually always in the afternoon from 4 until 7 pm. The discontent between the King and the Crown Prince was already very high at that point, and the Prince back then sought to be the opposite of what his father was in most things. In the morning, he had to submit to force as far as his exterior was concerned. The tight uniform, the simple curled hair, the stiff tail, the serious soldier's step weren't to his taste, but he had to accept them. Only after lunch, once he was left in his rooms on his own, he wanted to live there as he pleased. Thus, he usually had his hair styled according to the then current fashion, used a Haarbeutel and wore a dressing gown made of golden brocade; and thus he studied and played the flute.
The Crown Prince was dressed in this fashion one day, and Quantz was playing with him, when suddenly the later doomed Herr von Katte, the Crown Prince's favourite, hurried into the room and frightened reported that the King was coming and was already very close. Now the Crown Prince's passion for books and music had not been hidden to the King. Both were repellent to him, and he wanted to surprise the Crown Prince. Katte took the boxes with the flutes in the greatest hurry, and the scores, took the extremely frightened Quantz by the hand and jumped with him and the boxes in a small cabinet where they usually stored material to heat the stoves with. Here, they had to remain for over an hour, and Quantz, who told me the whole story himself, trembled, even more so since he was wearing a red coat; a color which the King hated. The Crown Prince had dressed into the uniform in the greatest hurry, but he couldn't get rid of the Haarbeutel as quickly, and thus it is easy to guess how disturbing this encounter must have been. The King soon discovered the hidden shelves behind the tapestry where the books and the dressing gowns were kept. The later, he had thrown into the fireplace at once, as for the books, he ordered them to be sold to the bookstore owner Haude. The later kept the books as a service to the Crown Prince, who ordered them to be taken to him one by one, according to his needs, until his complete library could be restored to him.
Quantz finally was freed from his tight corner once the King had left; but he was extremely careful during his subsequent visits to Berlin; he especially took care never to wear a red coat again, but only a grey or a blue one.
No time for salon, must work, but I had to say that I woke up and read this and simply couldn't stop laughing! Brava!
Thank you for this! Some of it (like the thin grey hair being powdered and curled) I had run into, and Strizky for example I'd seen written as Strutski, but certainly not all of it, and I didn't know what the source of any of this was. It's good to know!
maybe the whim struck him on one of those lovely evenings sitting out there, and he made a remark to that effect to a visitor, but I can assure you it really was no more than that
WHAT. What about the WHOLE VAULT he had constructed all the way back in the 1740s??? >:-(
It's basically "Who was the greatest? FRITZ! Fuck Yeah!"
LOLOL. Der Einzige! My fave.
Alas, no mentioning as to what became of the dogs in the entire text that I could see!
Alas! That was indeed one of our questions.
maybe the whim struck him on one of those lovely evenings sitting out there, and he made a remark to that effect to a visitor, but I can assure you it really was no more than that
WHAT. What about the WHOLE VAULT he had constructed all the way back in the 1740s??? >:-(
It's basically "Who was the greatest? FRITZ! Fuck Yeah!"
LOLOL. Der Einzige! My fave.
Alas, no mentioning as to what became of the dogs in the entire text that I could see!
Alas! That was indeed one of our questions.
Kletschke, by the way, is this guy, military and court chaplain, and also responsible for and invested in reforming the military schools and the military orphanage in Potsdam during Fritz' last years, continuing that under FWII.
Ah, thank you! I had been wondering who our author was.
the king probably never rested as gently as he does now that he is dead; for it must be remembered that the most blessed king lay on mattresses at all times during his lifetime
That tells you something about mattresses of the time!
No mention of the dogs from him either. Which is almost surprising, given that he spent so much time in Sanssouci that day, but I guess they were brought away pretty quickly after Fritz' death, as to not be underfoot during the proceedings.
Awww. I can see why, but Fritz would have wanted them underfoot. </3 (Sorry, I'm a dog person, can't help it. ;))
Ah, thank you! I had been wondering who our author was.
the king probably never rested as gently as he does now that he is dead; for it must be remembered that the most blessed king lay on mattresses at all times during his lifetime
That tells you something about mattresses of the time!
No mention of the dogs from him either. Which is almost surprising, given that he spent so much time in Sanssouci that day, but I guess they were brought away pretty quickly after Fritz' death, as to not be underfoot during the proceedings.
Awww. I can see why, but Fritz would have wanted them underfoot. </3 (Sorry, I'm a dog person, can't help it. ;))
Re: What if: FW vs G2 duel goes go through, ends lethally
mildred_of_midgard
2021-02-25 12:00 am (UTC)(link)
I could see him attempting to be an extra good Christian husband and father not being mutually exclusive with him being a nightmare to live in, because of his low ability to read or value emotional needs different from his: if he makes an extra effort, and he feels like they're not doing their part in being grateful and cooperative ("But I spared you ballet! I took you hunting with me! I gave you lots of alcohol!"), Vesuvius-like eruptions ensue.
Let's hope G2 kills FW.
Both of them killing each other is an option too! As the Katte brothers prove.
Let's hope G2 kills FW.
Both of them killing each other is an option too! As the Katte brothers prove.
Fritz plays but makes mistakes, promptly blames the flute, Quanz checks the flute again and says no, the flute is good, Fritz says it's not true and shouts, they don't talk for a week during which Quanz withholds applause and approval, after eight days, Fritz caves and says okay, yes, it was him, not the flute, Quanz is "okay, then let's practice".
Oh, man, that is SO Fritz. That is so very Fritz.
Also, Quanz - whom Nicolai knew, and who is his source for all these stories, once said ruefully about Fritz as a person and why despite their ups and downs he can't bring himself to leave him, that he'd miss him if he left: Ich hätte nicht gedacht,dass mir der Mensch so nötig wäre. ("I wouldn't have thought that I need this man so much.")
Woooow. That is the effect Fritz has on people, no doubt!
mildred_of_midgard, apparently until the early 1790s, the most common spread story about the escape attempt was that Fritz and Katte were both arrested at the same time, at Wesel.
Oooh, I did not know this. Interesting! Given how complicated the actual story is (Fritz in Sinsheim, Keith in Wesel, Katte in Berlin, I can see why it got simplified over time).
and then tells the "you're still here?" story that subsequently is told everywhere else.
Ooh, nice, good to know where that comes from.
Nicolai's version is also the one where Peter gets the "sauvez-vous" warning note from Fritz and therefore hightails it out of Wesel, which was we now doesn't work, date wise.
Not unless my speculation about backdating is true, and that's really extreeeemely speculative. It's possible the Mylius report to FW would also have to contain some falsehoods? Not sure, would have to reread. Ah, yes, Mylius also says Peter left on the 6th.
Unless there is a big successful coverup here, I have to assume Nicolai, Peter Keith's son, Wilhelmine, and Catt are all wrong, and that a story was going around to the effect that Peter was warned. After all, it's possible Fritz did send the letter; it's just that Peter was already gone when he did.
(we know it was with the Brits, but with Chesterfield's staff rather than Chesterfield himself)
We know a lot of oddly specific things in salon! I'm proud of us. :D
Nicolai says his source's dad knew Peter personally as well. This supposed former comrade of Katte's and friend of Peter's whose son is Nicolai's source is called von Hertefeld.
Huh. Cool, will keep an eye out for him. There's a Frau von Hertefeld mentioned in Lehndorff's diary in 1752 (a very sophisticated woman), but that's all my searches of our salon give me. I may do detective work at some point iffelis doesn't beat me to it, but not tonight.
...Is it possible Peter told the story this way? To make it look like, "I only left because Fritz said to! To save my life!"
I just checked and Voltaire and Catt diverge in one respect, interestingly: Voltaire has Keith getting arrested and then escaping. I'm betting he's confusing the two brothers (another way in which, if you heard this story orally, you would simplify, because wow this story is so confusing I never understood it fully until we'd been in salon for a some time). It's still just possible Catt has his story from Fritz, who remembered writing the letter to Peter but not the exact date Peter left Wesel.
Oh, man, that is SO Fritz. That is so very Fritz.
Also, Quanz - whom Nicolai knew, and who is his source for all these stories, once said ruefully about Fritz as a person and why despite their ups and downs he can't bring himself to leave him, that he'd miss him if he left: Ich hätte nicht gedacht,dass mir der Mensch so nötig wäre. ("I wouldn't have thought that I need this man so much.")
Woooow. That is the effect Fritz has on people, no doubt!
mildred_of_midgard, apparently until the early 1790s, the most common spread story about the escape attempt was that Fritz and Katte were both arrested at the same time, at Wesel.
Oooh, I did not know this. Interesting! Given how complicated the actual story is (Fritz in Sinsheim, Keith in Wesel, Katte in Berlin, I can see why it got simplified over time).
and then tells the "you're still here?" story that subsequently is told everywhere else.
Ooh, nice, good to know where that comes from.
Nicolai's version is also the one where Peter gets the "sauvez-vous" warning note from Fritz and therefore hightails it out of Wesel, which was we now doesn't work, date wise.
Not unless my speculation about backdating is true, and that's really extreeeemely speculative. It's possible the Mylius report to FW would also have to contain some falsehoods? Not sure, would have to reread. Ah, yes, Mylius also says Peter left on the 6th.
Unless there is a big successful coverup here, I have to assume Nicolai, Peter Keith's son, Wilhelmine, and Catt are all wrong, and that a story was going around to the effect that Peter was warned. After all, it's possible Fritz did send the letter; it's just that Peter was already gone when he did.
(we know it was with the Brits, but with Chesterfield's staff rather than Chesterfield himself)
We know a lot of oddly specific things in salon! I'm proud of us. :D
Nicolai says his source's dad knew Peter personally as well. This supposed former comrade of Katte's and friend of Peter's whose son is Nicolai's source is called von Hertefeld.
Huh. Cool, will keep an eye out for him. There's a Frau von Hertefeld mentioned in Lehndorff's diary in 1752 (a very sophisticated woman), but that's all my searches of our salon give me. I may do detective work at some point if
felis doesn't beat me to it, but not tonight....Is it possible Peter told the story this way? To make it look like, "I only left because Fritz said to! To save my life!"
I just checked and Voltaire and Catt diverge in one respect, interestingly: Voltaire has Keith getting arrested and then escaping. I'm betting he's confusing the two brothers (another way in which, if you heard this story orally, you would simplify, because wow this story is so confusing I never understood it fully until we'd been in salon for a some time). It's still just possible Catt has his story from Fritz, who remembered writing the letter to Peter but not the exact date Peter left Wesel.
*spittake*
Brilliant!
Fritz: My servant put poison in my coffee!
Everyone else: What's the difference?
Brilliant!
Fritz: My servant put poison in my coffee!
Everyone else: What's the difference?
Btw, what is our primary source for how Fritz took his coffee? I would hate very much for this to be a 19th century invention.
The Fritz of my youth and the Fritz of salon are slowly turning into a Ship of Theseus paradox...
The Fritz of my youth and the Fritz of salon are slowly turning into a Ship of Theseus paradox...
WHAT. What about the WHOLE VAULT he had constructed all the way back in the 1740s??? >:-(
I know. Kletschke sounds otherwise like a great, standup guy in the wiki entry Felis linked, campaigning tirelessly for direly needed reform schools, but that claim is a giant whopper. Even Mnager's "maybe he changed his mind late in the day?" is more of an effort to get around the "current day monarch, who is paying my salary and whom I want more money from for my big school project did go directly against wish from dead monarch" problem. There's just no way laudatory to both Kings you can say "and then FW2 must have thought, fuck you, Uncle Fritz, I know the perfect way to thank you for a life time of verbal abuse and a childhood spent in terror of you and all those teachers you ordered to taunt me as often as possible! I'll put your dead body next to your Dad's for the rest of eternity!"
It's a shame no one mentions the dogs. The dogs are important! We want to know!
I know. Kletschke sounds otherwise like a great, standup guy in the wiki entry Felis linked, campaigning tirelessly for direly needed reform schools, but that claim is a giant whopper. Even Mnager's "maybe he changed his mind late in the day?" is more of an effort to get around the "current day monarch, who is paying my salary and whom I want more money from for my big school project did go directly against wish from dead monarch" problem. There's just no way laudatory to both Kings you can say "and then FW2 must have thought, fuck you, Uncle Fritz, I know the perfect way to thank you for a life time of verbal abuse and a childhood spent in terror of you and all those teachers you ordered to taunt me as often as possible! I'll put your dead body next to your Dad's for the rest of eternity!"
It's a shame no one mentions the dogs. The dogs are important! We want to know!
So they do! I hadn't considered that. Hmmmm.
If G2 and FW kill each other, then the marriages might happen as a kind of "we need to end this feud for the sake of international politics" solution; Wilhelmine does become Queen of England and is spared having to go on a one hour carriage drive while in labor, because no matter how much Caroline might still dislike her oldest, she's going to alter her behavior if he's in charge and there won't be open accusations that his wife can't be pregnant, he's impotent, etc.
On the other hand, while Fritz might initially get along better with Emily/Amalie than with EC (because she doesn't symbolize submission, and she's fun to talk to), she's been raised by a Queen who was the true power in the kingdom, so long term wise, there's bound to be trouble once she makes it clear she's up for go-governing. Not to mention that she has a way better education than he was able to get for himself thanks to FW's everything, and that's probably going to smart.
On the third hand: this is a Fritz who has not gone through Küstrin and who gets to discover his sexuality and have lovers without being threatened. Because Emily/Amalie was also raised by a Queen who had no problem with her husband having mistresses, and who according to the morals of hte time does not expect her husband to be faithful to her anyway. So maybe having a boyfriend or several and no Katte trauma helps with the control issues?
If G2 and FW kill each other, then the marriages might happen as a kind of "we need to end this feud for the sake of international politics" solution; Wilhelmine does become Queen of England and is spared having to go on a one hour carriage drive while in labor, because no matter how much Caroline might still dislike her oldest, she's going to alter her behavior if he's in charge and there won't be open accusations that his wife can't be pregnant, he's impotent, etc.
On the other hand, while Fritz might initially get along better with Emily/Amalie than with EC (because she doesn't symbolize submission, and she's fun to talk to), she's been raised by a Queen who was the true power in the kingdom, so long term wise, there's bound to be trouble once she makes it clear she's up for go-governing. Not to mention that she has a way better education than he was able to get for himself thanks to FW's everything, and that's probably going to smart.
On the third hand: this is a Fritz who has not gone through Küstrin and who gets to discover his sexuality and have lovers without being threatened. Because Emily/Amalie was also raised by a Queen who had no problem with her husband having mistresses, and who according to the morals of hte time does not expect her husband to be faithful to her anyway. So maybe having a boyfriend or several and no Katte trauma helps with the control issues?
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