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Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 18
...apparently reading group is the way to get lots of comments quickly?
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
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mildred_of_midgard
2020-09-16 01:29 pm (UTC)(link)
* Louise: you should pay me in Brandenburgian gold, because it doesn't matter whether AW's posthumous debts are paid a few months earlier or a few months later.
...Maybe it matters to the people who are getting paid? The economy's pretty shaky for all of you.
* Wait, Wilhelmine Encke was 12 when FW2 fell in love with her?? Also, wait, Ziebura's dates don't match Wikipedia's. According to Ziebura, she was 12 in 1764 (cahn, FW2 was 19), but according to Wikipedia, she was born December 29, 1753, so in 1764, she'd be 10.
Ziebura says she became his lover in 1766, at which point she would have been 14 according to Ziebura and 12 according to Wikipedia, and then official mistress in 1769, when she was 15 (and he was 24).
* Do I have this right?
Kalckreuth drops onto his knee and grabs Mina's hand just as his conspirator makes sure to lead Heinrich in. One of Mina's ladies was like, "It's not what it looks like! He was asking her permission to marry me!" Heinrich was like, "Dammit. I could have gotten a divorce. Okay, but now you have to marry her, Kalckreuth." Now loyal friend of Mina Fräulein von Morrien gets stuck married to jerk!Kalckreuth, living in East Prussia and dying in childbed a year later??
No good deed goes unpunished, I guess. :/
I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
Oof, looking at the dates, Ziebura says she was 12 years older than Kalckreuth, which means she was...41/42 when giving birth. I can see where that might have been an especially rough birth.
...Next time just punch him in the nose until he bleeds.
...Maybe it matters to the people who are getting paid? The economy's pretty shaky for all of you.
* Wait, Wilhelmine Encke was 12 when FW2 fell in love with her?? Also, wait, Ziebura's dates don't match Wikipedia's. According to Ziebura, she was 12 in 1764 (
cahn, FW2 was 19), but according to Wikipedia, she was born December 29, 1753, so in 1764, she'd be 10.Ziebura says she became his lover in 1766, at which point she would have been 14 according to Ziebura and 12 according to Wikipedia, and then official mistress in 1769, when she was 15 (and he was 24).
* Do I have this right?
Kalckreuth drops onto his knee and grabs Mina's hand just as his conspirator makes sure to lead Heinrich in. One of Mina's ladies was like, "It's not what it looks like! He was asking her permission to marry me!" Heinrich was like, "Dammit. I could have gotten a divorce. Okay, but now you have to marry her, Kalckreuth." Now loyal friend of Mina Fräulein von Morrien gets stuck married to jerk!Kalckreuth, living in East Prussia and dying in childbed a year later??
No good deed goes unpunished, I guess. :/
I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
Oof, looking at the dates, Ziebura says she was 12 years older than Kalckreuth, which means she was...41/42 when giving birth. I can see where that might have been an especially rough birth.
...Next time just punch him in the nose until he bleeds.
* Okay, now SD is trying to make the marriage happen by going through her father G1's mistress the Duchess of Kendal, whom I recognize as Katte's "aunt" Melusine. I'm so glad I waited a year to reread these memoirs so I could pick up on a bunch of minor characters.
* Wilhelmine agrees about Anglo-centrism: she gets introduced to G1's retinue, they all say she looks English and speaks English like a native and is clearly destined to be their queen someday, and she writes: "This means something, since the English think of themselves as the best, and if they say someone could pass for an English(wo)man, they think this is the highest praise they can give."
You're not wrong, Wilhelmine!
* On Cardinal Richlieu: Did too much evil to be praised, too much good to be spoken evil of.
* Lol at SD trying to distract FW by claiming Wilhelmine says her dog is better than SD's dog, and Wilhelmine, playing along, is like, "But of course! My dog is so sweet and smart! <3 <3 <3"
Also, good to know she has her own dog already. I know one of the famous paintings of Fritz and Wilhelmine as small children has a dog in it, but I've always been curious at what age they got to have their very own dogs. I mean, since staff was going to take care of it anyway, maybe from the beginning?
Did Fritz have a dog that missed him while he was in Küstrin? Did he get it back at Ruppin? Did he have to get a new dog? Did he not get to have a dog until Rheinsberg? I need to know these things!
* Wilhelmine agrees about Anglo-centrism: she gets introduced to G1's retinue, they all say she looks English and speaks English like a native and is clearly destined to be their queen someday, and she writes: "This means something, since the English think of themselves as the best, and if they say someone could pass for an English(wo)man, they think this is the highest praise they can give."
You're not wrong, Wilhelmine!
* On Cardinal Richlieu: Did too much evil to be praised, too much good to be spoken evil of.
* Lol at SD trying to distract FW by claiming Wilhelmine says her dog is better than SD's dog, and Wilhelmine, playing along, is like, "But of course! My dog is so sweet and smart! <3 <3 <3"
Also, good to know she has her own dog already. I know one of the famous paintings of Fritz and Wilhelmine as small children has a dog in it, but I've always been curious at what age they got to have their very own dogs. I mean, since staff was going to take care of it anyway, maybe from the beginning?
Did Fritz have a dog that missed him while he was in Küstrin? Did he get it back at Ruppin? Did he have to get a new dog? Did he not get to have a dog until Rheinsberg? I need to know these things!
All ficlets, prompts, discussions, and emojis that I can remember off the top of my head are now in the library! If you think of one I missed, either add it, or let me know (with a link to the discussion if possible, otherwise, I'll do my best).
Finishing and sharing the Google doc with prompts is next on my todo list.
Finishing and sharing the Google doc with prompts is next on my todo list.
Wilhelmine Enke: Wiki doesn't agree with each other. German wiki names 1752 as her year of birth. The famous novel about her has her twelve when she meets future FW2, so presumably it draws on the same source Ziebura does for the birth date, which isn't wiki. (With 1769 named as the year the relationship turned sexual.) Either way, yes, she was young! Now, given all the other mistresses FW2 had were older, and given the relationship with her lasted a life time, I don't think he was into pubescent girls per se, but it makes it doubly infuriating that the Prussian media - and certainly Sophie von Voss - painted her as the evil seductress.
I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
So am I. The daughter she had with Kalckreuth was called Wilhelmine, after Mina, I assume. The son who get the memoirs dictated to and is all "my Dad: so misunderstood!" in the introduction was from a second marriage.
I'm sorry, Fräulein von Morrien!
So am I. The daughter she had with Kalckreuth was called Wilhelmine, after Mina, I assume. The son who get the memoirs dictated to and is all "my Dad: so misunderstood!" in the introduction was from a second marriage.
I'm assuming Fritz got to have a dog as a boy but possibly no longer once he was a teenager, since as opposed to Wilhelmine he's now part of the army and gets run ragged by Dad? But that's just guessing. Now that I think of it, Biche is always described as the first Italian Greyhound, not the first dog Fritz ever had...
Sudden thought: dogs are used for hunting. Maybe when FW was trying to make Fritz the hunter happen, he got a hunting dog as bribery?
Or maybe FW thought dogs were for girls and women, full stop, but I doubt it, since the picture of him as a kid is showing him with a dog as well, and he's stroking its head.
Sudden thought: dogs are used for hunting. Maybe when FW was trying to make Fritz the hunter happen, he got a hunting dog as bribery?
Or maybe FW thought dogs were for girls and women, full stop, but I doubt it, since the picture of him as a kid is showing him with a dog as well, and he's stroking its head.
I'm assuming Fritz got to have a dog as a boy but possibly no longer once he was a teenager, since as opposed to Wilhelmine he's now part of the army and gets run ragged by Dad? But that's just guessing.
That's always been my guess too! But yes, it's just a guess.
Sudden thought: dogs are used for hunting. Maybe when FW was trying to make Fritz the hunter happen, he got a hunting dog as bribery?
Maybe! I know that when FW was dying, he's supposed to have let the Old Dessauer take his pick of the royal hunting dogs, since he knew Fritz wasn't interested.
Or maybe FW thought dogs were for girls and women, full stop, but I doubt it, since the picture of him as a kid is showing him with a dog as well, and he's stroking its head.
Am I recalling correctly that that was a hunting dog, though? I've always seen Fritz described as unusual not in that he loved his dogs, but that he was a male monarch who loved lap dogs with no purpose other than keeping him company.
Also, one thing that always struck me as weird was that Fritz said when he was being forced to hunt as a teenager, he used to stop the dogs, but "I had to be careful: if I'd stepped on one (si j'avais marché sur un), the King would have screamed." Source: Catt's diary.
Maybe I'm just not clear on the logistics of the hunt here, or maybe "marché" is something other than "stepped on" (I know it's "walk" most often). But Fritz is having to be careful not to step on dogs, not because he doesn't want to hurt the dog, but because FW would be upset at Fritz sneaking his way out of the hunt? Otherwise, he would totally step on the dog? I mean, I can see FW's hunting dogs being a form of torture rather than a creature he feels empathy for, but I feel like I'm missing something here.
The complete passage, which is very telegraphic:
Il voulut que je fusse chasseur. On me donna toute l'éducation convenable. Il fallait courir: j'arrêtais les chiens; et il fallait bien prendre garde. Si j'avais marché sur un, le Roi aurait crié. Le piqueur était bien aise que j'arrêtais.
Translation, at a guess:
He wanted me to be a hunter. I was given the appropriate training. It was necessary to run: I used to stop the dogs, and I had to be on my guard. If I had walked/stepped on one, the King would have yelled. The master of hounds was glad that I would stop.
?
That's always been my guess too! But yes, it's just a guess.
Sudden thought: dogs are used for hunting. Maybe when FW was trying to make Fritz the hunter happen, he got a hunting dog as bribery?
Maybe! I know that when FW was dying, he's supposed to have let the Old Dessauer take his pick of the royal hunting dogs, since he knew Fritz wasn't interested.
Or maybe FW thought dogs were for girls and women, full stop, but I doubt it, since the picture of him as a kid is showing him with a dog as well, and he's stroking its head.
Am I recalling correctly that that was a hunting dog, though? I've always seen Fritz described as unusual not in that he loved his dogs, but that he was a male monarch who loved lap dogs with no purpose other than keeping him company.
Also, one thing that always struck me as weird was that Fritz said when he was being forced to hunt as a teenager, he used to stop the dogs, but "I had to be careful: if I'd stepped on one (si j'avais marché sur un), the King would have screamed." Source: Catt's diary.
Maybe I'm just not clear on the logistics of the hunt here, or maybe "marché" is something other than "stepped on" (I know it's "walk" most often). But Fritz is having to be careful not to step on dogs, not because he doesn't want to hurt the dog, but because FW would be upset at Fritz sneaking his way out of the hunt? Otherwise, he would totally step on the dog? I mean, I can see FW's hunting dogs being a form of torture rather than a creature he feels empathy for, but I feel like I'm missing something here.
The complete passage, which is very telegraphic:
Il voulut que je fusse chasseur. On me donna toute l'éducation convenable. Il fallait courir: j'arrêtais les chiens; et il fallait bien prendre garde. Si j'avais marché sur un, le Roi aurait crié. Le piqueur était bien aise que j'arrêtais.
Translation, at a guess:
He wanted me to be a hunter. I was given the appropriate training. It was necessary to run: I used to stop the dogs, and I had to be on my guard. If I had walked/stepped on one, the King would have yelled. The master of hounds was glad that I would stop.
?
Added a couple more items to ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
rheinsberg, and put the prompt organization list in the library in Google. You should be able to see and edit it, but if not, let me know.
A list of prompts we've come up with is at the top. Feel free to add whatever I've missed.
Below that are our individual lists of favorite prompts we'd be happy to receive as gifts, in alphabetical order by name: cahn, mildred, selena. As you can see, I've started with my top 50, but don't be surprised if I think of more. :P
The entries in the table of contents are clickable and linkable: you can navigate to yours, and you can link to it if you want to point someone else to it.
Add yours!
ETA: Oh, mine is in no particular order. I'd be happy to get any all of them.
rheinsberg, and put the prompt organization list in the library in Google. You should be able to see and edit it, but if not, let me know.A list of prompts we've come up with is at the top. Feel free to add whatever I've missed.
Below that are our individual lists of favorite prompts we'd be happy to receive as gifts, in alphabetical order by name: cahn, mildred, selena. As you can see, I've started with my top 50, but don't be surprised if I think of more. :P
The entries in the table of contents are clickable and linkable: you can navigate to yours, and you can link to it if you want to point someone else to it.
Add yours!
ETA: Oh, mine is in no particular order. I'd be happy to get any all of them.
Edited 2020-09-16 20:54 (UTC)
Only a few pages tonight: Louise is being comforted for the death of son Henricus Minor and the marriage of daughter Wilhelmine by getting to adopt little Friederike after MESSALINA, I mean Elisabeth, is sent off to Stettin, and extremely young!Wilhelmine Encke is now official mistress.
Because Wilhelmine's memoirs are harder, I've been starting with them and reading as much as I can, up to 20 pages, and then doing some Wives before bed.
Wilhelmine is getting easier! I did 20 pages again today, this time in one go, and not only am I reading faster and increasingly not thinking the English translation "out loud" in my head (this has been slowly becoming a thing for a while now), but today, for the first time, I found myself skimming some function words! I've been waiting and waiting for that.
It gives me hope that by the time reading group finishes, I'll be ready to start tackling some of the items on my list, many of them Katte-related. :D
Because Wilhelmine's memoirs are harder, I've been starting with them and reading as much as I can, up to 20 pages, and then doing some Wives before bed.
Wilhelmine is getting easier! I did 20 pages again today, this time in one go, and not only am I reading faster and increasingly not thinking the English translation "out loud" in my head (this has been slowly becoming a thing for a while now), but today, for the first time, I found myself skimming some function words! I've been waiting and waiting for that.
It gives me hope that by the time reading group finishes, I'll be ready to start tackling some of the items on my list, many of them Katte-related. :D
Ha! I also thought of MESSALINA! :D
That must have been hard on Elisabeth, but gosh, it must have been nice for Louise to have a kiddo around, especially after all of hers kept getting taken from her :( She sounds like an extremely maternal sort.
That must have been hard on Elisabeth, but gosh, it must have been nice for Louise to have a kiddo around, especially after all of hers kept getting taken from her :( She sounds like an extremely maternal sort.
This was fascinating! :D
Maupertuis: ...Okay. Academy members, we will model this Academy and its interactions on the new modern state of Prussia. I'm Fritz, of course. You're everyone else.
...wow! This... explains a lot.
Ms Terrell, hot stuff Algarotti was clearly part of the intendended entertainment for the Lappland nights!
HAHAHAHA I laughed out loud because it is true!
Voltaire: I actuallly have no idea whether Maupertuis is correct about the principle of least action without Émiilie explaining it to me
LOLOLOL ALSO TRUE :DDDD
I did think that was very interesting in regards to the feud (and how König muddies the waters so much), and how Voltaire sails in and makes it a literary drama instead of a mathematical/plagiarist one. ...Was König right (or does anyone now think he was), does Terrell say?
Also Euler! Man, Fritz, if you hadn't had such a hangup about German you could have had *Euler* as your Academy President!
Maupertuis: ...Okay. Academy members, we will model this Academy and its interactions on the new modern state of Prussia. I'm Fritz, of course. You're everyone else.
...wow! This... explains a lot.
Ms Terrell, hot stuff Algarotti was clearly part of the intendended entertainment for the Lappland nights!
HAHAHAHA I laughed out loud because it is true!
Voltaire: I actuallly have no idea whether Maupertuis is correct about the principle of least action without Émiilie explaining it to me
LOLOLOL ALSO TRUE :DDDD
I did think that was very interesting in regards to the feud (and how König muddies the waters so much), and how Voltaire sails in and makes it a literary drama instead of a mathematical/plagiarist one. ...Was König right (or does anyone now think he was), does Terrell say?
Also Euler! Man, Fritz, if you hadn't had such a hangup about German you could have had *Euler* as your Academy President!
This... explains a lot.
Doesn't it just? Among other things, why I don't doubt Voltaire had a variety of self-related motives for his intervention - from possible leftover Émilie-related jealousy to present day Fritz related jealousy -, Maupertuis running the Academy like an absolutist state was bound to stir him into action sooner or later. Voltaire: never met an authority figure or institution in his life he didn't at the very least needle if not actively antagonize.
Terrell gave me the impression that mathematically, Maupertuis was right, but he was wrong to accuse König of forgery.
Doesn't it just? Among other things, why I don't doubt Voltaire had a variety of self-related motives for his intervention - from possible leftover Émilie-related jealousy to present day Fritz related jealousy -, Maupertuis running the Academy like an absolutist state was bound to stir him into action sooner or later. Voltaire: never met an authority figure or institution in his life he didn't at the very least needle if not actively antagonize.
Terrell gave me the impression that mathematically, Maupertuis was right, but he was wrong to accuse König of forgery.
My best guess: "I used to slow the dogs down", not "stop the dogs". But I'm lost as to the rest.
he was a male monarch who loved lap dogs with no purpose other than keeping him company.
King Charles II.: I would like to point out I got there first. Spaniels I adored/named after me, too/Like me, they were fun/with a natty hairdo.
he was a male monarch who loved lap dogs with no purpose other than keeping him company.
King Charles II.: I would like to point out I got there first. Spaniels I adored/named after me, too/Like me, they were fun/with a natty hairdo.
Heh, that sounds downright nice about Caroline, especially given the other stuff he's said about other women :PP Well, no, actually, a lot of it is nice! I feel like he's the kind of guy who can't resist getting in some digs when there's a good witticism to be had, mind you. (Wow, he really is kind of like Voltaire. Would they like each other or would this be an epic insult battle for the ages? ...what am I even saying? I know what Fritz/Voltaire was like, of course it'd be the latter! with two sets of fake memoirs)
At least from Hervey's description, Caroline sounds a lot more savvy than SD. Of course, G2 isn't exactly FW, either.
And as for that love rat, Fritz of Wales:
I must say I love the soubriquet "love rat" and will have to find more opportunities to use it :D
But anyway, lol forever to that description! Is there a bit anywhere later on describing their soulful, tempestuous, star-crossed reunion? :D
At least from Hervey's description, Caroline sounds a lot more savvy than SD. Of course, G2 isn't exactly FW, either.
And as for that love rat, Fritz of Wales:
I must say I love the soubriquet "love rat" and will have to find more opportunities to use it :D
But anyway, lol forever to that description! Is there a bit anywhere later on describing their soulful, tempestuous, star-crossed reunion? :D
Yeah.
Fritz and AW: Only one way to raise an heir to the throne in this family, and it isn't leaving him to a mom who will be nice to him! Say goodbye to FW2, Louise!
Karl Emil: *dies*
Henricus Minor: *dies:
Wilhelmine: *has to get married at age 16*
I guess it could have been worse, if Fritz hadn't decided to make up for being awful to AW by being extra nice to Louise. THAT WILL.
ETA: No Wives tonight, I was going to, but I think I'm going to try to go to bed early instead. But let me know where you get to, and I'll catch up.
FORTY pages of Wilhelmine memoirs today! And on a workday! My German continues to improve at breakneck speed. I'm behind on commenting, because I decided to focus on German reading today. I'm highlighting things I want to talk about in both Wives and Wilhelmine, and will try to catch up this weekend. I'm also marking items to add to the chronology.
Since we're getting close to the end of Ziebura, I'm starting to work on converting the Oster Wilhelmine bio. After I finish Wives, I want to tackle that one next. Then Lehndorff!
Fritz and AW: Only one way to raise an heir to the throne in this family, and it isn't leaving him to a mom who will be nice to him! Say goodbye to FW2, Louise!
Karl Emil: *dies*
Henricus Minor: *dies:
Wilhelmine: *has to get married at age 16*
I guess it could have been worse, if Fritz hadn't decided to make up for being awful to AW by being extra nice to Louise. THAT WILL.
ETA: No Wives tonight, I was going to, but I think I'm going to try to go to bed early instead. But let me know where you get to, and I'll catch up.
FORTY pages of Wilhelmine memoirs today! And on a workday! My German continues to improve at breakneck speed. I'm behind on commenting, because I decided to focus on German reading today. I'm highlighting things I want to talk about in both Wives and Wilhelmine, and will try to catch up this weekend. I'm also marking items to add to the chronology.
Since we're getting close to the end of Ziebura, I'm starting to work on converting the Oster Wilhelmine bio. After I finish Wives, I want to tackle that one next. Then Lehndorff!
Edited 2020-09-18 02:43 (UTC)
Re: No Pity for the Wives readthrough (cont) - post Seven Years' War
mildred_of_midgard
2020-09-18 01:04 am (UTC)(link)
Wilhelmine Enke: Wiki doesn't agree with each other. German wiki names 1752 as her year of birth.
*facepalm*
One day, I will learn to countercheck German wiki! (Probably around the time I can read it without help, which we're getting closer to, woohoo.)
Now, given all the other mistresses FW2 had were older, and given the relationship with her lasted a life time, I don't think he was into pubescent girls per se, but it makes it doubly infuriating that the Prussian media - and certainly Sophie von Voss - painted her as the evil seductress.
Always blame the woman! I like Ziebura calling out "pious Louise" for not having a word to say about the 'sins' of her son, when Louise is going on about Elisabeth and how properly repentant she is.
Argh.
*facepalm*
One day, I will learn to countercheck German wiki! (Probably around the time I can read it without help, which we're getting closer to, woohoo.)
Now, given all the other mistresses FW2 had were older, and given the relationship with her lasted a life time, I don't think he was into pubescent girls per se, but it makes it doubly infuriating that the Prussian media - and certainly Sophie von Voss - painted her as the evil seductress.
Always blame the woman! I like Ziebura calling out "pious Louise" for not having a word to say about the 'sins' of her son, when Louise is going on about Elisabeth and how properly repentant she is.
Argh.
(Wow, he really is kind of like Voltaire. Would they like each other or would this be an epic insult battle for the ages? ...what am I even saying? I know what Fritz/Voltaire was like, of course it'd be the latter! with two sets of fake memoirs)
Well, apparently it was like Fritz/Voltaire in some ways, not in others:
En route back from Italy, Hervey renews his friendship with Voltaire (whom he'd met earlier when Voltaire had been in England); this includes showing Voltaire his poetry and asking his opinion of it. (I sense a theme.)
Hervey's friendship for Voltaire the man did not prevent him from criticizing Voltaire the writer. When he read the tragedy Zaire (early in 1733) and sent a copy to Henry Fox , he was certain that like himself Fox would "have some Compassion for a silly Christian [heroine) as well as the greatest regard, Esteem , & Affection for a noble, good, tender & charming Mahometan' who through a tragic misunderstanding kills her. He was irritated , though, by Voltaire's dedication of the play to Edward Falkener, English merchant. In France it was regarded as scandalous because it was addressed not only to a commoner but to a foreign one at that . Hervey told Henry Fox that he thought it "bad, false, & impertinent ... by a superficial Frenchman to an Englishman , & the Dedicator pretends to be better acquainted with our Country, our Manners, our Laws, & even our Language than the Dedicatee'.
What could have aroused such a violent opinion ? In the dedicatory epistle , after praising the high rank and regard the mercantile class enjoyed in England, Voltaire continues : 'I know very well that this profession is despised by our petits-maîtres ; but you also know that our petits -maîtres and yours are the most ridiculous species that proudly crawl on the face of the earth '. This , rather than the general remarks about French and English theatre, could have been offensive to one who was certainly closer to being a petit-maître than a man of commerce.
Fritz: You've got it backwards, Hervey. Voltaire is the literal worst, the scum of humanity, but his writing! *sparkly hearts*
I also really enjoyed "love rat," that was awesome. Had never heard it, but Google tells me it's a thing.
Well, apparently it was like Fritz/Voltaire in some ways, not in others:
En route back from Italy, Hervey renews his friendship with Voltaire (whom he'd met earlier when Voltaire had been in England); this includes showing Voltaire his poetry and asking his opinion of it. (I sense a theme.)
Hervey's friendship for Voltaire the man did not prevent him from criticizing Voltaire the writer. When he read the tragedy Zaire (early in 1733) and sent a copy to Henry Fox , he was certain that like himself Fox would "have some Compassion for a silly Christian [heroine) as well as the greatest regard, Esteem , & Affection for a noble, good, tender & charming Mahometan' who through a tragic misunderstanding kills her. He was irritated , though, by Voltaire's dedication of the play to Edward Falkener, English merchant. In France it was regarded as scandalous because it was addressed not only to a commoner but to a foreign one at that . Hervey told Henry Fox that he thought it "bad, false, & impertinent ... by a superficial Frenchman to an Englishman , & the Dedicator pretends to be better acquainted with our Country, our Manners, our Laws, & even our Language than the Dedicatee'.
What could have aroused such a violent opinion ? In the dedicatory epistle , after praising the high rank and regard the mercantile class enjoyed in England, Voltaire continues : 'I know very well that this profession is despised by our petits-maîtres ; but you also know that our petits -maîtres and yours are the most ridiculous species that proudly crawl on the face of the earth '. This , rather than the general remarks about French and English theatre, could have been offensive to one who was certainly closer to being a petit-maître than a man of commerce.
Fritz: You've got it backwards, Hervey. Voltaire is the literal worst, the scum of humanity, but his writing! *sparkly hearts*
I also really enjoyed "love rat," that was awesome. Had never heard it, but Google tells me it's a thing.
but what provoked him most of all, he confessed, was to reflect that, whilst he was only busied in treaties, letters, and despatches, his booby brother, the brutal and cowardly King of Prussia, should pass his time in camps, and in the midst of arms, neither desirous of the glory nor fit for the employment
LOLOL that's SO GREAT. Unforgiveablest of beings indeed!
I needed that for my probably never going to be written AU where Fritz makes it to England. I already had him sighing about having to take up hunting as a political concession; now I'm imagining listening to lectures from G2 on how the sword is the only way for a prince to win glory.
makes me think Heinrich wasn't wrong when in his RPG with AW when assuming Britain would not have been willing to go to total war for Hannover
Yep, makes sense.
It was reported, and I believe not without foundation, that our Monarch on this occasion sent or would have sent a challenge of single combat to his Prussian Majesty;
What. G2, didn't you already lose the single combat with FW when you were twice his size? I don't care how gouty he is, I'd watch out. He's in practice, if nothing else!
but whether it was carried and rejected, or whether the prayers and remonstrances of Lord Townshend prevented the gauntlet being actually thrown down, is a point which to me at least has never been cleared.
Um.selenak, FW would have taken him up on the challenge, are you with me on this? Even if he got talked out of it, I suspect Wilhelmine would have heard about it and reported the conversation.
FW to SD: I already kicked your brother's sorry ass once; now he wants a piece of me again? Bring it on!
So I'm going to go with "calmer heads prevailed in England."
he irritated his English subjects by spending part of his time in Hannover, like his father had done:
I just today got to the part in Wilhelmine's memoirs where she claims that the following happened.
The English want Fritz of Wales in England, not Hanover. (The story checks out so far.) G2 wants him in Hanover, because a party will form around him in England if he's there. So they decide that FoW should sneak off to Berlin, marry Wilhelmine, and then G2 will have an excuse Parliament can't argue with for keeping him on the Continent. Only SD gives the game away by being indiscreet, the English ministers find out, and the plot falls through.
I gather Hervey's memoirs don't support this, since he doesn't get into the fire swamp that is the double marriage intrigues, but I'm wondering if there's any evidence for this outside Wilhelmine's memoirs.
LOLOL that's SO GREAT. Unforgiveablest of beings indeed!
I needed that for my probably never going to be written AU where Fritz makes it to England. I already had him sighing about having to take up hunting as a political concession; now I'm imagining listening to lectures from G2 on how the sword is the only way for a prince to win glory.
makes me think Heinrich wasn't wrong when in his RPG with AW when assuming Britain would not have been willing to go to total war for Hannover
Yep, makes sense.
It was reported, and I believe not without foundation, that our Monarch on this occasion sent or would have sent a challenge of single combat to his Prussian Majesty;
What. G2, didn't you already lose the single combat with FW when you were twice his size? I don't care how gouty he is, I'd watch out. He's in practice, if nothing else!
but whether it was carried and rejected, or whether the prayers and remonstrances of Lord Townshend prevented the gauntlet being actually thrown down, is a point which to me at least has never been cleared.
Um.
selenak, FW would have taken him up on the challenge, are you with me on this? Even if he got talked out of it, I suspect Wilhelmine would have heard about it and reported the conversation.FW to SD: I already kicked your brother's sorry ass once; now he wants a piece of me again? Bring it on!
So I'm going to go with "calmer heads prevailed in England."
he irritated his English subjects by spending part of his time in Hannover, like his father had done:
I just today got to the part in Wilhelmine's memoirs where she claims that the following happened.
The English want Fritz of Wales in England, not Hanover. (The story checks out so far.) G2 wants him in Hanover, because a party will form around him in England if he's there. So they decide that FoW should sneak off to Berlin, marry Wilhelmine, and then G2 will have an excuse Parliament can't argue with for keeping him on the Continent. Only SD gives the game away by being indiscreet, the English ministers find out, and the plot falls through.
I gather Hervey's memoirs don't support this, since he doesn't get into the fire swamp that is the double marriage intrigues, but I'm wondering if there's any evidence for this outside Wilhelmine's memoirs.
If you're wondering: I know the English spell it "Hanover" with one n, but the town in Germany as well as the current noble family is spelled with two n over here, hence my usually spelling it with two.
Oh, I'm used to your German spellings. So used to them that I've involuntarily started adopting some of them, like Rokoko! If I haven't started using "Hannover" too yet, I will soon enough, between you and Wilhelmine's memoirs. ;)
gain the other, as some people do health, by a strict and painful regime, which few besides herself could have had patience to support, or resolution to adhere to. She was at least seven or eight hours tute-a-tcte with the King every day, during which time she was generally saying what she did not think, assenting to what she did not believe, and praising what she did not approve ; for they were seldom of the same opinion, and he too fond of his own for her ever at first to dare to controvert it (" consilii quamvis egregii quod ipse non afferret, inimicus :"— " An enemy to any counsel, however excellent, which he himself had not suggested." — Tacitus) ;'' she used to give him her opinion as jugglers do a card, by changing it imperceptibly, and making him believe he held the same with that he first pitched upon.
Wow, this is a great description. I can see why his memoirs are considered so readable.
There, there, Hervey. Celebrity break-ups are the worst, we know. Have a glass with Voltaire.
Haha.
Thank you for the write-up! I'm a little short on time and brain for comments, but I appreciated it as always. I'm constantly amazed at the free education in this salon!
Oh, I'm used to your German spellings. So used to them that I've involuntarily started adopting some of them, like Rokoko! If I haven't started using "Hannover" too yet, I will soon enough, between you and Wilhelmine's memoirs. ;)
gain the other, as some people do health, by a strict and painful regime, which few besides herself could have had patience to support, or resolution to adhere to. She was at least seven or eight hours tute-a-tcte with the King every day, during which time she was generally saying what she did not think, assenting to what she did not believe, and praising what she did not approve ; for they were seldom of the same opinion, and he too fond of his own for her ever at first to dare to controvert it (" consilii quamvis egregii quod ipse non afferret, inimicus :"— " An enemy to any counsel, however excellent, which he himself had not suggested." — Tacitus) ;'' she used to give him her opinion as jugglers do a card, by changing it imperceptibly, and making him believe he held the same with that he first pitched upon.
Wow, this is a great description. I can see why his memoirs are considered so readable.
There, there, Hervey. Celebrity break-ups are the worst, we know. Have a glass with Voltaire.
Haha.
Thank you for the write-up! I'm a little short on time and brain for comments, but I appreciated it as always. I'm constantly amazed at the free education in this salon!
Oh RIGHT, I can't believe I forgot that, it wasn't like it was that long ago *facepalm* Um, it's been kind of a long week? :) Because I remember it now, that was hilarious :D LOLOLOLOL Voltaire (again), always going after... everybody :D
Although I have to say that now having read more ofselenak's synopses on Hervey, it's even funnier that Hervey wants to know Voltaire's opinion on his poetry :D
Although I have to say that now having read more of
selenak's synopses on Hervey, it's even funnier that Hervey wants to know Voltaire's opinion on his poetry :DWow, this is amazing. Actual soap opera about opera! :D (Or at least, so Hervey says. Do you know if this is backed up by any other sources? When it's Hervey, I feel like I gotta ask.)
I like Handel a lot (though not enough to get in battles over him, lol) so I am a little more on the Princess' side, I suppose, but. Man, Hervey definitely has a way with words, anyway.
I like Handel a lot (though not enough to get in battles over him, lol) so I am a little more on the Princess' side, I suppose, but. Man, Hervey definitely has a way with words, anyway.
AW trying to tell Mina about his feelings about his approaching death, her trying to cheer him up, and him withdrawing and realizing he had to lie to her too
I noticed that :( Yeah, poor AW :(
have you been noticing Ziebura's frequent "despite several bloodlettings, so-and-so didn't get better"?
YES I HAVE. Every time I'm like... man, I am so glad I don't live in the 18th century! Medical care has its own problems these days, but at least they don't BLEED YOU.
I noticed that :( Yeah, poor AW :(
have you been noticing Ziebura's frequent "despite several bloodlettings, so-and-so didn't get better"?
YES I HAVE. Every time I'm like... man, I am so glad I don't live in the 18th century! Medical care has its own problems these days, but at least they don't BLEED YOU.
Woohoo, awesome!
And I've also been low on time these days (idk, this is likely to be a thing from now on, now that the kids are going to bed later) so I'll probably also catch up discussion on the weekend (hopefully).
I've read up to Fritz's death.
And I've also been low on time these days (idk, this is likely to be a thing from now on, now that the kids are going to bed later) so I'll probably also catch up discussion on the weekend (hopefully).
I've read up to Fritz's death.
Incidentally, now that I've learned how Hervey behaved in his other love triangle, I must say the cattiness in writing Algarotti that Lady Mary's looks don't match her mind looks downright mild in comparison, and again, that he kept absolutely mum about all of it and the Lady Mary haters like Pope and Horace Walpole never found out says a lot.
*nods* That's a good point. Go Hervey :)
*nods* That's a good point. Go Hervey :)
I second the awesomeness of your 40 page! The APs and I have travelled to the Alps today and will stay there for the next nine days, hiking and enjoying the scenery and the gorgeous food, which is great but means limited online time, so I won't be able to do any more write ups in the next few days, I guess.
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